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wobster109

Per-scroll breeding limit

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In game, the AP is not described as a trash heap, not anywhere. Not the front page or the ap page itself.

 

 It's not 'everything is terrible' nor is it 'I don't like x breed' it's more about why should one person have control over a big part of a game that thousands play?
  Why should there be only one breed available in ap for an entire day/days? I like trawling for minutes or hours if I have time, checking out lineages, hoping for a specific type of egg, so many things. Even if I don't find exactly what I want, I'd certainly appreciate having a choice. One breed all day or longer leaves no choices.

 How can we make it more inclusive for ALL play styles? 
 

 

 

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"In my experience, ER and other low time eggs get snatched up in the AP in a heartbeat"----the blacktips have been ER time close to most of the day now, and still not clearing. They're not getting snapped up, or if they are, there's more than people either want or have slots to hold.
The last handful of long walls have been pretty close to the same. It wouldn't be so urgh to me if it weren't so often. One whole day a month of single breed ap is one thing, but this is happening a couple times per week now. 
  

 
 

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Well, I personally like to have variation on my scroll. Not just by breed but also by the lineage and by who owns and names the parents (as they might name them similarly to other adults on their scroll). So I don't even like having too many eggs from the same breeder and it annoys me if I crab too many of theirs, even if they were different breeds.

 

I think limiting the breeding is just too complex, it would have to be an AP change.

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Yes--debating the motives is what gets discussions off track.  It's frustrating to have a free hour to play in the AP, but have it be walled off with one kind of egg, all of them bred, that lasts for days even when they are under 4 days.  It just blocks off the AP for literally everyone other than a few people.  Something needs to change.  We need another kind of mechanic.

Edited by random_dragon_collector

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13 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

I'm mostly ignoring the current wall, figuring walls just gonna happen', but also still in favour of instead just displaying things differently, as mentioned here: https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/185180-cave-blockages-ap/?do=findComment&comment=9851324 - which would mean no limits for the breeders.

 

(Skimming through that topic, I'm reminded that it got closed because people were fighting about mass breeds; if you (generic) too want this thread to survive, I recommend going an extra mile for mutual respect when posting. ❤️)

I am agreed with Pinkgothic, here, tbh.

 

I don't like limiting WHAT and HOW MUCH people can breed. For a variety of reasons that others have already mentioned.

 

I'd be MORE in favor of changing how the AP was displayed. 

 

That is IF it is a problem that needs addressing AT ALL.

For myself I go hunt the biomes if there is nothing on the AP I want.... or do something else.

Edited by JavaTigress

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17 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

You know why I hate these threads? (which seem to happen anytime there is a wall...shouldn't they be getting closed as duplicates?)  They operate on the assumption that "if X BREED wasn't there I could find all the good stuff I want but because I don't like X BREED everything is terrible".  This a flawed perspective. The AP is a trash heap, you are NEVER guaranteed to find nice things.  A horde of a one type of egg just makes it easier to see that there is currently nothing you want.   As apposed to trawling for minutes or even hours and still coming up with nothing you currently like/want.

 

I really, really like this post here. Because most people honestly don't see 'walls' in this manner, even though it's a completely accurate *fact* about the AP. 

 

That Blacktip-and-Celestial wall? Nothing in there I wanted. Nothing at all. I honestly didn't even pick any up because I don't want any more of either breed, regardless of lineage. HOWEVER, the AP right at this minute has 11 different breeds showing.... And STILL not one single egg I want. That is the way the AP operates, regardless of how anyone may personally *view* the AP: Whether you look at it as a trash heap, a flea market, whatever, the AP shows what has been abandoned. That's it. It does *not* show all even-gens, or all messies, or even a mix of both... It doesn't show all Blacktips, or a variety of breeds... It shows what is abandoned, *whatever* that may be. If it's not showing a wall, that does NOT mean it's showing stuff you want! Having less walls does NOT automatically mean a better selection in the AP.

 

And honestly, if a restriction on breeding-per-user is implemented, the complaints aren't going to stop, only shift. Next we will have complaints about all the messies in the AP, or all the commonXholiday lineages in the AP, and suggestions about restricting those as well! Walls are only a problem because some vocal users don't personally like what is in the wall.... That's not going to end with this suggestion. Users still aren't going to like what's in the AP, probably a good deal of the time. And they will still complain. Walls are not the one-and-only barrier to finding the specific thing you want in the AP, and restricting breeding is not going to help as much as people seem to think.

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9 hours ago, purplehaze said:

We do not know that and making assumptions and accusations like that is what derailed this discussion the last time and forced the mods to close it down.

 

 

51 minutes ago, olympe said:

We actually do. Because in one of the last threads about this, people actually stated that they were doing so because they didn't like the thread... So, yes, we know. We actually know straight from the source.

 

Both of these quotes are relevant to what I have to say, so here goes:

 

1. People's motives for creating AP walls don't matter. What matters is that we can create walls, they can block up the AP for hours, and we're trying to see if a solution can be found by creating these threads.

 

2. Discussing people's motives for creating walls is what's been derailing these threads trying to find a solution to the wall. Please don't derail this thread with that either, it's really irrelevant to solving the problem. It will also, again, force us to close this thread down because the discussions tend to get toxic very fast when we focus more on the motive that creates the wall rather than keeping walls from being created.

 

For my two cents on olympe's summary of ideas: 1 is my favorite, and 6 only if the filter didn't include species that don't hang out in the AP long to begin with, like Xenos, Silvers, and Golds. 

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7 hours ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

--The AP says Near the entrance to the cave, there is a huge pile of abandoned eggs. If you don’t want the dragons inside to die, you can take one of those instead. And inside it says: Once an egg has been touched by a human, the human’s scent rubs off onto the egg. The mother dragon then will reject the egg and no longer be able to tell that it is her own. That’s why these abandoned eggs and hatchlings are just sitting outside the cave, dying, and the mother dragon isn’t doing anything about them.--

 

I've always liked this little explanation. In a calm way it sets the scene to some simple, happy, game play. But these days it doesn't do the trick anymore.  Now the AP feels like and industrial area with eggs being mass produced to build walls. Or, I might find wave after wave of different kinds of eggs produced by a single player. These might be different species, but somehow they seem alike.  Whatever solution you come up with, please bring back the good old Dragon Cave atmosphere. The game is more than just being about the management of large numbers of eggs.

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20 hours ago, Fiona said:

Ok look... wall's gone.

 

That's what usually happens if you wait a couple hours.

 

 

And now there's a wall of celestials.  That's what usually happens if you wait a couple hours.

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7 minutes ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

Another one-breed wall is happening now. I'm curious how long this one will last. (It began approx 6:45 CST)
As I said, these aren't just happening once in a while, which wouldn't be an issue for me, nor would short one-breed walls. These are happening at least a couple times a week and lasting longer and longer. 

 

 

 

 

 

And messy celestials to boot.  All over 4 days.  Well, there goes Sunday on the AP.

 

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I don't mind the lineages, I freeze and do other things, it's just the lack of variety of breed, and one person controlling a large section of the game for increasingly longer times that bothers me.

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3 minutes ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

I don't mind the lineages, I freeze and do other things, it's just the lack of variety of breed, and one person controlling a large section of the game for increasingly longer times that bothers me.

 

This.  Any mechanic that allows one person to take over a major portion of the game for most of a day is a problem.

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1 hour ago, random_dragon_collector said:

 

This.  Any mechanic that allows one person to take over a major portion of the game for most of a day is a problem.

So very much this. I have my doubts that one person being able to take over the AP for the major part of a day is an intended gameplay mechanic.

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I feel that, unfortunately, clutches are a part of the issue. Most mass breeds involve celestials and tonnes of them. I breed a celestial and get 1 egg if I am lucky! So annoying. Even so it would still be an issue as people would band together to do it.

 

Maybe after having breed a certain number of eggs, the chances for successful breeding drops. E.g. after 250 eggs bred the chances drop 20% if clutch 20% per possible egg. And have the chances to successfully have an egg drop again after another specific number of eggs bred, maybe cap it at a certain % and reset the next day or two. 
 

I know fertility is a thing, though, maybe this should surpass it. It lets players breed but not as excessively. 

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Let's stay on topic in here, Pls and take anything else to pm, thanks so much! This issue is one that directly impacts me and I'd like the chance to reach a good compromise, and hopefully make some positive changes to enhance user experience. I don't feel that change, to make the game more inclusive, and allowing greater diversity, should cause many grumbles.

 

Which idea of the ones proposed is the easiest to code?

 

Would fast shuffle work, or would we still see endless amounts of the same breed egg for long periods?

 

 

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"To clarify - limiting the eggs shown per breeder would only come into play if they have multiple eggs in the lowest timed 30"

 

I'd think that would be automatic. If we are all limited to three eggs displayed in the AP at a time, a breeder who already has three or fewer eggs on the front page wouldn't be affected.

 

I don't massbreed per se, but I do breed more than three eggs on many occasions, and I would have zero problems with my own bred eggs being staggered this way when I do.

 

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Ah, cool. I've always viewed it differently, like the accidental human touch caused the issue, not that they were unwanted. Trash to treasure indeed!

 

Showing x eggs per breeder seems quite fair. Is there any downside? I don't normally breed large amounts, except during holidays. (And I wouldn't mind mine being staggered during those times)

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34 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

As far as functionality, the AP is where people put unwanted eggs regardless of reason for abandoning them.  They had to be actively abandoned, or otherwise not chosen (multiclutching).  Although the term "garbage dump" isn't the kindest, I do find it to be the best analogy.  One man's trash is another man's treasure.

(Emphasis by me.) That's not actually true - ever heard the term "auto abandoned" - or "auto'ed" for short?

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20 minutes ago, olympe said:

(Emphasis by me.) That's not actually true - ever heard the term "auto abandoned" - or "auto'ed" for short?

But that only accounts for a small percentage of eggs in the AP. There are certainly not walls of them. ;) We are talking about walls.

 

I am dead set against limiting breeding. However, I am beginning to get quite frustrated with walls. They seem to be becoming more frequent and larger. Even if they only last "a few hours" it is not good if that is the only few hours I have for AP hunting today and there is nothing in that wall that interests me. I do sometimes grab and hatch a few and then reabandon to get them out of the way, but that has a very limited effect and keeps me from breeding or cave hunting until they are gone. I would much rather fill my egg slots with things that I actually want, you know.

 

I could live with having only a certain number of a breeder's eggs showing at one time. (although maybe more than 3?) You can still breed all you want for all the good reasons you have for doing that, but it will not interfere with the players that don't want what you are breeding.

 

1 hour ago, tjekan said:

Another idea, which I brought up in the earlier thread, is that whenever an egg was picked up and discarded again it could get kicked to the back of the queue. This would enable users to break an unwanted wall themselves (and also reduce the amount of wasted time picking up and dropping the same AP egg over and over.) It could be disabled on eggs 3 days or lower, to prevent it from causing low time eggs to die behind higher time ones.

I really don't like that idea. It assumes that an egg that has been dropped by the person who picked it up is an undesirable, or less desirable, egg, but that is often not the case. Sometimes I am trolling for CBs that I can quickly turn into hatchlings. I might drop a lot of nice lineages because that isn't what I want right then. Other times I am looking for pretty lineages and it is the CBs that get tossed back. Neither of those deserve to be sent to the end of the queue.

 

Edited by purplehaze

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@purplehaze I'm reasonably sure that most walls are the result of breeding after your scroll is locked - thus the eggs are auto'ed. Because breeding, clicking on the egg's view page, clicking on the action page, clicking on abandon, confirming this with your password, ENTER *and* another click on a pop-up is a long process to walk through for literally hundreds of eggs.

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Today's one-breed wall was just shy of 5 hrs before other eggs started mixing in. 
3 eggs per breeder, in the lowest timed 30, is a goodly amount, allowing 10 breeder's eggs to be viewed and chosen from. 


If the shuffle was faster, the 'sent to back of queue' could potentially be workable. It'd be like the biomes, if you didn't grab it when it's presented, you're out of luck. At least w the queue idea, you'd get a 2nd chance to maybe grab a specific egg again.

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1 hour ago, tjekan said:

Another idea, which I brought up in the earlier thread, is that whenever an egg was picked up and discarded again it could get kicked to the back of the queue.

 

What would "the back of the queue" mean? That the egg's time is changed to "7 days left" (so it goes to the literal end of the queue of abandoned eggs that exist at that moment)?

(Edit: and what would happen a few days later when those same 500 wall eggs appear again, all at the same time, and are re-abandoned again...?)

 

If the number of a breeder's eggs to be shown in the AP is limited, I would prefer something like 6 eggs per breeder. 3 seems a bit low.

Edited by Confused Cat

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3 minutes ago, Confused Cat said:

 

What would "the back of the queue" mean? That the egg's time is changed to "7 days left" (so it goes to the literal end of the queue of abandoned eggs that exist at that moment)?

(Edit: and what would happen a few days later when those same 500 wall eggs appear again, all at the same time, and are re-abandoned again...?)

 

If the number of a breeder's eggs to be shown in the AP is limited, I would prefer something like 6 eggs per breeder. 3 seems a bit low.

 

This. The eggs  displayed really need to be basically in order of time left - lowest first. (and I agree - 3 eggs per is too low.)

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12 minutes ago, olympe said:

@purplehaze I'm reasonably sure that most walls are the result of breeding after your scroll is locked - thus the eggs are auto'ed. Because breeding, clicking on the egg's view page, clicking on the action page, clicking on abandon, confirming this with your password, ENTER *and* another click on a pop-up is a long process to walk through for literally hundreds of eggs.

Fair enough, but to me that doesn't mean that they aren't deliberately abandoned. The breeder "chose" to send them to the AP as unwanted eggs. But I didn't intend to get into an argument over that point.

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