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LadyLyzar

Abandoned Page Compendium - Display Suggestions

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I know TJ has already weighed in but I'll just stick my thoughts in.

 

1 - Do nothing. Still preferred course of action on my end, whether people think it's valid or not. I've expressed my opinion on why I think walls are a good thing many times before and I'm not going to rehash that.

2 - Limit breeding per scroll. No. Absolutely not.

3 - Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed. Secondary preferred course of action; it's the least disruptive of any of these options to both AP hunters and mass breeders, and only affects one of the reasons I like seeing walls. A limit of 6 (one row) or 12 (two rows) seems best.

4 - Limit the amount of eggs of one breed being displayed. No, I don't like this. I'm gonna echo... pretty much everyone else on why this isn't a good thing.

5 - A way to filter what you see in the AP. Another hard no, and I'm glad TJ shared his thoughts on this.

6 - Paginate the AP. Same as above.

7 - Split the AP into biomes. I originally loved this idea, and I do still like it in theory, but I suppose it's messier in practice, so hard "maybe".

8 - Add extra egg slots for bred or AP'ed eggs. No, I don't think this is a good idea.

9 - Incentives for raising AP eggs (raffles, etc). We already kind of have this and it hasn't affected anything. If we had more of these, or more often (as in having that raffle requirement more often, or needing to raise more than three dragons, or what have you) it would be better to consider.

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I purposely put discussion away from the first list of suggestions so that users can form their own opinions without bias.

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And I - didn't scroll ! My apologies.

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On 11/12/2019 at 10:49 PM, LadyLyzar said:
  • Add extra egg slots for bred or AP'ed eggs
  • Incentives for raising AP eggs (raffles, etc)

Oop. Forgot to chime in about these.

 

Extra slot. On the fence. Didn't we have this once and it got removed? Anyway, I think it could give some players an unnecessary advantage over those who don't collect AP eggs or people with lower trophy levels and I don't know that we need any more disparity. Imagine what I, a gold trophy user, could do during a holiday with 8 egg slots plus extra AP slots. Just something to think about.

 

Incentives. I don't know that this would help? We already have picking up bred things as a raffle requirement and lots of users host their own lottos and raffles with great prizes. Also, it sort of forces people to participate if they want a prize. 

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6 hours ago, Jazeki said:

Oop. Forgot to chime in about these.

 

Extra slot. On the fence. Didn't we have this once and it got removed? Anyway, I think it could give some players an unnecessary advantage over those who don't collect AP eggs or people with lower trophy levels and I don't know that we need any more disparity. Imagine what I, a gold trophy user, could do during a holiday with 8 egg slots plus extra AP slots. Just something to think about.

 

Incentives. I don't know that this would help? We already have picking up bred things as a raffle requirement and lots of users host their own lottos and raffles with great prizes. Also, it sort of forces people to participate if they want a prize. 

 

No to both, please.

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Well, when the alternative is those monstrous walls making the AP hunt a gigantic experience in misery, doing *nothing* is the absolute worst option. The sheer selfish resistance to any solution is confounding. I'm done.

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I've no quarrel with the 3-5 per breeder showing - and  I haven't actually seen a wall in a few days now, so I wonder if TJ might have done that. But not extra slots and prizes for anything to do with it all. I'm not even sure it would help that much anyway.

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The AP has been very nice all day. Can't tell if it's just a lull between massbreeds or if something's been done to improve things, but I'm enjoying it either way. 🙂

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Yeah. SOMETHING has happened.

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I dunno. There was at least a small wall of messy Aethers earlier today.

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There was a Blacktip wall the other day too. Might've been short-lived though. I know because I actually picked something up from it for once!! :OOO Haha

 

Yeah though, still in favour of 3-5 per breeder ^_^ 

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I thought TJ's reasoning for starting at a higher number per breeder seemed sound. I don't know if he's done something already and not told us or it's just a matter of the usual mass breeders not doing that at the moment. A per breeder limit of whatever number seems the most workable solution though. I say "starting at" because he did indicate he'd adjust downward until things smoothed out, so I'm glad to see there will be care taken to adjust until we get a good working solution in place.

 

Though I will say I still think stacking by breeder but only eggs of the same breed would work even better. Smaller number of stacks but breeders that breed a wide variety and not just masses of one breed aren't really contributing to the problem that I can see. 

Edited by Fiona

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There are 4 rows of one dragon type by a single breeder atm, I don't think TJ has dome anything as of right now. I hope he'll make some sort of announcement when/if he does. 

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On 11/21/2019 at 1:38 PM, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

There was a Blacktip wall the other day too. Might've been short-lived though. I know because I actually picked something up from it for once!! :OOO Haha

 

Yeah though, still in favour of 3-5 per breeder ^_^ 

That would have been mine, and yeah it was short lived- I only threw about 200 eggs at the AP, and they were all PB 2g blacktips instead of my usual "quantity over quality" approach. :P AP times being well over 5d offended my sensibilities and mass-breeding JUST my CB blacktips to help bring it down takes a lot less time and produces a lot fewer eggs than my mega-wall massbreeds!

 

Pretty sure if TJ had changed anything, he would have said something though. My guess is that people are otherwise preoccupied with Thanksgiving (well, for US players anyway) preparations and probably just not massbreeding as much at the moment as a result. Pretty hard to sit down for the 6+ hours a mega massbreed requires when you're busy packing/traveling/cooking/stuck away from your home setup/dealing with family/etc.

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Question. im unsure if this has been brought up yet, but, doesn't breeding a lot of one dragon help with ratios for future pairs?

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I have a suggestion that I randomly thought of this 3 AM.

 

Personalized AP but not directly controlled by the players, skewing the kinds of eggs appearing in the AP to the player's "favor" by a small degree. We don't know what each player like, and we also don't want the players to power through the gameplay with filters for a chance to hunt certain breeds of eggs. I propose a crazy (but who knows, maybe feasible) idea of implementing machine learning or AI to everyone's AP.

 

Like how people get personalized googleads based on their recent and recurring activities, I can see this working the same for DC, but only skewing the AP from the usual by a bit (give a low learning curve, etc). The factors taken into value could be, for example, the egg breed, the lineage generation (CB, 2G, 3G, 7G+, ...), or even the lineage type (EG, Stair, Spiral, Patternless, etc). It makes the AI learn to support these kinds of eggs whenever picked up, and goes against the eggs whenever the eggs are abandoned. (Whether it counts for all eggs abandoned to AP, or only the eggs picked up from AP and reabandoned are counted, not sure).

 

Case scenario, a person finds a wall of Kohrakis (I wish). Picking it up and reabandoning it would imply negative support for Kohraki eggs, and thus would skew the AI a bit to make Kohraki eggs appear less often. (It will never reach 0% chance for Kohraki to appear, just set weight limits.) Eventually, the first few non-Kohraki eggs would appear in AP, and as more of these eggs are hatched and kept, the algorithm will give positive feedback on those breeds, overall reducing favor for Kohrakis up to, for example, 30%. So everytime AP is refreshed (the AP, not refreshing the browser page), the AP that you see would have roughly 30% chance of sering non-Kohraki eggs. This is still chance; you csn find only 50% of the wall, or the full 100% of Kohrakis still wall the AP in front of you.

 

I hope it's understandable

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17 minutes ago, BlueLatios said:

I have a suggestion that I randomly thought of this 3 AM.

 

Personalized AP but not directly controlled by the players, skewing the kinds of eggs appearing in the AP to the player's "favor" by a small degree. We don't know what each player like, and we also don't want the players to power through the gameplay with filters for a chance to hunt certain breeds of eggs. I propose a crazy (but who knows, maybe feasible) idea of implementing machine learning or AI to everyone's AP.

 

Like how people get personalized googleads based on their recent and recurring activities, I can see this working the same for DC, but only skewing the AP from the usual by a bit (give a low learning curve, etc). The factors taken into value could be, for example, the egg breed, the lineage generation (CB, 2G, 3G, 7G+, ...), or even the lineage type (EG, Stair, Spiral, Patternless, etc). It makes the AI learn to support these kinds of eggs whenever picked up, and goes against the eggs whenever the eggs are abandoned. (Whether it counts for all eggs abandoned to AP, or only the eggs picked up from AP and reabandoned are counted, not sure).

 

Case scenario, a person finds a wall of Kohrakis (I wish). Picking it up and reabandoning it would imply negative support for Kohraki eggs, and thus would skew the AI a bit to make Kohraki eggs appear less often. (It will never reach 0% chance for Kohraki to appear, just set weight limits.) Eventually, the first few non-Kohraki eggs would appear in AP, and as more of these eggs are hatched and kept, the algorithm will give positive feedback on those breeds, overall reducing favor for Kohrakis up to, for example, 30%. So everytime AP is refreshed (the AP, not refreshing the browser page), the AP that you see would have roughly 30% chance of sering non-Kohraki eggs. This is still chance; you csn find only 50% of the wall, or the full 100% of Kohrakis still wall the AP in front of you.

 

I hope it's understandable

The thing is this: With enough effort *cough* scripts *cough* it's then possible to filter anything that isn't one of those rare breeds... Just have some script catch and abandon anything that isn't a prize/gold/silver... I know this filter isn't 100% effective, but people who do that will still be able to cherry-pick all the shinies before the average user can even see them.

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22 minutes ago, BlueLatios said:

Picking it up and reabandoning it would imply negative support for Kohraki eggs, and thus would skew the AI a bit to make Kohraki eggs appear less often.

 

Honestly this is probably backwards from what people want happening. I assume a lot of people, if they see a wall of breeds that they don't want, will not pick up any of the eggs or one to two at most. This also goes for other eggs that people don't want in general even when the ap is not walled. For example if I never pick up canopies but I do pick up and toss a lot of celestials, this idea sounds a lot like it'll skew celestials to show up less because I also happen to abandon those celestials, whereas canopies stay unfactored and therefore, presumably, at 100%.

Edited by Shadowdrake

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@Shadowdrake you assume 2 breeds are in AP. The AI I'm talking of, if it's feasible and powerful enough, compares all possible breeds. So if you pick keep abandoning Celestials, Canopies stay at large. If you reabandon both breeds after a while, a slim chance of 1 or 2 eggs that are neither Celestials nor Canopies may appear in AP. But I agree with your notion, it may seem to be a bit too hard to adjust the AP to face a wall of 3 or more wall of breeds.

Edit: well for an AI to learn, it needs data of what the user wants and not want anyway. Maybe after the first few walls, eventually the players start experiencing a good change. Maybe.

 

Who knows, maybe the egg's owner can be one of the factors for the algorithm to learn and find out.

And also @olympe then the solution would be for the weights to be customly adjusted. Weights for common breeds would play an important role, whereas the weights for rare breeds like Golds, Silvers, etc, have little to no effect on the personalization of AP, making it almost fair for everyone. The thing I'd see unfair would be that each person would see a different AP, and idk if the AP can be programmed in such a way that the rare eggs are unaffected while the others are, unless the AP is classified into 2 or 3 categories:

Rare/Valuable: when their time comes, they will show up on everyone's AP, regardless of personalization.

-Common: as normal

Edited by BlueLatios

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I dislike any form of breeder limiting.

 

I "massbreed" my Xenos in order to try and get miscolored Xenowyrms on purpose. It's not an act of malice, and I'm not doing it to spite anyone. They're all either 2g PBs or 2g checker starters. I often see people trying to trade them on the hub--so yay, folks like them!

 

Fact is, to get a bunch of miscolors, I have to try a lot of dragons. Putting limits on what I can breed is just one mechanic smacking right into another one. Doesn't seem fair to me. 

 

Looking at other proposed solutions they all seem to quickly become too complicated or fall apart rather quickly imo. 

 

I also certainly wouldn't want any system that allows people to "cherrypick" valuable dragons such as Altkins, Thuweds, Prizekins, etc. 

 

The impartiality of the AP is what makes it good. 

Edited by BrazenChase

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3 minutes ago, BrazenChase said:

I dislike any form of breeder limiting.

 

I "massbreed" my Xenos in order to try and get miscolored Xenowyrms on purpose. It's not an act of malice, and I'm not doing it to spite anyone. They're all either 2g PBs or 2g checker starters. I often see people trying to trade them on the hub--so yay, folks like them!

 

Fact is, to get a bunch of miscolors, I have to try a lot of dragons. Putting limits on what I can breed is just one mechanic smacking right into another one. Doesn't seem fair to me. 

 

Looking at other proposed solutions they all seem to quickly become too complicated or fall apart rather quickly imo. 

 

I also certainly wouldn't want any system that allows people to "cherrypick" valuable dragons such as Altkins, Thuweds, Prizekins, etc. 

 

The impartiality of the AP is what makes it good. 

 

This, very much. Which is why I think the only way to deal with walls is limiting the number of those on VIEW from any one breeder, and TJ seems to think this would make a difference.

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I'd support options that limit how many eggs from a massbreed can show in AP at once. I originally liked the per-breed option best but having seen arguments against it in this thread I see why per-breeder is better.

 

Personally I quite like the subtle mixed 'walls' that you get when one breeder breeds many different breeds (such that you can only tell from the consistent lineage types or naming schemes), so I'd support only hiding additional eggs from one breeder if they're also of the same breed, but equally I can see that this would still leave a fairly large loophole for one person to take over the AP with undesirable eggs.

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Out of the current options I probably agree most with limiting number of eggs shows by one breeder, preferably with a second limit of eggs of same breed from one breeder. Example: There can be 18 eggs showing from one breeder total, but only 6 of those can be of the same breed.

Ideally with some egg safety net like that the egg will show up if its time drops x hours below the otherwise lowest egg currently showing in the AP so they wouldn't get lost behind. 

 

I also like the idea of AP being split into several pages but as many including TJ said, biomes are not the way to go. However, I feel like there could perhaps be a different way to split them, maybe based on elemental affinities in 2-4 groups that could be balanced depending on number of breeds, rarity, their amount in recent existence/AP....? Probably more trouble than it's worth.

 

But honestly, outside of holidays, walls are often just a symptom of AP times being rather high which is undesirable to many. If that stopped happening, at least some of the breeders wouldn't feel the need to breed hundreds of dragons to bring the time down to begin with. Not sure if there is any way of solving that though - my only idea was dropping CB biome eggs into AP if they are not picked up fast enough.

 

All in all, most of the options have their pluses and minuses but none solve the issues of Holiday AP (during Halloween in particular) that goes all the way down to less than desirable uninfluencable eggs while all the non-Halloweens die in the background behind. And imo, that does need some solving.

Edited by Alwerien

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Please not pagination.

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@BlueLatios I am very much against different people seeing different things in the AP and I believe TJ has spoken against it as well in the past. Besides, I am not always looking for the same breeds in the AP. What I might like to see there today may not be at all what I want it to give me a higher chance of finding next week, or even tomorrow!

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