Coronavirus Discussion

[olympe]

Another thing I noticed today: My local radio channel reported on a protest against masks due to covid that happened somewhere in the area. (I didn't pay that much attention. It was unbearably hot and humid, and it was my 7th day of working without a day off. Not to mention I had to pay attention to traffic...) Anyway, while the protesters mostly didn't wear face mask (as that's what they were protesting against), they apparently kept their distance, not to mention that they protested peacefully. However, the channel didn't tire of quoting a survey of so-and-such that found that 91% of our population had absolutely no sympathy for these kinds of protests. I mean, what the eff?

 

On the one hand, I don't like these protests, either. However, they did comply with distancing regulations and protested peacefully. Also, we do have freedom of assembly and freedom of opinion, so what gives? Especially in times where a number of people fear that our freedoms are being restricted, it's more important than ever to let them assemble to protest and make their opinion known. Stopping them would only confirm for them that our freedoms are being taken from us and radicalize them further. So, why on earth is our local channel trying to sway everyone's opinion by stating that a vast 91% majority is against protests? Why?

[Astreya]

@olympe

I heard that about the protest without masks but with distancing, too.

 

If they are allowed to protest and keep to the rules, then their freedom of expression is observed. If really 91% have no sympathy for it (I am surprised that it's such a high number, by the way. Who did the poll?), then on the other hand it is their freedom of expression to be displeased. Or did the 91% try to hinder the protesters to voice their protest?

[olympe]

Nobody tried to hinder the protest, as far as I know. Still, stating such a blatant number induces people to agree with the majority. Which is what I take offense at. It's an attempt of my local channel to sway the opinion of their audience towards "against protests" and/or "protests against covid are bad, no matter what".

 

Ah, found the link to the article about it: https://www.radiorsg.de/artikel/querdenken-demo-in-stuttgart-ex-fussballer-berthold-dabei-676975.html

Forsa, initiated/paid for by the RTL group.

 

Seeing some of their slogans, I'd love to start a counter-protest with slogans like "Mask or Tracheostoma - YOU Choose!" or "Health = Freedom" or "Physical Integrity is a Thing"

[Astreya]

@olympe

If the 91% number was done by a credible institute, I don't see why it shouldn't be mentioned.

 

The conspiracy theorists / anti-vaxxers / covidiots etc blow up their numbers by blatant lies and thus try to sway the opinion of others by illicit means, thus I think it is just prudent to steer against this, particularly if the counter numbers are collected by representative polls. (And frankly, if the RTL initiated the poll, I don't really think they did it to please the government - that would be more likely it if was the ZDF or ARD.)

 

I think everything that makes people thinks twice to follow the conspiracy theorists / anti-vaxxers / covidiots etc is definitely sensible.

[Lagie]

20 additional cases here, 5 on my island. The lockdown was lifted for the islands with no cases.

 

[trystan]

6 hours ago, olympe said:

On 8/7/2020 at 7:33 PM, trystan said:

in other news, Model projects nearly 300,000 Americans could die from Covid-19 by December - "The statement said that if 95% of the people in the US wear face coverings, the number would decrease to 228,271 deaths, and more than 66,000 lives could be saved."

 

note to 'murricans - wear your dang mask! (i mean, not those of y'all who do already!)

I must admit I'm amazed that they could calculate the number of would-be deaths in case of 95% mask compliacne to the single digits. /sarcasm In other words: The numbers can't be anything but either phony or quoted wrong. Sorry.

but see, if those numbers - the 66,000 lives being saved - get through to one more anti-masker, more people are wearing a mask.

 

i rang up so many customers who had their mask below their noses.  i'd joking mention their mask had slipped, they'd attempt to move it back, and then not care when it slipped again. *sigh* the point of wearing a mask is, well, wearing it....

[Astreya]

As of today, Monday, August 10, 09:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 51 (-1) active cases, while 358 (+1) people have recovered. All in all there have been 421 (+-0) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 8.5.

 

Currently 2 (-1) persons are treated in hospitals, one of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 227 (-24) persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 18 935 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen up to Monday, August 10.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

[Confused Cat]

My canton (part of Switzerland, population around 280'000) doesn't publish active cases, just the total number of diagnosed cases (recovered or not). I was shocked for a moment when the number went up by 17 today, when it had been around 0 - 5 per day during the past few weeks - then I realized the number was the first update since August 7, so it was for 3 days. Still a higher number than usual.

 

I'm currently waiting for two men who have been fixing some doors for us (outdoors), to talk about door technology. I'm not sure if I should invite them inside (and suggest we all wear masks? which would be weird, but should probably be the new normal?) or just stand outside talking with them, which would be rather inconvenient if we have to look at documents or write down stuff.

[Lagie]

13 hours ago, Confused Cat said:

I'm currently waiting for two men who have been fixing some doors for us (outdoors), to talk about door technology. I'm not sure if I should invite them inside (and suggest we all wear masks? which would be weird, but should probably be the new normal?) or just stand outside talking with them, which would be rather inconvenient if we have to look at documents or write down stuff.

Masks, definitely, especially if you have to get up close to the doors you are discussing. Then sanitize stuff they have touched after they leave.

 

47 more cases today, but only 3 of them on my island for a change. I am enjoying my lockdown vacation.

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Lagie
Updating

[TerraAnne]

   I feel like my state is slowly learning from Corona virus and at least staying leveled off with it for now.

 

   Some of my family are tiring of doing nothing and worrying about finances when they have serious health problems. I have minor asthma brought on by crud like second hand smoke, some perfumes, or chemical smells, and sometimes if it's just too cold to breath outside. We moved here originally so that I could get a job, but the corona stuff started literally as we moved. So I have held back on getting a job because pretty much my whole family is at risk health wise one way or another. I'm getting a lot of protest from my family who are saying things like "Upstate New York is in the clear now" and "There are plenty of jobs opening up". Yeah because people were getting sick at those jobs when the first couple waves of corona came through. 😕  One close family member is getting much less worried now and sometimes forgetting to wear a mask inside a gas station or walking too close to people who are hacking up a lung in a grocery store. They don't seem to realize how much stress that puts me in when I worry about not just their health but also mine. I hope I'm not being too paranoid going out, but I feel in todays time it is correct to be a little paranoid and keeping away from people.

[Astreya]

As of today, Tuesday, August 11, 09:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 49 (-2) active cases, while 363 (+5) people have recovered. All in all there have been 424 (+3) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 8.5.

 

Currently 1 (-1) person is treated in a hospital, none of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 205 (-22) persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 19 175 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

[olympe]

8 hours ago, TerraAnne said:

I hope I'm not being too paranoid going out, but I feel in todays time it is correct to be a little paranoid and keeping away from people.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're wrong.  

[Lagie]

Our Prime Minister and Deputy PM are both now in self-quarantine 'out of an abundance of caution' and the office is being sanitized.

 

44 new cases today. 26 of them are on my island. This does not bode well for our lockdown ending any time soon. And Inagua (another island) has its first case.

 

[Astreya]

As Duisburg, one of the German Covid-19 hotspots, is right next to us, some additional spillover has to be expected, particularly as there are quite some lakes in Duisburg, where gaggles of people already flocked to in the last days due to the heat.

 

-----------------

As of today, Wednesday, August 12, 09:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 56 (+7) active cases, while 363 (+-0) people have recovered. All in all there have been 431 (+7) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 8.1.

 

Currently 1 (+-0) person is treated in a hospital, none of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 222 (+17) persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 19 330 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

[Ruby Eyes]

Clearly, there are not enough lakes yet!

 

[trystan]

meanwhile today in kool-aid land:

 

one day last week, my boss left the office to head to starbucks. she came right back, mumbling about forgetting her mask. monday, she headed to starbucks, only to come right back because she forgot her card. today, she held up both mask and card before heading out.

 

when she came back, i told her about a post i'd seen here on facebook from a friend, asking how many of us get outside, take three steps, say a bad word, and go back in because you forgot your mask?

 

my boss says "it's so stupid, and there's studies that show that wearing a mask doesn't do anything anyway." not wanting to get into a conversation that would include me needing to look up information because i don't have sources that say masks DO work right at the forefront of my mind, i just conveniently ignored that part and mentioned something about my friend instead.

 

*sigh*

[Lagie]

57 minutes ago, trystan said:

my boss says "it's so stupid, and there's studies that show that wearing a mask doesn't do anything anyway." not wanting to get into a conversation that would include me needing to look up information because i don't have sources that say masks DO work right at the forefront of my mind, i just conveniently ignored that part and mentioned something about my friend instead.

[trystan]

oh I get it.

 

but *puts on Boss hat for a moment* "how do they know that? who says that? who's telling you that? they just want to sell masks.  don't trust them."

 

yeah. maybe i'll see if i can find something on... i know! Fox News.  she watches that.  if the Fox News website has a graphic like that, i'll tell her about it.

[olympe]

7 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Clearly, there are not enough lakes yet!

There never are. Especially not during a heat wave that has lasted for a full week. Covid or not, people will chase any way to cool off.

 

That being said, @trystan I heard about a study in Germany that mask half the rate of infection. So, instead of spreading it to 20 people, you only spread it to 10 (or whatever arbitrary numbers you want to choose). Since I heard it on the radio, I don't have a written source, though, much less in English.

[trystan]

6 minutes ago, olympe said:

That being said, @trystan I heard about a study in Germany that mask half the rate of infection. So, instead of spreading it to 20 people, you only spread it to 10 (or whatever arbitrary numbers you want to choose). Since I heard it on the radio, I don't have a written source, though, much less in English.

you may not know the answer, but do you know who did the study?

 

i can always mention the info to my boss tomorrow, because, as far as she would know, i could look stuff up when i get home this afternoon/night.  so i could mention that study to her.  i mean, i could always say i read it on a forum from someone who lives in Germany too.

[Ruby Eyes]

I don't know about a proper study, but there was one city in Germany which made masks mandatory 3 weeks earlier than any other German cities. Their numbers have been compared to cities of similar size and similar number incidences *before* the mask order, and the result is that the masks actually helped keep Jena's Corona incidences down.

German:

https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/coronavirus-studie-zu-maskenpflicht-in-jena-legt-schutzwirkung-nahe-a-5e89e1b9-ec6e-4259-991f-5dc962431884

English:

https://voxeu.org/article/unmasked-effect-face-masks-spread-covid-19

 

[trystan]

ooh, this is good, @Ruby Eyes! i'll bookmark it and be sure to tell my boss about it.  thanks!

 

and thanks also to @olympe and @Lagie for your info too!  work has been interesting, when this does get mentioned.

[olympe]

Sorry, no idea who did the study.  I was only half listening.

 

On another note, this is pure gold (in the shape of bull****):

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-08-11-20-intl/h_7e89efc0b521f8b104c0b7a399cc1246

 

“Since the end of July, the seven-day average for cases in the United States has fallen by nearly 20%, but the virus continues to increase in nations across the globe,” the President claimed, speaking before taking questions. “Last week, France and Germany both recorded their highest daily number of new cases in three months.”

Dear Mister President, let me explain numbers to you. Last week, the US had more deads by Covid almost every day than Germany had new cases. The same is true for the UK, but not for Spain (which suffers from rapidly increasing numbers again) or France (which doesn't fare all that well, either). The exceptions, btw, are Monday for both Germany and the UK and Sunday for the UK only. Considering that Covid kills around 5% of the people known to be infected, that should tell you a lot.

 

I don't have numbers for the days before, but the last two days, the US had more than 2.5 times as many new infections as all countries of Europe (including Russia, for some reason) put together.

 

While the numbers stated by Trump are mostly true, they are very misleading. No wonder there's a (not very common) saying in German to never trust statistics you didn't falsify yourself.  

[trystan]

2 minutes ago, olympe said:

Sorry, no idea who did the study.  I was only half listening.

it's fine, Ruby Eyes linked a really good study.

 

2 minutes ago, olympe said:

On another note, this is pure gold (in the shape of bull****)

...

While the numbers stated by Trump are mostly true, they are very misleading. No wonder there's a (not very common) saying in German to never trust statistics you didn't falsify yourself.  

yikes!!  also, don't you know that 23% of all stats are made up?

[Lagie]

1 hour ago, trystan said:

ooh, this is good, @Ruby Eyes! i'll bookmark it and be sure to tell my boss about it.  thanks!

 

and thanks also to @olympe and @Lagie for your info too!  work has been interesting, when this does get mentioned.

A couple of pages back is the Kansas counties graphs. That might also be useful (though it didn't come from Fox News  ).

Edited August 12, 2020 by Lagie
Newd? Really?