Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

[GalacticNovie]

10 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Also, what would you suggest for /lineage/ links with /n/? Like this: https://dragcave.net/lineage/n/Purple Pony Point

(Yes, I'm proud of both name and lineage.)

Obviously, I want to link to a lineage when I post that somewhere, not a dis-ambiguation page where people have to guess and click which one I mean.

I mean... that's what the lineage link on the page would be there for, so you can quickly get to it? Also the fact that the code shows up on the page as well.

But at the same time this issue could also justify the ranking by date, so maybe you can do lineage/n/<dragonname>/1 so it shows the lineage of the first dragon named a particular name, /lineage/n/<dragonname>/2 for the second named dragon's lineage and so on. Granted, that'd still require checking the disambiguation page at some point to see where your dragon's ranked, but this was the best idea I could come up with so that /n/ links wouldn't die off if name exclusivity was abolished.

[Ruby Eyes]

Nope. Not an acceptable solution for me.

[HeatherMarie]

11 minutes ago, Dragonalassa said:

I mean... that's what the lineage link on the page would be there for, so you can quickly get to it? Also the fact that the code shows up on the page as well.

But at the same time this issue could also justify the ranking by date, so maybe you can do lineage/n/<dragonname>/1 so it shows the lineage of the first dragon named a particular name, /lineage/n/<dragonname>/2 for the second named dragon's lineage and so on. Granted, that'd still require checking the disambiguation page at some point to see where your dragon's ranked, but this was the best idea I could come up with so that /n/ links wouldn't die off if name exclusivity was abolished.

 

I'd thought about adding a simple modifier to the lineage-links like that but I guess I didn't mention it. While that would still affect if you've at some point used the *old* link in a post or whatever, it does seem like a good way to still have a lineage-link directly to that specific lineage without having to go through a disambiguation-page.

 

9 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Nope. Not an acceptable solution for me.

 

Could you explain why that wouldn't be acceptable? Is it only because it wouldn't help the issue of old-linking as mentioned above, or is there some other reason?

 

(In general, not signaling out anyone but in general it's so much more helpful to explain why you feel something wouldn't work or would be too inconvenient, rather than just dismissing the idea with no reason.)

Edited March 22, 2021 by HeatherMarie

[Sextonator]

I honestly don’t see there being a compromise. The /n/ link compromises have been shot down. Can’t name wipe because users might return.

 

A lot of the reasons that I can remember that are for name exclusivity feel shallow and superficial, but there are a lot situations where abolishing name exclusivity can benefit everyone, like cases where names are lost to dead dragons, or even cases where a user goes inactive. If we got rid of name exclusivity none of that would matter.

 

It might be a headache at some point but honestly, at this point how many people are coming up with the more elaborate names like “Princess Marcia Megamind the Third”? And sure, there might end up being thousands of Bobs or Johns, but how could that possibly affect anyone? The game is all about independence, why should my independence to name my dragons hinge on how other people name their dragons?

[GalacticNovie]

9 minutes ago, Sextonator said:

The /n/ link compromises have been shot down.

They haven't been shot down, they've either been dismissed with no reasoning or have been outright ignored. It's like getting a blank reject on a description. Doesn't leave much to the imagination as to the true reason why they're being turned down.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Dragonalassa

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I prefer exclusive names and I think the /n/ compromise is perfectly reasonable. Show the first dragon to be named that way, plus any dragons on your scroll with that name, then an option to continue to a list of the rest.

 

If you want to ensure people are going to the right /n/--well, first it's probably easier to just send them the code. If it's YOU wanting to get to the right dragon with /n/, the fact that it would show you any of your dragons would that name renders that point moot. Yes there'd be a single extra click, but the point is "if this happens what are compromises I could live with," which I think this falls under. Simpler still, just check that you're the first to pick a name and your /n/ links also put you at the start of the page, very similar to what we get now.

 

Again I also want names to stay exclusive, but you can state that intent AND also give feedback on how any middle ground could work if things don't go the way we desire.

[PokeCat]

I just felt like I'd pop in here and share my two cents. I like name exclusivity, but I think getting rid of it would be totally fine as well. At the end of the day, I just want to collect my cute little dragons and enjoy myself. Whatever is chosen I'm totally fine with. I think a lot of people have some good ideas on how to fix problems with the /n link thing, and I think if the idea is to take the exclusivity away, we should focus on constructive critism to get the best way to have the idea work. If we all work together on figuring it out, I'm sure we could come to a good compromise that everyone is happy with.

[schenanigans]

Can just change view/n/InsertNameHere to view/n/InsertNameHere/code for specific dragons

Edited March 22, 2021 by schenanigans

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Moving on from the /n/ thing, I still think aliases are a perfect compromise.

 

My original suggestion was that you'd have to have the code or actual name showing. But what if unnamed dragons, on both scroll and lineage, ONLY showed the alias?

 

Here's the original. He's the only one who wouldn't be bracketed.

 

But you, your mom, and your second cousin could all have

 

And for those of us who want both a name AND an alias, we could have our cake and eat it, too. I could have Fireblighted [STOP BREEDING TO LALA SHES A 2G] for example, or Fireblighted [The First] to remind me he's CB without needing to actually meddle with his name.

 

This lets the current /n/ system work, makes lineages still easy to read if you're working with non-aliased names (for aliases, a show code toggle could fix the rest), lets people who like exclusive names keep theirs AND lets everyone else have all those names, too, all for the price of a few tiny and frankly handsome brackets. 

 

I really can't imagine a better win/win. Again, even if it's not perfect (though I think it's pretty close??), we're looking at reasonable compromises here. I didn't think there WAS a compromise between unique or non, but this is pretty smack perfect.

 

 

@schenanigansif you know the code, it's kinda redundant to do /n/code instead of just /code. The whole use and joy of /n/ is it's much easier to remember a name like Noodleberry than to remember Noodleberry's code is (insert random keysmash here)

Edited March 22, 2021 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

5 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

@schenanigansif you know the code, it's kinda redundant to do /n/code instead of just /code. The whole use and joy of /n/ is it's much easier to remember a name like Noodleberry than to remember Noodleberry's code is (insert random keysmash here)

 

This is very true - I always use /n/ because I know their names. And in cases where I'm not sure, the but I can remember usually gets me there in the end. Remembering almost 10k codes would be MUCH harder,.

 

@angelicdragonpuppy it's yTbSg, sine you mention it (I HAD to look ! and yes, who on earth would remember that ?)

[schenanigans]

I'm not at all a fan of the alias idea. It doesn't feel like a compromise at all and more like what HeatherMarie said - public/viewable tags (in which case I would much rather they be private), or otherwise feels like a system just shoved at the people in favor of removing exclusivity to get them to shut up. We already have one identification system, the code, and a secondary identification system, the name. Having yet another via aliases just seems a lot like overkill? It would just be what names are without exclusivity but giving people a tiny extra "here's a no parenthesis on the name!" For the people with the OG name to feel special lmao. Not to mention the people who name their dragons because they don't like the aesthetic of codes or the parenthesis in their lineages. But they have to get over it because other people insist on name exclusivity and it's the ONLY way for them to get a name they want?

 

It literally is, as you said, giving two benefits to the people who support name exclusivity - having your cake and eating it too. Not very fair to the people who don't support name exclusivity IMO.

 

I totally didn't think of "why even use view/n/ if you have the code" though. I suppose that's why it hasn't been suggested yet 😂 longer work day than I thought

 

Edited to add: Aliases have been brought up multiple times already and I DONT see it as an alternative to name exclusivity. I would actually suggest it become it's own thread if this is something people actually want. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by schenanigans

[Sextonator]

But how would aliases work outside of lineage views? Could I search for a dragon I intend to breed to another by it’s alias? Would I see the alias from my homepage, or would I just see their name/code?

 

This thread has been going in circles for 26 pages. If it an acceptable compromise was going to pop up it would have. At this point it’d be easier to vote on whether we go all in and just remove it, or we keep it and have to suffer until the inevitable point of max capacity(I could not think of a better word).

 

I see ending name exclusivity as a net positive, and the one negative that I can remember and can address, I suggest utilizing either a spread sheet with names and codes, or folders of browser bookmarks.

[Falorni]

I'm not personally a fan of the aliases, it kind of feels like, as Schen said, just another unneeded mechanic thrown at us to get us to stop talking about name exclusivity.  I understand peoples' gripes with the view/n/ system potentially not working without name exclusivity and am all for finding a solution for that that'd work for everyone... however, I just can't grasp the argument that name exclusivity going away would somehow make our dragons inherently less special or unique?  My dragons are special and unique because they're mine, on my scroll, and I'd really like someone who feels unique names are an essential part to their dragons to elaborate further because I do genuinely want to understand where y'all are coming from.

[Paradisiske]

Just get rid of view/n/

 

Problem solved. Codes are already exclusive. There is no objective reason for names to be exclusive. Imo there is an objective reason for names not to be exclusive which boils down to it is overcomplicating things immensely by having it. 

 

As for name wiping from inactivity I was gone for over a year. Wouldn't be too pleased to come back and see all my hard work gone. However name wiping shouldn't even be a thing and wouldn't even need to be discussed if name exclusivity was not a thing. 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Sextonator Aliases would be searchable yes, they'd show in brackets under the names.

 

@CellyBeando NOT get rid of /n/. Remembering codes IS HARD. /n/ is exceedingly easier to use. Throwing /n/ completely into the abyss is NOT problem solved, not by a mile!

 

 

At any rate, people have given their reasons for wanting unique names before, repeatedly, and often; I'm not going to rehash them for the tenth time. I have seen some compromises that are both common sense (letting dead dragons be unnamed; letting names on scrolls inactive for over two years be claimed--yes, some people come back from longer, but some people never come back, there has to be a compromise somewhere to reclaim those). Allowing different capitalization is weird but... fine. I still really like aliases and would use them irregardless of names being unique or not. I think compromises can keep being discussed if people stop giving undetailed "this will never work" responses on the one side and stop not very subtly suggesting people are greedy puppy kicking name hoggers on the other. However if people want a vote on the matter right now as-is, bare bones, I'm still for keeping names exclusive.

 

(I like how we all get into this like suggestions are actually implemented into the game more than once every five years haha. See y'all in 2025 one way or another <:') 

 

At any rate remember this is a discussion about GOOFY DRAGON NAMES, be chill and kind y'all)

Edited March 22, 2021 by angelicdragonpuppy

[GalacticNovie]

8 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

Just get rid of view/n/

Well... I'm highly against exclusivity but I still use view/n/ links a lot. That's why I tried my hardest to come up with a solution on that front because I - and many others - found that functionality useful.

[Falorni]

1 minute ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I think compromises can keep being discussed if people stop giving undetailed "this will never work" responses on the one side and stop not very subtly suggesting people are greedy puppy kicking name hoggers on the other.

This exactly.  Messages like "Nope, I don't like that"/"That wouldn't be fine by me" AND messages guilting people for enjoying name exclusivity bring absolutely nothing to the table.

 

Although I do wish more people had the guts to straight up say "I like name exclusivity because I like having names no one else can have", like, genuinely!  That isn't an inherently bad or selfish thing and ppl shouldn't need to try and jump through hoops to excuse it (not saying this applies to anyone here specifically!)

[Paradisiske]

Just now, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@Sextonator Aliases would be searchable yes, they'd show in brackets under the names.

 

@CellyBeando NOT get rid of /n/. Remembering codes IS HARD. /n/ is exceedingly easier to use. Throwing /n/ completely into the abyss is NOT problem solved, not by a mile!

 

 

At any rate, people have given their reasons for wanting unique names before, repeatedly, and often; I'm not going to rehash them for the tenth time. I have seen some compromises that are both common sense (letting dead dragons be unnamed; letting names on scrolls inactive for over two years be claimed--yes, some people come back from longer, but some people never come back, there has to be a compromise somewhere to reclaim those). Allowing different capitalization is weird but... fine. I still really like aliases and would use them irregardless of names being unique or not. I think compromises can keep being discussed if people stop giving undetailed "this will never work" responses on the one side and stop not very subtly suggesting people are greedy puppy kicking name hoggers on the other. However if people want a vote on the matter right now as-is, bare bones, I'm still for keeping names exclusive.

 

(I like how we all get into this like suggestions are actually implemented into the game more than once every five years haha. See y'all in 2025 one way or another <:') )

 

Remembering thousands of names is hard too. At some point people are going to reach their limit of individual dragon names that they can remember. Its why groups are so helpful. You can sort and organize specific dragons into specific groups so then you do not need to worry about memorizing codes or names.

 

 

What is there to reclaim from inactive scrolls? Not your scroll, not your dragons, not your codes and not your names. You are not entitled to anything that another user has on their own scroll. If name exclusivity was gone then people would not fret over inactive scrolls. 

 

You are right that both sides of this conflict will never agree. However most if not all of the compromises I have seen in this thread are unnecessary, and more trouble than they are worth especially coding wise. So in all honesty there are only two outcomes that I see happening.

 

One: Nothing changes.

 

Two: View/n/ is removed and name exclusivity is gone. People will either adapt, rejoice or complain/leave. 

[GalacticNovie]

3 minutes ago, Falorni said:

Although I do wish more people had the guts to straight up say "I like name exclusivity because I like having names no one else can have", like, genuinely!  That isn't an inherently bad or selfish thing and ppl shouldn't need to try and jump through hoops to excuse it (not saying this applies to anyone here specifically!)

It is inherently selfish by dictionary definition ("concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure"), but it's still a reasoning. And yeah, I just wish more people would be upfront about it, people dancing around saying it are what's truly causing my patience to wear thin.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Dragonalassa

[Tini]

45 minutes ago, schenanigans said:

I'm not at all a fan of the alias idea. It doesn't feel like a compromise at all and more like what HeatherMarie said - public/viewable tags

Yeah that's my stance on it. If their use is: some people get to use it as a notepad and others have to use it as the name, its kinda. Weird? At the very least. It seems like all it really does is double the length of a name. (The lyrical mockup really shows this imo, and I absolutely would not use it in that way)

Edited March 22, 2021 by Tini

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@FalorniI will confess I do kind of like the thrill of finding a nice new name. It's not "muahahaha I have the name Sora NO ONE ELSE CAN HAZ," it's thinking of things like Noodlebelly and Fireblighted and feeling cool about that. Yes, I could keep checking if names are unique even after the fact, but I know myself and I know I'd be lazy and just go with the flow and not bother if it happened. I also like trading "wow, nice names!" interactions with others and if anyone can copy any name others might have racked their brains to think of, it feels less meaningful.

 

Beyond that though, /n/ and inbreed checking ease are important to me. There are workarounds--the whole /n/ list, and showing codes for inbreeding checking or going off site--but every such compromise is additional work compared to the current system. It's livable of course, but it's like driving another two miles to work every day. CAN do and being ENTHUSED about do are different things.

 

edit: bad typo!

 

@Dragonalassa but isn't the flip side of that that people who want to use those names, despite the objections of others who like unique names, are ALSO concerned with their own personal pleasure? Yes, people can use names multiple times, so on paper it looks like a net positive... but really it'd be whatever % likes naming whatever they please being happy versus whatever % who preferred having those names be unique being unhappy. It's not a net gain across the board despite how it looks. I've supported ending exclusivity on many fronts (reintroducing CB Holidays despite having them all + a 2g Holly at the time, still supporting easier CB Prize obtaining despite having many 2gs... and now a CB!). But I don't feel the same arguments I made there are fully applicable here. At the end of the day, Timmy who wants to have the only name Scorch and Tommy who wants to also have the name Scorch are both also competing personal interests. Tommy might benefit a few others who want Scorch, but likewise Timmy might benefit a few others who like having a baby from the OG Scorch.

Edited March 22, 2021 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Falorni]

5 minutes ago, Dragonalassa said:

It is inherently selfish by dictionary definition ("concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure"), but it's still a reasoning. And yeah, I just wish more people would be upfront about it, people dancing around saying it are what's truly causing my patience to wear thin.

Not any more selfish than "I wish name exclusivity wasn't a thing because I want access to these names" IMO, but as I said neither is inherently better or worse than the other   I want name exclusivity to go the way of the dinos because I want more name options for my dragons, others feel unique names are a key element to their dragons which I still really wanna hear someone elaborate on; like legit I don't understand WHY u feel this way but I want to bc that could help further the conversation - but ultimately we're all vibing trying to enjoy our funky dragon pixels innit

 

Edit//
"if anyone can copy any name others might have racked their brains to think of, it feels less meaningful." See, while I disagree that I can at least easily understand and sympathize with!  TY for elaborating :--)  I do agree with the thrill of finding a cool name though (I managed to nab the name for the Resident Evil vampire lady) even though no name exclusivity wouldn't personally change my enjoyment of that.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Falorni

[schenanigans]

2 minutes ago, Tini said:

Yeah that's my stance on it. If their use is: some people get to use it as a notepad and others have to use it as the name, its kinda. Weird? At the very least. It seems like all it really does is double the length of a name. (The lyrical mockup really shows this imo, and I absolutely would not use it in that way)

 

Can you imagine all the people angry as a wasp nest because of the random new (DONT BREED TO XYZ) or (3G SAlt Male Desipis Stair) in their lineages? Lol 

[Tini]

3 minutes ago, schenanigans said:

 

Can you imagine all the people angry as a wasp nest because of the random new (DONT BREED TO XYZ) or (3G SAlt Male Desipis Stair) in their lineages? Lol 

'nice names AND no aliases only thx' on hub

 

Actually I just realized this would result in dragon names that are FOUR lines high and just....please no. I'm begging for that not to be a thing.

In my minds eye I can just see a 5g where every dragon's name is four lines tall and-please no.

  

5 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I will confess I do kind of like the thrill of finding a nice new name. It's not "muahahaha I have the name Sora NO ONE ELSE CAN HAZ," it's thinking of things like Noodlebelly and Fireblighted and feeling cool about that.

Oh I feel this too, but, like, the momentary high I get from that accomplishment isn't worth the rest of it for me. Like, the day I nabbed a whole series canon names I was losing my mind, but now I just feel bad I have them and nobody else can.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Tini

[GalacticNovie]

  

11 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

if anyone can copy any name others might have racked their brains to think of, it feels less meaningful.

Again, if creativity is part of the reasoning, then what's wrong with descriptions? They are explicitly stated to be used to personalize your dragon, and they're really not that hard to get approved if you proofread your descriptions and keep them in line with DC's setting.

 

10 minutes ago, Falorni said:

Not any more selfish than "I wish name exclusivity wasn't a thing because I want access to these names" IMO

Well, the way I see it, exclusivity only benefits one person, but letting anyone name their dragons whatever they want could potentially benefit a lot of people. Like you said, we all just wanna have fun with our pixel lizards, and like I said before:

23 hours ago, Dragonalassa said:

I have a lot of dragons named after a game that has a lot of meaning to me and I honestly feel guilty sometimes that I'm possibly keeping others from having those names - after all, that game could mean a lot to them too, what makes me so special?

 

I just have an issue with the fact that name exclusivity is a mechanic that, as it's set up, is designed to keep others from having fun with their pixel lizards only because someone else got to it first.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Dragonalassa