Enable Throwbacks from Hybrid x Hybrid

[olympe]

I've had this idea that I can't seem to get out of my head, and was wondering - is this feasible?

 

Suggestion 1: When you breed two different hybrids that share one ancestral breed, you have a small chance (maybe 10%?) of getting said breed.

 

Examples:              (I used the "unicorn" hatchling's lineage pic since we don't know yet what the adults will look like, much less what its name will be.)

 

Things might be too complicated for Avatars (no way to breed extra GoNs should exist - right? Not to mention that Avatars can happen with all kinds of mates for the GoNs.)

 

 

Suggestion 2: Allow for throwbacks if you breed two hybrids of the same kind. Chance should be quite low, too. Maybe the same as for UVs breeding Spitfires with a non-Spitfire mate. Or lower, like the chance to breed a Pink from an Aria.

Example (too lazy to make them all):  (Could just as well be a daydream 3rd gen, obviously.) 

 

Is this mechanic feasible and could it work for DC? Or is it too way out of line?

Edited May 22, 2020 by olympe

[ValidEmotions]

Wait, this isn't a thing already? 😮 I thought hybrids already could produce non-hybrid dragons. If not, then I support this. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.

[Fuzzbucket]

ONLY Ultraviolets, which can occasionally throw spitfires.

[Jazeki]

I wouldn't mind either option being implemented. It seems a bit strange to let ultraviolets be the only ones with the possibility of throwing spitfires.

[purplehaze]

I would be happy to see either of those options as well. More lineage possibilities to play with.

[ShorahNagi]

Though there's als the option of breeding a hybrid to any other breed and getting one of the parent eggs (ex. Soulpeace to Pillow = pillow, white, daydream, or soulpeace egg)...but that's a bit much.

 

At the same time, one can also breed the hybrid to one of its parent breeds and gst the throwback egg that way (less coding)

 

Anyhow, with either proposed option, I feel torn:

 

 On the one hand, it would be neat to be able to have 'breeding back' lineages. And it would allow for some interesting lineages.

 

On the other hand, if you're someone with limited breeding time...the frustration that could come from getting a 'throwback' instead of the hybrid might be a dealbreaker (even with regular lineages a wrong egg can throw a wrench in the gears *glares at the dark Lumina that needed to be a Light*)

[Nightwalkerkey]

2 hours ago, ShorahNagi said:

Though there's als the option of breeding a hybrid to any other breed and getting one of the parent eggs (ex. Soulpeace to Pillow = pillow, white, daydream, or soulpeace egg)...but that's a bit much.

 

I thought you can only get a soulpeace or pillow from a pairing like that...? Thought ultraviolets were the only ones who could breed that way

[ShorahNagi]

 

5 minutes ago, Nightwalkerkey said:

I thought you can only get a soulpeace or pillow from a pairing like that...? Thought ultraviolets were the only ones who could breed that way

Looking back, my wording is a little unclear and part of my post got lost (typing on my phone)

 

That post was meant to be a take on 'suggestion 1' that if throwback breeding was implemented that it could extend beyond just Hybrids with common ancestors to all dragon bred with hybrids.

 

Sorry for the confusion

[Nightwalkerkey]

Oops, I may have misread as well! Lol


I would be all for this overall, I've always wondered why only Spitfires get to throwback

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Heck yes, this has my full support. If one hybrid can do it, they should all be able to!

[icearashi]

I support! I’m more of a supporter to suggestion 2 though. Hybrid x Hybrid would 100% be a Hybrid offspring? Sounds a bit weird to me in the first place. It could be just a small chance, like 10% of the throwback, but I really think this is a great idea! 

[Ruby Eyes]

I'd love throwbacks for any hybrid, no matter if it's bred to something of the same or a totally different breed.

Ultraviolets can do that as well, after all: https://dragcave.net/lineage/7GEbn

[purplehaze]

I would like to have some small chance, at least, of a throwback from any hybrid breeding.

[olympe]

Personally, I'm not that fond of letting any hybrid have a chance to breed a throwback because that thing was actually introduced for the UVs and only the UVs. Just like Arias (formerly Bright Pinks) are the only breed that can give you Pink eggs. Making it a mechanism for all hybrids would be like taking a breed-specific mechanic and adding it to various others, which feels slightly wrong to me.

[Ruby Eyes]

13 hours ago, olympe said:

Just like Arias (formerly Bright Pinks) are the only breed that can give you Pink eggs.

That has NOTHING to do with Ultraviolets, that's plain DC history with regards to introduction of one breed and discontinuation of the other. Arias still being able to breed Pinks was simply to allow continuation of lineages that were built while Arias (OLD Pinks) were still unavailable.

 

Adding breed-specific mechanics to other breeds has happened before.

E.g. suddenly, Sunrises, Sunsets and Sunsongs can breed hybrids. The only other breed that could result in 2 different hybrids before was the Water Dragon.

Coppers introduced biome-based alt breeding - the same has been applied to other breeds, right upon their release.

Timebased breeding used to be a Glory Drake thing. At least you could see if they're Day or Night Glories right upon hatching. Solstices have been retroactively modified so you could see it at least on the gendered hatchling - which you couldn't, for some generations.

 

This site is a project that is constantly being developed and getting features added to it. Who says you cannot retro-fit things? TJ himself has brushed aside arguments like "it has always been that way" so ...

[olympe]

I'm not saying "it has always been this way", but "it makes something that was supposed to be special into something commonplace".

You may have noticed that I'm not against change. Not at all. But the throwback to spitfires was meant to be special to UVs because they're much more like spitfires than purples - or so it was said way back when.

[Ruffledfeathers]

Hmm that sounds pretty interesting. I support this. 

[Ruby Eyes]

3 hours ago, olympe said:

But the throwback to spitfires was meant to be special to UVs because they're much more like spitfires than purples - or so it was said way back when.

That'll actually keep Ultraviolets special, in that they won't drop Purples out of the blue. That's at least how I understood their creator back when it was discussed whether they should also throw back Purples or not.

[Keileon]

Support if it's a low chance; even just working with PB Spinels I get annoyed at wrong-color eggs. A 10% chance works fine for me.

[Shokomon]

I feel like this would just make breeding more of a headache.

 

Because now I have way more options and chances for failed attempts.
 

And is this just limited to pure Hybrid pairs or does it included Hybrid x Non-Hybrid, where the non-hybrid shares parentage with the Hybrid? Because as it stands for the Ultraviolets, they throw Spitfires regardless of who the 2nd parent is.

[olympe]

@Shokomon Well, my intention was for it to only apply to hybrid x hybrid pairings where both hybrids share one parent breed. So either purebred hybrids (shallow water x shallow water, for example) or two different hybrids with a common ancestral breed.

 

Of course, this gets iffy in a number of situations.

• Avatars/GoN. The throwback feature needs to be disabled for them. Because you shouldn't be able to breed GoNs, and as soon as you start crossbreeding weird avatar lines, things get really iffy. I mean, what would you get if you bred something like https://dragcave.net/lineage/cxsHz to one of its siblings? Well? (Okay, so the dragon linked doesn't have any siblings yet. So sue me.)
• Risensong and Setsongs can create similar problems, but maybe they can give you a chance at a sun egg anyway? After all, sunrise/sunset are kind of almost the same species.
• What is supposed to happen when you breed a bluna from a deep sea parent to a shallow water? Should you be able to get a water offspring? (I think not, but it's worth considering.)

[Shadowdrake]

I think taking into account actual lineage would be too complicated and/or too big of a change for DC. At the moment DC doesn't care what a dragon's gen, parentage, or lineage is, it just produces based on "do these dragons like each other and what can they possibly make". I don't really want that to change, since it's a big part of the freedom of breeding on DC.

 

Now, I could get behind this if the only things it considers are "what breeds can make this hybrid, and does it share any of those breeds with its mate?" and if they do, it has a chance of tossing said shared breed. This can lead to weird things like green x green -> geode x geode -> stone, but I think that's a positive rather than a negative. Also agreed that avatars should be left out.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Shadowdrake

[Ruby Eyes]

Wasn't it said that Geodes aren't actually considered hybrids, but rather alts? I may be misremembering ...

Avatars are special as well and should be excluded from this suggestion either way.

I don't think anything needs to be disabled though. It just wouldn't get enabled for them. Tiny language nitpick

 

20 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

does it share any of those breeds with its mate

That *would* consider the actual lineage, though. I don't think it needs to be that complicated.

 

On 6/6/2020 at 11:53 PM, olympe said:

Risensong and Setsongs can create similar problems, but maybe they can give you a chance at a sun egg anyway? After all, sunrise/sunset are kind of almost the same species.

Same egg - what it hatches into is owner's choice, so I don't see any problem there.

 

On 6/6/2020 at 11:53 PM, olympe said:

What is supposed to happen when you breed a bluna from a deep sea parent to a shallow water? Should you be able to get a water offspring? (I think not, but it's worth considering.)

I'd actually like that option Considering that both are able to make the same hybrid with the same Skywing mate, it seems "genetically" they are close enough to each other that it could happen.

 

On 6/6/2020 at 11:30 PM, Shokomon said:

I feel like this would just make breeding more of a headache.

 

Because now I have way more options and chances for failed attempts.

You make it sould like this would affect ALL breeding. What I see, though, is that a large proportion of lineage breeders go for checkers or other 2-breed lineages and often avoid hybrids anyway. The percentages of overall lineages this would affect at all seems rather small to me.

Then we have breeders going for other fun lineages (I consider myself one of these). I think we would find joy in that breed mechanic, too (which is why this suggestion exists).

Then we have breeders who don't care about lineages, only about the resulting sprite. I agree, these might have to try another time (or with another pair) in case of unexpected throwback.

 

So we have these hybrids, EXCLUDING Avatars:

Amalthean

Carina Dragon

Geode Dragon - Stone x Green, Stone x Stone, Green x Green

Hellhorse Dragon

Risensong Dragon

Setsong Dragon

Shallow Water Dragon

Soulpeace Dragon

Storm-Rider Dragon

Two-Finned Bluna - Skywing x Deepsea, Skywing x Water

Ultraviolet Dragon - thowback limited to 1 breed

Dusk Pygmy

Jester Dragon

That's about 5% of the currently in-cave breeds.

 

I think if the throwback chance is sufficiently small (maybe 10% or less? Definitely less than what UVs are doing right now!) it wouldn't be too much of a bother to those who'd want the hybrid baby and enable additional lineage plans for those who're waiting for a *different* outcome. Kinda like people are already breeding multiple times to get their alt Dark Green, alt Black, green Spinel, tan Ridgewing etc etc etc.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Ruby Eyes
forgot Amalthean

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Wasn't it said that Geodes aren't actually considered hybrids, but rather alts? I may be misremembering ...

 

 

Yes - and I have never understood why - I assume it is because you can get one from two dragons of the SAME breed ? Which makes it NOT a hybrid, more a recessive gene, I suppose ?

[Shadowdrake]

6 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

That *would* consider the actual lineage,

No, because it would see a bluna whether it's from deep sea or water, and a shallow water, and think "oh these two hybrids can be bred from waters, let's try to pop one out". Negating that because one bluna is bred from a deepsea (or because they're both CB, in the case of thuweds) would be taking into account their lineage.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Shadowdrake