The Ratio Problem - and possible solutions

[borntobefree]

only issue with ap walls is that most of the ones breed are not breed in any sort of lineage or with good mates, its often just random pairings that make no sense and no body wants it, I'm fine with walls even for extended periods of time as long as those eggs in the ap are thought out, most people end up using their kill slots to clear the wall, which really sucks cause then we can't try for zombies and such. Now zombie ratios need work. New releases should even out in a year, anything over a year is just plain ridiculous. but the current time frames for releases and breedings is fine with me, even the ratio's can be worked with, its just some breed everything thinking it'll change ratios, but it doesn't it just increases numbers.  I've had great success with gildeds to hooktalons because i do hooktalon MB with just itself before i try the hooktalon to gilded bloodscale. Anyone trying to get a targ from a blackfyre will know how hard that is. lol

 

the rations are not a problem for rares like golds and metals, thats more of a scripting problem imo. Or Some people with really quick reflexes catch the rares all the time, you just need better internet speeds and be closer to the servers apparently.hahaha or catch them during holidays when people are distracted by the other stuff, I've actually caught rares this way, of course you miss out on everything else.

 

so only real thing i see as an issue is the longevity of the skewered rations, keep it under a year then get it to normal levels, others just need patience.

[Kaiserf11]

Does anyone know if there are any plans to add a new BSA to help choosing the breed of the egg created? I understand it would not be ideal for breeds such as prizes or Metals (gold and silver mainly), but a BSA for common/uncommon breeds would be a MAJOR improvement for everyone. It can be something like boosting one breed's chance for the egg created, and have it not stack to other BSAs and not work on rare breeds to keep it from being abused. But I think we all can agree that some breeds are just way too much when breeding to others, I'm pretty sure it ruins breeding plans people might have.

 

I mean, I've been working on a lineage project that I can't move forwards because the pairing I have (Undine x Freckled) has NOT ONCE given me an Undine egg, and they have 14 children... I mean, I understand one breed may be more common, but not like this, its way too much. I have an (Undine x Red) pair and they needed 7 eggs to give me a Red, completely uneven yes, but I can understand that. But 14-0 its just absurd. We DO NEED a way to even it out, maybe not a guaranteed boost, but better than 100%-0% for sure.

[Fuzzbucket]

If this is a CB pair, have you tried switching mates ? Worked for me....

 

https://dragcave.net/progeny/6mKdW (and I have others...)

[Ruffledfeathers]

Idk if its my own superstition, but I have recently found that breeding a few eggs of the ‘wrong’ breed sometimes helps. 
 

I did this at least for an angelis x gold, angelis x silver and water x almerald and got the gold, silver and water  

[redwolf]

I also agree on number 2. I have a project I want to do with white/undines, and I've got 8 CB pairs. I want either undine or white eggs out of them but after 12 breedings (so far) spread out over the 8 pairs, I've gotten nothing but Amalthean eggs. And yea, I want an amalthean at the end, but not until generation 4. I know the amaltheans are brand new and whatnot, but I havent gotten a single white or undine egg from any of them whatsoever. 

 

Personally, I also think 1 is a problem as well. I've been on the site for 12 years and have never seen a gold or silver in the cave, let alone caught one. But I know too many people dont think its an issue so thats a battle I'm not going to bother fighting. 

[Kaiserf11]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:50 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

If this is a CB pair, have you tried switching mates ? Worked for me....

 

https://dragcave.net/progeny/6mKdW (and I have others...)

 

Its not a CB pair issue, at least not on my lineage project, tho thanks for the suggestion.

 

 

On 6/10/2020 at 3:33 AM, Ruffledfeathers said:

Idk if its my own superstition, but I have recently found that breeding a few eggs of the ‘wrong’ breed sometimes helps. 
 

I did this at least for an angelis x gold, angelis x silver and water x almerald and got the gold, silver and water  

 

I've been suggested that before and while I understand it can help, it SHOULDN'T have to be the go to option. But that aside, in my case I don't have that many Freckles I can use to try that option anyway. And I have this issue with other breeds too, which I don't have many either, I get some breeds as they release and/or just to complete the data sometimes, so in most cases I have maybe 1 more pair I can try using.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Kaiserf11

[Fiona]

The thing is, as far as we can tell without access to the code, the degree of compatibility between dragons is variable. If you get a "not interested" message, for example, you should for certain switch mates because that message indicates that while they are capable of producing an egg the chance of that is severely reduced. On the other hand, a "no egg produced" or the wrong breed produced indicates more compatibility. Plus for some reason it appears that the chance of a particular result - i.e. the specific breed this specific pair will produce, is also somewhat variable. So if A + B gives the wrong breed A + C might have a different chance to produce the right one.

[purplehaze]

9 minutes ago, Fiona said:

If you get a "not interested" message, for example, you should for certain switch mates because that message indicates that while they are capable of producing an egg the chance of that is severely reduced.

This seems to be "common knowledge" but honestly I have not usually found it to be the case. When I am breeding my Z'code lineages I have limited possibilities when it comes to mates. So I tend not to change out mates unless I get repeated "no interest" results. Even dragons who have given that result on their first breeding, with fertility, often go on to produce eggs nearly every time in the future, even without the use of fertility. I see no difference in likelihood of success in the future between a "no egg" and a "no interest" result. And I have been breeding my z dragons every week for years and keeping records of breeding results. I breed each pair until they give me a z-code offspring, which can take many, many breedings! Only very occasionally have I found a pair that I have needed to switch out because of repeated breeding failures. Your results may vary, of course, but that has been my observation.

[Fiona]

I could indeed be wrong about the issue. My experience with "not interested" pairs has been it's been a struggle to get anything from them. Of course, I tend to breed more rare x something pairs than anything else.

[purplehaze]

31 minutes ago, Fiona said:

I could indeed be wrong about the issue. My experience with "not interested" pairs has been it's been a struggle to get anything from them. Of course, I tend to breed more rare x something pairs than anything else.

Well, it is not just you. I see people saying it all the time around the forum. I am just relating my experience, not trying to negate what anyone else has found.

[Shadowdrake]

I would agree that a single no interest simply means that; they don't want to make an egg this week, period, and it has no effect on their future breedings, whereas multiple no interests in a row is more suggestive that the couple itself is low compatibility. Similar to how a "no egg" once in awhile doesn't mean the breed itself is rare, but a lot of no-eggs is probably due to rarity.

[DragonLady86]

My first silver gave me "no interest" or occasionally a refusal on every mate I offered her for over a year. I did eventually get eggs from her, but she was the most picky dragon ever. Lol I have heard the no interest idea before but I also heard it equated to "I have a headache". Which is what I would say one instance is. Multiple, and yes, switch mates.

[demonicvampiregirl]

Honestly, in regards to #3, I think it should be at 48 hour drop for them with 0 mixes in. I have came in a day late and had to sit for 2-3 days just finding the eggs again cuz they'd immediately be mixed back in.

[Paradisiske]

CB ratios would be fixed if at the hourly refresh all remaining eggs got kicked to the AP. Yes this includes rares like golds and silvers and stats.  This will flood the AP at the beginning but as the cave clears out and the ratios begin to balance there will be less eggs being sent to the ap because there will be less eggs being generated in the cave due to balanced ratios.

 

 

 

I suppose that making the breeding ratios be based on market prices might be a good idea.

 

 

For the new release floods, I dont support artificially increasing the flood time with how the ratios are now.

[Elizabeth Moonstone]

Could separate CB and breeding ratios be a solution? As people mentioned before, the desirability of a CB rare is much higher than a bred rare so it would make sense they would be treated differently. Personally, I think CB rares should be slightly more abundant: compared to when I first played ten years ago, they seem to be almost non-existent.

 

This would also solve the problems with new species: new dragons would start off very common in the cave but not in breeding, allowing people to build lineages with new species.

[Shadowdrake]

CB and breeding ratios are already counted separately; this is why dragons that seem uncommon in cave (such as kingcrownes, black truffles and monarchs) will breed ridiculously easy, to the point that they're more common breeders than some commons. However, changing the breeding ratio system/numbers may fix it, since right now breeding ratios seem to demand the same level as the thousands of eggs that a new release cave generates, except it forces players and player demand to make and raise those thousands of lineaged, unwanted eggs instead. Perhaps if new breeding ratios were more like hybrid dragons' it'd be more even.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Shadowdrake

[Guillotine]

Bumping this because it's only gotten to be more stark a problem.

[StarlightLion]

Seconding the bump because I desperately wish player concerns (like this, but not exclusively this) that we've been talking about for years were more seriously considered.

[Thorn4]

The problem we have with Xenos I fully believe is because of the elusive Staterae which is hard to breed for, and costs 4,700 shards to purchase from the market - which by the way would take you 47 weeks of grinding 100 shards per week just to afford 1 egg, far too long.

 

So the best alternative is to suck it up and breed more Xenos in the hopes of getting the chosen one, which is what I did, and all attempts failed to produce a Stat. I do however snag Xeno eggs off the AP to have more breeding pairs, which in turn adds to the problem. You see?

 

Making the Stat less rare, and less expensive to purchase the egg would help a lot with curbing the over-breeding issue. Lower the egg cost to 2,000 shards, which is on par with Thunder Dragon eggs, and either keep the breeding chance the same, or make it have slightly better odds. Xenos in general are beautiful, so I don't think I'll ever get tired of them, but I do understand the issue they pose with the AP - as well as other breeds.

Edit: Never mind, found this from a post back in 2022 made by TJ, replying to someone who made a post about Stats being too hard to save for, but not the wall issue. TJ said; "I don't plan to cap market prices in any way. Market prices are derived from other stuff, so a cap is little more than masking symptoms of another problem. If a breed is "too expensive" for people, it's also probably too rare in general, and artificial limits on prices doesn't fix that. "

I guess I'll just log on once a week to breed my pairs and that's it, I hate grinding for things - it makes me lose interest quickly.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Thorn4

[StarlightLion]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:27 PM, Thorn4 said:

Stats being too hard to save for,

I'd pin this entirely on how the ratios currently function. Stats are not only rare, but made even rarer by the demand for them, of which the mass Xeno breeding is just an inevitable symptom. Even messy lineaged Stats are valuable because of how difficult they are to obtain, which makes everyone breed for the tiny chance of getting one, which drives up the ratios, which drives up the rarity and value, which drives up the Market price. It's essentially a ratio-shaped xeno ouroboros of rarity, lol

[Fuzzbucket]

I say again - when I was catching / releasing from a wall a few days ago, out of interest, MOST of the xenos I picked up were pretty lineaged ones and many couldn't have produced a stat as they were checkers. Also one thing I have found, come to think, it that in my own checkers I more often get the Xeno than the other breed- so I dump the xeno., I've dumped a LOT of those.

[purplehaze]

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

many couldn't have produced a stat as they were checkers.

Not so. The one and only Stat that my dragons have ever produced was from a checker! https://dragcave.net/lineage/qtxBa

[Tiira]

Yep! I was breeding my checkers to the AP some time last year and this happened. That is the only stat my dragons have ever produced, too. No idea who got it but I hope it made them happy! 😸

Edited April 27, 2023 by Tiira

[Shadowdrake]

7 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

MOST of the xenos I picked up were pretty lineaged ones and many couldn't have produced a stat as they were checkers.

Any pairing that can produce a xeno can produce a stat, so lineage doesn't have any bearing on xeno massbreeding for stats. 

 

 

Incidentally as of yesterday I've witnessed xeno walls 3 days in a row, though no clue how long the walls actually lasted as they were intermittent.

[Fuzzbucket]

Wow - I stand corrected; I thought it had to be with another Xeno or they could only turn up the Xeno of the xeno parent (if you get me). Thanks. Evben so - I think many of the dropped ones were aiming for the "other breed" for a checker. Why would anyone do this

 

https://dragcave.net/lineage/sdMmY

 

to get a stat ?