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I have now been taken, either accidentally or on purpose in a trade, for the second time, in the same way.

 

I have a hatchie i wanted to trade for a hatchie, and in good faith i trade it off, and have to hope the other person has influenced it correctly some try to trade off thier accidents and others don't worry about genders so its not something they worry about. We need a way to contact the other person in the trade to ask if it has been influenced properly, a way for recourse if they lie. As so many know you can not use the name they have on their scroll with the name on the forums, luckily this last time the person was honest and it turned out they just don't worry about genders so they didn't realize it would have been an issue and they traded it back.

 

If we can not contact then is there a way to make all eggs and hatchies show a gender on the trading hub so you know what you are getting into, whether they have gendered on the other persons scroll or not.

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We cannot have any form of direct contact on the board, because of TJ's job.

 

If gender matters, the best thing is to trade for a gendered hatchie or an influenceable egg. Or visit the "Hatchie didn't gender right thread."

 

But you weren't "taken" - that wasn't in any way deceitful, so I wish you wouldn't use the word for anything other than deliberate cheating. The trader didn't know gender mattered to you, had no said what gender the hatchie was, I understand, and was happy to trade back when they found that it did. But also - "a way for recourse if they lie" ? There's no recourse as such - you can't make the mods undo a trade, as far as I know. That would be totally unreasonable. Always look at the lineage of what you ar trading for BEFORE you hut accept. Other than ungendered hatchies - that pretty much renders it safe.

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Maybe instead of saying all these traders are cheating you, you should try paying better attention to your trades. 

 

No one lied if the gender wasn't discussed, they even took it back so what is the problem?

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I thought OP meant cases when you explicitly state you're looking for a certain gender and someone offers an ungendered hatchie. So you accept the offer hoping that your trade description was understood correctly and the dragon will gender correctly as well, but in the end it turns out to be the opposite gender.

Sometimes I accept such offers on my trades (I wouldn't want to bomb hatchies to gender because that's not nice and against the rules anyway; letting the offer sit there for a long time frame until the subject genders, forcing the other party to wait, doesn't feel great either; and declining the offer is kinda frustrating too, unless timing and gender are absolutely critical), especially from ppl I've had a positive trading history with and such. But sometimes stuff like that happens and I end up with the wrong hatchie I have no use for. It's not the end of the world, but it's unpleasant :P So, intentional or not, trade outcomes like these can be a hassle!

 

Yes, yes, taking the risk and accepting something that's not *exactly* what I requested (yet, hopefully, lol) is solely my responsibility and with the current system I accept that--no problem. But the whole thing is also a matter of trust in reading comprehension, good faith in people and stuff, you know? When you describe your wants and get a response, obviously you hope the user has heard you.

 

I'd love the possibility to have a private chat within a trade actually! To discuss the trade, ask questions, inquire about influence, ask one to mix and match, and so on. But I've heard such contact options are out of the question for some legal reason or whatever.

 

If a message system is impossible, in regards to the issue at hand I'd like it if we were able to at least precog dragons offered on our trades while they're still on the other party's scroll. That'd be cool ^_^ Actually, I'd like it as an option for any public trades, not just ones you created: if someone's initiated a trade with an ungendered hatchie, you can check what gender it's going to be. Sweet, isn't it?

 

 

Edited by Tears in Rain

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Everyone else pretty much addressed everything in this thread, but I'll put in my two cents too. 

 

While I like the idea of being able to contact users, TJ has already said we can't due to restrictions on his end. One of the other threads in this section did mention "pre-fab" messages to select--such as "You're egglocked," etc. I do want to note, however, that I don't support being able to contact a person because you are upset about a trade and want recourse--whatever that may be. It has been made very clear time and time again that once a dragon leaves your scroll, it's not yours anymore and that any trade/interaction that you do with another player is done at your own risk. This just seems like a gateway to harass other players, which is also not allowed in the game. Mods/TJ have enough to deal with concerning bigger issues like multiscrolling/cheating than trying to sort through trade disputes over whether someone really did mean to offer something that gendered wrong. 


I'd be okay with some way to automatically show the gender or use precognition on whatever is up for trade. 

 

On a side note, a lot of users have the same scroll and forum name. There's nothing stopping you from not having the same username unless it's taken or you don't want to. I'm not sure if you intend your phrasing to be as harsh as it sounds, but I can see why some people wouldn't want to be found/contacted after reading this. 

15 hours ago, borntobefree said:

We need a way to contact the other person in the trade to ask if it has been influenced properly, a way for recourse if they lie. As so many know you can not use the name they have on their scroll with the name on the forums

 

Edited by Jazeki
typo

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and everyone missed the little line on the bottom, I didn't know about TJs job before the post, so thanks for that info, but, having a line like the time left which indicates gender would be helpful, making someone wait 6 days to deny a trade, and a valuable one, or losing it, because their trade times out is bad too. I check every lineage and cb and time for them but the damn gender thing I have no way of checking. maybe make the gender identifiable but only to the one they are trying to trade too. And yes while this one worked out the first one was a case of someone being deceitful. No one should have to approach the trading hub in anything other than good faith, anything else is laziness and apathy for doing whats right. Why have mods if you are not going to make sure this is a good place to play. If the only reason you have mods is so no one says anything mean in the forums then you might as well not have them. Just oh well and wash your hands, let everything be a free for all then.

 

so when you click on the egg/hatchie you see time left and can get its lineage or check to see if its in fact a cb, add a gender to the first page, if its an egg and its under 3 days you can't influence either so it would help with eggs and ungendered hatchies. or maybe give the aeon ability to identify gender on the trading page too. althoughtcthat seems a bit hard to code.

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There's never going to be something to indicate sex on an ungendered hatchie, I think. I think the only workable answer to this - for those to whom it matters SO much - is to be able to use our own Aeons on eggs we hope to trade for - ONLY on hatchies/eggs already in trade, though. And never to forget that influence does not hold up through teleportation, so there's no point except on S1 hatchies.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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40 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I think the only workable answer to this - for those to whom it matters SO much - is to be able to use our own Aeons on eggs we hope to trade for - ONLY on hatchies/eggs already in trade, though. And never to forget that influence does not hold up through teleportation, so there's no point except on S1 hatchies.

 

I like this idea. S1 hatchies are the only trades for which you would really need that information anyway.

 

The other thing that would help--as with everything else in the Trade Hub--would be increasing the length of the trade text box. It sounds like borntobefree didn't specifically request a hatchling gendered a certain way, just assumed it was understood that they only wanted a hatchling if it was influenced the proper way for a stairstep or checker or so on. (Seeing as how the trader, when contacted, hadn't realized they cared about the gender and took the trade back.) If the trade text box was any bigger than a postage stamp, the OP could have specificed "(egg or male hatchling)" and not run into this problem.

 

 

 

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While it would definitely be nice to have a larger text box, I have to admire how skillful some of the more experienced traders are at using abbreviations and language to describe what they have and/or want.  Perhaps it would be of benefit to some of the players if there were a link on the first page of the Trade Hub that would lead to a list of helpful "how to's." and instructions.

 

In general, we can only remember that almost all players trade honestly but all you can know about a trade is what you see in the offer.  And remember the old adage: "When in doubt, don't."

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I'd be all right with aeons being able to precog S1's. 

 

Regarding the rest, the mods are mostly for the forum as that's where most interaction takes place. It's TJ's site, after all. If you want someone to address your claim that you are being taken advantage of, your best idea is to PM one of them with evidence. On the site, mods mostly handle descriptions and dealing with reports regarding problems in the trading hub, like if I put "My favorite food is cheese and I love cats" or just tons of emojis where trade info should go. The trading rules, though they could be expanded upon, are fairly self-explanatory. If you're specific, there's not a lot of room for error.  Or you can just post your trade here on the forum and ask people to PM you directly with questions. 

 

Message

Describe what you’re offering and/or help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. If creating a public trade, your message should be applicable to many people using the trading hub, not just a specific person.

Warning: Use of trading messages for any purpose except those stated above may result in disciplinary action, such as loss of ability to create public trades. Off-site links are forbidden.

Edited by Jazeki

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9 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

. If you're specific, there's not a lot of room for error.  Or you can just post your trade here on the forum and ask people to PM you directly with questions. 

 

 

This, actually.If you have very detailed/precise requirements, that's the way to go.

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2 hours ago, Stormcaller said:

I have to admire how skillful some of the more experienced traders are at using abbreviations and language to describe what they have and/or want.

 

It's a double edged sword though. Newbies and those who don't speak English perfectly skip right past the densely abbreviated jargon even if they have what you want. I often find that I get more of the offers I want if I just ask for a "valentine dragon" instead of a "2g V09/sweet/RA w names." I mean, not just any old offers-- I'm actually more likely to get specifically offered a 2nd-gen radiant angel with named parents if I ask for just a "valentine dragon"! There are a lot of people on the trade hub who don't know how to decipher the telegram style posts...

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8 hours ago, Tears in Rain said:

If a message system is impossible, in regards to the issue at hand I'd like it if we were able to at least precog dragons offered on our trades while they're still on the other party's scroll. That'd be cool ^_^ Actually, I'd like it as an option for any public trades, not just ones you created: if someone's initiated a trade with an ungendered hatchie, you can check what gender it's going to be. Sweet, isn't it?

I was just going to bring that up myself - until I realized I was too late. :) Yes, please to repurposing "Precognition" that way. It'd make the BSA much more helpful than it is, instead of making it a half-worthless alternative to Influence.

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1 hour ago, tjekan said:

There are a lot of people on the trade hub who don't know how to decipher the telegram style posts...

 

That's why I think a link to a page of instructions would be a good idea. 

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I think if people wanted to read a text explaining the abbreviations and jargon to them, they would probably already have found the forum and figured that out. It's the people who can't or don't want to read a glossary and decipher abbreviations who skip complicated looking trades.

 

What i'd really like to see would be a short trade text, maybe even shorter than what we've got know, with an optional link "more trade details" to a much larger box. Then I could post that I want a Valentine dragon, which is easy enough to read for anyone, but savvier traders who want more info could click on "more trade details" to see exactly what I wanted, like only common mates and no eggs over 5 days 12 hours and parent names shorter than one line. That way people could interest both the low-info and high-info traders, instead of having to choose. I know I would click through to the details on any trade that really interested me...

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I honestly really hate when people insist a trader has lied or been purposefully deceitful. Unless you specifically talked to them over PM or such, and they admitted or otherwise confirmed it, you have *no* way of knowing for sure what *any* trader (or offerer) is thinking. I never think about gender when offering on a trade, or making one. Unless the trader specifically mentions 'only (gender)' or similar I just don't think about it, because that's not how I play and unless someone is stating it specifically it doesn't occur to me that they might be *assuming* the offer will correctly gender. Am I being deceitful? No. 

 

Also, the trading hub really is an 'at your own risk' sort of deal. Any trade is, actually. Most people know enough to check lineages before they offer, or accept an offer, but some people even get salty about lineages even though there is a link right there to see them. Most people know that if they *really* want a specific gender, they either need to only offer on already-gendered hatchies, or look for trades that specifically say 'precogged (gender)' or whatever. It's really not the trader's responsibility to make sure you aren't assuming something or reading into something that isn't actually there. 

 

That said. I wouldn't mind being able to precog Trading Hub dragons. But I certainly don't see any reason for punishment/recourse/etc when it comes to this sort of thing. (And, of course, I'm *always* pushing for more space in the text box!!)

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10 hours ago, olympe said:

I was just going to bring that up myself - until I realized I was too late. :) Yes, please to repurposing "Precognition" that way. It'd make the BSA much more helpful than it is, instead of making it a half-worthless alternative to Influence.

 

During low times walls it is actually a godsend; you don't waste time incuhatching stuff that you won't be able to use.

 

4 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I honestly really hate when people insist a trader has lied or been purposefully deceitful. Unless you specifically talked to them over PM or such, and they admitted or otherwise confirmed it, you have *no* way of knowing for sure what *any* trader (or offerer) is thinking. I never think about gender when offering on a trade, or making one. Unless the trader specifically mentions 'only (gender)' or similar I just don't think about it, because that's not how I play and unless someone is stating it specifically it doesn't occur to me that they might be *assuming* the offer will correctly gender. Am I being deceitful? No. 

 

I SO agree with this.

 

4 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

Also, the trading hub really is an 'at your own risk' sort of deal. Any trade is, actually. Most people know enough to check lineages before they offer, or accept an offer, but some people even get salty about lineages even though there is a link right there to see them. Most people know that if they *really* want a specific gender, they either need to only offer on already-gendered hatchies, or look for trades that specifically say 'precogged (gender)' or whatever. It's really not the trader's responsibility to make sure you aren't assuming something or reading into something that isn't actually there. 

 

That said. I wouldn't mind being able to precog Trading Hub dragons. But I certainly don't see any reason for punishment/recourse/etc when it comes to this sort of thing. (And, of course, I'm *always* pushing for more space in the text box!!)

 

And with this too - though I can very much live with the box as it stands. I never understand why people detail what they have. I suppose "2g" or something is useful, but quite often when you LOOK, it isn't (a lot of people don't seem to know what that means - I actually PMd someone once and asked if they listed the wrong egg.... No, they had thought 2g meant something else.) Anyone wanting to trade can - and always should - look at the lineage.

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13 hours ago, tjekan said:

I like this idea. S1 hatchies are the only trades for which you would really need that information anyway.

On eggs with 3 days or less, you would need it as well.

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1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

On eggs with 3 days or less, you would need it as well.

Indeed, but if that egg had been influenced on the user's scroll before it hit 3 days, teleporting it will drop the influence and "reroll" the future gender, rendering precog information misleading. I guess if the expanded BSA could be implemented in a way so as to detect that stuff (as in, show the precog'd gender in case of non-influenced eggs and display something like "unknown" or whatever for influenced ones), that'd work, but otherwise it would cause wrong predictions and confusion.

 

Even for higher time eggs that are added to trade with prior Influence, I can see the scenario, "Hey, precog said that the egg I was offered would be male (what I wanted) so I didn't influence it upon receiving it, but now it gendered female. Huh?"

 

Edited by Tears in Rain

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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

During low times walls it is actually a godsend; you don't waste time incuhatching stuff that you won't be able to use.

If an egg is at the point where your would need to precog to make sure it's the right gender, you wouldn't need to incuhatch it in the first place :P

 

Agreed with pretty much everyone here; I'd support being able to use your own Aeons to precog an OFFER on your existing trade. I'm not sold on precogging someone else's trade, but I don't see an immediate harm in it. And if the hatchling was precogged or influenced by the owner, I'd support showing the result somewhere.

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9 minutes ago, Keileon said:

If an egg is at the point where your would need to precog to make sure it's the right gender, you wouldn't need to incuhatch it in the first place :P

 

Agreed with pretty much everyone here; I'd support being able to use your own Aeons to precog an OFFER on your existing trade. I'm not sold on precogging someone else's trade, but I don't see an immediate harm in it. And if the hatchling was precogged or influenced by the owner, I'd support showing the result somewhere.

 

Yes, but when there are loads of things, it's handy to be able to hatch and grab at a rate of knots. I know holidays don't count (except Hollies and Mistles) but I incuhatched LOADS of very low timed eggs from the val wall, so that I could pick up more.

 

I don't think precog should be usable on any other scroll except for offers on your trades. Then again, the CD would mean people couldn't go overboard on it anyway. But NOT for just going to another scroll and using it.

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I think what they mean is that you can't incubate anymore anyway ("incuhatch"). At that point it turns into instahatch XD

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6 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

I think what they mean is that you can't incubate anymore anyway ("incuhatch"). At that point it turns into instahatch XD

While that is technically true, @Fuzzbucket's points about wasting time still stands.

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