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_DeadPool_

Consolation Shards and Market Improvements

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10 hours ago, Stormcaller said:

I really don't get how anyone would feel the need for a consolation prize. The only requirements are (this month) to hatch 6 eggs and click a link to enter. If you're playing the game, it's just no big deal. IMHO, the raffle is a nice addition to the game but nothing to get upset about if you don't win. If everybody won, there would be no point now, would there?

 

8 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

I'm not going to be upset if something like this happens, but I don't see the point in participation trophies. You win or you don't. Same as everything else in lofe.

 

I agree so much with  these two... Play the game, there's a 90% chance you will meet the requirement just by chance, and then you might be lucky. We don't need a double helping of shards just for playing - which is effectively what is being asked for.

 

5 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

And hey, thinking about that 100-per-week cap, I'm curious if 'winning' extra shards through the raffle would affect the Market prices? TJ said in the beginning that the general idea was that one week's worth of shards is equal to one common egg (the 100-priced ones). If hundreds of people are suddenly getting extra shards through losing the raffle, that will affect how long it takes to get to certain price-points, and how often you can buy the rarest breeds. Which logically would mean the Market prices would be tweaked to keep the rarer breeds in that same general time-frame of earning. 

 

A VERY good point. There's no point in extra shards if the price of that balloon egg you thought you'd buy then shoots up to 500...

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6 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I guess this is where I simply see things differently. The reward for having met the requirements is, uh, entering the raffle. The *chance* to get that Prize. On top of those requirements being actual new dragons on your scroll (ie, you raise 3 dragons to meet the requirement, that's 3 more dragons you have!). 

 

I agree with this a lot.

The "payment" of hatching 3 eggs to enter the raffle, for example, is not the payment to get a CB Prize, but rather a payment for a ticket in the CB Prize lottery- which is random.

It doesn't make much sense if people buying lottery tickets asked for consolation if they didn't win, when they know that participating in a lottery is a gamble.

Besides, after the first few months, when the excitement has worn off, seeing the 100 shards won't make much of a difference to help with the discouragement as you will expect those 100 shards every month and get used to them eventually.

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1 hour ago, Dohaerys said:

I agree with this a lot.

The "payment" of hatching 3 eggs to enter the raffle, for example, is not the payment to get a CB Prize

 

 

SO true. It is also not the payment for 100 shards.

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3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

A VERY good point. There's no point in extra shards if the price of that balloon egg you thought you'd buy then shoots up to 500...

Well, they are at 400 which is not too far away from 500 ... What's your point with this example?

 

Considering the number of common breeds and how many of them are at 100 shards even though they should be only at TEN because they are so frigging underpopulated that it's nigh impossible to breed anything ELSE (at 100 shards, too!) from them, I don't actually see the risk of TJ swooping in and changing formulas based on extra shards when he hasn't done so to account for new or otherwise underpopulated breeds.

 

I say, let the consolation shards be 10. Or maybe 11 because it's one more than 10 so it's MUCH better. :D

 

(And I still want to get that one code I've been longing for ... I think I'd put it on a Spitfire.)

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26 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Well, they are at 400 which is not too far away from 500 ... What's your point with this example?

 

:lol: The last time I bought one for a trade (wait - I never actually had to; I caught one just in time) they were well lower than that ! I haven't looked lately.

 

But no, we should not get a consolation every time we don't win. It's daft. Can't bear losing - don't enter. The result is the same - you get nothing, but without the anticipation.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

:lol: The last time I bought one for a trade (wait - I never actually had to; I caught one just in time)

 

Sorry for not actually contributing to the topic, but I wouldn't want anybody to read this and get the wrong idea: market-bought eggs can't be traded, correct?

There have been trades for which I would have considered buying a CB Gold, but I always remembered "wait, no, that wouldn't even work"...

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No indeed they can't - I was VERY relieved when I caught one and a few minutes later realised how stupid I had almost been !

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7 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

 

Considering the number of common breeds and how many of them are at 100 shards even though they should be only at TEN because they are so frigging underpopulated that it's nigh impossible to breed anything ELSE (at 100 shards, too!) from them, I don't actually see the risk of TJ swooping in and changing formulas based on extra shards when he hasn't done so to account for new or otherwise underpopulated breeds.

 

 

I'm not sure what the issue is here? The baseline for Market eggs is 100 shards. The most common breeds are 100. They don't go lower than that, no matter how 'extra'-common the breed may seem. I don't think that TJ's inaction about something that seems to be a deliberate decision has anything to do with the possibility of extra shards affecting Market prices. Super-common prices don't change because 100 is the lowest possible price; On the other hand, rarer dragon's prices *do* change based on certain factors, we've seen them change many times, so it seems like it would be a good idea to actually know if an increase in shard-earnings would be something that would change those prices. 

 

(I'll just put this out there as a random thought I had: If consolation shards are given for not winning the raffle, maybe it would make sense to give the number of shards you would've earned if you *had* won the raffle? Like, if you win the raffle and get a Prize dragon, you will earn a certain number of shards by hatching that egg and then growing the hatchling (I believe it's 3 shards for hatch and 3 for grow?). .... I dunno, it was just a random thought.)

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So, 6 shards? That sounds even more pointless. As you just pointed out the minimum price is 100. You cant do anything with just 6.

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It's all pointless. Play the game, enter or not; win - great; don't win, carry on playing.

 

Simples, no ?

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Really, I don't see a reason for consolation prizes. If you enter a charity raffle you don't demand a consolation prize if you don't win. And you paid for that with real money. This, all you did was raise a few dragons, which you most likely would have raised anyway. Didn't win? Fine, you play again next month. Maybe you win someday and maybe you don't, but that is the way raffles go. I admit I am always a bit let down when I see the fail message, but I don't think a consolation prize would help much with that. I want a CB Prize, not some lesser thing. And so I will keep entering and hoping. :)

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Uh. No to all of these from me:

 

1. Not everyone uses the market. You can't even buy prizes in the market. Or, you still won't always be able to afford the thing you want (even with shards). 

 

2. Not everyone wants to change their username. If you change your name, you automatically miss out on being able to buy dragons you might want because you don't have enough shards anymore. You shouldn't have to choose between buying dragons and changing your username.

 

3. Codes are limited. Someone might also (and does, at least for me) have the code you want. Can't buy what's not available.

 

4. One free egg from the market would mess with gameplay as the game tries to match the ratios. You can bet I (and probably many others) would choose a free rare every month and you can bet prices would probably skyrocket.

 

TLDR: I continue to enter the raffle to try and win a prize dragon. I don't want to be rewarded with a consolation prize that's not even remotely close to being a prize dragon. The only thing I continue to support as a consolation prize are the honorable mentions of olden times: CB alts and hybrids or past holidays. But TJ has said no to HMs ever coming back.

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1 minute ago, Jazeki said:

Uh. No to all of these from me:

 

1. Not everyone uses the market. You can't even buy prizes in the market. Or, you still won't always be able to afford the thing you want (even with shards). 

 

2. Not everyone wants to change their username. If you change your name, you automatically miss out on being able to buy dragons you might want because you don't have enough shards anymore. You shouldn't have to choose between buying dragons and changing your username.

 

3. Codes are limited. Someone might also (and does, at least for me) have the code you want. Can't buy what's not available.

 

4. One free egg from the market would mess with gameplay as the game tries to match the ratios. You can bet I (and probably many others) would choose a free rare every month and you can bet prices would probably skyrocket.

 

TLDR: I continue to enter the raffle to try and win a prize dragon. I don't want to be rewarded with a consolation prize that's not even remotely close to being a prize dragon. The only thing I continue to support as a consolation prize are the honorable mentions of olden times: CB alts and hybrids or past holidays. But TJ has said no to HMs ever coming back.

I can't quite follow your arguments, to be honest.

 

1. Using the market or not is your choice. And while it's true you cannot always afford everything you want, you can save up for what you want. Yes, it takes time. It's supposed to.

2. Just because not everyone wants to change their username doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option. While I, personally, wouldn't use it (and spend my shards on some more golds/silvers that I could use more of), I know there are several players who'd jump at that chance.

3. Okay, I totally agree with that.

4. The suggestion has been changed to a common egg - shard limit being either 200 or 500 shards, I think. At least those are the limits I've seen around in discussion.

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There is still no need at all for a consolation prize if you don't win a raffle.  You don't get one if you don't win Euromillions. With any raffle, you get a ticket hoping to win, but absolutely NOT expecting a consolation prize if you don't win. This all smacks of the "no child can ever be allowed to fail a test" so we have to let them keep trying over and over till it's "close enough.". And then the kid gets a job and finds they are in trouble because in real life you don't get to rewrite the letter the boss told you to send 73 times and take a week to do it.

 

You don't win - them's the breaks. The entitlement culture seems to be slipping in here.

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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You don't win - them's the breaks. The entitlement culture seems to be slipping in here.

 

You hit the nail on the head, fuzzbucket!   :lol:

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3 hours ago, Jazeki said:

Uh. No to all of these from me:

 

1. Not everyone uses the market. You can't even buy prizes in the market. Or, you still won't always be able to afford the thing you want (even with shards). 

 

2. Not everyone wants to change their username. If you change your name, you automatically miss out on being able to buy dragons you might want because you don't have enough shards anymore. You shouldn't have to choose between buying dragons and changing your username.

 

3. Codes are limited. Someone might also (and does, at least for me) have the code you want. Can't buy what's not available.

 

4. One free egg from the market would mess with gameplay as the game tries to match the ratios. You can bet I (and probably many others) would choose a free rare every month and you can bet prices would probably skyrocket.

 

TLDR: I continue to enter the raffle to try and win a prize dragon. I don't want to be rewarded with a consolation prize that's not even remotely close to being a prize dragon. The only thing I continue to support as a consolation prize are the honorable mentions of olden times: CB alts and hybrids or past holidays. But TJ has said no to HMs ever coming back.

 1. I don't use the market right now because for one, the eggs I generally want are 200 shards, not 100 and I want to make sure I have enough to buy something later. it's just a mentality I have. But just because some people don't use shards doesn't mean others shouldn't get some as a reward for participating in the raffle or whatever. but if you don't like that, the consolation could always be a 100-200 shard common egg.

2. Again, just because you don't want something doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option. and youre not FORCED to choose. it's a CHOICE. if you want to change your username, you do, and then you save up more shards to get the egg you want. or vice versa.

3. This also applies to random codes spawning? I don't really see the point of this argument.

4. Again, the egg chosen as prize would be a common or at least below 500 shards. And it's not like you can trade them, so they wouldn't go right up on the hub or anything. This would actually also help with common ratios and breeding (which MIGHT reduce the need for walling/massbreeding for breeding ratios).

 

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You don't win - them's the breaks. The entitlement culture seems to be slipping in here.

This sounds a bit...rude and attack-y imo. I don't understand why this suggestion seems to push your buttons so much. But getting one free common per month for not winning the raffle would be nice. Especially considering how few eggs show up in the cave: There are only 3 slots in cave at a time and over 200 breeds in the game. Chances are, even if the breed you want is a common, it isn't going to be in the cave. and not everyone can play all day every day. One common every month, of your choice, is going to hurt NO ONE, and would in fact give some people something to look forward to.

I don't really understand anyone's objection to this free egg option when they say "but you don't get consolations in real life". Like, this isn't real life and it isn't a real objection. Sounds a lot like "Im missing out on free eggs for all the months I entered and didnt win" or "I don't like change".

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Except I'm not missing anything for not winning every month. I entered because I played the game.

One free egg for EACH of the 10,000+ users who didn't win EVERY month would skew ratios and they are already a nightmare. Because common or not, people are not going to take the massively underpopulated breeds. Those breeds that are too common in the biomes and/or fill up the ap because No One Wants Them. Which will, in turn,  make them even more underpopulated.

 

If you instead hand out shards rather than eggs, the problem will be even more compounded as users save them up to get the more expensive eggs more quickly.

 

Not being able to trade market eggs is not relevant to their effect on the ratios. Ratios are determined by how many of each species exists, not how many are on the trading hub. However, since it would mess with ratios, it will change the market/shard price for most/all breeds and trading value in the hub is now often based closely on market price. (Not universally, no, but enough people go "the egg I have is worth X so I can ask for these ones because they are also X".)

 

People aren't saying change is bad. We are saying, this change will make things that are currently frustrating about this game much worse. I was fairly neutral on this, but the more I think about it, it's a hard no unless and until something is done to how the ratios work !.

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I'm neutral on the shards as consolation prize, since I don't care much about shards or the raffle.

 

But personally I'd love to see an option to buy a dragon with a personalized code in the market. Of course, this would have to have a lot of restrictions, like a high price and a long cooldown (for example you could only do it once per year or something). And of course untradeable, so users wouldn't be able to bypass the system by purchasing custom codes from other people.

Edited by LaHaine

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I'd rather shards be a prize tier. Like, a kinda common one, so most people who play the lottery regularly would have a good chance to get that little bonus a time or two a year, but not something that's given every month to every person who enters. 'Cause when it's something everyone gets every month, it'd need to be small, and then it just becomes, like, expected. It doesn't seem like winning anything if you know you're gonna get it for entering.

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19 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

One free egg for EACH of the 10,000+ users who didn't win EVERY month would skew ratios and they are already a nightmare. Because common or not, people are not going to take the massively underpopulated breeds. Those breeds that are too common in the biomes and/or fill up the ap because No One Wants Them. Which will, in turn,  make them even more underpopulated.

As far as I was aware, the biomes do not populate based on ratios as far as commons go. That is to say, it doesn't choose to show 'underpopulated' common eggs more than non-underpopulated common eggs. It's a random selection. If the eggs given out as prizes are ALL from the common, or slightly less common bracket, it wouldn't change all that much.

 

21 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

it will change the market/shard price for most/all breeds and trading value in the hub is now often based closely on market price. (Not universally, no, but enough people go "the egg I have is worth X so I can ask for these ones because they are also X".)

Maybe some people use the hub like this but...I have literally never seen people say this kind of thing...and anyone I've seen ask about breed worth on forums or discord gets corrected: the market has nothing to do with trade worth.

 

23 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

People aren't saying change is bad.

To be clear I was specifically saying the argument sounded this way of the argument "this isn't how it is in real life so it shouldn't be that way here. I don't see the need for any type of consolation" without an actual reason for the objection. Because, if we were going to go with real life...things would get weird on DC real fast.

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9 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

I'd rather shards be a prize tier. Like, a kinda common one, so most people who play the lottery regularly would have a good chance to get that little bonus a time or two a year, but not something that's given every month to every person who enters. 'Cause when it's something everyone gets every month, it'd need to be small, and then it just becomes, like, expected. It doesn't seem like winning anything if you know you're gonna get it for entering.

I can defs see this. and I would be totally ok with it being a common win every once in awhile.

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15 minutes ago, LaHaine said:

But personally I'd love to see an option to buy a dragon with a personalized code in the market. Of course, this would have to have a lot of restrictions, like a high price and a long cooldown (for example you could only do it once per year or something). And of course untradeable, so users wouldn't be able to bypass the system by purchasing custom codes from other people.

yep. and this is why I'd also consider a once-per-scroll limit.

Edited by _DeadPool_

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3 hours ago, _DeadPool_ said:

As far as I was aware, the biomes do not populate based on ratios as far as commons go.

Ehhh I think they do. It's why new releases flood and dwindle away automatically, and yet very common and not-particularly desired new releases will continue to spawn in many of the slots until the next very common release takes over. They might not be directly correlated to bred ratios, but market eggs are CB and will probably affect CB ratios unless there's something TJ didn't tell us. Market eggs definitely affect ratios in general, since gold prices shot up by 100 the first day people had enough shards to buy golds. So... yeah, I can see adverse ratios from completely free eggs making the cave drop dirt commons even more heavily, though making it an occasional win would help limit it somewhat.

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I would like to see scrollname changes as a standalone feature not tied to the market; like once every six months, or once a year, or just plain once period, for anyone who regrets that cringey scroll name they made when they were 15 or whoever just wants to change to something like/feels fits them better.

 

I guess I'm not really opposed to consolation prizes but at the same time I don't really think there's a need for it. The requirements for entry have never been particularly difficult to meet, so I don't really feel there's a lot to reward.

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