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HeatherMarie

Trading Hub re-posting limit per day

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First: I *know* this is bound to be a controversial suggestion and honestly it's not something that bothers me *too* much, but other people have talked about it around the forum and I've seen it in the Hub and I didn't find anything when searching so why not make a thread? 

 

Issue: Some (many?) Hub traders seem *very* insistent on their trades always being noticed quickly, and will cancel and re-make the exact same trade over and over again to keep it on the first page or the first few pages. This means that other, legitimately new trades may not stay on the first page as long because others are just constantly being re-made. I've noticed this with a handful of specific users especially, but they aren't the only ones. 

 

Possible solution: Limit how many times a user can recreate the exact same trade per 24 hours. The limit couldn't be as low as 1 time a day, to allow for things like changing your Wants or adding something to the trade, though I wonder if it'd be possible to differentiate those from the 'exact same' re-makes. And of course it would need to differentiate re-makes from legit new trades the user makes with different dragons. I feel like 3 might be a good number, only possible to re-do the exact same trade 3 times per 24h? Or even 4, maybe. 

 

I welcome any other ideas on ways to address this issue because limits aren't exactly my favorite idea to *anything*, but it's all I've got right now. 

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I support this for teleports that contain the same "haves" (the exact same set of dragons/codes), if there's a way to properly implement smth like this of course. Reposts being possible once in several hours or whatnot, or several times per DC day.

 

I admit right now there are times when I personally bump the trade fairly early coz I forgot to include an option/made a mistake in the description, or got an additional dragon I could throw into the mix, but I've noticed some ppl repost the very same trade all the time during their active hours--once in several minutes sometimes, without changing anything about them. It can be rather annoying tbh. Very often the first few pages end up including mainly the most active players, just rotating among themselves, and in order to ensure that one's trade even stays on the first page(s) a sufficient amount of time one has to join that leapfrog process, lol.

 

A limit like that could prevent this at least partly (I mean, I suppose one could still abuse this through "rotating" haves in case of trades with multiple dragons, but at least that's also limited unless a dozen items are in question), would encourage ppl to be more attentive about creating teleports and careful about their contents and requests, and would also reduce the need to bump trades in other players too because of proper exposure for all :) 

 

Edited by Tears in Rain

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What I'd prefer is that we get an "edit trade" feature where we can adjust our wants, if applicable. (Maybe you changed your mind, and maybe you got the 3rd offer you absolutely aren't interested in and want to clarify...) This should take care of most legitimate reasons for reposting. Others I can think of would be "needed to ward an egg/hatchling", "needed to influence in case I get to keep the egg", "decided to incubate", "dragon hatched" and "needed to stun hatchling", and even those could be taken care of if we finally could use BSAs on eggs/hatchlings in teleports.

 

That, plus keeping a trade that gets reposted as-is (or has been posted like this within the last 24 hours) being put in the place it would belong if not reposted should certainly do the trick. Not forbidding reposting, but making sure it has no effect on the trade's standing in the trading hub. Imagine the face of those compulsive trade-reposters when they realize that, no, reposting 1,000,000 times won't put their trade back on page 1. B) 

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To add to my rambling above, one of the points I thought of that forces one to repost (well, not exactly, but rather "recover" a previously existing trade) is cancelling a trade in order to offer the item in question on someone else's trade and subsequently either getting declined, or removing it at a later point. I suppose taking account of such instances as exclusions would be a difficult thing to implement within posting limits in place, but if it isn't implemented then I'm afraid that might discourage people from offering on other players' trades, only sticking to self-posted trades and hoping someone would offer. The latter doesn't seem like a healthy phenomenon for the market! :unsure:

 

Anyway, I'd like to see an edit button mentioned by @olympe, that'd be a lifesaver! Cancelling a tele and recreating it doesn't cost one an extra Magi as is right now, so that wouldn't change anything in terms of BSA use or anything, but would help one avoid unnecessary bumps when they're not intended.

 

I also like the alternative involving the trade being placed where it originally was in the queue during the past 24 hrs / some other fixed period, yes! That sounds like a cool way to go about it without millions of different scenarios and exceptions having to be considered ^_^ 

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2 hours ago, Tears in Rain said:

 

I admit right now there are times when I personally bump the trade fairly early coz I forgot to include an option/made a mistake in the description, or got an additional dragon I could throw into the mix,

 

 

Oh yes, I definitely do that sometimes too. Or every so often I'll realize 'maybe if I ask for something different or less specific I'll actually get offers!'. Those seem like totally legitimate reasons to repost. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, olympe said:

What I'd prefer is that we get an "edit trade" feature where we can adjust our wants, if applicable. (Maybe you changed your mind, and maybe you got the 3rd offer you absolutely aren't interested in and want to clarify...) This should take care of most legitimate reasons for reposting. Others I can think of would be "needed to ward an egg/hatchling", "needed to influence in case I get to keep the egg", "decided to incubate", "dragon hatched" and "needed to stun hatchling", and even those could be taken care of if we finally could use BSAs on eggs/hatchlings in teleports.

 

That, plus keeping a trade that gets reposted as-is (or has been posted like this within the last 24 hours) being put in the place it would belong if not reposted should certainly do the trick. Not forbidding reposting, but making sure it has no effect on the trade's standing in the trading hub. Imagine the face of those compulsive trade-reposters when they realize that, no, reposting 1,000,000 times won't put their trade back on page 1. B) 

 

Being able to edit the trade is a great idea. I do remember that being suggested/talked about before, and if I remember correctly there were a few concerns in that area but I'm not sure what.  I also *love* the idea of making a repost simply show up where it was before or where it would've been before (though I'm curious how the userbase as a whole would react to something like that). 

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Personally I often repost stuff as I try to offer my eggs to others in between and then they get turned down (what really happens often with me) or I mess up the description either by typing the wrong generation or doing other typos or mixing up whether it is a stair or checker or mixing up the breed names (because I'm really scatterbrained at times) or deciding for some other want (I often ask for some specific hatchies and the decide for something else as I notice I could use that better and then I decide for the first choice again). I guess it would be indeed cool if one could offer the trade one sets up as offer for another trade, too, then one wouldn't have to set it up again after it got turned down. And of course being able to use BSAs on eggs in trade would be extremely useful, too. And being able to edit the trade description as that helps getting rid of typos.

 

Edited by Astreya
Did I mention that I hate typos?

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On 5/13/2020 at 6:28 AM, olympe said:

What I'd prefer is that we get an "edit trade" feature where we can adjust our wants, if applicable. (Maybe you changed your mind, and maybe you got the 3rd offer you absolutely aren't interested in and want to clarify...) This should take care of most legitimate reasons for reposting.

That sounds great! 

 

But I still think generally your trades get buried in like 1 hour and people don't bother to check 2nd page or other stuff after that. And sometimes you might be looking for some specific things, like a 4g something x something lineage instead of something common like a Cheese Egg. So searching wouldn't help too much on that case. Or either we would have a "bump" button on the trade. You could only like use this 5 times a day, and it'll make your trade go up to the first page.

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If that were to happen - ONCE a day MAX, like in the threads here.

 

You can search by breed - that hugely limits what you have to look through.

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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If that were to happen - ONCE a day MAX, like in the threads here.

 

A limit like this could end up restraining people from canceling their trades to offer on someone else's. Because if the offer gets declined, under the "once per day" limit you can no longer repost, so better not bother... This can't be a good thing for the Hub and would reduce the speed of dragon "transactions" out there. Trades being remade for reasons like this (as well as influencing/hatching/correcting info/what-have-you) shouldn't be discouraged, I think. Reposts shouldn't be prevented--just limited to a healthy degree.

 

*scratches head* Yeah, the more I think about this. the more I prefer the suggestion where one can repost the same dragons as much as they like but the trade stays where it originally was on the list within an X time frame XD 

Edited by Tears in Rain

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3 hours ago, Tears in Rain said:

 

A limit like this could end up restraining people from canceling their trades to offer on someone else's. Because if the offer gets declined, under the "once per day" limit you can no longer repost, so better not bother... This can't be a good thing for the Hub and would reduce the speed of dragon "transactions" out there. Trades being remade for reasons like this (as well as influencing/hatching/correcting info/what-have-you) shouldn't be discouraged, I think. Reposts shouldn't be prevented--just limited to a healthy degree.

 

*scratches head* Yeah, the more I think about this. the more I prefer the suggestion where one can repost the same dragons as much as they like but the trade stays where it originally was on the list within an X time frame XD 

I can live with that last one. But we do need to put a stop to the people who endlessly repost their trade for no reason other than bumping it up - not because they used the thing as an offer or anything. MAYBE (here's a thought) have them displayed by age, like the AP eggs ? nearest to hatching/growing up at the top.

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2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 MAYBE (here's a thought) have them displayed by age, like the AP eggs ? nearest to hatching/growing up at the top.

 

That would make it difficult to see if there's anything new since you last checked the trades. Normally when you see "ah, Confused Cat's Mint egg that's on trade for 3 CB Golds with Z codes is still on the first page, just a little further down", you know you can see everything that's new.

Unless the Mint egg trade got bumped... So that's another reason to do something about the unnecessary and repeated bumping.

 

I do think bumping a post to the first page (ie reposting without change) should be allowed once in six hours or so, when a whole different geographic group of players is online. But every single hour? Nope.

However, if re-posting the same thing gets limited, we need an edit function so we can fix typos or clarify things without waiting for "bump-allowed time".

 

(I would prefer if everybody just realized how impolite and annoying constant and repeated bumping is, and stopped doing it without any technical limits being implemented.)

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29 minutes ago, Confused Cat said:

(I would prefer if everybody just realized how impolite and annoying constant and repeated bumping is, and stopped doing it without any technical limits being implemented.)

They already didn't stop it when there was only the forum and even easier to moderate ...

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1 hour ago, Confused Cat said:

(I would prefer if everybody just realized how impolite and annoying constant and repeated bumping is, and stopped doing it without any technical limits being implemented.)

Well, they *will* get it if reposting their trade doesn't bump it for 24 (or 6?) hours. Even if for different reasons. That's why I try to look at why people bump - and find ways to discourage bumping.

Reasons I know thus far and potential solutions:

  1. Editing your trade. Solution: Add an edit trade function. Or... just go with solution #3, it would work the same.
  2. Offered your trade on someone else's trade, your offer didn't get chosen and you needed to repost your trade. Solution: Allow users to offer things in teleports on other trades. If the other trade goes through, your own teleport gets broken - just like when an egg hatches. (Also: Allow us to offer on more than one trade. First come accept, first serve. Please.) Of course, solution #3 would work, too...
  3. Trying to bump your trade to page 1. Repeatedly. Solution: Since this is pretty narcisstic behavior, it should be culled. So, put the trade back where it was before being cancelled. Maybe keep the trade data for 6 / 12 / 24 hours since posting just to make sure it won't be bumped beforehand. And, as an evil aside, make it so that any re-post will restart the countdown. 
  4. You needed to use a BSA on your egg/hatchie. Your dragon hatched. Either way, you need to repost. Solution: I'd say solution #3 applies here, too. It's not a punishment in this case, but will allow you to handle things without either benefit (bumping) or penalty.

 

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I want no 2. SO much. Including the ability to be able to offer the same thing on more than one trade.

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20 hours ago, icearashi said:

That sounds great! 

 

But I still think generally your trades get buried in like 1 hour and people don't bother to check 2nd page or other stuff after that. And sometimes you might be looking for some specific things, like a 4g something x something lineage instead of something common like a Cheese Egg. So searching wouldn't help too much on that case. Or either we would have a "bump" button on the trade. You could only like use this 5 times a day, and it'll make your trade go up to the first page.

 

If there were a 'bump' button, 5 times a day is *way* too much. That's bumping every 5 hours! (Little less than that actually.)  I understand that some people get frustrated having to wait for an offer on their trade, I feel that way sometimes too, but being pushed to page 2 or 3 or whatever really isn't that huge of a deal. If someone is looking for a specific type of trade, they will use the dragon drop-down to search by breed or use the 'wants' search to search for something specific. I'm not sure I understand why searching wouldn't help for specific wants? If you (trader) want a 4g specific lineage, put that in the Wants section, and people can find it by searching. If you (tradee) are looking for a trade that wants a lineage like that, again you can use the search for it. I've done that successfully multiple times. 

 

3 hours ago, Confused Cat said:

 

(I would prefer if everybody just realized how impolite and annoying constant and repeated bumping is, and stopped doing it without any technical limits being implemented.)

 

Goodness I'd prefer that too. Actually I feel like that *should* happen at least every so often? Like, if the goal of constant bumping is to keep your trade on the 1st page, and you see others doing that as well, wouldn't it occur to you that others bumping their trades in that way may directly cause your trade to move to the 2nd page? And too many people doing that just makes a constant loop of those people bumping each other down the list? .... Sometimes I have unrealistic expectations of humans, I guess.  (general 'you' here of course)

 

I'm very much liking how @olympe has phrased the list and ideas, and it would be so AWESOME if *all* of that was actually implemented! I definitely think that limiting reposts in any way should come with the ability to edit your trade so users who simply want to change something aren't penalized for that.

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I suddenly want an edit option SO MUCH. I was happy not to bounce, but in spite of "Have" at the beginning of my trade, I have just had three offers of the thing I have (and one completely unrelated offer of 4 eggs - who on EARTH would...) and not one offer of what I wanted.... I had to repost the trade with some well selected capital letters, although I was quite happy to let it sink in the list.

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I would love an edit option. I've had to remake a number of trades cause I couldnt edit the trade afterwards, for various reasons. Plus, being able to edit the trade would solve at least a portion of the people reposting their trades. 

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I support the ability to edit, sometimes I forget to specify not inbred and get an offer with 70+ so I have to take it down to say this. Also helps if you miss details that can get you better offers (aka cb, or special lineages.)

 

I do agree that something needs to be done about trying to stay on the first page, the worst thing is when you put your trade up then suddenly everyone bumps theirs so yours never had a chance. Ironically if reposting was limited then it would reduce the need as you don't get bumped down by other people reposting. 

 

The problem is that reposting harms the playing field as if you don't repost you get seen less than those who do so it becomes either exploit the system or hope you don't get bumped off instantly. 

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The big issue with this is that everyone wants to stay on the first page. Limiting reposting would help - but people WILL find a way round it. Limiting PLUS edit would seem the fairest way - then if you make a mistake at least you can deal with it without having to wait.

 

OR make like the AP - have them listed by time left (where there are multiples, on the first item listed). Reposting wouldn't help, then....

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15 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

OR make like the AP - have them listed by time left (where there are multiples, on the first item listed). Reposting wouldn't help, then....

That's actually a brilliant idea, although I'd prefer not the first item listed, but the one that's the oldest. (Plus, ideally, prevent eggs in trades from hatching - after all, people will just exploit low-time eggs by viewbombing them to force them off the trading hub.)

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Ooo, I really love the Edit button idea - at least 80% of my trade reposts are me correcting my own mistakes or changing my mind. As for other motivaitons, I've started putting up trades offering CB misclicks/breeding fails for literally anything anyone wants to get rid of, and this has put me up against the bumping dilemma: I'm only on once or twice a say, do I repost a trade a couple of times in the hopes that I'll get an offer in the next 10 mins (after 30 mins it's off the front page and I'm gone anyway) OR do I post it once in 12h, get an offer when I'm offline, and then when I get back online and go to accept it the other player has already cancelled their offer and no-one else has even looked at it because it's lost in the backwaters? A combination of options off of @olympe's list could help solve that dilemma (by making it impossible to even ask myself the question in the first place).

 

The AP-like idea could also be super handy! We wouldn't be so frantically trying to get trades done before the egg/hatchling grows and it would certainly calm a bunch of players down.

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I'd like an "edit" button for text and offers, AND I'd like a "bump" button that shows up when my trade is more than, say, 36 hours old.

If I'm not around to hit that button, then the trade will stay in the back, but if I'm around and I hit that button (which would reset the trade time and thus also restart the 36-hour countdown), I don't need to remake my trade but can still make my trade more visible to people who possibly don't browse back to page 10 to see it. Plus, it would show traders that I'm around to accept any offers I might like.

Add to this a limit on public trades one could make per day (involving the same items) and the hub might move much slower than it does now.

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