Coronavirus Discussion

[purplehaze]

56 minutes ago, AsymDoll13 said:

@purplehaze Good luck to you and your hubby! ^^

I'm just a little anxious because I had a achy, feverish reaction to my second shot and I am supposed to be doing the turkey and pumpkin pies for Thanksgiving!

[Astreya]

@autumnbrandolyn

Good choice!

 

@purplehaze

I hope you'll soon be 100% fine again!

 

Germany as a whole now has a 7-day-incidence per 100 000 persons of 399.8 and counting...

Spoiler

Source: https://www.n-tv.de/infografik/Coronavirus-aktuelle-Zahlen-Daten-zur-Epidemie-in-Deutschland-Europa-und-der-Welt-article21604983.html

 

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As of today, Tuesday, November 23, 09:45 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 537 (+23) active cases, while 13 112 (+24)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 785 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 037 (+47) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 191.3 (+14.7)  / Incidence for NRW: 249.0 (+19.9).

 

Currently 47 (+34) persons are treated in hospital, with 4 (+1) of them in intensive care, 2 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

 

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As of today, Wednesday, November 24, 10:00 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 565 (+28) active cases, while 13 157 (+45)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 851 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 110 (+73) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 191.8 (+0.5)  / Incidence for NRW: 249.7 (+0.7).

 

Currently 48 (+1) persons are treated in hospital, with 7 (+3) of them in intensive care, 1 (-1) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 042 (1st jab, 70.2%) and 140 2896  (2nd jab, 66.5%) and 9874 (3rd jab, 4.7%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 18, 2021).

Source: Stadt Oberhausen

Edited November 24, 2021 by Astreya

[Kestra15]

Vaccines work.

 

[Astreya]

@Kestra15

Very good graphic! One picture often says more than a hundred words.

 

 

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As of today, Thursday, November 25, 10:00 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 621 (+56) active cases, while 13 204 (+47)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 903 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 213 (+103) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 204.7 (+12.9)  / Incidence for NRW: 262.2 (+12.5).

 

Currently 51 (+3) persons are treated in hospital, with 6 (-1) of them in intensive care, 2 (+1) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 042 (1st jab, 70.2%) and 140 2896  (2nd jab, 66.5%) and 9874 (3rd jab, 4.7%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 18, 2021).

Source: Stadt Oberhausen

Edited November 25, 2021 by Astreya

[soullessheartofsteel]

I survived the Thanksgiving rush at work without getting sick! I'm angling to get a booster shot sometime in December; I made an appointment last week but they straight up ran out of Pfizer. It was a bit disappointing, but on the bright side, it means that people are actually getting boosters/getting vaccinated for the first time in my town. I have J&J, work at a restaurant, and have a family member who works in a hospital, so I have to be a little more careful than most when it comes to covid safety. Good luck to everyone else trying to get their shots as well!

[JaneMcAsh]

Got my booster on Monday! Just in time for kids & grandkids to come for Thanksgiving - all (except the one that's not quite 2) are vaccinated  

[Astreya]

@soullessheartofsteel

That's great to hear! I hope  you'll stay healthy after the Thanksgiving rush, too. And yeah, here the booster vaccinations are a bit chaotic, too. I'm currently trying to get an earlier appointment, but so far I only got "no free date at the moment" from the scheduling database.

 

Update: Yup yup! Now I have an earlier date and can get my booster on Dec 23 instead of January!

 

Now Germany has sadly passed the 100 000 deaths threshold for people who died from this drat disease, and the incidence, case numbers and deaths continue to rise.

 

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As of today, Friday, November 26, 11:30 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 731 (+110) active cases, while 13 246 (+42)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 909 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 365 (+152) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 251.5 (+46.8)  / Incidence for NRW: 274.2 (+12.0).

 

Currently 60 (+9) persons are treated in hospital, with 7 (+1) of them in intensive care, 2 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 042 (1st jab, 70.2%) and 140 2896  (2nd jab, 66.5%) and 9874 (3rd jab, 4.7%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 18, 2021).

Source: Stadt Oberhausen

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Astreya

[purplehaze]

Concern seems to be building about the new variant first identified in South Africa.

https://www.who.int/news/item/26-11-2021-classification-of-omicron-(b.1.1.529)-sars-cov-2-variant-of-concern

It has many mutations, some of which may make reinfection more likely and may make current vaccines less effective.

 

Will this whole nightmare ever be over?

Edited November 26, 2021 by purplehaze

[purpledragonclaw]

Honestly? I doubt it. If we're ever going to be beat this, it'll be through vaccinations, we're two years into this and the virus is still mutating at a fairly rapid rate. It doesn't help that the richest countries are hoarding the vaccine supply, which makes it easier for mutations to happen in poorer countries. Then add the fact that there's an anti-vax population that won't take the vaccine no matter what, plus the politicization worldwide of this pandemic, and it's a veritable breeding ground for this virus. It's perfectly taking advantage of our weakness as a species.

 

ETA: purplehaze I thought you were talking about the Beta variant that surfaced in August, I can't believe we have another mutation in just three months!

Edited November 26, 2021 by purpledragonclaw

[purplehaze]

2 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

ETA: purplehaze I thought you were talking about the Beta variant that surfaced in August, I can't believe we have another mutation in just three months!

Omicron is what they are calling this one and it seems to be of even more concern than Beta.

You are 100% right about the factors that play into these mutations.

Were we seeing light at the end of the tunnel, or was it an oncoming train?

[Astreya]

@purpledragonclaw

While it is indeed problematic that the rich nations keep much of the vaccines and giving out 3rd jab boosters sounds like a luxury thing, according to a Swedish study it appears as if the protection given by two jabs seems to wane substantially after 4 months (two jabs Astrazeneca) and 7 months (two jabs BioNTech/Pfizer).

 

Quote

Findings: Vaccine effectiveness of BNT162b2 against infection waned progressively from 92% (95% CI, 92-93, P<0·001) at day 15-30 to 47% (95% CI, 39-55, P<0·001) at day 121-180, and from day 211 and onwards no effectiveness could be detected (23%; 95% CI, -2-41, P=0·07). The effectiveness waned slightly slower for mRNA-1273, being estimated to 59% (95% CI, 18-79) from day 181 and onwards. In contrast, effectiveness of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 was generally lower and waned faster, with no effectiveness detected from day 121 and onwards (-19%, 95% CI, -97-28), whereas effectiveness from heterologous ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 / mRNA was maintained from 121 days and onwards (66%; 95% CI, 41-80). Overall, vaccine effectiveness was lower and waned faster among men and older individuals. For the outcome severe Covid-19, effectiveness waned from 89% (95% CI, 82-93, P<0·001) at day 15-30 to 42% (95% CI, -35-75, P=0·21) from day 181 and onwards, with sensitivity analyses showing notable waning among men, older frail individuals, and individuals with comorbidities.

Study: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

 

Only after applying the third jab, the antibody response is going up again - and then even higher than after the second jab. We have no idea yet how long it will stay effective after the third time, though.

 

So you absolutely couldn't explain it politically to the populations of "the rich countries" that they should be mostly unprotected again due to the vaccine waning while they gift the vaccines that are widely produced there to other countries.

 

Of course you can consider it unethically that they think of themselves first, but they are gifting vaccines to the poorer countries already (even if this is possibly not enough yet). 

 

And mind you, mutations can develop in the rich so far doubly vaccinated countries, too, when vaccine waning allows the virus to stay in re-infected people where it then can exercise trying to evade the vaccines even better - sort of like not taking the proper amount of antibiotics until the end helps to grow more resistant bacteria.

 

As for B 1.1.529 (aka "Omicron variant")  - it already left South Africa and was already detected in and Belgium, so things possibly get more interesting and dangerous pretty fast.

 

As I like to say to people who are fed up with anti-corona measures - you can't argue with a virus and convince it to act more nicely. It will just take every opening it gets.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Astreya

[Aniia]

I am really worried about Omicron, because it sounds like Delta 2.0, and the US is barely handling Delta as it is. Plus, everyone in our area is so ready to be done with the plague that there's increasing social pressure to do things that I still consider unsafe. I'm probably going to miss some of my family's holiday gatherings this year because one of my cousins is raising her kids anti-vax - not just anti-Covid vax, but turns out they don't have the basic immunizations that all people are supposed to get from birth to age 3. All four of them got Covid in September, but haven't reversed their course. It's so tragic, I feel bad for their kids (who are adolescent now). 

[Astreya]

Two planes with about 600 passengers from South Africa landed in Amsterdam on Friday, and 61 of them were infected with Covid. Further testing on Saturday should reveal whether they already carried the Omicron variant.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/passengers-south-africa-face-wait-covid-19-testing-amsterdam-2021-11-26/

 

In Germany at least one Omicron case already has been detected, too.

 

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As of today, Saturday, November 27, 12:30 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 767 (+36) active cases, while 13 287 (+41)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 890 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 442 (+77) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 265.8 (+34.3)  / Incidence for NRW: 278.5 (+4.3).

 

Currently 29 (?? not sure about this number; a fall of 31 patients sounds unlikely to me; will check again tomorrow) persons are treated in hospital, with 7 (+-0) of them in intensive care, 3 (+1) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 042 (1st jab, 70.2%) and 140 2896  (2nd jab, 66.5%) and 9874 (3rd jab, 4.7%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 18, 2021).

Source: Stadt Oberhausen

[purpledragonclaw]

@Astreya I love and really appreciate all the sources and knowledge you bring to this thread. You've expanded my covid knowledge with your posts. I was referencing an article written in May that richer countries had bought up supply, meaning the poorer countries would have to rely on vaccine donations to meet demands. I understand this from not knowing whether or not their own citizens would need future vaccines. What galls me is when the U.S. throw out millions of doses because our supply outstrips demand. I won't even get into the factors that have caused this in the U.S. since it's been rehashed frequently in this thread, It's a problem in Africa as well, I know, but not for the same reasons as when richer countries do it.  

[Lagie]

54 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

What galls me is when the U.S. throw out millions of doses because our supply outstrips demand.

That's actually why they're considering booster shots here - to get the current supply used before it expires.

[Dragon Mage]

No, this will never be beat. There's no 'normal' to ever reclaim. This is just how things are going to be, from here on out. Permanently. I don't see why it should ever change.

[Astreya]

@purpledragonclaw

Throwing away vaccine doses as the demand is much less than the supply is indeed an outrageous shame.

 

The other thing that is morally dubious is how Germany donated quite some doses of AstraZeneca in September, mainly because here that vaccine was considered problematic here  and no one wanted to take it anymore. The linked article only mentions the donation, but not the underlying reason for it. But at least the vaccines were used.

 

And thanks. I just try to post proper information whenever and wherever I can to counter the huge amounts of misinformation that is around in the internet.  Plus I hope that being informed well leads to people taking the best decisions to protect themselves and their friends and relatives.

 

@Dragon Mage

Maybe it will be difficult to fully beat this virus, but with time people will become less "immunologically naive" as it is called - that is, the immune systems of the people will either encounter the virus or the vaccine and start to adjust. Additionally we have a fantastic weapon in the the mRNA vaccines that can be far more easily adapted to different virus strains than the classic vaccine technology, so I'm fairly confident that SARS-CoV-2 may not fully go away, but we will manage to get it under control in due time.

 

 

In Germany we may have enough vaccine doses in theory, but logistical problems hamper the delivery.

 

The old government (CDU/CSU+SPD with health minister Jens Spahn and Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel) decided in their infinite wisdom to close the over 400 public vaccination centers in October where it was easy to store the vaccine and then deliver it to masses of people. They thought it was better to let the hundreds of thousands of GPs vaccinate their patients. While this sounds like an okay-ish plan as the GPs are closer to the people, it is also harder to supply so many GPs instead of just 400+ vaccination centres, and so the GPs don't have the amounts of vaccine they need and many people have to wait for ages to get vaccinated or even are sent away to come back later.

 

The new government (SPD, Greens, FDP with designated, but not properly elected* yet Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz) is not really working yet and want to wait another 10 days how things will develop until they really take action - and they have yet to announce who will become the new Health Minister, too.  I really have the impression they always believe that the virus will sit back and wait for them to finally get going. -_-'

 

+) in Germany the people elect the governing party/parties (the federal election took place this September), but the Bundeskanzler(in) is later elected by the Bundestag/parliament (after the coalition negotiations are through, which they managed last week, but now the Bundestag has the final decision in about a week).

 

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As of today, Sunday, November 28, 10:30 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 783 (+16) active cases, while 13 322 (+35)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 797 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 493 (+51) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 254.3 (-11.5)  / Incidence for NRW: 276.4 (-2.1).

 

Currently 27 (-2) persons are treated in hospital, with 6 (-1) of them in intensive care, 3 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

 

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As of today, Monday, November 29, 09:00 GMT+1,, my home town (population 211 000) has 751 (-32) active cases, while 13 380 (+58)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 760 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 519 (+26) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 253.4 (-0.9)  / Incidence for NRW: 276.8 (+0.4).

 

Currently 28 (+1) persons are treated in hospital, with 6 (+-0) of them in intensive care, 3 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 042 (1st jab, 70.2%) and 140 289  (2nd jab, 66.5%) and 9874 (3rd jab, 4.7%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 18, 2021).

 

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As of today, Tuesday, November 30, 09:45 GMT+1,, my home town (population 211 000) has 739 (-12) active cases, while 13 430 (+50)  people are considered to have recovered. 389 (+1) persons sadly died. 779 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 558 (+39) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 249.6 (-3.8)  / Incidence for NRW: 285.9 (+9.1).

 

Currently 32 (+4) persons are treated in hospital, with 6 (+-0) of them in intensive care, 3 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

 

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As of today, Wednesday, December 1, 11:15 GMT+1,, my home town (population 211 000) has 748 (+9) active cases, while 13 503 (+73)  people are considered to have recovered. 389 (+-0) persons sadly died. 870 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 640 (+82) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 256.2 249.6 (+6.6)  / Incidence for NRW: 289.1 (+2.2).

 

Currently 42 (+10) persons are treated in hospital, with 9 (+3) of them in intensive care, 3 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 886 (1st jab, 70.6%) and 141 363  (2nd jab, 67.0%) and 16 909 (3rd jab, 8.0%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 29, 2021).

Source: Stadt Oberhausen

Edited December 1, 2021 by Astreya

[AsymDoll13]

I dun like this. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/01/health/us-omicron-variant-confirmed-case/index.html

 

I mean... I'm on the opposite coast, but... I dun like it. 

[Astreya]

@AsymDoll13

We already found some cases of Omicron in Germany, too. One of them was found in Düsseldorf, which is only 30km (20 miles) from my place. -_-'

 

At least I got my booster today!

 

When I wanted to show my Mom how all time slots for vaccinations were already booked in the 4 vaccination centres that my home town opened shortly ago, I stumbled over an announcement that they decided to open a fifth vaccination centre as of December 1st, and there all time slots were still open - from Dec 1st on.  So I hurried to book one of these Dec 1 slots and actually got it, before I cancelled the Dec 23rd appointment I was put on earlier. 

 

The only drawback was that this new vaccination centre is located on the other side of the town, and when I wanted to take the family car to drive there, the car decided not to start. Fortunately I'm always very early with important stuff and so I still had a full hour to get there which luckily was sufficient to use public transport to get there and I arrived just in time (5 minutes before I was due). In a way this was not so bad as that meant I didn't have to wait and just got in, gave the doctor my already filled in anamnesis and consent forms and got vaccinated.

 

Now I just hope that the immune escape ability of Omicron is not as bad as feared and the vaccines still work reasonably well against it!

 

At least all people in the buses I used wore medical masks as mandatory, which was quite a relief.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Astreya

[Uther_Pendragon]

  We got our boosters last eve, and I felt good, besides mild arm soreness, all day until a little bit ago. I'm now running a 102 fever, have massive chills, naus, and body aches, but can breathe fine. I feel awful and can't get comfortable. 
  If covid is worse than this, and could possibly kill me, then I'm very happy to have all the shots even if I feel crappy right now! I didn't have a reaction the first two times, I wonder why I am now? Could it be doing it in tandem with the flu shot? Hopefully this won't last more than a few days.

 

Of course, the husband has had zero symptoms all 3 times 😆 

[Astreya]

@Uther_Pendragon

I read in some places that there can be stronger side-effects from the booster. IMO it is possible as the booster shot gives a stronger immune reaction than even the second jab. I think I read about an antibody count that was up to twenty times higher after the third jab than after the second jab.

 

I got my booster (Moderna) exactly 12 hours ago and so far the only side-effect I feel is a sore arm where I got the injection.  After my first jab (with AstraZeneca) I also had a sore arm plus light fever and shivers on the day after the jab.  After jab No 2 (also Moderna), things were similar, and I also expect some fever and shivers tomorrow.

 

In my case everything (except for the sore arm that lasted about 3-4 days or so) was fine again on the third day after the vaccination. If you consider that some people have to deal with Covid-19 for many months and some even die from it, then the short inconvenience of the vaccination is definitely preferable. (My elderly parents didn't have much of the side-effects other than the sore arm, by the way.)

 

 

[Lagie]

Still no boosters here.

And we have a bunch of J&J shots that are about to expire, since people here decide they'd rather have the Pfizer ones once those became available.

[Astreya]

@Lagie

That's really not good!  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that you will soon be able to get boosters, too!

[Uther_Pendragon]

   I'll take 20 times higher antibodies! Thank you for the info, Astreya! I hadn't read about the booster possibly having bigger reactions, so was unprepared.

  At least I have nothing to do for a few days! I took some alka-seltzer cold, and seem to have broken the fever. I'm very tired, but will go to bed early. Still definitely all worth it.

   One of my acquaintances, with serious health problems, has long covid and it's causing so many issues, and I'm frightened for her. She was running into the "it's all in your head" doctor bs, until more people started having the same problems post-covid. I don't want it at all, not even mild or symptomless. I don't want to take the chance it can cause problems down the road. There's still so much unknown and I'd rather not gamble. 

 

Ugh Lagie, that's disheartening to read. What a waste to have doses expire. I wish people who can get it would just do it, and get it over with, with whatever is available.

[trystan]

so it's been 2 weeks since my booter, so i'm fully vaccinated again.  (until we need another booster, that is....  )