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Longer-lasting floods for big releases?

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On 6/30/2020 at 4:53 AM, Awdz Bodkins said:

Best would be to only release 1-2/week, with the initial drop rate staggered to allow folks to grab them for at least the 1st 24 hours. That would eliminate the frustration of people who collect multiples to meet scroll goals and allow for those with conflicts to have a chance at them.

 

This.

 

Releases of 2+ breeds at once are a bit too much for me. I'm collecting four breeding pairs of each breed / colour variation, and I'm still filling gaps in my collection of the last Birthday dragons - only a month ago, we got seven new breeds (with three colour variations of Pargulus Pygmies), and now seven more Xenos... Too much, in my opinion. I would be happy to see huge releases lasting longer and being split, if possible, into a few weeks or so.

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I love this idea, I missed the first couple days of this release because of my schedule and now because of the lag caused by everyone else who presumably missed the release, I'm finding it impossible to catch the new Xenos when they actually drop.

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Posted (edited)

Here's what I think what has helped put a cloud over this release:

 

1. We had 10 new dragons (including variants) released last month, same drop pattern as usual.  A bit frustrating, but I deal with this each time there's a birthday drop, which is usually when there's a release larger than 2-3 new eggs at a time.  Normally, for June, we get a normal size drop of no more than 4 new eggs.

 

2. Thirty seven days later, we get another big release.  Back to back.  17 new dragons total.  The last time we had this happen was the Egg Flood/Moar Eggs releases 11 years ago!  IIRC, there was a massive push back at the time because of the large number of new eggs "at the same time", and I don't think we had 8 slots at the time.  Someone remind me, didn't TJ say at one point during that time period that he was going to back off because people were complaining it was too much? 

 

For reference, there were 31 new dragons released in 2009 (including variants).  From 2010-2019, the average number of releases per year was 21.8 (22, rounding up).  Halfway through 2020, we've already had 23.

 

Constructive suggestions/lessons learned? (my profession as a software consultant is popping out now :P ):

1.  These releases needed more thoughtful planning to space out big releases like this better.  Back to back is no bueno.  I get that birdz/TJ wanted to celebrate Xenos with the new 6 + the mother dragon.  Unfortunately, having two large releases back to back has created a stressful and "not fun" situation with the game; highly ironic since the theme of the birthday release was a "care package" to the community.  Did it have to be a birthday release?  Did the birthday release have to be 10 dragons?  I assume the plan to celebrate the Xenos's 5 year anniversary wasn't a spur of the moment decision.

 

When Xenos originally came out, the Birthday release the prior month was only 3 (Greater Spotted Drake/Hooktalon/Magelight), so people were in the better position to handle a big release.  Especially since the month after there was only a single release (Spirit Ward).  It looks like it was planned out 5 years ago to not overwhelm the players.  What happened this year to keep that from happening?

 

2. There are too many dragons to make the hard switch from flood to mixed in under 24 hours.  This has been pointed out for a while now.  If the choice is made continue to have irregular/"unscheduled" releases, then the drop itself should be adjusted. While I'm not a fan of 100% flood for multiple days, I think there should be a way to balance out how the regular drops mix in over a period of time to allow all players a better chance to get what they want for their goals.  If a multiple day flood is too much for smaller releases, maybe there can be an alternate mechanic employed only for larger releases (over 4 or 5?).  There is a precedent for varying the flood (aforementioned holiday releases), so why not?

 

My suggestion, brought over from the release post:

Quote

There are just too many dragons overall now to keep to the schedule of having the new eggs flood for less than 24 hours then have a hard switchover to the standard drops.  According to my list (which could be completely wrong) we now have between 65ish - 90ish dragons per biome, so each new release is diluted by quite a bit when the mix happens.  I like your idea of having a mix before going to the standard drops.  Maybe a decreasing % over 4 days instead? IE D1 Flood - D2 75% - D3 50% - D4 25% - D5 normal.  I think this would give everyone who missed D1 for various reasons a chance to catch them while allowing others to go back to their regular catching goals.

 

My context - I've been playing for nearly 12 years.  I've seen multiple droughts/excess for various breeds over time.  It may take time, but the ratio will always do its thing eventually.  I'm normally a "go with the flow" sort when it comes to the game.  My life has changed over time, not allowing me as much time to hunt eggs any more, much less do the things in the DC forums that I used to. (I mean, I *completely* missed the Soulstone release! 😲).  The spirit of my suggestions is to help other players that are in my situation continue to be able to enjoy the game.

 

Sorry for the novel!  I guess I channeled my inner George RR Martin. :blush:

 

(Edit for typos and formatting.)

 

Edited by Moranna

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, Moranna said:

Here's what I think what has helped put a cloud over this release:

 

1. We had 10 new dragons (including variants) released last month, same drop pattern as usual.  A bit frustrating, but I deal with this each time there's a birthday drop, which is usually when there's a release larger than 2-3 new eggs at a time.  Normally, for June, we get a normal size drop of no more than 4 new eggs.

 

2. Thirty seven days later, we get another big release.  Back to back.  17 new dragons total.  The last time we had this happen was the Egg Flood/Moar Eggs releases 11 years ago!  IIRC, there was a massive push back at the time because of the large number of new eggs "at the same time", and I don't think we had 8 slots at the time.  Someone remind me, didn't TJ say at one point during that time period that he was going to back off because people were complaining it was too much? 

 

For reference, there were 31 new dragons released in 2009 (including variants).  From 2010-2019, the average number of releases per year was 21.8 (22, rounding up).  Halfway through 2020, we've already had 23.

 

Constructive suggestions/lessons learned? (my profession as a software consultant is popping out now :P ):

1.  These releases needed better planning to space out big releases like this better.  Back to back is no bueno.  I get that birdz/TJ wanted to celebrate Xenos with the new 6 + the mother dragon.  Unfortunately, having two large releases back to back has created a stressful and "not fun" situation with the game; highly ironic since the theme of the birthday release was a "care package" to the community.  Did it have to be a birthday release?  Did the birthday release have to be 10 dragons?  I assume the plan to celebrate the Xenos's 5 year anniversary wasn't a spur of the moment decision.

 

When Xenos originally came out, the Birthday release the prior month was only 3 (Greater Spotted Drake/Hooktalon/Magelight), so people were in the better position to handle a big release.  Especially since the month after there was only a single release (Spirit Ward).  It looks like it was planned out 5 years ago to not overwhelm the players.  What happened this year to keep that from happening?

 

2. There are too many dragons to make the hard switch from flood to mixed in under 24 hours.  This has been pointed out for a while now.  If the choice is made continue to have irregular/"unscheduled" releases, then the drop itself should be adjusted. While I'm not a fan of 100% flood for multiple days, I think there should be a way to balance out how the regular drops mix in over a period of time to allow all players a better change to get what they want for their goals.  If a multiple day flood is too much for smaller releases, maybe there can be an alternate mechanic employed only for larger releases (over 4 or 5?).  There is a precedent for varying the flood (aforementioned holiday releases), so why not?

 

My suggestion, brought over from the release post:

 

My context - I've been playing for nearly 12 years.  I've seen multiple droughts/excess for various breeds over time.  It may take time, but the ratio will always do its thing eventually.  I'm normally a "go with the flow" sort when it comes to the game.  My life has changed over time, not allowing me as much time to hunt eggs any more, much less do the things in the DC forums that I used to. (I mean, I *completely* missed the Soulstone release! 😲).  The spirit of my suggestions is to help other players that are in my situation continue to be able to enjoy the game.

 

Sorry for the novel!  I guess I channeled my inner George RR Martin. :blush:

 

 

I would like to see your ideas be adopted and integrated in game and as such deliver a satisfing ending to this show (unlike GoT).

I dont want less breeds relased per year, because as stuff is right now new dragons are the only thing that keep everything fresh on a regular basis. But the problem with overpopulation has to be dealt with, we have so many breeds that soon there won't be matematically enough time for every common one to appear in the biomes, let alone the rarer breeds.

More Biomes, more dropping rules, better schedule and (maybe) more healty restrictions about how many eggs of the same breed can someone have on the first day a dragon is relased.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Posted (edited)

@Moranna That is an excellent post, thank you for putting your views into such an easily understandable post. I agree that two large releases back to back probably made this release harder than it would've been otherwise. And the idea of a decreasing 'flood' over multiple days, imo, is the best thing I've seen suggested in this area so far. I don't support over-24h floods for multiple reasons, but I do think going straight from 'flood!' to 'barely seen' is an issue. Gradual mixing of old/new would, I think, be a pretty good compromise.

(Also, the number of different breeds in each biome has been an issue for awhile, I'd love to see more biomes added for that reason!)

Edited by HeatherMarie

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Posted (edited)

I missed this release by a day, and have had a lot of trouble catching up with it. Old Xenos are hard to catch on a good day, so having missed this release during its flood kinda just makes it feel like I'm never going to get a set of the new ones. Not the end of the world but def a bit disappointing and I'd be really happy to see a full 24 hour flood release before they start mixing in.. 24 hours is a reasonable amount of time imo, I wouldn't mind 36 hours but I know once we start getting up there we start interfering with how people regularly play. After any flood they should mix in gradually (I thought they already did?).

 

I'm not in favor of limiting how many of each breed people can get; I think egg limits are as far as we should go for regular releases. They are permanently available after all, and not a holiday like Christmas or Valentine's

Edited by Sundew

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47 minutes ago, Sundew said:

I missed this release by a day, and have had a lot of trouble catching up with it. Old Xenos are hard to catch on a good day, so having missed this release during its flood kinda just makes it feel like I'm never going to get a set of the new ones. Not the end of the world but def a bit disappointing and I'd be really happy to see a full 24 hour flood release before they start mixing in.. 24 hours is a reasonable amount of time imo, I wouldn't mind 36 hours but I know once we start getting up there we start interfering with how people regularly play. After any flood they should mix in gradually (I thought they already did?).

 

I'm not in favor of limiting how many of each breed people can get; I think egg limits are as far as we should go for regular releases. They are permanently available after all, and not a holiday like Christmas or Valentine's

 

Not even if the limit only applies during the relase days? The limit would be lifted after that

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1 minute ago, Naruhina_94 said:

 

Not even if the limit only applies during the relase days? The limit would be lifted after that

I really dont see what it would do? Most people were trying to get ONE of each. A few went for pairs, the only ones I saw that had more than 2 were those that caught flows when only they were dropping and didnt realise till after. If everyone is going for diversity anyway I cant see the point of limits for a day.

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34 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

I really dont see what it would do? Most people were trying to get ONE of each. A few went for pairs, the only ones I saw that had more than 2 were those that caught flows when only they were dropping and didnt realise till after. If everyone is going for diversity anyway I cant see the point of limits for a day.

I got four CB alpines on day one 😆 But usually I just go for a pair of each on the opening day. Though I too think that limiting the amount of eggs on day one to ~4 wouldn't be super helpful considering the majority are only going for one/two of each. 

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Posted (edited)

As far as I know this last event saw the Staterae dragon massively relased in the very early hours since the announcement. Assuming this will happen also to the next ultra rare dragon it's more than normal to assume players will try to scroll lock themself with new eggs, expecially if there are less breed to collect. I repeat, depends on the number of new breeds. We got 7 this time, so ofc people tryed to have a couple of each type. If we had just 2 I would have had 4 eggs for each breed. And single dragon relases happens too, what if it's a rare then? mhm.

My suggestion was also to reduce the discrepancy between those with more egg slot, but I admit it could be not that much needed ^^

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Posted (edited)

I just don't have any issue with people trying to meet their scroll goals during a release, even if that scroll goal is large. To me that's a big part of what releases are for - hoarding what you can while they're widely available. If someone wants to get 8 eggs of the same type during a release I think that's okay.

Edited by Sundew

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I think the limits we have now are plenty. Biome-caught eggs will take up slots for a couple days, so it's not like one user can grab dozens at once. Eight is the highest, and many people have lower trophies. I *always* support the option that *wouldn't* negatively affect a ton of users, and limits like that certainly would. If users are that frustrated about not being able to grab new releases right away, the solution is to change how new releases work, not change how people are allowed to play.

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6 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I think the limits we have now are plenty. Biome-caught eggs will take up slots for a couple days, so it's not like one user can grab dozens at once. Eight is the highest, and many people have lower trophies. I *always* support the option that *wouldn't* negatively affect a ton of users, and limits like that certainly would. If users are that frustrated about not being able to grab new releases right away, the solution is to change how new releases work, not change how people are allowed to play.

Thank you for spelling it out. I totally agree with this.

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So do I. Our scroll limits are limit enough.

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Adding a few thoughts of my own:

 

Quite a bit of the problem with this release stems from two sources - the number of eggs released and the rarity of the eggs involved. The first is made worse by the fact that we just had a big release, and many of us still need to catch up on it. That being said, don't get me wrong, I'm all for a lot of releases. I love new releases. Less so if they're kinda secret.

 

So, just an idea (compounding what someone else said above): Maybe restrict releases to 2 CB breeds (including CB variants) every other week on average. I wouldn't mind getting a two-breed release every other week, personally.

However, this also implies that larger releases can still happen - but that there should be a while where we can catch up with it afterwards. So, a relase like the current deserves (at least) a 6-week period of no in-cave releases afterwards, although I'd be fine with new breed-only variants (like, uh, purple or brown stripes, maybe?)  and hybrids. Because we can pretty much breed them at our leisure.

 

I'd also like to ask for rare or even uncommon breeds to be released en mass in the future, as it causes a lot of stress for everyone involved if they are.

 

On the plus side, a rule of thumb of 2 breeds every other week also means that the first and last release of release season could be quite huge, because we have a lot of time to catch up. (But please make those commons only.)

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9 hours ago, olympe said:

So, just an idea (compounding what someone else said above): Maybe restrict releases to 2 CB breeds (including CB variants) every other week on average. I wouldn't mind getting a two-breed release every other week, personally.

 

I would have to disagree with you on that.  Changing how often new eggs are released does not address the problems with the flood/mix timing.  In fact, I can see this would make things worse overall.

 

1. The biome dilution would increase significantly.  This would make each new release harder to find over time.  With a proposed 2 new breeds per release, that would mean 52 new breeds/variants each year.  That is far too many to release in a single year.  Including this year, the current annual average is about 20.

2. Players could easily "fall behind" in trying to get the new CBs with 26 releases each year.  DC would then become a constant scramble of trying to get the new eggs.

3. Even with a longer interval after a larger release, that still won't be enough time for people to get the number of CBs they need for their scroll goals.  If they're as rare as the new Xenos are, it still won't be enough time to make a dent in them before the next release happens.

4. Because of the eggs scramble (heh), players would not have a chance to play with the new dragons before the next ones arrive.  Current projects could fall off the wayside.  Player frustration would increase, and more people could start quitting because it's no longer fun.  

5. What happens with holidays fall in the "off" week?  Does this mean that we'd have new releases 3 weeks in a row?  Right now, the holiday releases serve as that month's release, so there's no change in the overall flow.

 

I think suggesting a different egg release schedule would be better off in a different thread. It would get lost here because it doesn't address the flood itself. :) 

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This has my full support. I realize that the releases begin at 12am in DC time, but for a lot of people, me included, this corresponds directly to bedtime for us and our families in our respective timezones. By the time we wake up in the morning to get ready for work/getting children ready for school/etc, the main flood has already ended and we're left trying to fill scroll goals with eggs that are either dropped so rarely or snatched up by people who likely have a faster internet connection or are able to take some downtime that we just can't compete. I missed the release by only a couple hours, but I've been trying for 6 days and have only gotten 3 of the new release eggs.

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As someone who completely missed day 1 of the flood cause well... life Ive been struggling do hard just to manage to get any of the new xenos. I honestly thought I wouldnt get any. So support. None of these huge back to back releases, please. It was a struggle to get the last big group (which im not even done collecting ;v; ) . Now we have a big group of new RARES? yeah I'm never gonna get them all. 

I'll most likely have to wait like, 5 months for them to be common enough that you MIGHT see one in abandoned, thats gonna be like. my only hope of getting them all.

Or like some generous person in trade marks the ones i don't have as 'free'.  Which is absurd. Just cause I 'Missed it by one day'.

 

Like at least let me miss the eggs cause im bad at hunting eggs. I never really get release day eggs anyways, but this feels like the hardest release I've seen. Then again, im not  very 'old' on this game.

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The entire ratio system clearly needs a rework but considering how many things plug into it I'm not shocked that Tj doesn't want to touch it. We're also rapidly reaching a point where the biomes probably need to be bigger or to have new biomes added just from the sheer number of breeds which likely doesn't help, since rarer stuff can get "stuck" under the current ultracommons even with egg rotation alleviating the issue a lot...

 

A stopgap measure I would find acceptable is for a certain time frame just not counting the new releases towards ratios, however long it takes to have roughly a day of mostly-uninterrupted flooding.

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4 hours ago, Halo--Cat said:

As someone who completely missed day 1 of the flood cause well... life Ive been struggling do hard just to manage to get any of the new xenos. I honestly thought I wouldnt get any. So support. None of these huge back to back releases, please. It was a struggle to get the last big group (which im not even done collecting ;v; ) . Now we have a big group of new RARES? yeah I'm never gonna get them all. 

I'll most likely have to wait like, 5 months for them to be common enough that you MIGHT see one in abandoned, thats gonna be like. my only hope of getting them all.

Or like some generous person in trade marks the ones i don't have as 'free'.  Which is absurd. Just cause I 'Missed it by one day'.

 

Like at least let me miss the eggs cause im bad at hunting eggs. I never really get release day eggs anyways, but this feels like the hardest release I've seen. Then again, im not  very 'old' on this game.

It's a bandaid solution and by no means a long-term fix, but all of the new eggs are in the market. Click, I think five? of each egg in hatcheries, and you can buy the new normal Xenos for 100 shards each. Staterae are more expensive, but Xenos themselves aren't rares, they're highly desired commons/uncommons-- which means they're cheap in the market, for now. :) Hope that helps!

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Keileon said:

It's a bandaid solution and by no means a long-term fix, but all of the new eggs are in the market. Click, I think five? of each egg in hatcheries, and you can buy the new normal Xenos for 100 shards each. Staterae are more expensive, but Xenos themselves aren't rares, they're highly desired commons/uncommons-- which means they're cheap in the market, for now. :) Hope that helps!

Emphasis by me. I expect the prices to go up pretty soon anyway. Both for Staterae (currently at 1200 shards) and the regular new Xenos (currently at 100 shards - for comparison: older Xenos are at 500 shards, but I think they sometimes go down to 400), so I expect the new Xenos to catch up to their older cousins. Which means that the Staterae are probably a true rare. Metallic/Trio rare, would be my guess. It even says so in their description.

Quote

It has long been considered to have gone extinct as its kind has not been seen in many millennia. Recent sightings, while rare...

So, yes, I bought my two Staterae as quickly as I could. (No more shards for another, though. Which is why I felt I had to act quickly.)

 

ETA:

6 hours ago, Guillotine said:

The entire ratio system clearly needs a rework but considering how many things plug into it I'm not shocked that Tj doesn't want to touch it. We're also rapidly reaching a point where the biomes probably need to be bigger or to have new biomes added just from the sheer number of breeds which likely doesn't help, since rarer stuff can get "stuck" under the current ultracommons even with egg rotation alleviating the issue a lot...

I so hope that the arrival of the Xenos heralds the arrival of 6 extra biomes. It kind of makes so much sense, anyway, especially if you look at the Xenowyrm descriptions.

Aquilo live high in the firmament and are almost never seen on the ground. => Looks like they would fit in with a sky biome.

Aso dwell in the frigid waters of the far north and south, and are occasionally spotted near tundra shores and iceflows.=> Looks like either a new cold biome (Glacier? Frostlands? Arctic? Polar?) or a cold-water biome.

Astrapi [...] Most of their time is spent airborne, flying through the skies or circling mountainsides for prey.. => Looks like they'll stay mountainside. ;) Alpine it is.

Chronos are often considered to be the most elusive of all Xenowyrm subspecies: they live in the darkest and densest forests, far from civilization. => Probably going to stay in the Jungle as-is.

Gaia will use their magic to grow vegetation around themselves so they can spread it wherever they travel. => These could be moved. Maybe to some kind of grassland biome, or a Jungle/Wetlands area. Whichever place is going to happen.

Ke’maro [...] Their terrifying appearance and toxic saliva along with their method of hunting and trapping prey has lead to many legends and stories that warn against traveling alone in the vast volcanic wastelands they call home. => So, Wasteland? For all those Cthulu-esque dragons people can come up with? :D

Mageia, found exclusively in desert regions, are thought to be the wisest Xenowyrm subspecies. => Will stay in desert.

Obidar are a curious and shy variey of Xenowyrm that make their home in forests. => Definitely Forest. Obviously.

Pharos are an aloof and majestic Xenowyrm that is most often seen gliding through the shimmering skies over the desert. Their gleaming scales catch and reflect the light in a most pleasing manner, and many attempt to find their valuable fallen scales around their lofty desert mountain perches. => This one flummoxes me. Maybe we'll get a hot mountainous biome? No idea what it's going to be called, though. Mesa?

Pyros [...] create their lairs solely in volcanic regions, where lava and billowing flames are the land’s most prominent features. => Stays in Volcano.

Thalassas are a unique variety of Xenowyrm in that they are the only subspecies known to dwell in marine environments. => Must stay in Coast.

Umbras are a solitary and generally unwelcoming subspecies found in the deepest and darkest recesses of the jungle. => Another Jungle? Probably not. I could see them moved to a "Darkland" biome, all things considered. Might be Caves/Underground, even.

 

Edited by olympe

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Just my opinion speaking only for myself.

 

We have a game that is being played around the world. It seems that it would be most fair to have release drops last for 24 hours so that each time zone has an equal opportunity to see and hunt the release. Maybe each hour drop could be made smaller if that is the only way to do this but having the drops last 24 hours seems only fair to me.

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My only real complaint is that you can't buy something until you've CAUGHT one, which is impossible. The whole point of a market is to be ABLE to get something you can't possibly catch. I love that the new dragons are so cheap, but COME ON, let us buy the frickin things. It is VERY frustrating.

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1 hour ago, saltywench said:

My only real complaint is that you can't buy something until you've CAUGHT one, which is impossible.

You can unlock them by clicking other eggs of that type in hatcheries or trade hub.

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