Coronavirus Discussion

[Confused Cat]

Congrats on the new apartment + living with GF, @Ruby Eyes!

 

Stupid Corona complicates everything, but living with one's favorite person at least eliminates the organizational difficulties of how and where to meet them. 

 

So... starting from today, the European borders are open even for non-essential trips. And tomorrow, my mother-in-law (who lives in Germany) will come to visit for a few days. I don't think it's very reasonable. I just hope no one is infected. *sigh*

 

[Astreya]

@Confused Cat

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that the visit of your mother-in-law won't bring any extra visitors!

 

In my place everything seems to be stable at the moment:

 

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Saturday, June 13, 09:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 8 active cases, while 250 people have recovered. All in all there have been 269 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 1.4.

 

Currently 3 persons are treated in hospitals, none of them in intensive care. 11 persons sadly died. 42 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 11 568 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen so far.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

[trystan]

6 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

On 6/12/2020 at 5:33 PM, trystan said:

trump supporters can read?  

It seems they just often choose not to read. Sample can be found just a bunch of pages back in this thread.

or they just read what they want and everything else is fake news.

 

and congrats on the apartment! (not so much on the delivery guys though....)

[Astreya]

It appears as if the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen wreaks havoc in the body in a way that hasn't really been seen before:

Quote

Covid-19 can leave the lungs of people who died from the disease completely unrecognisable, a professor of cardiovascular science has told parliament.

 

It created such massive damage in those who spent more than a month in hospital that it resulted in “complete disruption of the lung architecture”, said Prof Mauro Giacca of King’s College London.

 

In findings that he said showed the potential for “real problems” after survival, he told the Lords science and technology committee that he had studied the autopsies of patients who died in Italy after 30 to 40 days in intensive care and discovered large amounts of the virus persisting in lungs as well as highly unusual fused cells.

 

“What you find in the lungs of people who have stayed with the disease for more than a month before dying is something completely different from normal pneumonia, influenza or the Sars virus,” he said. “You see massive thrombosis. There is a complete disruption of the lung architecture – in some lights you can’t even distinguish that it used to be a lung.

 

“There are large numbers of very big fused cells which are virus positive with as many as 10, 15 nuclei,” he said. “I am convinced this explains the unique pathology of Covid-19. This is not a disease caused by a virus which kills cells, which had profound implications for therapy.”

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/15/covid-19-can-damage-lungs-victims-beyond-recognition-expert-says

 

------------------------

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Tuesday, June 16, 09:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 5 active cases, while 253 people have recovered. All in all there have been 269 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 0.0.

 

Currently 3 persons are treated in hospitals, none of them in intensive care. 11 persons sadly died. 34 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 11 824 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen so far.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Astreya

[casprrr]

On 6/14/2020 at 7:42 PM, purpledragonclaw said:

 

I'm glad your fever broke! Please let us know how testing goes.

Just got home after receiving my "deep nasal swab", results should be available in 2-3 days. No symptoms since Sunday so am not too concerned.

 

[Chicogal]

I'm in South Africa, day 82 (?) of lockdown. It's awful, I hate it, I haven't seen my boyfriend in nearly 3 months - will probably be 4 by the time I see him.

 

I hate all of this so much. This country is so damn idiotic I swear I am going to have a stroke if I hear one more word out of the minister in charge of this. Unemployment, crime running rampant. Millions losing jobs over less than 2k deaths - less than our murder rate. But the murders don't warrant a lockdown, do they? I already live in fear every day, getting infected by this is the least of my worries. I have a higher chance of being raped or murdered than dying from the Rona.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Chicogal

[RainDear]

16 minutes ago, Chicogal said:

I'm in South Africa, day 82 (?) of lockdown. It's awful, I hate it, I haven't seen my boyfriend in nearly 3 months - will probably be 4 by the time I see him.

 

I hate all of this so much. This country is so damn idiotic I swear I am going to have a stroke if I hear one more word out of the minister in charge of this. Unemployment, crime running rampant. Millions losing jobs over less than 2k deaths - less than our murder rate. But the murders don't warrant a lockdown, do they? I already live in fear every day, getting infected by this is the least of my worries. I have a higher chance of being raped or murdered than dying from the Rona.

 

My opinion, just my opinion. Not attempting to speak for anyone else.

 

I am glad for you that you are so sure this illness will not affect you. I have read of so many people who have survived the virus with organ damage that may be permanent, many that suffered with debilitating illness (too weak to comb their hair or dress) for two-three months or longer that I personally am afraid not only to catch it, but to give it to those I love and watch them suffer. It isn't just the deaths that are devastating It is also the drain on the healthcare system and the damage it may leave in its wake.

[olympe]

47 minutes ago, RainDear said:

My opinion, just my opinion. Not attempting to speak for anyone else.

 

I am glad for you that you are so sure this illness will not affect you. I have read of so many people who have survived the virus with organ damage that may be permanent, many that suffered with debilitating illness (too weak to comb their hair or dress) for two-three months or longer that I personally am afraid not only to catch it, but to give it to those I love and watch them suffer. It isn't just the deaths that are devastating It is also the drain on the healthcare system and the damage it may leave in its wake.

You're definitely speaking for me, too.  

[Astreya]

@Chicogal

Problem is that SARS-CoV2 doesn't seem to be under control in your country at all. If you look at the charts, you might notice that currently the numbers are still increasing pretty strongly:

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/south-africa?country=~ZAF

[Chicogal]

Of course they are - you can't expect families living in a single room to self-isolate and not work when the unemployment grant is the equivalent of ~$20 (month of average groceries being ~$150, not including power, rent, medication...). People can only survive so long with the unemployment rate expected to climb to 50% and a very very small tax-payer base.

 

EDIT: Apologies, I didn't mean to be callous, I just ended up venting... I'm sorry for anyone that has lost someone to this virus, anyone who couldn't say goodbye to their loved ones or is suffering themselves from it.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Chicogal

[Astreya]

@Chicogal

I can understand that there are severe psychological (and also very mundane when it comes to how to get the money to get food and other essentials) problems that arise from such a lockdown. We can but hope that there will at least be working meds that help treat Covid-19 if not a working vaccine soon, so that we are not absolutely helpless against the disease.

 

While many people seem to get through mostly unscathed, the problem is that it isn't a given, and when you or people around you belong to the persons who get debilitated by this disease and then can't work any more either and need to be provided for, then they are in dire straits, too.

A bit above I linkt to an article with a report what damages this virus can cause in a human body, and there is something else - we have no idea what kinds of long-term effects this disease can have.

 

E.g. if you look at the measles, many people consider this a harmless children's disease, which is done and dusted after the kids went through it. Unfortunately it is less commonly known that the virus can stay dormant in the body for several years and then return with a vengeance to cause the always lethal subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, which - according to a study from 2016 - seems to happen in almost 1 of 600 cases.

 

At the moment we know zilch about possible long-term effects (other than some effect that currently last for several months and are already debilitating, too), so it would be very prudent to avoid getting infected in the first place as long as there is neither treatment nor vaccine.

 

By the way, I heard in the radio today that in the UK there are studies where dexamethasone seems to reduce the mortality in Covid-19 patients, so we can see that research is steadily progressing.

[purplehaze]

President Trump appears intent on going ahead with his campaign rally in Tulsa this weekend, regardless of rising cases of Covid-19 in the area.

VP Pence spreads misinformation to try to minimize the dangers.

President Donald Trump this week pushed ahead with his plans to hold an indoor rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, even as public health officials there warned novel coronavirus cases in the area were on the rise.

As the president's reelection campaign came under fire for potentially putting thousands of people in danger during the Saturday event, Vice President Mike Pence attempted to paint a rosy picture of the pandemic in Oklahoma that contradicted data released by state and local public health departments there.

"Oklahoma has really been in the forefront of our efforts to slow the spread, and in a very real sense, they've flattened the curve," Pence told reporters at the White House Monday.

"Oklahoma is at a very low number," Trump said.

In fact, Tulsa had yet to shake the coronavirus pandemic, and the top public health official called an event like the rally "a huge risk factor."

(...)

“COVID is here in Tulsa, it is transmitting very efficiently,” Bruce Dart, the director of Tulsa's health department, told the Tulsa World. “I wish we could postpone this to a time when the virus isn’t as large a concern as it is today.”

(...)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-pushes-ahead-tulsa-rally-pence-misleads-coronavirus/story?id=71275621&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_related

[Astreya]

If the people from Tulsa had balls, they would tell Mr.Trump they don't allow his rally for public health reasons. But of course they all seem to be terrified of Mr.Trump's malignancy both in tweets and deeds.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Astreya

[Lagie]

3 hours ago, Astreya said:

@Chicogal

I can understand that there are severe psychological (and also very mundane when it comes to how to get the money to get food and other essentials) problems that arise from such a lockdown. We can but hope that there will at least be working meds that help treat Covid-19 if not a working vaccine soon, so that we are not absolutely helpless against the disease.

I think Chicogal is mainly missing her boyfriend and his support and hugs. Lockdown is hard on tactile people (like her) and social butterflies (like my 88-year-old aunt who is SO bored without company regularly that she's started dreaming about getting in touch with all her former boyfriends and asking me to do the internet research to find them).

 

Someone actually hugged me today! Unexpectedly. She's moving out of the country tomorrow. Not a close friend but it was still nice, and my first hug from anyone since mid-March.

 

1 hour ago, Astreya said:

If the people from Tulsa had balls, they would tell Mr.Trump they don't allow his rally for public health reasons. But of course they all seem to be terrified of Mr.Trump's malignancy both in tweets and deeds.

 

I thought that, too. Can't they just say no? But he's so vindictive, it's probably not worth it.

[Astreya]

One interesting question is whether people who get infected by people attending the rally might be able to sue Mr.Trump and his ilk for damages. They just need to be able to track down the source of infection, but I think one should definitely spread this idea around. The rally organisers obviously are afraid to cause and outbreak, else they wouldn't have insisted on that waiver, but it is the nature of SARS-CoV-2 to spread to further persons, too, and if they would be able to trace back their infection to the rally...

[trystan]

32 minutes ago, Astreya said:

One interesting question is whether people who get infected by people attending the rally might be able to sue Mr.Trump and his ilk for damages.

Waiver or not, you know someone will try to sue.....

 

but yanno, if trump says the virus is a hoax, why is he making attendees sign a waiver in the first place?  

[Astreya]

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Wednesday, June 17, 08:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 5 active cases, while 253 people have recovered. All in all there have been 269 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 0.0.

 

Currently 3 persons are treated in hospitals, none of them in intensive care. 11 persons sadly died. 35 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 11 925 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen so far.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

[Daydreamer09]

17 hours ago, Astreya said:

 

By the way, I heard in the radio today that in the UK there are studies where dexamethasone seems to reduce the mortality in Covid-19 patients, so we can see that research is steadily progressing.

I'm really glad to hear that there's been some headway. Honestly, I'm worried about in the US with our healthcare system that if a vaccine or preventative medication gets developed here that it'd be monopolized in a way that the average person couldn't afford it. We treat cancer saving drugs and treatments as huge expenses, I'm worried we'd fall into the same line of thinking with Covid19. If something gets developed in Europe, I'd at least feel more comfortable.

 

Today I went into my chiropractor's office again and I'm DEFINITELY going to switch to a new one. The few social distancing measures they had were all taken down and my chiropractor himself tried convincing me that it was better for my health to take off the mask I was wearing. Even when I tried ending the uncomfortable conversation, he took me aside to further talk about it. I know he meant well, but at one point I was tempted to point out he wasn't a PHD like the medical experts for the CDC who recommend using masks.

 

I've been getting a bit of backlash from my family too about wearing a mask out of the house. Even if I do it to help prevent the spread to others, that doesn't seem to be enough justification.

 

Any city or state that hosts Trump's rally is going to take a bullet and it's the last thing we need as a country when half of the states are experiencing a spike after reopening. I hate to say this, but I'm relieved he's not having it where I'm at.

[casprrr]

13 minutes ago, Daydreamer09 said:

Honestly, I'm worried about in the US with our healthcare system that if a vaccine or preventative medication gets developed here that it'd be monopolized in a way that the average person couldn't afford it. We treat cancer saving drugs and treatments as huge expenses, I'm worried we'd fall into the same line of thinking with Covid19. If something gets developed in Europe, I'd at least feel more comfortable.

Honestly, I would be more concerned that the Trump administration would refuse to approve any vaccine that isn't developed in the U. S.; gotta be 'merican, right?

As far as availability, I expect that any vaccine would be plentiful and inexpensive, like it is with the seasonal flu vaccine. After all, even big corporations suffer when their employees are sick and can't work, and shutdowns are no benefit to businesses trying to turn a profit.

[olympe]

3 hours ago, casprrr said:

Honestly, I would be more concerned that the Trump administration would refuse to approve any vaccine that isn't developed in the U. S.; gotta be 'merican, right?

As far as availability, I expect that any vaccine would be plentiful and inexpensive, like it is with the seasonal flu vaccine. After all, even big corporations suffer when their employees are sick and can't work, and shutdowns are no benefit to businesses trying to turn a profit.

Well, the businesses that are in the business of creating said vaccine will have their employees vaccinated. And can still sell it to outsiders (eg everyone not affiliated with them) for exorbitant prices. Let's hope they won't do it, though. Hopefully, international competition will be allowed - and force them to reconsider. But knowing Trump, he'll probably insist on an American-made vaccine anyway. After all, Europe is evil (and especially Germany) for exporting way too much stuff to the US. 

 

That being said, Germany has discovered a major outbreak this week (650 people, last time I checked) in another slaughterhouse (workers and the people they interacted with). I'm wondering whether it'd be a good idea to not eat meat for a while - or at least make sure it's well done.

[casprrr]

Already got my results, negative for COVID-19. 😀

[Astreya]

@casprrr

That's great to read! Take care and stay safe in the future, too!

[purpledragonclaw]

On 6/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, RainDear said:

My opinion, just my opinion. Not attempting to speak for anyone else.

 

I am glad for you that you are so sure this illness will not affect you. I have read of so many people who have survived the virus with organ damage that may be permanent, many that suffered with debilitating illness (too weak to comb their hair or dress) for two-three months or longer that I personally am afraid not only to catch it, but to give it to those I love and watch them suffer. It isn't just the deaths that are devastating It is also the drain on the healthcare system and the damage it may leave in its wake.

 

You are a wonderful person and your light truly makes the world a better place.  Thirded that you speak for me.

 

37 minutes ago, casprrr said:

Already got my results, negative for COVID-19. 😀

 

Congratulations!!!

[trystan]

3 hours ago, casprrr said:

Already got my results, negative for COVID-19. 😀

this is good news!

 

so - at the end of march, my brother was really sick, he had a number of symptoms that could have been a flu or covid, but no fever.  his 9-year-old son also had symptoms, including a fever.  it took some time, but they both got better - my brother even had the get-better-and-then-get-sick-again bit, too.  just last week, we went to the doctor for an antibody test.... and it was negative!  i mean, it's good he didn't have it, but what the heck was that at the end of march??

[Lagie]

7 minutes ago, trystan said:

this is good news!

 

so - at the end of march, my brother was really sick, he had a number of symptoms that could have been a flu or covid, but no fever.  his 9-year-old son also had symptoms, including a fever.  it took some time, but they both got better - my brother even had the get-better-and-then-get-sick-again bit, too.  just last week, we went to the doctor for an antibody test.... and it was negative!  i mean, it's good he didn't have it, but what the heck was that at the end of march??

This is a very interesting read -

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/great-medical-mystery-as-covid-19-long-haulers-complain-of-months-long-symptoms-1.4981669