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Per-scroll breeding limit

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34 minutes ago, JavaTigress said:

For myself I go hunt the biomes if there is nothing on the AP I want.... or do something else.

 

Yes, I also log out and do something else if I want to hunt on the AP but it is blocked. However, good game design would be to arrange gameplay so that people who are on the site and want to play at any given time will NOT go away and do something else instead. Several of the solutions suggested in this thread would help with that. 🙂

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Ok look... wall's gone.

 

That's what usually happens if you wait a couple hours.

 

I don't like the idea of telling other players how to play, which is what limiting the number of eggs one person can send per day to the ap does. My problem with limiting the number of eggs per breeder that shows in the ap is that maybe someone (like me for example) has several different breeds they could potentially wall the ap with. User B over there maybe doesn't like my Spirit Wards, but perhaps after I've bred all of those I've bred my 6 or 7 hundred Coppers, maybe my couple hundred BSA dragons, and maybe something else I have a boatload of. Those would be hidden behind my Spirit Wards in the current proposal. The drawback to limiting how many of each breed shows in the ap is the potential that user A breeds a few dozen messy-linaged whatevers, then user B comes behind them and breeds a bunch of pretty 2nd gens. Those who won't take the messies but would take the 2nd gens don't get to see them.

 

As I see things, every proposed solution brings new problems.

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19 hours ago, Soulsborne said:

We have suggestions like this one every time there's a wall of some sort but tbh, some people seem to blow this up to a bigger issue than it is. No offense, but I bet we wouldn't even be talking about restricting people's breeding numbers if all eggs produced were "pretty lineages" of many different breeds (still all produced by one single player).

Really? People bring up the same issue time and again - and why? Because they "seem to blow this up to a bigger issue than it is" - or maybe because it is a big issue to a lot of us? Also - if I had to choose between dealing with endless walls of the same breed as well as "pretty lineages of many different breeds" - or restricting both, I'd probably choose the latter. In recent months/the last year (something around that time frame), it seems to have become more and more common to breed "messy" lineages, often en mass. Is it just my impression, or can others confirm? And, yes, I know there are breeders out there who regularly breed lots of very nice lineages - @Terrafreaky pretty much being my favorite of them.

 

19 hours ago, Soulsborne said:

As it is, you can't properly influence breeding ratios of super common breeds without actually breeding them a lot and restricting the amount one person can breed would either mean

a) they'd have to space out their wall to many smaller walls which could lead to you seeing their eggs every day if you're unlucky with time zones or whatever instead of once every month or so

or b) they'd have to rely on the help of other breeders to get substantial numbers bred which would work around your suggestion anyway because several people breeding a smaller amount would still wall the AP. :rolleyes:

And, later on:

15 hours ago, animatedrose said:

Not everyone is interested in spending years trying to break a ratio so they can complete a dream lineage.

Well, you still can. 100 eggs per day is still a lot. And besides - how, exactly, do you influence the breeding ratios of your favorite common? By forcing other players to raise your eggs if they want the AP back. I know I've said so before, but mass-breeding your favorite common in order to enforce a change in ratios is basically you taking the AP hostage. Either people play along and raise *your* favorite commons so the ratios get affected in *your* favor, or they'll just have to play without using a core feature of the game. That's entitlement of the worst kind right here! Seriously, if EQ kills wouldn't count towards my scroll limits (as they used to do), I'd be tempted to grab a bunch of Pebbles and EQ the heck out of all inconvenient walls there are!

 

18 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

This. Yes. Very much. Suggestions of this type are often basically 'I don't personally like what is currently in the AP, so I want to change it'. This isn't *really* about one person breeding a lot of eggs to the AP, it's about one person breeding eggs that some people don't like or want. If there was a wall of low-gen Prizes in the AP I'd bet a hundred bucks everyone would be posting excitement instead of frustration! And, again, the way to deal with that issue shouldn't be to restrict breeding... Like you pointed out, one person breeding tons of dragons doesn't necessarily mean a wall of any certain breed. I could breed all my CBs and there would probably be 300+ eggs, but most likely no more than 20-30 of the same breed. Putting restrictions on *breeding* isn't the answer to walls and most likely wouldn't do as much to curb walls as people seem to think.

First of all, unless you breed PB Prize lines, you'll never be able to create a wall of Prize eggs. Prizes don't breed that well, and often give eggs of the other breeds. Not to mention they get picked up so quickly that there won't ever be a chance for a wall forming. The same is true for "walls" of pretty much every other rare or uncommon breed. They're as real as unicorns. They. Don't. Exist. At. All.

 

What's so bad about one-breed walls is that if you don't like the breed, you're out of luck - probably for hours on end. Sometimes a lot of hours or even days.

 

On the other hand - not every wall in the AP gets this kind of reaction. But there are a lot of walls. And the last wall was probably the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, and (once again) incited a reaction. 

 

17 hours ago, Keileon said:

Also, BSA massbreeds happen frequently and are something that the general userbase counts as a good thing-- I wouldn't want to limit those by placing a restriction on the breeder.

Also, mass-breeds of messy commons that the general userbase counts as a bad thing happen. And probably more often than BSA massbreeds. Not to mention that - with a limit of 100 eggs per breeder per day - an organised BSA massbreed with 10 participants can still create a wall that fills the visible part of the AP 33 times. Or breed enough eggs for 125 gold trophy players to fill their scrolls with eggs. If people want to create a mass-breed for all BSA dragons, they'll just need to do the various BSAs on different days - Red Monday, Purple Tuesday, Pink Wednesday, Magi Thursday, White Friday, Aeon Saturday, Summon Sunday (Trios and Zyus)... Limits aren't there to stop you from doing anything, they just limit the effect you can have on others.

 

Yes, I know there are other BSAs, but how many of those do you really need? Not to mention that sending Vamps to the AP is a bit of a problem because you'll have your scroll full of broken eggs before you ever reach 100 eggs...

 

3 hours ago, tjekan said:

I agree with Kila, the issue shouldn't be stopping them from playing how they want, it should be changing the AP to enable people like Uther_Pendragon and myself to play how WE want too, which means not having the AP constantly closed off for someone else's private party. A new display mechanic would make the AP more fun for everyone without killing the playstyle of people who like to breed a lot. They should really be able to do that, just not at the expense of monopolizing OTHER people's play experience.

This is probably the best way to go about it because it doesn't ruffle any feathers. But maybe we should discuss the various options first before creating a new suggestion thread with the option that gets the majority behind them? Just trying to think ahead, honestly.

 

1 hour ago, sashocirrione said:

People had complaints similar to this when there was only one "cave" page instead of the biomes. What about having a "page 2" for the AP? You go to the AP, and if there are enough eggs, a "page 2" link will show up at the bottom, and you can go there to hunt more? Maybe even a "page 3" if the AP population gets large enough.

This, unfortunately, is not going to work. With how massive some walls are these days, all that would accomplish is that you get three pages full of wall eggs. Which doesn't change anything, really. Unless, you want to make it an endless number of pages until all eggs in "limbo" are being displayed somewhere. However, this will result in some people camping out at the end of the AP (last page, so to speak) in order to grab the freshly bred shinies.

 

ETA: 

5 minutes ago, Fiona said:

As I see things, every proposed solution brings new problems.

Yes, but shouldn't we try to determine which solution brings the least problems? Because the current situation is problematic at times.

Edited by olympe

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I wonder if it would be  possible to combine stacking by breed with stacking by breeder under certain conditions. Say, if breeder A breeds a variety of eggs to the ap, they don't stack, except if one of the breeds exceeds say, 30. Then only that breed by that breeder would become one stack. That way if I bred say, 50 Spirit Wards to the ap they would stack with themselves but the 20 or so Reds I sent after them would not be hidden by the Spirit Wards. And that other user over there could breed Spirit Wards too and they wouldn't be hidden by mine, or mine be hidden by theirs. It wouldn't necessarily prevent walls, but should lessen their impact.

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51 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

Yes, I also log out and do something else if I want to hunt on the AP but it is blocked. However, good game design would be to arrange gameplay so that people who are on the site and want to play at any given time will NOT go away and do something else instead. Several of the solutions suggested in this thread would help with that. 🙂

True, and I am not saying I would oppose a way of changing how eggs in the AP are displayed. CERTAINLY I prefer that solution to limiting breeding.

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Yesterday's one-breed wall lasted more than 12 hrs. I was in and out most of the day, and well into night, hoping to attempt snagging Halloween hatchies. (Got none, sad trombone) That's definitely not 'just a couple hours'-if it were, I'd have absolutely no issue.
 
(Also, pls, again, saying I should hunt biomes, or log off, or do something else, feels to me like dictating how *I* choose play the game, which is what we're trying to avoid doing to mass breeders, so pls also be sensitive to other styles? Thanks much!)
One-breed walls, no matter the lineage, *that last more than a few hours*, are a big huge deal to me, personally. Especially since they are now happening so often.
To me, it's similar when the biomes would not have eggs if the ap was full. A huge part of the game was unplayable then, too, and things got changed to make it more inclusive to different styles.
 
oo! Fiona's stacking idea--can that be done?
Would that be easier to implement than Heather Marie's idea?
I groove on the brainstorming, so much creativity!
 
 
 
 
 

 

 
 


 
 

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3 hours ago, Fiona said:

Ok look... wall's gone.

 

That's what usually happens if you wait a couple hours.

 

I don't like the idea of telling other players how to play, which is what limiting the number of eggs one person can send per day to the ap does. My problem with limiting the number of eggs per breeder that shows in the ap is that maybe someone (like me for example) has several different breeds they could potentially wall the ap with. User B over there maybe doesn't like my Spirit Wards, but perhaps after I've bred all of those I've bred my 6 or 7 hundred Coppers, maybe my couple hundred BSA dragons, and maybe something else I have a boatload of. Those would be hidden behind my Spirit Wards in the current proposal. The drawback to limiting how many of each breed shows in the ap is the potential that user A breeds a few dozen messy-linaged whatevers, then user B comes behind them and breeds a bunch of pretty 2nd gens. Those who won't take the messies but would take the 2nd gens don't get to see them.

 

As I see things, every proposed solution brings new problems.

 

This is so very true. Remember the "solution" to the sweetlings? Ended up with NOBODY happy !

 

7 hours ago, purplehaze said:

We do not know that and making assumptions and accusations like that is what derailed this discussion the last time and forced the mods to close it down.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

6 hours ago, Rally Vincent said:

Close your eyes as much as you like. In every group large of humans there have been, are and always will be people who do things to get a rile out of others. Just like people viewbomb scrolls, there are people who draw joy from the thought that they closed down the AP for a time - the longer, the better.

 

I think that group is vanishingly small here. But I believe last time posts like this encouraged a few otherwise cheerful ordinary players to go and make a wall on the grounds that if people believed that, may as well make it so...

 

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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That was a completely different type of problem. (the Sweetlings) This one directly affects the way a large part of the game is played, for me at least.
This is one that can be solved with a bit of compromise and balance. Meet me near the middle? Help figure out a way that least impacts both sides? 
 
I'd rather we not focus on the why's of the one breed walls, since that's truly not the issue.
Let's put focus and discussion on viable solutions; ways to make the one breed walls less of an ap blocker.
 There's a couple good ideas already. (I'm no help at that end, since I'm a computer dummy)
Which is the most simple to implement?
 


 
 
Edited by Uther_Pendragon
Because all of Fuzz's reply didn't load initially

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32 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I think that group is vanishingly small here. But I believe last time posts like this encouraged a few otherwise cheerful ordinary players to go and make a wall on the grounds that if people believed that, may as well make it so...

 

Now that really IS hostage-taking. "Stop talking about this in public or we'll stop being Mr. Nice Guy and REALLY ruin the AP for you"??? Let's hope there aren't very many people with that kind of attitude around, "otherwise cheerful" or not!

 

In any case, assuming that the vast majority of massbreeders are NOT "otherwise cheerful terrorists" but normal players who just like breeding a lot for any of several perfectly valid reasons, one would not think they would have any reason to object to a limit of how many of their eggs show on the AP at a time. They would still get to breed whenever and however they please; their eggs would still all eventually get picked up; the ratios would still eventually be influenced in their favor. The only thing that would change is that other users would get to play the game the way THEY want to while it was going on. That's an extraordinarily reasonable compromise, if it's codable.

 

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28 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:
4 hours ago, Fiona said:

As I see things, every proposed solution brings new problems.

This is so very true. Remember the "solution" to the sweetlings? Ended up with NOBODY happy !

We've also had some issues solved by hashing them out as a community or merely by getting the idea out there. Stopping AP-blocking, no more adding a day to abandoned eggs, creating an on-site market, the trading hub... I'm sure there're way more of those example around. 

 

So, let's see what the options are.

  1. Do nothing. Probably the worst kind of "solution" to any given problem. Because problems don't usually go away on their own. And this one annoys people enough so that they bring it up time and again and again. So, it's definitely a persisting problem in the eyes of some of us.
  2. Limit breeding per scroll. One way to solve the existing problem, but thereby limiting the players causing said problem as well as those who are considered to be not part of the problem. However, considering the whole "But I might like to breed my 2nd gen Prizes / SAs/ SAkins/2nd gen Thuweds/other rares" - well, why don't you? Why do we never see walls of those around? Well? Because you usually don't. So I feel like this argument of "I might like to..." doesn't really fly. It's probably still not the best way to handle things, so let's look further. Another thing to consider is Holiday events - because, let's be honest, we need to expect the same limits to apply to those.
  3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed. Might help a lot - but could also cause issues with "bad" eggs hiding "good" eggs, resulting in all of them running out of time. However, as Kila helpfully pointed out, low-time eggs get snatched up rather quickly, so this might actually work. What it won't achieve any more is forcing the timers in the whole AP to go down. And, no, the argument of "but I might like to breed my unwanted eggs first and my highly desirable eggs last" isn't an argument against this, either. There's only a very limited number of people who have the ability to breed lots and lots of very desirable eggs anyway. I don't think their "but I might like to" argument supersedes the wish of others to be able to use the AP without having to adopt someone's favorite common breed.
  4. Limit the amount of eggs of one breed being displayed. Once again, there's the risk of "good" eggs hiding behind "bad" eggs - and all of them running out of time. Also doesn't help if one breeder decides to breed a ton of "bad" eggs of various breeds.
  5. A combination of 3 and 4. Maybe?
  6. A way to filter what you see in the AP. Probably by breed. Taking the wall-breeding development into account, we might have to use more than one filter in cases where one wall follows another, but we'd also need a limit on how many breeds we don't want to see, or some enterprising soul will come up with the idea to not see anything save for rares. Which is a no-go.

 

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Only TJ can say whether or not something is something he can code. Of the suggestions so far in this thread I think the solution I proposed is probably the one with the least impact on any one person's play style while still providing a consistently varied AP.

Edited by Fiona

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17 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

You know why I hate these threads? (which seem to happen anytime there is a wall...shouldn't they be getting closed as duplicates?)  They operate on the assumption that "if X BREED wasn't there I could find all the good stuff I want but because I don't like X BREED everything is terrible".  This a flawed perspective. The AP is a trash heap, you are NEVER guaranteed to find nice things.  A horde of a one type of egg just makes it easier to see that there is currently nothing you want.   As apposed to trawling for minutes or even hours and still coming up with nothing you currently like/want.

 

I really, really like this post here. Because most people honestly don't see 'walls' in this manner, even though it's a completely accurate *fact* about the AP. 

 

That Blacktip-and-Celestial wall? Nothing in there I wanted. Nothing at all. I honestly didn't even pick any up because I don't want any more of either breed, regardless of lineage. HOWEVER, the AP right at this minute has 11 different breeds showing.... And STILL not one single egg I want. That is the way the AP operates, regardless of how anyone may personally *view* the AP: Whether you look at it as a trash heap, a flea market, whatever, the AP shows what has been abandoned. That's it. It does *not* show all even-gens, or all messies, or even a mix of both... It doesn't show all Blacktips, or a variety of breeds... It shows what is abandoned, *whatever* that may be. If it's not showing a wall, that does NOT mean it's showing stuff you want! Having less walls does NOT automatically mean a better selection in the AP.

 

And honestly, if a restriction on breeding-per-user is implemented, the complaints aren't going to stop, only shift. Next we will have complaints about all the messies in the AP, or all the commonXholiday lineages in the AP, and suggestions about restricting those as well! Walls are only a problem because some vocal users don't personally like what is in the wall.... That's not going to end with this suggestion. Users still aren't going to like what's in the AP, probably a good deal of the time. And they will still complain. Walls are not the one-and-only barrier to finding the specific thing you want in the AP, and restricting breeding is not going to help as much as people seem to think.

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53 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

Now that really IS hostage-taking. "Stop talking about this in public or we'll stop being Mr. Nice Guy and REALLY ruin the AP for you"??? Let's hope there aren't very many people with that kind of attitude around, "otherwise cheerful" or not!

 

In any case, assuming that the vast majority of massbreeders are NOT "otherwise cheerful terrorists" but normal players who just like breeding a lot for any of several perfectly valid reasons, one would not think they would have any reason to object to a limit of how many of their eggs show on the AP at a time. They would still get to breed whenever and however they please; their eggs would still all eventually get picked up; the ratios would still eventually be influenced in their favor. The only thing that would change is that other users would get to play the game the way THEY want to while it was going on. That's an extraordinarily reasonable compromise, if it's codable.

 

 

Sure it's hostage taking - but so is saying "we all know nasty people are only doing it to annoy." We know no such thing.

 

45 minutes ago, olympe said:

 

We've also had some issues solved by hashing them out as a community or merely by getting the idea out there. Stopping AP-blocking, no more adding a day to abandoned eggs, creating an on-site market, the trading hub... I'm sure there're way more of those example around. 

 

So, let's see what the options are.

  1. Do nothing. Probably the worst kind of "solution" to any given problem. Because problems don't usually go away on their own. And this one annoys people enough so that they bring it up time and again and again. So, it's definitely a persisting problem in the eyes of some of us.
  2. Limit breeding per scroll. One way to solve the existing problem, but thereby limiting the players causing said problem as well as those who are considered to be not part of the problem. However, considering the whole "But I might like to breed my 2nd gen Prizes / SAs/ SAkins/2nd gen Thuweds/other rares" - well, why don't you? Why do we never see walls of those around? Well? Because you usually don't. So I feel like this argument of "I might like to..." doesn't really fly. It's probably still not the best way to handle things, so let's look further. Another thing to consider is Holiday events - because, let's be honest, we need to expect the same limits to apply to those.
  3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed. Might help a lot - but could also cause issues with "bad" eggs hiding "good" eggs, resulting in all of them running out of time. However, as Kila helpfully pointed out, low-time eggs get snatched up rather quickly, so this might actually work. What it won't achieve any more is forcing the timers in the whole AP to go down. And, no, the argument of "but I might like to breed my unwanted eggs first and my highly desirable eggs last" isn't an argument against this, either. There's only a very limited number of people who have the ability to breed lots and lots of very desirable eggs anyway. I don't think their "but I might like to" argument supersedes the wish of others to be able to use the AP without having to adopt someone's favorite common breed.
  4. Limit the amount of eggs of one breed being displayed. Once again, there's the risk of "good" eggs hiding behind "bad" eggs - and all of them running out of time. Also doesn't help if one breeder decides to breed a ton of "bad" eggs of various breeds.
  5. A combination of 3 and 4. Maybe?
  6. A way to filter what you see in the AP. Probably by breed. Taking the wall-breeding development into account, we might have to use more than one filter in cases where one wall follows another, but we'd also need a limit on how many breeds we don't want to see, or some enterprising soul will come up with the idea to not see anything save for rares. Which is a no-go.

 

 

1. I'm OK with that, actually.

2. No way.

3. Just possible

4 Not OK if someone wants to  look for a particular breed.

5 no because 4.

6 No - because that is exactly what would happen - people filtering to show only rares or uncommons. (Also I recall TJ said there should never be something that means one player sees the AP differently from another player. We all have to see the same AP.

 And yes I know he can change his mind - but it was pretty clear on this one that he wouldn't.)

 

I think Fi's suggestion is the only possible one - but I'm sure it would make many players wildly unhappy. Because anything always does.

 

7 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I really, really like this post here. Because most people honestly don't see 'walls' in this manner, even though it's a completely accurate *fact* about the AP. 

 

That Blacktip-and-Celestial wall? Nothing in there I wanted. Nothing at all. I honestly didn't even pick any up because I don't want any more of either breed, regardless of lineage. HOWEVER, the AP right at this minute has 11 different breeds showing.... And STILL not one single egg I want. That is the way the AP operates, regardless of how anyone may personally *view* the AP: Whether you look at it as a trash heap, a flea market, whatever, the AP shows what has been abandoned. That's it. It does *not* show all even-gens, or all messies, or even a mix of both... It doesn't show all Blacktips, or a variety of breeds... It shows what is abandoned, *whatever* that may be. If it's not showing a wall, that does NOT mean it's showing stuff you want! Having less walls does NOT automatically mean a better selection in the AP.

 

And honestly, if a restriction on breeding-per-user is implemented, the complaints aren't going to stop, only shift. Next we will have complaints about all the messies in the AP, or all the commonXholiday lineages in the AP, and suggestions about restricting those as well! Walls are only a problem because some vocal users don't personally like what is in the wall.... That's not going to end with this suggestion. Users still aren't going to like what's in the AP, probably a good deal of the time. And they will still complain. Walls are not the one-and-only barrier to finding the specific thing you want in the AP, and restricting breeding is not going to help as much as people seem to think.

 

I really like THIS post. No-one is going to be happy, whatever is done or not done, and whatever change is or is not made to anything at all, there will always be people who want something ELSE,. something MORE, something that makes their play style better for them - whatever it might do to the play styles of others.

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15 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Sure it's hostage taking - but so is saying "we all know nasty people are only doing it to annoy." We know no such thing.

We actually do. Because in one of the last threads about this, people actually stated that they were doing so because they didn't like the thread... So, yes, we know. We actually know straight from the source.

 

33 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Walls are only a problem because some vocal users don't personally like what is in the wall....

Apparently, there's a lot of "vocal" users who dislike walls - or this topic wouldn't come up time and again. Also, there seem to be some very vocal users who think it's their turn to decide how ratios are supposed to be by pretty much forcing others to deal with the eggs they breed. There are other users who decide it's time to "bring down timers in the AP" by breeding junk nobody wants to pick up, thinking everyone wins if they do. Newsflash, everyone doesn't win. And, of course, there seem to be some very vocal users who think it's their privilege to drop their countless eggs on the AP, users who expect others to pick up and raise THEIR eggs because someone will have to, or the AP is gone for everyone until they do.

 

And, considering how incredibly huge scrolls get these days, a single user can block the AP for days on end. I'm almost tempted to prove this by breeding my whole scroll of roughly 7500 adults with random mates to the AP and see how long it last - the emphasis being on almost because I'm not an ass. I'm pretty sure that, considering my scroll is mostly populated by commons that I should be able to breed somewhere around 1000 to 2000 eggs if I did. That's a lot of eggs - enough to force 125 to 250 platinum trophy players to fill their egg slots with my eggs and nothing but my eggs until they can have something else. This is a lot of power in the hands of every single active long-term player, affecting several hundred other players directly.

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You may not have found anything you liked, but since the wall cleared, I've found 10 things for myself so far and traded 2, so what you like and what I like are different things; hence my point why variety and choice is a good thing.

 Why should what one person likes be more valid than others? It shouldn't. I'm saying I'd like to have the choice.

 

That's entirely unfair to say if I get what I want, all I'm going to do is complain because I want more. I've never raised any issues since I've been onsite. Change isn't always a bad thing and ppl who are asking for change aren't greedy, and insatiable. I'm looking at what can more fairly balance things.
--The AP says Near the entrance to the cave, there is a huge pile of abandoned eggs. If you don’t want the dragons inside to die, you can take one of those instead. And inside it says: Once an egg has been touched by a human, the human’s scent rubs off onto the egg. The mother dragon then will reject the egg and no longer be able to tell that it is her own. That’s why these abandoned eggs and hatchlings are just sitting outside the cave, dying, and the mother dragon isn’t doing anything about them.--
There's nothing about trash or unwanted.


We've had loads of positive changes to the game over the years that makes things so much more inclusive. I am not understanding the strong resistance to making a more balanced AP for ALL play styles. Remember when we only had x amount of breeds in the biomes? Ppl voiced that it would be much more fun with a greater selection: positive change! And look at all the other positive change that Olympe listed, and also the Holiday Biome that lets us get old dragons! That's a magnificently positive change!
 

Olympe, I like 3,4,5

Hard no for #1 as it's not working ideally any more as is. #2 as an absolute last resort.
 

 
Snip: "whatever it might do to the play styles of others"----I'm explaining that my play style is currently greatly impacted by one breed walls that last for more than a few hours. Am I less important? Do I not matter?
 
(Also pls can we stop referring to 'many ppl don't want this' or 'many ppl will be unhappy' 
we can each only speak for ourselves.)
  Not allowing change because it *might* do such and such is not a reason to halt progress. Instead, like I keep suggesting, can we find a way to compromise and make things a bit more balanced?

 

Edited by Uther_Pendragon
I'm wordy and can't spell

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9 hours ago, purplehaze said:

We do not know that and making assumptions and accusations like that is what derailed this discussion the last time and forced the mods to close it down.

 

 

51 minutes ago, olympe said:

We actually do. Because in one of the last threads about this, people actually stated that they were doing so because they didn't like the thread... So, yes, we know. We actually know straight from the source.

 

Both of these quotes are relevant to what I have to say, so here goes:

 

1. People's motives for creating AP walls don't matter. What matters is that we can create walls, they can block up the AP for hours, and we're trying to see if a solution can be found by creating these threads.

 

2. Discussing people's motives for creating walls is what's been derailing these threads trying to find a solution to the wall. Please don't derail this thread with that either, it's really irrelevant to solving the problem. It will also, again, force us to close this thread down because the discussions tend to get toxic very fast when we focus more on the motive that creates the wall rather than keeping walls from being created.

 

For my two cents on olympe's summary of ideas: 1 is my favorite, and 6 only if the filter didn't include species that don't hang out in the AP long to begin with, like Xenos, Silvers, and Golds. 

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Oh now that's good, too, the filter with exceptions! I like that.

 

So I like Fiona's first

PPDC filter suggestion 2nd,

then Heather Marie's 3rd.

 

 

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Just to give 1 more opinion on all of olympe's suggestions:

1. Do nothing -> Fine by me.

2. Limit breeding per scroll -> Hell no.

3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed -> Could work in good or bad ways.

4. Limit the Amount of eggs of one breed being displayed -> Similar opinion to suggestion 3 though I like it slightly more (= provides more variety than 3).

5. A combination of 3 and 4 -> Could work but might be too complicated to code? (I take this as similar to Fi's idea... hope I got that right)

6. A way to filter what you see in the AP -> I doubt that will ever happen but if it does I'd rather have an option to "hide" up to 3 or 5 breeds as a way to filter instead of being able to select "I only wanna see breed X and Y" (simply because it would still keep the AP somewhat random).

 

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8 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

This is so very true. Remember the "solution" to the sweetlings? Ended up with NOBODY happy

 

 

That was an entirely different issue, and I really don't appreciate how passive aggressive you're coming off about it (I'm a person with feelings, and that gesture of goodwill had caused me nothing but drama so I put an end to it). Mine and TJ's decision about Sweetling breeding has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and you're free to disagree with it, but please don't use it as a way to demean anyone here or derail this topic. If you really want to discuss it and understand my reasoning further, please do so in PMs.

 

Back to the topic at hand, on the last page I went into more detail on how filtering the AP would work. I'll restate it here, so maybe it won't get lost this time.

 

Instead of filtering what you want to see on the AP, because that would end up with people abusing the system and camping for rares, there would be an option to toggle breeds you don't want to see. Users could choose a number of breeds, from 3 to 5, that they wish to exclude from their view of the AP. This is to cover the potential of there being multiple walls, because what good would filtering out a wall Mints be only to end up with a wall of Greens that you're stuck with (I picked random breeds of the top of my head).

 

This way people could control their AP viewing experience without being held hostage by walls, which is a very good description for it, because walls force people to pick up things they may not want, forcing them into a playstyle they don't want.

 

I feel like allowing players to filter out what they don't want to see is a decent solution and worth discussing. It prevents people from camping for rares while still allowing them to have variety on the AP.

 

The only reason I prefer filtering over controlling how many eggs per breeder is displayed on the AP is simply because of how complicated it would be to code the later. Instead if just taking note of the breed of the egg, the code would have to take into account the owner of the egg's parents, and so on.

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I would totally be fine with the 'solution' to AP walls being the ability to filter the AP, but I very strongly doubt that is a realistic ask. TJ himself has posted very definitively that everyone sees the same thing in the AP and that won't change (he specifically shot down one of my suggestions with that, not too long ago). 

 

To go through the options posted:

 

1. Do nothing -> Will always be my preference because I honestly believe walls are only a bad thing if you view them a specific way

2. Limit breeding per scroll -> No no no and no. Even regardless of my personal feelings about this one, I really don't think it would be a positive change for the majority of users.

3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed -> My personal favorite (if something must be done at all)

4. Limit the Amount of eggs of one breed being displayed -> This could work too, but it would have to be a realistic number (no 'only 1 egg per breed!!!' stuff)

5. A combination of 3 and 4 -> Could work? Sounds pretty complicated though.

6. A way to filter what you see in the AP -> Sure. I'd go for it. But yeah, doubt that'll happen.

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7 hours ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

--The AP says Near the entrance to the cave, there is a huge pile of abandoned eggs. If you don’t want the dragons inside to die, you can take one of those instead. And inside it says: Once an egg has been touched by a human, the human’s scent rubs off onto the egg. The mother dragon then will reject the egg and no longer be able to tell that it is her own. That’s why these abandoned eggs and hatchlings are just sitting outside the cave, dying, and the mother dragon isn’t doing anything about them.--

 

I've always liked this little explanation. In a calm way it sets the scene to some simple, happy, game play. But these days it doesn't do the trick anymore.  Now the AP feels like and industrial area with eggs being mass produced to build walls. Or, I might find wave after wave of different kinds of eggs produced by a single player. These might be different species, but somehow they seem alike.  Whatever solution you come up with, please bring back the good old Dragon Cave atmosphere. The game is more than just being about the management of large numbers of eggs.

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Gonna quote a suggestion I had from the last page about filtering:

 

23 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

What if, when there's a wall like there was the other day, there was an option to... Switch the wall off? If the page notices it's got over 30 eggs from the same scroll being bred, there could be an option to filter them all out, so that everything in the AP except that person's eggs could be shown (perhaps on a separate AP page so you can easily click between the two)? Idk, probably a coding nightmare, but would be cool.

 

I don't know if it's even worth mentioning due to being unrealistic but I still think it'd be nice.

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20 hours ago, Fiona said:

Ok look... wall's gone.

 

That's what usually happens if you wait a couple hours.

 

 

And now there's a wall of celestials.  That's what usually happens if you wait a couple hours.

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Another one-breed wall is happening now. I'm curious how long this one will last. (It began approx 6:45 CST)
As I said, these aren't just happening once in a while, which wouldn't be an issue for me, nor would short one-breed walls. These are happening at least a couple times a week and lasting longer and longer. 

 

 

Hmm We have the release option for adult dragons, what if we added a release option for eggs? It could say 'you release this egg so the dragon will grow up in the wild'


 

In the trading hub, we all see the same thing, the filter just narrows things. Is a filter option the easiest to code? Kila, I like the option to filter out more than one breed, because I can see the potential of concurrent walls. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Uther_Pendragon
Added timeframe

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7 minutes ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

Another one-breed wall is happening now. I'm curious how long this one will last. (It began approx 6:45 CST)
As I said, these aren't just happening once in a while, which wouldn't be an issue for me, nor would short one-breed walls. These are happening at least a couple times a week and lasting longer and longer. 

 

 

 

 

 

And messy celestials to boot.  All over 4 days.  Well, there goes Sunday on the AP.

 

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