Coronavirus Discussion

[Uther_Pendragon]

Did y'all hear that covid is over in Tennessee? /sarcasm
 

Ugh, I'm FURIOUS with the governor and his covid omnibus law, it's all just so stupid and part of it is illegal (of course, he signed it anyway). He's also recruiting any law enforcement who don't want to be vaccinated to come to live and work in TN.

   School districts are not requiring a kid that tests positive to quarantine, only if they start showing symptoms. Oh, and most schools cannot have a mask requirement (though some are sort of doing it anyway, which is against the new law. The AG said they won't prosecute any teacher who puts the safety of children first, so it's very much a tug of war going on here.

 

 Thankfully, I can choose to rarely leave my house, and my husband works by himself, so isn't in contact with people, but my heart aches for everyone who is directly impacted by the idiocy.

  I feel for the healthcare workers who are and will be impacted--except for the medical and emergency type folk who are refusing vaccinations, there's a special place in hell for those who care for the vulnerable and choose to potentially infect and possibly kill them.

 

 I thought we'd be in a better place by now.

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Uther_Pendragon

[purplehaze]

17 hours ago, _Terminus24 said:

I'm not vaccinated 🤷‍♂️

Just for the reason that I'm epileptic. But really would not have any jab at all... (I have my own reasons not to)

Take care everyone! 

PS: I'm freeking sick of Covid tbh 😕 I don't know why I replied.  Just to let everyone now that I haven't had been vaccinated, I guess  Not a single time...

I don't suppose that anything any of us can say will change your mind, but epilepsy is no reason not to be vaccinated.

Have you been vaccinated against other diseases? Measles? Mumps? Whooping Cough? All those regular shots that are required in many places to even attend school?

So why is Covid so different? I think only because it has been so politicized.

Social media is not a good place to get your information.

We are all freaking sick of Covid at this point, believe me! And we could be rid of it or control it a lot better if everyone would just do the right thing and get their shots.

You take care, too. I hope you are at least taking reasonable precautions if you refuse to be vaccinated.

[_Terminus24]

I'm scared to be vaccinated tbh you can't trust those jabs FROM MY POINT OF VIEW... I'm keeping safe also. The risk of getting a blood clot with these jabs is very high. Sorry to those that have been exposed to taking a jab. That's all, everybody is free to do what they want 👍

Now then, I don't think I'll be talking about this matter again. I don't feel comfortable with exposing my thoughts. 

Nothing personal 😙

[AsymDoll13]

Very few people get blood clots. I have a clotting disorder and I'm still totally fine. I'm not sure where you get your information, besides some guy that talks about it, but... science says that it's safe.  I (As well as millions) have trusted those jabs, as you call them, for nearly two years now, and we're all mostly fine. Except for a small amount of people with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine from what I know. 

[HeatherMarie]

It's honestly really scary how fast misinformation can spread online and how *easy* it is to get those completely false claims seen by millions of people.  Everything you read online, especially when it comes to something as serious and life-threatening as this, *must* be looked into further before just blindly believing it. Someone posts a video claiming to be an expert or work in a place that 'knows' what is really going on... You have no idea who that person actually is, what their actual qualifications are, where they actually work. Literally anyone can post this stuff online. 

 

I very deliberately avoid most covid-related stuff posted online except verified data from our official city website, I think if you really step back and just look at the world it's easy to see that something is wrong here regardless of all this conspiracy talk. I have friends who have lost loved ones to covid, I have friends whose entire *family* has been hospitalized at some point in the past year. That's not normal, that's not just regular everyday health issues that people deal with every year. I've heard people claim that the flu is much worse than this every year but we don't go all nuts and order shutdowns and mandatory vaccines for that... That's just simply factually untrue and it sucks that people just blindly believe this sort of thing. 

 

Anyways, none of that matters to me in the long run. I got vaccinated, and continue to wear masks and social distance, not for myself but for my mom. I will take any and all steps that might possibly help her health and help her live longer and I guess that's the bottom line for me.

 

(note, I'm speaking general 'you' here, not speaking to anyone directly.)

[Astreya]

3 hours ago, _Terminus24 said:

I'm scared to be vaccinated tbh you can't trust those jabs FROM MY POINT OF VIEW... I'm keeping safe also. The risk of getting a blood clot with these jabs is very high. Sorry to those that have been exposed to taking a jab. That's all, everybody is free to do what they want 👍

 

Are you aware that the chance of getting blood clots from an infection with SARS-CoV-2 is several times higher than getting blood clots from the vaccine?

 

Quote

The risk of blood clotting diseases caused by the COVID-19 vaccines is significantly outweighed by the risk of clotting diseases caused by infection with the COVID-19 virus, UK researchers said last week.

 

An Oxford University-led study, published in the BMJ, provides the first direct comparison of the risks of haematological and vascular illnesses in vaccinated and non-vaccinated people. Eight research institutions collaborated in the project.

 

Researchers compared 29 million people after their first dose with one of the UK’s two main vaccines – the adenoviral Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine and the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine – with 1.76 million people who had a positive test for infection with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

 

They found an increased risk of thrombocytopenia (low platelet count), venous thromboembolism (VTE), and other rare arterial thrombotic events for short intervals after a first dose of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine and of arterial thromboembolism and ischaemic stroke for a short time after a first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. However, the risk of these adverse events were much higher following infection with SARS-CoV-2.  

 

Most significantly, cases of VTE occurred at a rate of 12,614 per ten million people infected with SARS-CoV-2– compared with 66 per ten million people who received the AstraZeneca adenoviral vaccine. For ischaemic stroke, they estimated there were 143 excess cases per ten million people who received the Pfizer vaccine, versus 1,699 excess cases for every ten million people infected with SARS-CoV-2.

 

Lead researcher Professor Julia Hippisley-Cox, a professor of general practice, said: “People should be aware of these increased risks after COVID-19 vaccination and seek medical attention promptly if they develop symptoms, but also be aware that the risks are considerably higher and over longer periods of time if they become infected with SARS-CoV-2.”

 

She added: “This research is important as many other studies, while useful, have been limited by small numbers and potential biases. Electronic healthcare records, which contain detailed recording of vaccinations, infections, outcomes and confounders, have provided us with a rich source of data with which to perform a robust evaluation of these vaccines, and compare to risks associated with COVID-19 infection.”

 

Professor Aziz Sheikh, from the University of Edinburgh, said: “This enormous study, using data on over 29 million vaccinated people, has shown that there is a very small risk of clotting and other blood disorders following first dose COVID-19 vaccination.  Though serious, the risk of these same outcomes is much higher following SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

“On balance, this analysis therefore clearly underscores the importance of getting vaccinated to reduce the risk of these clotting and bleeding outcomes in individuals, and because of the substantial public health benefit that COVID-19 vaccinations offer.”

Source:  https://b-s-h.org.uk/about-us/news/covid-19-infection-much-more-likely-to-causes-blood-clots-than-vaccines-major-analysis/

 

Here's an interesting article that takes a look at the possible mechanisms how the blood clots (here called "vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia" or "VITT") may be caused in the first place:  COVID vaccines and blood clots: what researchers know so far

 

Particularly the conclusion of the article was interesting:

Quote

Until now, VITT has primarily been reported in Europe and the United States, but researchers don’t yet know whether this reflects regional differences in susceptibility to VITT, or differences in reporting systems that gather data on potential vaccine side effects. In Thailand, for instance, researchers reported in July that there had been no cases of VITT after 1.7 million doses of the Oxford–AstraZeneca vaccine were given¹².

 

Nicolson says the number of people referred to his hospital with VITT has declined drastically: “We’re not seeing it any more, it’s almost stopped happening.”

Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02291-2

 

By the way, did you know that people suffering from Covid-19 may experience neurological symptoms? It might be wise for you to take all care not to get this virus as you have a pre-existing neurological condition with your epilepsy.

 

Quote

Like all six previous beta-coronaviruses, COVID-19 has the ability to enter the nervous system and causes neurological symptoms.

 

The angiotensin-converting enzyme 2(ACE2) receptor provides the entry route for the coronavirus to infect human host cells. These receptors are mainly found in the brainstem and are responsible for regulating cardiovascular and respiratory function. Like both the Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), COVID-19 may also enter the brain directly through the olfactory tract without the need for ACE2 receptors [8].

 

The neural pathway is a very important way for the virus to enter into the central nervous system. Viruses can travel into the central nervous system either by infecting sensory or motor neurons or by anterograde transport machinery, using kinesin and dynein [9].

 

After the invasion, the virus triggers reactive astrogliosis and activates the microglia to induce a large inflammatory cascade.

Full article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7521932/

Edited November 20, 2021 by Astreya

[Kestra15]

17 hours ago, _Terminus24 said:

I'm scared to be vaccinated tbh you can't trust those jabs FROM MY POINT OF VIEW... I'm keeping safe also. The risk of getting a blood clot with these jabs is very high. Sorry to those that have been exposed to taking a jab. That's all, everybody is free to do what they want 👍

Now then, I don't think I'll be talking about this matter again. I don't feel comfortable with exposing my thoughts. 

Nothing personal 😙

No, it's not.

 

You have more chance getting thrombosis from alcohol misuse, smoking, the contraceptive pill and COVID-19 itself (what with deranged clotting being a primary mechanism of the disease) than you do from getting it from the vaccines.

 

It doesn't even make sense to make that claim. Over half the world's population has now had at least one dose of the vaccine; if thrombosis was that big an issue as you claim, why have there not been millions of deaths and disabilities from it?

 

But hey, who cares about the truth.

 

@Astreya more like that's what the nurse gives in 24hr and that's only enough to keep the patient sedated and on antibiotics, let alone the rest... Also, nowhere near enough paralysis agents in that photo!

Edited November 21, 2021 by Kestra15

[Astreya]

1 hour ago, Kestra15 said:

more like that's what the nurse gives in 24hr and that's only enough to keep the patient sedated and on antibiotics, let alone the rest... Also, nowhere near enough paralysis agents in that photo!

Yeah, in the German article I linked, the infectologist  who explained what's on that twitter pic also said he would give a patient way more meds than you could see there. But even so I think this is a pretty good example.

 

By the way, I just stumbled over a Preprint of a very interesting study published in the LANCET that takes a look at the effectiveness of the Covid-19 vaccines over time. For those who are interested in scientific research:

Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccination Against Risk of Symptomatic Infection, Hospitalization, and Death Up to 9 Months: A Swedish Total-Population Cohort Study

 

Looks like the sensible people in my home town who wear masks when shopping and generally are cautious are outweighed by others less cautious anyway.  The general situation in of Germany is getting more dire, too, with 42 727 newly reported cases on Sunday (the RKI president Prof Dr.Wieler said in his last press conference on Friday that he estimates the real numbers about three times higher than the laboratory verified reports) and a 7-day-incidence per 100 000 persons of 372.2.

 

RKI Covid-19 Dashboard: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4

 

---------------

As of today, Sunday, November 21, 08:30 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 532 (+46) active cases, while 13 040 (+28)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 815 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 13 960 (+74) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 166.5 (+12.4)  / Incidence for NRW: 219.8 (+6.7).

 

Currently 30 (+-0) persons are treated in hospital, with 3 (+-0) of them in intensive care, 2 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 042 (1st jab, 70.2%) and 140 2896  (2nd jab, 66.5%) and 9874 (3rd jab, 4.7%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 18, 2021).

Source: Stadt Oberhausen

Edited November 21, 2021 by Astreya

[SomeRandomCorviknight]

On 11/21/2021 at 3:47 AM, _Terminus24 said:

I'm scared to be vaccinated tbh you can't trust those jabs FROM MY POINT OF VIEW... I'm keeping safe also. The risk of getting a blood clot with these jabs is very high. Sorry to those that have been exposed to taking a jab. That's all, everybody is free to do what they want 👍

Now then, I don't think I'll be talking about this matter again. I don't feel comfortable with exposing my thoughts. 

Nothing personal 😙

while there is risks to the vaccines, the blood clots are only with the astrazeneca, i thought? If you are younger, you'd be getting the pfizer or something i think...  And COVID causes blood clots at a higher frequency. Blood clots are rare with the vaccine. They are slightly more common if you are young, but astrazeneca is for >50.

 

 

While there are health concerns (that i personally also wouldn't care about considering they are so rare....) i wouldn't be worried about blood clots personally :0 

 

There are far worse consequences to covid, i'd say. Google "Long Covid".  I'd link some stuff but many are specifically located with my region or are just twitter threads that might have non-forum allowed content in comments - plus twitter isn't always trustworthy.  Vaccines reduce the risk of "long covid". 

Plus, herd immunity, and reduced spread is good

[Astreya]

By the way, there is one thing that is even less taken into account when talking about long-term problems from Covid-19. We only know this virus since about two years. There are some viruses that show up a second time several years after the original infection and only then work even worse havoc than during the initial infection.

 

You might want to take a look at both Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) and Herpes Zoster (Shingles). These are grave complications of measles (SSPE) and chickenpox / varicella (Shingles).

 

The onset of SSPE is about 6-15 years after the original measles infection and it leads to almost certain death.

 

The onset of Shingles (which can be excruciatingly painful for several weeks) can be many years after the original chickenpox infection, most often after a person passes 50 years of age and when their immune system is weakened as the varicella zoster virus lays dormant in the ganglia adjacent to the spinal cord (called the dorsal root ganglion) or the trigeminal ganglion in the base of the skull.  (By the way, since 2018 or 19 --depending on where you live and what your medicine regulator says--, there is a vaccination against shingles, which might not be a bad idea to get.)

 

Right now we have no idea whether SARS-CoV-2 could also hide in the body for years and then show up later and cause a follow-up complication.

 

This, too, should be a very good reason to avoid getting infected with SARS-CoV-2 in the first place!

 

---------------

As of today, Monday, November 22, 10:00 GMT+1, my home town (population 211 000) has 514 (-18) active cases, while 13 088 (+48)  people are considered to have recovered. 388 (+-0) persons sadly died. 783 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 13 990 (+30) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 176.6 (+10.1)  / Incidence for NRW: 229.1 (+9.3).

 

Currently 44 (+14) persons are treated in hospital, with 3 (+-0) of them in intensive care, 2 (+-0) of them needing artificial respiration.

There have been 148 042 (1st jab, 70.2%) and 140 2896  (2nd jab, 66.5%) and 9874 (3rd jab, 4.7%) vaccinations so far. (Vaccination data from Nov 18, 2021).

Source: Stadt Oberhausen

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Astreya

[SomeRandomCorviknight]

1 hour ago, Astreya said:

 

 

Right now we have no idea whether SARS-CoV-2 could also hide in the body for years and then show up later and cause a follow-up complication.

 

yikes... i know it's unlikely but imagine if that was the case... so many people have caught it these past 2 years

[trystan]

14 hours ago, Astreya said:

The onset of Shingles (which can be excruciatingly painful for several weeks) can be many years after the original chickenpox infection, most often after a person passes 50 years of age and when their immune system is weakened as the varicella zoster virus lays dormant

i had chicken pox when i was a kid.  i had a mild case of the shingles when i was only 30!  so the beginning of this year (since i'm (not all that much over) 50) i got the shingles vaccine in january and june.  

and then in october i got my flu shot

and last week i got my covid booster.

those !@#$%^& viruses better leave me alone!  

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by trystan

[Astreya]

@SomeRandomCorviknight

Exactly. I really, really hope that long Covid is indeed the only long-term complication of an infection with SARS-CoV-2, but right now we just can't say

 

@trystan

It's good that you got all the jabs from flu protection over shingles to the Covid booster!

 

Sadly for me it is too risky to get the flu shot due to my chicken egg allergy, but I really hope that in time there might be mRNA vaccines against the flu, too. As for the shingles shot - in Germany it is recommended for people over 60, and there I have a little time still. 

 

But at least I got my appointment for the Covid vaccine booster, which in my case is in the beginning of January. (Fortunately I got the heterologous vaccination with AstraZeneca and Moderna, which seems to have the best efficacy after six months from the various vaccination regimes.)

 

 

[trystan]

12 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Sadly for me it is too risky to get the flu shot due to my chicken egg allergy, but I really hope that in time there might be mRNA vaccines against the flu, too. 

boo! hope you're able to get a flu shot of any sort soon!

 

hubby has an appointment for his covid booster on friday this week, and he got his flu shot at the doctor's in.... september, i think?  lucky dude never had the chicken pox (my daughters didn't either, yaay!) - so since no chicken pox virus, no chance of shingles then, either.  

 

[Lagie]

They're finally discussing the idea of booster shots here. I'm going to see if either of my doctor relatives can pull strings to make sure I can get mine as soon as they become available.

[Astreya]

@trystan

Did your husband and daughters get vaccinated against chickenpox then? If not it might be a good idea as this disease is often more severe in adults.

[trystan]

9 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Did your husband and daughters get vaccinated against chickenpox then? If not it might be a good idea as this disease is often more severe in adults.

yes... yes they did have the chickenpox vaccine.  

[Astreya]

@trystan

That's great to read! Sadly I had to go through a chickenpox infection when I was a little kid as the vaccination didn't exist yet back then and thus I'd better get the shingles jab as soon as I get eligible.

 

@Lagie

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that you'll get your booster ASAP!

Edited November 23, 2021 by Astreya

[trystan]

@Astreya - yep! i had the chickenpox when i was 5, probably got it from someone in kindergarten. that was 1975.  according to wiki, the vaccine was available in 1981.  best guess we can come up with is that hubby hadn't yet had the chickenpox by that time, so he got the vaccine.  it was part of the battery of vaccines my daughters had to get when they were kids  

 

@Lagie - hope you can get your booster soon!  

[SomeRandomCorviknight]

@Lagie I hope you get it soon!

[Capulus]

 when i had covid i just had a runny nose and nothing more, well a runny nose that was slightly more worse then other times but still it was a scary thing to have, how severe you can get it depends a lot on your body imo, my cousin couldnt breath when he had it and i got it from him and i was more then fine, i dont knowthe actually research into it but i know for sure i didnt get something life-threating like a lot of other innocent people got.. my heart goes out to them and their family and i wish speedy recovery for anyone who has covid currently ( sorry if poor translation, my english is messy when i word it )

[Astreya]

@Capulus

It is very good to hear that you only had a mild case of the disease!

 

It is actually not 100% clear yet who is lucky and gets only a mild case and who isn't and suffers badly.

There are some risk factors connected to a more severe form of Covid-19, among them old age, obesity, diabetes and several others.

The CDC has a more exhaustive list here:  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-care/underlyingconditions.html

 

This doesn't mean that everybody with one or more of these risk factors will inevitably suffer from a severe case, but the risk for that is much higher (at least as long as you are unvaccinated). 

 

Unfortunately you are not safe when you are young, lead a very healthy life with sports and perfect diet - there were already numerous cases of severe disease and even death even among formerly very fit and healthy individuals. In these cases a so-called "cytokine storm" is a possible culprit which is caused by the immune system reacting too heavily against the virus:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7527296/

 

The biggest risk factor for a severe case of Covid-19 is not being vaccinated, though!

 

This is from the Ministry of Health in the Netherlands: "4 in 5 COVID-19 patients in intensive care are not vaccinated against the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2. The chance that a fully vaccinated person will end up in ICU due to COVID-19 is 33 times lower than for a non-vaccinated person."

Source: https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/4-in-5-covid-19-patients-in-icu-are-not-vaccinated

 

Here's more info about the underlying Dutch study: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210921/Dutch-study-shows-COVID-vaccines-9725-effective-in-preventing-ICU-admission.aspx

 

And here's an article in the Guardian:

Quote

Covid patients in ICU now almost all unvaccinated, says Oxford scientist

Exclusive: Prof Sir Andrew Pollard says most of those infected who are fully vaccinated will experience only mild symptoms

 

Covid-19 is no longer a disease of the vaccinated, the head of the Oxford jab programme has said.

The “ongoing horror” of patients gasping for breath in hospital is now “largely restricted” to people who are unvaccinated, according to Prof Sir Andrew Pollard.

 

Even though the more transmissible Delta variant continues to infect thousands, most of those who are fully vaccinated will experience only “mild infections” that are “little more than an unpleasant inconvenience”.

Full article:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/23/covid-patients-in-icu-now-almost-all-unvaccinated-says-oxford-scientist

 

The UK's Office for National Statistics (ONS) has a very telling article here that finds:

Quote

"Between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals."

Full article:  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand24september2021

Edited November 23, 2021 by Astreya

[autumnbrandolyn]

my biggest concern with getting my vaccine was the risk of mastitis due to sore arm as i am currently bodyfeeding my baby, but i just requested to have my injection in my leg instead. now i'm protecting my baby too

[purplehaze]

Hubby and I are going for our boosters this afternoon.

Hope others will be able to get them soon.

[AsymDoll13]

@purplehaze Good luck to you and your hubby! ^^