Zombie Dragons... never gonna have one

[screwygirl]

I am a very sensitive person. I think the term is hypersensitivity. So when I learned that I must kill a dragon to get this breed, I decided that I would never have a zombie dragon...

Unless the talented creators make a way to get a zombie dragon without needing to kill one. *hint hint*
 

Maybe if one of your dragons accidentally dies, you can try to zombify it?

 

EDIT: After much discussion and discovering the mechanics of the Dragon Cave, I have decided to amend this suggestion. Apparently, there is no way for adults to accidentally die nor is that notion supported by anyone. I can respect that. @Naruhina_94 has come up with some alternative methods, which I don't know how to quote here... so I will post the link to it:

 

Naruhina_94's excellent ideas

If anyone knows how to quote someone while editing a post, please let me know.

Edited July 20, 2020 by screwygirl

[Paintra]

43 minutes ago, screwygirl said:

I am a very sensitive person. I think the term is hypersensitivity. So when I learned that I must kill a dragon to get this breed, I decided that I would never have a zombie dragon...

Unless the talented creators make a way to get a zombie dragon without needing to kill one. *hint hint*
 

Maybe if one of your dragons accidentally dies, you can try to zombify it?

 

Lucky you! This is already a thing!  When a hatchling dies by natural means, you have the same chance to revive it into a zombie. There is still no way to get an adult zombie dragon if that's what you're aiming for though.

[ShorahNagi]

No support. Zombies have always been the raised corpses of the dead. To me, it makes no sense to have any sort of BSA or other means (besides Paintra's mention of the natural death of hatchlings) to get this type of dragon.

 

Not to mention, adult dragons don't die (as the lore says, they're so long lived that no one has found a dragon that died of old age). For something like this to work, either TJ would need to make it that adults can die by natural means (ex. Been on a scroll for 10 years...which would probably make a lot of players angry to suddenly find dead dragons) OR a BSA that converts the dragon would need to be added [which in a way still 'kills' the dragon as it is (potentially) converted from it's original breed to the undead nightmare zombies are].

 

Sorry, but while it can be hard to get zombies, that's part of the challenge and fun. Also, at the end of the day - these are just pixels so the kill action is really just another form of a 'delete' button.

[olympe]

Well, I don't mind living without zombies on my scroll, so there's that. It's my choice, so I own the consequences.

[Fuzzbucket]

38 minutes ago, olympe said:

Well, I don't mind living without zombies on my scroll, so there's that. It's my choice, so I own the consequences.

Exactly - it's a matter of choice., You don't want to kill, you will never have an adult. Me I MURDER with impunity  

 

No support.

[purplehaze]

I know at least one player who will never kill anything. They have made the decision to never have Zombies (or even Vampires).

I am not especially fond of killing dragons, either, but have decided to close my eyes to the sad message you get when you succeed and make the attempt. I just wish I didn't have so many kills that still don't produce a Zombie. I feel bad for killing those only to have them crumble into dust.

 

No support for changing the way Zombies are obtained. As it is now it fits perfectly with Zombie nature.

[Jazeki]

Lots of people feel this way about killing their dragons, but I'm not sure how an adult dragon would ever accidentally die in this game. As others have said, closing your eyes to the message is the best option. Or collect baby zombies. 

[VixenDra]

It's your choice only.

I kill the pixels to get even better pixels I don't have yet

At the same time I pair pixels for life and have them live happily in loving families (no matter what their breed is described like https://dragcave.net/view/HfNkt). And give my incompletable GoNs some moving descriptions https://dragcave.net/view/5kMvX https://dragcave.net/view/Bk0m7 https://dragcave.net/view/s51hS - my poor GoNs are suffering much more than the zombie fodders could possibly imagine (and it's NOT my choice my GoNs are a broken family because the game gave me no option to choose to complete them - the scroll limit of GoNs being 3). Not that I put ANY thought into the fodders, they are just temporary and fodders I'll either kill trying or release when I'm done with obtaining the given zombie sprite... It's all choices that I considered best for my gameplay.  https://dragcave.net/group/13377 - if only had they display the undead sprite 3/4 of the time instead of mere 1/4...

It's all your decision what you sacrifice - the default code of some pixels or the scroll completness:)

Edited July 18, 2020 by VixenDra

[Syiren]

I see both sides. While I have killed several of my dragons (more failed Zombies than successes sadly u_u; ) It does really hurt when you see that dreaded message to raise a blade to your dragon and have it give you that look. Perhaps the wording of that message can be altered so that it's not as heart-wrenching? 

Isn't there an ability that one of the hybrids have to help heal zombies or revive the dead? The soulpeace, or am I getting that mixed with another dragon. I know fairly recently the white dragon was given "ward" to help fight sickness, but I know that's different.

[screwygirl]

Yes, I know they are pixels... but, I am hypersensitive. I just can't do it. It isn't just the message you get. The idea of killing something in my care... even if it is only simulated life (ie: pixel dragons) just upsets me. I abandoned an egg for the first time a few days ago, and I'm still wondering if it got picked up by someone or if it died...

 

Okay, I know it is silly. I am fully aware... but that's just me.  Guess my scroll will be a zombie-free zone!

I can see why that might be a problem (program-wise) since you can't do much with a dragon that becomes an adult. In some zombie lore, when one person is bitten or scratched by a zombie, they can become a zombie themselves... but to apply that to a dragon, one would have to actually have a zombie dragon... Seeing how this suggestion would need to incorporate new mechanics into the system, I guess it's not a very good suggestion. Sorry! I'm still new to the site and learning. 

[Fuzzbucket]

13 minutes ago, Syiren said:

I see both sides. While I have killed several of my dragons (more failed Zombies than successes sadly u_u; ) It does really hurt when you see that dreaded message to raise a blade to your dragon and have it give you that look. Perhaps the wording of that message can be altered so that it's not as heart-wrenching? 

Isn't there an ability that one of the hybrids have to help heal zombies or revive the dead? The soulpeace, or am I getting that mixed with another dragon. I know fairly recently the white dragon was given "ward" to help fight sickness, but I know that's different.

 

Yes a soulpeace can heal zombies - which sends them straight to the wild. But that doesn't help people who can't bear to create zombies in the first place.

[Syiren]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Yes a soulpeace can heal zombies - which sends them straight to the wild. But that doesn't help people who can't bear to create zombies in the first place.

True. Too bad we can't gift Zombies. Maybe instead of using teleport it can do a Zombie walk of sorts and roam onto another's scroll of your choosing and if the other scroll owner accepts. 

[Dracaena]

I am one who's scroll is zombie and vampire free.  I wouldn't ever deliberately kill one of my dragons.  My one and only experiment with earthquake bsa resulted in egg deaths and never repeated.  I find it somewhat disturbing that a self proclaimed sensitive person is ok with killing for zombies if the blood isn't on their hands.  That doesn't fly either.  My point of reference regarding my dragons is a little different I think from most.  I come from a game where dragons are player characters so I definitely consider it very foul play to kill a dragon.  I don't try for or wish to acquire a neglected dragon either as the conditions for that is equally distasteful.

 

So there you have it.  You can consider them pixels that don't matter regardless of the flavor text and work on a zombie collection.  Or role play the game and decide what is acceptable to you and don't worry about it.

[Naruhina_94]

I would like to keep getting zombies the way we are doing now, but also it would be cool if in terms in roleplaying there could me a couple of reasons about why you need to kill that dragon, expecially since they are intelligent beings.

All my zombies dragons have descriptions that "justify" why they have been killed:

 

While his eyes were closing Tutankhamon knew, his friend was doing the right thing. His human was crying, but the dragon itself asked to end his pain. However they both didn't know that this illness had an evil gift: a new dark life. Her human, horrified for his new state of madness, acted on impulse. She grab a dense crystal of life, a sliver big as her fist and she stuck it with all her strength in his heart. The anger remained, but a glimmer of awareness illuminated his eyes, too. This is the only reason he didn't attack her, but ran away instead. Tutankhamon is now back to the desert, fighting an internal battle between good and evil, to find peace. He found and warned other dragons who had the same disease. Some decided to find the human and do the same thing, refusing to go mad after death. Tutankhamon became the Ancestor of Morti, he's protecting and guiding them. It doesn't matter what they were in life: Two heads, Wyverns, Wyrms, Easterns. Death makes everyone equal.

 

Oblivium was Tutankhamon of the Sands' first ally. It all began because of a terrible incident when he was still alive. One of the two heads, the one named Vilimor, died to protect the other. Vilimor put himself between the falling rocks and the other head, Killian, protecting him with the cost of his own life. The remaining head felt like he lost more than a brother and a friend; he indeed lost a big part of his own being. He couldn't afford to live alone, but he didn't want to waste his other half's sacrifice. The survivor head came up with the conclusion that both of them should have been reunited in the only form of life that was left available: the undead life. To keep some his consciousnesses, Killian asked the human to give him two crystals of life, one for him and one for Vilimor. Understanding this was his final wish, the human accepted his request, but she also asked him to follow Tutankhamon of the Sands, because only he could be a guide through pain and sorrow.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Honestly I can't see the need for switching to "euthanize". Who's to decided which dragon is suffering - YOU, because you want a zombie. It's a cop-out. Be honest - to get a zombie you have to kill (or let a hatchie die). Them's the breaks.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[Naruhina_94]

Maybe you can't see the need but others can. It would be of no harm to let people choose why they are killing their dragons, expecially when it would be as easy as adding few lines. It doesn't even need to be a different action, just an alternative thing you select once you press kill. Is it that hard? Is this world allowing that no dragons die at all unless humans go on a killing spree? It doesn't even makes sense as dragon breeders who are supposed to raise them...

I just read an user description of a dragon who wants to gain the tilte of Best Banana in the Jungle, but he lost it because another dragon accidently voted for a tree. I guess that is more lore-friendly than choosing to help one of the 3000 dragons you're raising since they were eggs.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Naruhina_94

[HeatherMarie]

21 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Honestly I can't see the need for switching to "euthanize". Who's to decided which dragon is suffering - YOU, because you want a zombie. It's a cop-out. Be honest - to get a zombie you have to kill (or let a hatchie die). Them's the breaks.

 

100% agree. 

 

As much as it can suck, this is a *game* with basically just pictures of dragons and text. If you want that pretty zombie dragon picture on your scroll, you have to click a 'kill' button. Does it seriously matter if that button is labeled 'kill' or 'euthanize'? It means the exact same thing. We are all able to give our own dragons backstories and descriptions of our own making, if it helps to think of it as euthanizing there is nothing stopping you from doing so now. But it's not going to change what the action *is* by using a different word. 

 

I personally wouldn't mind a zombie-BSA for a better chance at *making* zombies in the first place, since the failure rate is so ridiculously high (unless something has changed, haven't tried in awhile). But it should be a zombie being able to make another zombie, which would mean having a zombie to begin with.

 

edit: @Naruhina_94 Euthanizing *is* killing. Different word, same action. If someone needs so badly to justify their killing of a dragon there is nothing stopping them from doing so now. I see no reason for the *game* to differentiate between 'kill' and 'kill but for reasons', players can already do that for themselves. It honestly does just seem like a cop-out, a 'have your cake and eat it too' thing, wanting to have a zombie but not wanting to do what it takes so just calling it something else as a justification. It's still the exact same action, just a 'nicer word'.

Edited July 18, 2020 by HeatherMarie

[Paintra]

I can see usefulness for a "Euthanize" action that has a 100% success rate to kill with fewer uses and/or a longer cooldown. But I don't think replacing the Kill action is a good idea. I understand people's problems with hyperempathy- I had those issues for a long time! But eventually you learn to avert your eyes from the kill message and also not kill dragons you're not okay with losing.

[Jazeki]

4 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

 

 

I personally wouldn't mind a zombie-BSA for a better chance at *making* zombies in the first place, since the failure rate is so ridiculously high (unless something has changed, haven't tried in awhile). But it should be a zombie being able to make another zombie, which would mean having a zombie to begin with.

 

 

Maybe if it behaved a little like vampires? And a freshly zombied dragon has a chance of "running away to form a horde" sort of like vampires are repulsed?  Who knows. 

 

I agree that changing the flavor text doesn't really do anything here. You're still killing it. Just euthanasia is a bit...kinder...about it. 

[Naruhina_94]

6 minutes ago, Paintra said:

I can see usefulness for a "Euthanize" action that has a 100% success rate to kill with fewer uses and/or a longer cooldown. But I don't think replacing the Kill action is a good idea. I understand people's problems with hyperempathy- I had those issues for a long time! But eventually you learn to avert your eyes from the kill message and also not kill dragons you're not okay with losing.

 

Exactly, it could give an higher chance but you have less uses and a loger cooldown.

We have both Incubate and Earthquake that do the same thing (hatching faster) with different level of risk for your eggs. I dont see why 2 options would be bad. Plus I never suggested to take the kill action away.

I find funny how bounch of people agreed they find this killing message unpleasant and just "close their eyes" when the time comes but the moment I suggest a solution is immediatly shut down with no other reason of: it's not needed. Well it's not needed to be this harsh either. Yes, I have to kill a dragon, yes, i'm killing it even by euthanizing, so? what harm would it do to have just a minor roleplaying addition to the game? Which is the purpose of Ecyclopedia? Which is the purpose of dragon descriptions?? In order for us to catch-raise-breed dragons both encyclopedia and dragon descriptions are a complete waste of time that mods could spend in another way. No more pending descritpions, no need for TJ to update encyclopedia everytime a dragon is relased. Voilà.

MAYBE roleplaying is a part of this game aswell and adding 15 text words isn't just an usless lame justification for my actions as someone is implying.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Naruhina_94

[Syiren]

I do like the Euthaniza idea. And I totally applaud the descriptions for why dragons are killed and become Zombies. 

 

One of my hatchlings has a description where he was badly beaten by the locals in a village. it cried out for help to a passing wizard who took pity on it and died as the wizard approached. the mage then tried to revive him, but only managed to bring him back as a zombie, yet the dragon remained grateful to him and was thankful for the effort.

 

I'm all for adding a bit more role playing to this game and the Zombie BSA sounds like a great idea. Especially the chance it may join a hoard. It reminds me of the game we had during one of the last few Halloween events. Where you had a castle to defend with dragon chess pieces and zombies would attack.

[screwygirl]

3 hours ago, Dracaena said:

I am one who's scroll is zombie and vampire free.  I wouldn't ever deliberately kill one of my dragons.  My one and only experiment with earthquake bsa resulted in egg deaths and never repeated.  I find it somewhat disturbing that a self proclaimed sensitive person is ok with killing for zombies if the blood isn't on their hands.  That doesn't fly either.  My point of reference regarding my dragons is a little different I think from most.  I come from a game where dragons are player characters so I definitely consider it very foul play to kill a dragon.  I don't try for or wish to acquire a neglected dragon either as the conditions for that is equally distasteful.

 

So there you have it.  You can consider them pixels that don't matter regardless of the flavor text and work on a zombie collection.  Or role play the game and decide what is acceptable to you and don't worry about it.

Let me clarify this so it won't disturb you any longer. Any death of a dragon on my scroll would be devastating to me. I would not consider it acceptable to have anyone else kill my dragons, either. However, if a dragon died accidentally, to make it a zombie would be a way to make the best of a bad circumstance. 

I have yet to lose a dragon to the cold claws of death, and I intend to continue that way.

 

Also, I wouldn't be able to "euthanize" a dragon either. That is a whole new level of psychology right there. I have had real life experience with that, and I wouldn't want to drag that into my fantasy world.

No, I guess I will never have a zombie dragon. I'm not willing to kill (or pretend to kill) to achieve that goal.

 

Edit: Also, I realize that might have sounded a bit snippy... I apologize. It was not intended.

Edited July 18, 2020 by screwygirl

[Keileon]

My only problem with the kill action is that the message for success sounds like straight-up murder, but there are no consequences to the player when the dragon dodges. It's like the dragon just goes "lol, can't get me, better luck tomorrow" and isn't concerned with the fact that you just tried to kill it. If one of the two messages was changed, there'd be less of a disconnect between gameplay and roleplay.

 

For example, if the dragon would dodge:

You grab a knife and wait for a chance to kill the dragon, but you never get the opportunity. You'll have to wait for another day.

which would at *least* make it clear you're supposed to wait to try again. Even though it's more inclined towards assassination/murder, it could still very well be that the dragon hasn't worked up its own nerves.

 

But for the purposes of this thread, maybe also changing the death message to be less of a blatant, why-would-you-do-this betrayal, would help empathic players get past the idea of stabbing their dragons. This way they can more readily tell themselves that it wasn't just cold-blooded murder.

You take your knife and stab the dragon, watching the light fade from its eyes as its body goes still.

This is a much more neutral message, which players can reason as whatever kind of kill they want. There's no preloaded implication of anything except that you used a knife to do it.

[VixenDra]

8 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I personally wouldn't mind a zombie-BSA for a better chance at *making* zombies in the first place, since the failure rate is so ridiculously high (unless something has changed, haven't tried in awhile). But it should be a zombie being able to make another zombie, which would mean having a zombie to begin with.

 

 

The failure rate IS riddiculusly high:

  

On 7/11/2020 at 11:00 AM, VixenDra said:

0/5

 

0/28 since the last success day 😠

and it's not my longest fail spree as far as I remember...
I've been trying to get a set of 5 each ever since the update... 4 freakin' years and I'm STILL not done (mind you my scroll is minimal, I only have 1 set per breed/variant +some useful BSAs I don't collect anymore for years by now, like I'm not busy raising other projects, it's JUST 5 per new release and the zombies...)

PS. that's a hint everyone - if you're considering including the undeads into your scroll goal and be like "if only the text was different", better start sooner than later... the text probably won't change and you need years to get them, even in 2s (I personally finished the hatchie goal quite a while ago although I needed more hatchis than adults and it's the adults I'm still struggling with)

[Stromboli]

Any action performed on a dragon should be deliberate. I don't know that "accidental" deaths for adult dragons could be implemented in a way that absolves users of having to push the "kill" button without also being potentially disastrous to people who don't want their adults randomly turning up dead.

 

Sure, change the text to be less guilt-trippy, but "accidental" deaths would probably not be a great time for anyone.