Zombie Dragons... never gonna have one

[Naruhina_94]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

Exactly. Killing is bad. So is necromancy. And undead dragons are the result of necromancy (eg. failed reviving) and, well, killing. You need a corpse to revive. You cannot use actions on dragons you don't own. If Killing and zombifying your own dragons doesn't work for you, skip zombies. It's your choice what you're going to do.

 

Which could be an alternative to get a dead dragon in your scroll that doesn't include the player himself going on a killing spree?

I would say: finding a corpse randomly, experimenting with a living dragon, a cure that went wrong, taming wild zombies... do you have any other suggestion that doesn't include murder and betray of the creatures you're rasing? If all the examples I listed are too limited / hard to implement, then leaving the death of the dragon unexplained is the easiest route.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Naruhina_94

[HeatherMarie]

15 minutes ago, Naruhina_94 said:

 

Which could be an alternative to get a dead dragon in your scroll that doesn't include the player himself going on a killing spree?

I would say: finding a corpse randomly, experimenting with a living dragon, a cure that went wrong, taming wild zombies... do you have any other suggestion that doesn't include murder and betray of the creatures you're rasing? If all the examples I listed are too limited / hard to implement, then leaving the death of the dragon unexplained is the easiest route.

 

I just don't think they are *needed*, or necessary, or 'better' than what we have now. If the issue is 'murder' and 'betrayal', change the text. Simple. No one but TJ knows how hard each of these things is to implement, but they definitely seem completely unnecessary and complicated. And it's still dealing with dying/dead dragons, you can't get around that. Even finding a random corpse still comes with *knowingly* using a used-to-be-living creature as a rather gruesome experiment. I honestly don't understand how any of those new mechanics are 'better' in terms of not wanting to be bad/mean to dragons. So yes, simply changing the text is, imo, easier and makes much more sense.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

Exactly. Killing is bad. So is necromancy. And undead dragons are the result of necromancy (eg. failed reviving) and, well, killing. You need a corpse to revive. You cannot use actions on dragons you don't own. If Killing and zombifying your own dragons doesn't work for you, skip zombies. It's your choice what you're going to do.

 

53 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I just don't think they are *needed*, or necessary, or 'better' than what we have now. If the issue is 'murder' and 'betrayal', change the text. Simple. No one but TJ knows how hard each of these things is to implement, but they definitely seem completely unnecessary and complicated. And it's still dealing with dying/dead dragons, you can't get around that. Even finding a random corpse still comes with *knowingly* using a used-to-be-living creature as a rather gruesome experiment. I honestly don't understand how any of those new mechanics are 'better' in terms of not wanting to be bad/mean to dragons. So yes, simply changing the text is, imo, easier and makes much more sense.

 

Exactly. There's no need to change all the mechanics just because some players are upset by the idea of killing dragons. I am also totally not in favour of doing anything with a dragon that is not on your own scroll - and that includes ones from the wild and from the graveyard. That would be a MASSIVE change to game mechanics.

 

Creating zombies means killing (though you CAN always let hatchies die on their own.) If you can't bear to do that - then do without zombies. After all - if creating them is so distasteful then you probably don't want one anyway.OK change the text, if that would help - but will still have to kill, even if it says something sweet and fluffy when you do.

 

"Your dragon lies down and thanks you for trying to make it immortal."   I Don't Think So.  

Edited September 29, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

17 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Creating zombies means killing (though you CAN always let hatchies die on their own.) If you can't bear to do that - then do without zombies. After all - if creating them is so distasteful then you probably don't want one anyway.

That's exactly how I feel about this. FYI, I have zero zombies. I don't intend to change that.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have lots - and if I could change that to have lots MORE, I would. I want a complete set

[Naruhina_94]

36 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Creating zombies means killing

 

Creating zombies requires a dead dragon. A zombie isn't usually made with a murderded being (unlike vampires who bite victims willingly), on the opposite, it's usually a spreading deadly virus that nobody can control and brings them back to undead living state. I repeat, the killing/murder part is the totally unnecessary issue here. It makes very little sense for a dragonkeeper to kill one of his/her creature on purpose after everything he/she went trought from stealing the egg and raising it (unless he's an evil sociopath, I guess?)

The dragon needs to die, not to be killed by me. You want to limit it to only dragons previously alive on your scroll? Fine. I just don't think there is need for a description of me killing them or letting them die a painful death. 

 

Quote

No one but TJ knows how hard each of these things is to implement, but they definitely seem completely unnecessary and complicated. 

Then let him decide I guess. I just gave merely suggestion. If you have better ideas on how to implement the same concept feel free to express them.

 

Quote

And it's still dealing with dying/dead dragons, you can't get around that

Nobody is trying to do that. Never I said they should remain alive. I don't get this sentence, sorry.

 

The game doesn't benefit either from the player being the one who is killing the dragon on purpose. It doesn't make much sense how a sentient creature doesn't care if you try to kill it and it avoids your blade by an inch. Maybe he didn't notice you were trying to murder him? Or does he instantly forgives you? Oh you silly human, dont murder me plz 

 

I'm just saying that I agree there is no need to further describe how a dragon dies (illness, experiment, bad treatment), but that also includes the description of actual malicious killing from his owner. I would just leave the writing: the dragon dies. Period. A description of murder is still a description and as such is forced as any other possible explanation on the death of the dragon.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Naruhina_94

[Fuzzbucket]

4 minutes ago, Naruhina_94 said:

 

Creating zombies requires a dead dragon. A zombie isn't usually made with a murderded being (unlike vampires who bite victims willingly), on the opposite, it's usually a spreading deadly virus that nobody can control and brings them back to undead living state. I repeat, the killing/murder part is the totally unnecessary issue here. It makes very little sense for a dragonkeeper to kill one of his/her creature on purpose after everything he/she went trought from stealing the egg and raising it (unless he's an evil sociopath, I guess?)

Then let him decide I guess. I just gave merely suggestion. If you have better ideas on how to implement the same concept feel free to express them.

 

I don't see the need to implement any concept, though am open to changing the text. To get a dead dragon - you have to kill it. Calling it "giving it a nice little drink of poison in case it is suffering" is still killing. And who decides it's suffering ? YOU do, so that you have an excuse to - um - kill it/make it be dead/whatever. You will still be doing something to turn a living dragon into a dead dragon, whatever way you dress it up. Giving a dragon a virus to kill it is exactly as murderous as stabbing it. This is just a way to try and make people feel OK about - killing - by calling it something else.

 

4 minutes ago, Naruhina_94 said:

 

The game doesn't benefit either from the player being the one who is killing the dragon on purpose. It doesn't make much sense how a sentient creature doesn't care if you try to kill it and it avoids your blade by an inch. Maybe he didn't notice you were trying to murder him? Or does he instantly forgives you? Oh you silly human, dont murder me plz 

 

I'm just saying that I agree there is no need to further describe how a dragon dies (illness, experiment, bad treatment), but that also includes the description of actual malicious killing from his owner. I would just leaves the writing: the dragon dies. Period. A description of murder is still a description and as such is forced as any other possible explanation on the death of the dragon.

 

No-one said the dragon feels good about people murdering him. But that is what has to happen to get a zombie. Players will still have to use the kill action, and however the text is changed, they will have to accept that They Killed A Dragon On Their Scroll.

 

If you don't do it on purpose - how else do you expect it to happen ? If you want a totally "virtuous" version, what you would HAVE to do would be to change the mechanics so that a dragon could die spontaneously, with no intervention by you, from a virus. Do YOU want any dragon on your scroll to be at risk of death without warning, just for it to happen all by itself ?  I know I don't. But unless we accept that we have to do the killing, the only guilt-free way to get a zombie would be to allow that possibility into the mechanics. 

 

PLEASE NO; this is NOT a suggestion.

[Keileon]

14 minutes ago, Naruhina_94 said:

 

 A zombie isn't usually made with a murderded being (unlike vampires who bite victims willingly), on the opposite, it's usually a spreading deadly virus that nobody can control and brings them back to undead living state

Strictly speaking not true, the virus angle is very much a modern pop culture thing and historically zombie tales were much more likely to involve the supernatural and magic.

 

I very strongly dislike the idea of changing zombie mechanics too drastically with summon BSAs or reaper dragons or whatever, and I absolutely oppose the idea of using someone else's dead dragons. I realize that not everyone will be satisfied with changing the text, but I think it's the best we're going to get and the only suggestion so far I actively support.

[Naruhina_94]

43 minutes ago, Keileon said:

Strictly speaking not true, the virus angle is very much a modern pop culture thing and historically zombie tales were much more likely to involve the supernatural and magic.

 

I very strongly dislike the idea of changing zombie mechanics too drastically with summon BSAs or reaper dragons or whatever, and I absolutely oppose the idea of using someone else's dead dragons. I realize that not everyone will be satisfied with changing the text, but I think it's the best we're going to get and the only suggestion so far I actively support.

 

Calling it virus or black magic makes very little difference. Call it as you prefer, I would also stick to magic.

I dont get why you guys repeat "using someone else's dead dragons" I repeated at least a couple of times that the mechanic would works pretty much like "Summon" and would create a new dragon code so actually the untouchable graveyard ones would remain there. Why do you dislike the idea of summoning anyway? I see it definetly as something a dark ritual would do with death and dark mana crystals. Do you want me to open individual topics? Maybe it's getting confusing since they are all pretty much different ideas (even if they are for the same purpose) 

 

Quote

To get a dead dragon - you have to kill it.

 

No. To get a dead dragon you have to accept that one of your alive dragons dies. Yes, that could count as killing it if you like, but LORE WISE you aren't killing anything since it isn't described in game. I repaet: you don't need to be described as the one who caused its death. It's not necessary. The player needs to be aware of the consequences of a particular in-game feature, while the dragonkeeper doesn't need to assume a specific murder role. I get vampires and neglected with no issues because the process doesn't describe the dragonkeeper involvment. but if the bite action triggers the following text: you trow a helpless egg at the mercy of ravenous vampires and watch as they slowly tear it apart I wouldn't be ok with it either. Still, it's exactly what's happening. I AM trowing it at them. It doesn't need to be described, tho. Same thing with murder.

 

KILL Current sentence:

You take your blade and stab the dragon, watching the life slowly leave its eyes as it stares at you, wondering why you betrayed it

 

DEATH Possible new neutral sentences: (a big warning appears: Selecting this option the dragon has an high chance of dying. Dead dragons will eventually be removed from your scroll)

 

The dragon misteriously died recently.

or

You find out the dragon died for unknow causes.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Naruhina_94

[ShorahNagi]

1 hour ago, Naruhina_94 said:

 Do you want me to open individual topics? 

I wouldn't do multiple (you'd end up with the same things here as posted there) - though as this seems to have shifted slightly from it's original intention (a way to get a Zombie without killing)...

 

You might want to consider a separate suggestion that's just changing the "kill" text [something that keeps the mechanics the same (as changing it seems to be bringing about discontent)...but removes the actual blame/guilt element that the current messages bring.]

 

Problem with that is you have to find a neutral reason why a healthy hatchling/adult died (eggs might be a bit trickier) that doesn't involve sickness, curses, etc.

[Pilauli]

Here's a proposal for much more neutral death messages:

"(Name) seems healthy and alert.  It probably won't die today."

"(Name) dies."

 

I like the idea of a summon BSA.  Maybe a scavenger dragon that finds a dragon corpse somewhere?  I have some ideas about how it could work...

Spoiler

 

- Just like CB eggs theoretically have unidentified parents, a scavenged dragon corpse would theoretically be a real dragon that has died of something, but the game would actually create it out of thin air.

- Not letting the player choose the new zombie's body type would be a reasonable drawback.  That leaves a niche for kill-and-revive when players want specific zombie sprites, but collecting scavenger dragons would probably be a viable way to make a zombie horde.

 

I suggest the following messages for a zombie-summoning BSA:

• "(Name) can't find any dragon corpses in the wilderness."  (Failure.)
• "(Name) returns with a dragon corpse and..."
  • standard "body disintegrates" failure
  • standard "brought back from the dead as a zombie" success
  • "You attempt to revive the dragon using magic, and are successful.  It runs away, back into the wild."  (Corresponds to the standard brings-dragon-back-to-normal-life outcome.)

With these messages, I would suggest that the operations on a dead body should have the same relative chances as they do when you try to revive a dead dragon on your scroll, but that they would all be less likely because your dragon would often fail to bring back a corpse.  Failing to acquire a corpse could have the same probability as failing to kill a dragon on your scroll, but it would use up the scavenger dragon's BSA slot anyway.  This would be a disadvantage compared to killing dragons, where if you fail to kill one dragon, you can kill a different one instead.

 

Scavenging corpses would, however, have two advantages according to this proposal:

- This would be limited by your number of scavenger dragons (you could collect more), instead of your number of kill slots (which never change).

- You don't have to raise and kill dragons.  You could raise one scavenger dragon instead of lots of zombie fodder, and if the idea of killing dragons bothers you, you could roleplay that you are trying to heal dead/injured dragons, and the zombies are just a side effect.

 

 

[Naruhina_94]

3 hours ago, Pilauli said:

Here's a proposal for much more neutral death messages:

"(Name) seems healthy and alert.  It probably won't die today."

"(Name) dies."

 

I like the idea of a summon BSA.  Maybe a scavenger dragon that finds a dragon corpse somewhere?  I have some ideas about how it could work...

  Hide contents

 

- Just like CB eggs theoretically have unidentified parents, a scavenged dragon corpse would theoretically be a real dragon that has died of something, but the game would actually create it out of thin air.

- Not letting the player choose the new zombie's body type would be a reasonable drawback.  That leaves a niche for kill-and-revive when players want specific zombie sprites, but collecting scavenger dragons would probably be a viable way to make a zombie horde.

 

I suggest the following messages for a zombie-summoning BSA:

• "(Name) can't find any dragon corpses in the wilderness."  (Failure.)
• "(Name) returns with a dragon corpse and..."
  • standard "body disintegrates" failure
  • standard "brought back from the dead as a zombie" success
  • "You attempt to revive the dragon using magic, and are successful.  It runs away, back into the wild."  (Corresponds to the standard brings-dragon-back-to-normal-life outcome.)

With these messages, I would suggest that the operations on a dead body should have the same relative chances as they do when you try to revive a dead dragon on your scroll, but that they would all be less likely because your dragon would often fail to bring back a corpse.  Failing to acquire a corpse could have the same probability as failing to kill a dragon on your scroll, but it would use up the scavenger dragon's BSA slot anyway.  This would be a disadvantage compared to killing dragons, where if you fail to kill one dragon, you can kill a different one instead.

 

Scavenging corpses would, however, have two advantages according to this proposal:

- This would be limited by your number of scavenger dragons (you could collect more), instead of your number of kill slots (which never change).

- You don't have to raise and kill dragons.  You could raise one scavenger dragon instead of lots of zombie fodder, and if the idea of killing dragons bothers you, you could roleplay that you are trying to heal dead/injured dragons, and the zombies are just a side effect.

 

 

 

I like your idea very much, it kinda reminds me how a cat behaves, by bringing you dead prey as a gift. It could also be the scavanger is actually trying to help dying dragons... I see a lot of potential in this one. 

[screwygirl]

Well, I will never have one. What about a once yearly raffle that happens in the month of October starting next year? Gives one lucky person the opportunity to get one without having to kill their own dragon. It might seem foolish to other people, but it's how I am. I just can't do it. I will NEVER kill my own dragons... 

[DragonLady86]

That is a choice you have made. The site does not have to cater to your personal scroll goals.

[Fuzzbucket]

31 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

That is a choice you have made. The site does not have to cater to your personal scroll goals.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

A zombie is created from a dead thing. And there is no way anyone should be using an action on a dragon that isn't theirs, so no to all the bright ideas about the graveyard and the wilderness. The mechanism is there, for anyone who wants to to use it - but nobody has to. There's no reason to change it. The same issue comes up with vampires (you can get those from the AP, though) and freezing. If your sensibilities don't allow it - you'll have to leave them off your scroll. If you are desperate you can try letting hatchies die in the fog, and go for those.

 

[Cal-ifornia]

I don't want Zombies, because I dislike the idea of killing my dragons. I understand why you'd want that changed, so that you could get Zombies without feeling guilty. But... it would still be "your fault." 

 

You would still have made the choice for your dragon to die. Even if you don't stab it, you decide you want a Zombie instead of your living dragon. I don't see how changing the text would change that fact. 

 

I don't support the graveyard idea, and am neutral towards the idea of wilderness scavenging. 

[schenanigans]

I'm supportive of the idea of being able to get zombies easier (whether by higher success rate or whatever) or even through other creative means, but I'm definitely against the idea of "mercy" killing or "euthanasia." It makes no sense to "put a dragon out of its misery" only to turn around and perform necromancy and summon it from the dead... to continue suffering. The expunge BSA even says it "uncurses" an undead dragon (and makes it wither into dust btw, not get released to the wild). 

[Naruhina_94]

16 minutes ago, schenanigans said:

I'm supportive of the idea of being able to get zombies easier (whether by higher success rate or whatever) or even through other creative means, but I'm definitely against the idea of "mercy" killing or "euthanasia." It makes no sense to "put a dragon out of its misery" only to turn around and perform necromancy and summon it from the dead... to continue suffering. The expunge BSA even says it "uncurses" an undead dragon (and makes it wither into dust btw, not get released to the wild). 

 

I see your point, but actually mercy is more about having an alternate way of killing more than an alternate way of zombifing. If someone wants to simply kill his/her dragon fro whatever reason besides zombifing it would give a different taste to it. I understand that not every single reason about killing a dragon requires a specific sentence displayed (that's what dragon descriptions are for) but "mercy" or "euthanasia" were the most basic alternatives to murder I could think of. If you have another generic reason about killing I don't mind using that. As I said  the purpose of that was more about changing the role playing from murder to something more close to the spirit of the game, aka something that involves caring for your dragons.

[Jazeki]

This is getting waaaay too complicated. At this point, I highly suggest sticking to only collecting baby zombies that have died after their time runs out or simply changing the flavor text to be more neutral. 

 

Please no raffles or new BSA's or graveyard hunting/scavenging to create zombies. I don't mind the idea of a grim reaper dragon, but I really don't see a need to create it just to be able to spontaneously summon a zombie because you aren't comfortable with killing it. 

 

 

[KrazyKarp]

2 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

This is getting waaaay too complicated. At this point, I highly suggest sticking to only collecting baby zombies that have died after their time runs out or simply changing the flavor text to be more neutral. 

 

Please no raffles or new BSA's or graveyard hunting/scavenging to create zombies. I don't mind the idea of a grim reaper dragon, but I really don't see a need to create it just to be able to spontaneously summon a zombie because you aren't comfortable with killing it. 

 

 

This exactly. I don't know why making things more complicated is such a habit of this suggestions forum, but it seems to happen a lot.

[Naruhina_94]

I'm missing the complicated part. What isn't clear exactly? It's a new feature and as such needs to be different from the ones already in use. Back when incubate was introduced I don't think people complained about it, even if we aready had earthquake that does the same thing. Earthquake makes the egg hatch faster, like incubate, but with the risk of killing.

Scavenging causes the same as Revive but without letting you choose the zombie body type. I truly don't see what's hard to figure out, sorry.

[Jazeki]

It's an unnecessary feature. We already have a way to create zombies. We don't need another because of semantics. Incubate and earthquake are not the same thing. Incubate reduces time on one egg. It doesn't hatch your eggs and doesn't carry the risk of killing the whole batch. 

[Fuzzbucket]

17 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

This is getting waaaay too complicated. At this point, I highly suggest sticking to only collecting baby zombies that have died after their time runs out or simply changing the flavor text to be more neutral. 

 

Please no raffles or new BSA's or graveyard hunting/scavenging to create zombies. I don't mind the idea of a grim reaper dragon, but I really don't see a need to create it just to be able to spontaneously summon a zombie because you aren't comfortable with killing it. 

 

13 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

This exactly. I don't know why making things more complicated is such a habit of this suggestions forum, but it seems to happen a lot.

 

Agree 1000%.

 

6 minutes ago, Naruhina_94 said:

I'm missing the complicated part. What isn't clear exactly? It's a new feature and as such needs to be different from the ones already in use. Back when incubate was introduced I don't think people complained about it, even if we aready had earthquake that does the same thing. Earthquake makes the egg hatch faster, like incubate, but with the risk of killing.

Scavenging causes the same as Revive but without letting you choose the zombie body type. I truly don't see what's hard to figure out, sorry.

 

What is "making things complicated" is the idea that it is in any way NECESSARY to cater to the feelings of people who can't bear to kill to get Zombies by creating a whole new mechanic in the game. It's a basically unnecessary complication. As Jaz says - let hatchlings die in the fog and try reviving them if you can't bear to use the mechanic that is and AFAIK always has been a part of the game. Why does this suddenly come out of the blue - has the world got more fastidious all of a sudden ?

[schenanigans]

1 hour ago, Naruhina_94 said:

 

I see your point, but actually mercy is more about having an alternate way of killing more than an alternate way of zombifing. If someone wants to simply kill his/her dragon fro whatever reason besides zombifing it would give a different taste to it. I understand that not every single reason about killing a dragon requires a specific sentence displayed (that's what dragon descriptions are for) but "mercy" or "euthanasia" were the most basic alternatives to murder I could think of. If you have another generic reason about killing I don't mind using that. As I said  the purpose of that was more about changing the role playing from murder to something more close to the spirit of the game, aka something that involves caring for your dragons.

 

But my point is, if you feel it necessary to change the way you kill things in a manner that is less offensive because it makes you feel bad, shouldn't actually owning a zombie and all of the details surrounding that warrant the same feeling?? A mercy killing isn't actually merciful if you're just gonna turn around and revive or zombify it, that is not logical. Repeating myself, but I mean.... 

 

I'm not opposed to something new like the graveyard suggestion or changing the kill phrasing to be a little less graphic if need be, but I'm fairly confident the reason it is that way is to deter you from needlessly killing things. I don't have another generic reason for killing to suggest because I don't believe it to be necessary. It is counterintuitive to spare the feelings of the killer because they feel bad to hurt their dragon, only to zombify it. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by schenanigans

[Naruhina_94]

28 minutes ago, schenanigans said:

 

But my point is, if you feel it necessary to change the way you kill things in a manner that is less offensive because it makes you feel bad, shouldn't actually owning a zombie and all of the details surrounding that warrant the same feeling?? A mercy killing isn't actually merciful if you're just gonna turn around and revive or zombify it, that is not logical. Repeating myself, but I mean.... 

 

I'm not opposed to changing the kill phrasing to be a little less graphic if need be, but I'm fairly confident the reason it is that way, is to deter you from needlessly killing things. I don't have another generic reason for killing to suggest because I don't believe it to be necessary. It is counterintuitive to spare the feelings of the killer because they feel bad to hurt their dragon, only to zombify it. 

 

You attempt to revive the dragon/hatchling using magic, but something goes horribly wrong. The dragon is brought back from the dead as a zombie

This is the description of zombifing a dragon. It doesn't imply that the dragonkepeer is reviving it to make it suffer, quite the opposite, he/she is trying to help the dragon but sadly something goes wrong and you get a zombie instead. I don't see the act of zombifing as evil, since it can have multiple reasons behind. The description is not limited as the killing one.

That's why I also agree that the more generic this whole sentence/description remains the more sense it makes. I quote what @Keileon said:

Quote

Let it be on the player to decide why a dragon dies. There's no need to complicate it with mercy killing or experimenting or whatever. Keep it simple.

 

A simple sentence that says: the dragon has died leaves everything up to the player: how, why, when he died etc... A detailed description of murder does not.

I left multiple options because if one or more of them are implemented they would still give more freedom of choice than currently it is now. Also it shows how the discussion is progressing and why certain choices were changed/abandoned.

 

I wish to collect every single sprite in game, including adult zombies. I really like DC sprites and I follow the game rules, but where I see space for improvment I would like to express it (in my humble opinion). I'm not saying there is an extreme NEED to change since I can still get all kind of zombies (and I'm grateful for that), but I see a discrepancy between getting them or any other dragon sprite. I tried my best to also resume all the correlated issues of the current killing sistem, like the dragon forgiving/forgetting you just tried to stab them.

 

I believe there is a difference between some game mechanics and the lore behind the game. Not everything needs to be further explained by the lore since the game requires certain actions to be available to be simple and straightforward. For example: I can hunt in all 6 biomes in a matter of seconds while they are tecnically miles apart from each other. The traveling dragon keeper isn't pictured in any way in game. Dragons breed and give me their eggs with no question asked even if they are sentient beings. I can kill an egg or hatchie and the parents don't abandon my scroll, even if many of them are described as loving and caring to their offspring. 

I see killing action in the same way: a game mechanic that can be done and has an impact on your scroll/account but that doesn't need to forcefully being explained by the lore.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Naruhina_94