Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

[Babbage]

I would like name exclusivity to end. It limits creativity and is just downright frustrating. Being able to have multiple dragons of the same name on your scroll sounds really useful too, especially for lyrical lineages.

The only downsides here are that people might try to imitate famous dragons. I think it's a fair tradeoff for as much as it's going to give to the community, though. You don't need to memorize codes, but someone should probably make a list of non-Thuwed famous codes that don't have notations to verify them on their pages in the event that this change goes through.

I have no comment on /n/ since I don't copy page links from there.

[Infinis]

There are already fakes of famous dragons, though, so exclusivity already isn’t stopping that. o:

[Sextonator]

I would love it if name exclusivity wasn't a thing. It's been something I've found disappointing since I started playing 12 years ago and couldn't name a dragon after myself(with my real name). And yes, that really is something I remember every time this is brought up.

 

And as someone who's rather uncreative when it comes to naming dragons, not having to wrack my brain to come up with a pretty name that isn't taken for a dragon would be nice, and would renew my interest in naming all my unnamed dragons.

[Sundew]

I would prefer to keep exclusivity per-scroll like Odeen suggested, but am ok with having unlimited duplicates site-wide. It's unfair and unfortunate for example that only one person is able to really do a lineage of any given song.. anyone who would like to have the same song on their scroll is stuck mangling the names. I do enjoy having some one-word names that feel special for their uniqueness but I don't think keeping that is worth the exclusivity, especially since exclusivity is only something that gets more frustrating.

 

I don't see creativity as a problem here; unique names aren't inherently better or more creative and also don't really.. do anything for the site? That feels like enforcing a priority for naming that not everyone shares

 

edit: upon reading more replies here I am in support of no exclusivity overall, including allowing duplicate names on the same scroll 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Sundew

[Torkie10]

I'd be hesitant to change anything that interacts with lineage displays and links without careful consideration first. It might be more complicated to change in the back end (with how the site is coded to display lineages, parentage, names on scrolls, etc.) than we think. Pros and cons aside, I think it best to not potentially break key components of the site (especially around the Holidays—doubly so since a lot of people are coming out of hiatus now) wantonly without at least an appreciation/understanding on whether the coding aspect is reasonable.

 

As for what users get out of it…

 

I can confirm that I have had to reserve names for future lyrical lineage projects. It's something you kind of have to do up front if you're committed to it. When I run into problems, I start using spaces. Exclusivity on names mostly results in spaces       between     words    and oO Naming Beauty Marks Oo and such, in my experience… it doesn't exactly necessarily inspire creativity by default. Sometimes, someone can feel creative… but on a large scale, it's simpler for most to take the path of least resistance if they are really set on something specific.

 

I personally hold no support for anything that automatically removes names on inactive scrolls, though. People do come out of hiatus, even after years, and renaming thousands of dragons would be a turn-off and something that would probably be vocally resented by those affected or feeling pressured to avoid being affected when they aren't currently in a good place to remain active.

[Tetelestai]

Support 100%. I've run into issues with names with lyrics myself, and I don't like having to use extra spaces or 0 in place of 'o'.

[Malcorium]

support because i need star names in my life and on my scroll. thank u

[Wymsical]

1 hour ago, Torkie10 said:

I'd be hesitant to change anything that interacts with lineage displays and links without careful consideration first. It might be more complicated to change in the back end (with how the site is coded to display lineages, parentage, names on scrolls, etc.) than we think. Pros and cons aside, I think it best to not potentially break key components of the site (especially around the Holidays—doubly so since a lot of people are coming out of hiatus now) wantonly without at least an appreciation/understanding on whether the coding aspect is reasonable.

Speaking as someone who does programming and futzes around with databases, this is most likely a non-issue for this suggestion. Something like the storage (and subsequent calling/display of in a webpage) of a dragon name is not anything super complicated. This includes attributes like whether or not they're unique. Yeah, nobody really knows what DC's backend is like outside of TJ, but anyone who has done this kind of stuff has a general idea of how this stuff works and how to handle it. The only real issue is dealing with the /view/n/ page, as if dragon names were no longer unique it would need to be changed, but that's already been covered by several suggestions within this very thread.

[random_dragon_collector]

I just stick Random in front of anything, and I get the name.   But I understand that not everyone wants to do that, especially for lyrical lineages, etc.  Also, I collect z-codes, and I've rarely run into the problem once z' is in front of the name.  Come join the z-thread!

Edited October 1, 2020 by random_dragon_collector

[jerzeeshadow]

I support the idea of "freeing" the names from unused scrolls, especially if the dragons haven't been used in lineages.  👍

[Tini]

I really don't get the creativity angle. If I wanna name a dragon Sir Snuggles but its taken, I can either give up, or spend 20 minutes trying to find a variant that's not taken and then give up. That's not creativity, that's shoving random stuff into a name hoping someone else hasn't tried it first. People who name most of their dragon horde tend to just base the name off the code or the lineage, that's not going to change with removing exclusivity. 

[Paintra]

Something that hasn't really been brought up here- the name exclusivity aspect is a turnoff for a lot of players. I've talked to many people who don't play the game as often as they'd like to because not being able to name their dragons without jumping through hoops is frustrating. Perhaps not so much the active players talking in this thread, but this is something I've seen come up many times on the topic of DC, even in other communities.

 

Personally, I own a lot of dragons with the names of items and enemies from the game Dead Cells. I don't even like hoarding them, frankly! But I know at some point in the future, I might want to make a lineage with them, or name a dragon after a character, and because of it, the names are taken for everyone. I don't like that.

 

I know a lot of other people tend to "hoard" names they might use in the future, too. I have to, for some of my lyrical lineage projects! But I sure wish I didn't! I don't like knowing that someone out there might want to make a lineage of the same song, or name a dragon after the same character, and they're just out of luck forever.

 

I really, really hope this change is considered, especially since names are no longer getting wiped on old accounts. I think exclusive names are a detriment to a game with a growing community, especially one that allows us to collect such a vast amount of dragons to name. There are already some great responses in this thread on how to fix potential issues that might come up with removing name exclusivity, but I truly, truly think the benefits outweigh the headache of the system we have now.

[Infinis]

3 hours ago, Torkie10 said:

I'd be hesitant to change anything that interacts with lineage displays and links without careful consideration first.

I think for lineages this would be a net positive, because folks won't be functionally required to include extra spaces/letters or use surnames, won't need to include a surname, won't need to replace letters with numbers, etc unless someone really wants to. 🙂 If I could get rid of the spaces in some of my names, the text wrapping would end up nicer looking, since at least two I know of end up with ONE LETTER on the second line. ;__; c u r s e d

[Syiren]

I completely support this. Several times I've tried to name my dragons something clever or after a character I'm a fan of and I have to "get creative" because the name is taken. Especially when it comes to Final Fantasy names because I know even some spriter artists who are fans of the same series I am and when I do pick a name I'm always questioning whether I should because a Spriter may want it for one of theirs. Perfect example, Birdz' C l o u d S t r i f e Radiant Angel. I'm thrilled that there are others who love FF7, but I had to add CB at the end of my Nhiostrife whose name is also Cloud Strife in a sense because we're both FF7 fans.

 

Ditto for you, @Infinis as I believe you're the owner of S e p h i r o t h? The other half to the SA Radiant Angel set? I have a CB Silver I named General Sephiroth CB to avoid the name wall. But even then I feel happy, yet guilty for taking those names.

 

Everyone deserves to name their dragons what they want (within reason and guidelines of the cite rules) and it's always a let down when said names are taken in every way you try to get around it and make it unique. 

[oxoniensis]

I would love to see this implemented, with names only unique within a scroll. But I’d beg for the idea of inactive scrolls having their names wiped to be blocked. Life is busy, and I had a couple of years when I wasn’t around on DC at all, and if I’d come back to find all my dragon names wiped I would have given up and walked away. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by shhhhsleeping

[Fuzzbucket]

40 minutes ago, Infinis said:

I think for lineages this would be a net positive, because folks won't be functionally required to include extra spaces/letters or use surnames, won't need to include a surname, won't need to replace letters with numbers, etc unless someone really wants to. 🙂 If I could get rid of the spaces in some of my names, the text wrapping would end up nicer looking, since at least two I know of end up with ONE LETTER on the second line. ;__; c u r s e d

 

I think it would be a net negative; I would have no idea whether that pillow called Snuggles in my line is the one I wanted it to be (from a trusted player who won't kill it and spoil the line later on) or from someone unknown who will (perfectly legitimately) do just that. And if people don't show their scroll name - I will have no way to tell.

 

No support.

[Nine]

I'd like for exclusively to end too. I've been waiting 11 years to get a specific name; empires have risen and fallen in the meantime.

 

However it's not entirely one-sided. I also have many names I'm sure others would love to have. I think another old name hoarder recently gave up "Box" which I took, though I get nothing from knowing nobody else on the website will ever have a dragon named Box. People should be in awe of me because I am magnificent, not because I now have Box the dragon. Exclusivity applies value to things that are actually rather valueless. 

 

Don't want "unique to scroll" names though-- if I want to name 999 of my dragons the same thing then why not. Some people run dragon cults where they all have the same name, don't judge.

[Dohaerys]

Yes please, I would love to see non exclusive names.

There could be issues discerning whether a dragon is inbred or not (if all its parents have the same names) so I think changing the view page to include the code somewhere would be nice.

[Keileon]

I'm neutral on this idea.

 

However-- if exclusivity is removed, I see no reason to leave names as one-per-scroll as has been suggested in here. There's no real reason to do it aside from the player finding their dragons more easily, and frankly that's on them. (And, contrary to apparent popular belief, Flight Rising does not have that restriction either. I've named dragons in the same nest the same thing before.)

[Infinis]

Just now, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I think it would be a net negative; I would have no idea whether that pillow called Snuggles in my line is the one I wanted it to be (from a trusted player who won't kill it and spoil the line later on) or from someone unknown who will (perfectly legitimately) do just that. And if people don't show their scroll name - I will have no way to tell.

 

No support.

Unless I've completely misunderstood your point, this is true even with name exclusivity as it is now, though. Unless you actively source eggs directly from players you deem trustworthy enough and then meticulously document that information to refer back to in the event they hide their scroll name, you're always taking a risk of forgetting who owns the parents of your dragon if they hide their scrollname. That the names are unique isn't really the issue here; the issue here is that there is always an inherent risk you take when you accept dragons bred by someone else into your lineages, because even if you did document that information and trust them wholeheartedly, they are well within rights to kill that dragon's parent(s) anyway. You probably wouldn't trust that person anymore, but they don't have to feel guilty about killing the dragon(s), either. 

 

The only way to remove this risk is to 100% self-breed everything, which is true both with and without name exclusivity.

[Serotina]

I would enjoy having name exclusivity removed, that would be super neat. While most of my dragons follow weird naming conventions, and thus don't run into "this name is taken," I would love to have the ability to name my dragons "Tom" or "Bob." I'd also be more likely to give my dragons normal names without exclusivity.

 

However, I do NOT support any type of "name wiping" due to inactivity. Even if name exclusivity is left intact, I would not like that being implemented. There are lots of people who take hiatuses. I took one for several months, and coming back to a scroll with unnamed dragons would have made me quit completely, instead of coming back.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, Infinis said:

Unless I've completely misunderstood your point, this is true even with name exclusivity as it is now, though. Unless you actively source eggs directly from players you deem trustworthy enough and then meticulously document that information to refer back to in the event they hide their scroll name, you're always taking a risk of forgetting who owns the parents of your dragon if they hide their scrollname. That the names are unique isn't really the issue here; the issue here is that there is always an inherent risk you take when you accept dragons bred by someone else into your lineages, because even if you did document that information and trust them wholeheartedly, they are well within rights to kill that dragon's parent(s) anyway. You probably wouldn't trust that person anymore, but they don't have to feel guilty about killing the dragon(s), either. 

 

The only way to remove this risk is to 100% self-breed everything, which is true both with and without name exclusivity.

 

You haven't misunderstood me, no. Yes I take a BIT of a risk, but as a general rule, if I am building a line using dragons from the scrolls of others, I almost always I get them from the scrolls of people I trust. Sometimes that will include a dragon from the AP that was bred by one of those people. If I find an egg from - say - Albert and Victoria - and I know who owns those two, I can add it in. If two people - or more - own dragons by those names, I can't be sure.....

[Firebirdwyvern]

Kala approves, because even though you think the name has never been used before...it is still a no go? Like, wha? Somehow I feel that part of the problem is if certain parts go to a name already in use, then you can't use it? But this is a pain in the butt and, as people have stated before, it does limit creativity. Surnames are okay if they make sense, but a lot of them don't because they are meant to just be a means to let the person name the dragon what they want to name them.

 

It stinks when you think you have a neat name that somebody else probably has not used and it gets rejected for already being in use?

[DragonLady86]

23 minutes ago, Firebirdwyvern said:

Kala approves, because even though you think the name has never been used before...it is still a no go? Like, wha? Somehow I feel that part of the problem is if certain parts go to a name already in use, then you can't use it? But this is a pain in the butt and, as people have stated before, it does limit creativity. Surnames are okay if they make sense, but a lot of them don't because they are meant to just be a means to let the person name the dragon what they want to name them.

 

It stinks when you think you have a neat name that somebody else probably has not used and it gets rejected for already being in use?

Try searching/n/ name. You shouldn't see the message if it hasn't been used or even if its similar. Though any character that isnt supported such ad a period will also give the message about ink disappearing.

[olympe]

13 hours ago, ThatOneBab said:

I would like name exclusivity to end. It limits creativity and is just downright frustrating. Being able to have multiple dragons of the same name on your scroll sounds really useful too, especially for lyrical lineages.

The only downsides here are that people might try to imitate famous dragons. I think it's a fair tradeoff for as much as it's going to give to the community, though. You don't need to memorize codes, but someone should probably make a list of non-Thuwed famous codes that don't have notations to verify them on their pages in the event that this change goes through.

I have no comment on /n/ since I don't copy page links from there.

Actually, exclusivitiy does the opposite of limiting creativity, it spurs it. My daugther once wanted to name a dragon 'Blackbird'. Not surprisingly, the name was taken. So, she resorted to "Blackbyrd", which, for some reason, was still available. Creative spelling, spacing, hyphenating, apostrophing, prefixes and suffixes are always an option. You just have to get creative in order to succeed.