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Kaini

Neglected Dragons

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I would really advise you to be awake during your experiment. I know some websites allow you to set up ARs in advance but afaik you still need someone to put the egg into hatcheries. 

 

If you go for the teleport method, you can set a two-way trade hours in advance and have your friend offer on it… but you still need to accept that offer after the eggs turns ND, which means you need to be there. 

 

I would just pick up another fodder in the AP.  Brimstones are very common and work for the solo method. For the teleport method, any regular egg works so you have plenty of choices.

 

 

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I might just try it out with a brim or a self-bred zyu that I can control the ToD of then - this egg’s ToD is drawing ever nearer and I am severely doubting my ability and desire to stay up that late in order to conduct the experiment, not to mention exhaustion would just be a recipe for disaster caused by forgetting something. I want an ND but it’s not worth running myself into the ground for pixel dragons, lol.

 

Oh well, at least I’ve had time to summon up a little more confidence and figure out how to track a ToD if needed. =D 

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An exp died with what I had previously assumed to be safe stats for hatching. Either it was a very rare high-hatch-threshold ND, or the view/hatch system went wonky (possible, I've had occasional weird issues with high-ar exps in the past). Either way, don't be like me and always make sure to have extra hatchery pages ready during solos even if you don't think you need them. 

183371495_SmartSelect_20220731-160201_SamsungInternet.jpg.368f4af0073daff2571f25aed3576bdd.jpg

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Update: there's a chance TJ tweaked neglecteds recently as someone else just lost two turned eggs with similar numbers. If this isn't due to some unfortunate are glitch, then most likely he adjusted their base stubbornness to match brimstone level, meaning the only truly safe method is with zyu-level eggs. I shall do testing with future exps to narrow down possibilities.

Edited by Shadowdrake

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It seems more likely this is an overall change to view requirements, as brimstones are reportedly refusing to hatch at up to 128 uvs. Will report back after more extensive tests.

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I wonder if it was tweaked so all stubborn breeds match each other more or something? Or just so the stubborn breeds are even more markedly stubborn than they were before. I doubt Brims, Nhios, NDs and so forth will be anywhere near the level of Zyus/Avatars/Prizes anytime soon, but it definitely appears their stubbornness has become even more pronounced. 

 

I don’t know if anyone’s attempted experiments on hybrids, but they should most likely be handled with care as well if so - it may just be my perception, but it seems like the view stats for their hatching threshold have been increased as well. I just had a few Sophrosyne that struck me as strangely reluctant to start cracking as they gained views, then a Jester who also appeared to to unusually long. I then obtained a Royal Eminence and paid attention to it, and it refused to crack until ~2000 OV, whereas my previous ones were at an S5 crack by 2000 OV and with the same amount of UV. I never knew hybrids to be anymore stubborn than the average dragon before now.

 

Again, it could just be my perception, but it looks like TJ could have possibly tweaked hatch stats in general, even for normally non-stubborn breeds? I’ll definitely try to actively keep an eye out to see if it’s not just me.

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View requirements aside, I wonder if there's been an alteration to ND turning. I've had huge success with FART the last few weeks but I have changed my method so it could be that.

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On 8/8/2022 at 11:26 PM, FortyTwo said:

View requirements aside, I wonder if there's been an alteration to ND turning. I've had huge success with FART the last few weeks but I have changed my method so it could be that.

Can I ask you what your new method is please?   I've made nine ND's with Zyu's  following instructions from Shadowdrake and Kaini but I still don't have a successful method, as it were.  I was told I'd get a 'feel' for it, but that's not happened.  I've not tried in quite a while because they stopped turning.

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1 hour ago, Quinney said:

Can I ask you what your new method is please?   I've made nine ND's with Zyu's  following instructions from Shadowdrake and Kaini but I still don't have a successful method, as it were.  I was told I'd get a 'feel' for it, but that's not happened.  I've not tried in quite a while because they stopped turning.

Here's what I do now.

  1. Use a Zyu preloaded to 125 UVs. Idk anything about view maximums but highest I turned at was over 700.
  2. Prepare it in FART in advance. I put my TOD in and save a link to it.
  3. AR it with 1m 20s remaining and just go nuts with it.
  4. No need to bother with ERs, it insta-hatches every time if it turns. But you can add it to ERs with 50s left if you want.

You can adjust FART's refresh rate. As the dev of this tool, my recommendation is using 10-20 instances in adaptive mode. This setting is tailored specifically to the device, internet connection and dragcave response speed. It's theoretically the maximum you can handle without dropped refreshes. Do some tests on another egg or hatchling to get used to the refresh rate.

 

There's a theory that an "ND check" is run every image load when the egg is under 1 minute until death, regardless of capped views. FART hits higher refresh rates than any of the other AR tools.

Edited by FortyTwo

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20 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

Truly neglected... 

artflow_202208161640.png

 

Am I seeing this wrong, or did this one turn with no stats at all?

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12 minutes ago, StarKaabi said:

Am I seeing this wrong, or did this one turn with no stats at all?

You're seeing it right! It didn't turn spontaneously though, I still had to refresh an image on par with regular AR numbers, it just wasn't the normal one.

 

Basically, I wondered if the image you see on your scroll could also turn eggs, since it makes the hatch but doesn't give views. I isolated a few eggs, did some setup to display a ton of the image on a private forums and refreshed manually until they turned. I don't think this is intended, as this might mean you can get a neglected just by refreshing your growings things page a lot, but it's a funny and interesting fact.

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By any chance was it BSorh, looks like there's an h at the end of the redacted code, if so I snagged it from the AP and honestly couldn't believe it was there at all and I got it not the least that it was 0 stated (didn't even think to get a screenshot), and if not I've encountered another

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6 minutes ago, Hawk said:

By any chance was it BSorh, looks like there's an h at the end of the redacted code, if so I snagged it from the AP and honestly couldn't believe it was there at all and I got it not the least that it was 0 stated (didn't even think to get a screenshot), and if not I've encountered another

Yes, actually! I don't need neglecteds for much these days, mostly just making them for data gathering/fun, so since I couldn't be bothered to find a partner for teleport I just abandoned it 😛

 

Congrats on your new neglected, and fancy seeing you here ^^

 

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14 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

Yes, actually! I don't need neglecteds for much these days, mostly just making them for data gathering/fun, so since I couldn't be bothered to find a partner for teleport I just abandoned it 😛

 

Congrats on your new neglected, and fancy seeing you here ^^

 

How cool to be a part of this experiment! I was honestly watching the forums to see if anyone bemoaned their mistake, and I don't have the stomach to make them so if not for this bud I might have never had one. It will be much cherished 🥰!!

Edited by Hawk
typo itching my brain

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Wow, congrats on that find! I lurk the AP everyday just hoping by some off chance a runaway ND will appear and I'd be fast enough to catch it, lol.

 

I did manage to get my first one a few days ago, thanks to a friend! It wasn't my exp, but she found it being given away and got it for me. Even if I didn't create it myself, I'm so happy to finally have an ND of my own!

 

I still want to get more some day, but right now I don't think I have the confidence or precision to actually carry out my own experiment quite yet. Ah well, we'll see how things go in the future. xD

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6 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

Truly neglected... 

artflow_202208161640.png

 

 

Nice.

 

Wish I had more time to experiment... I miss the little guys

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This has probably been posted a million times by others but, here is my own simplified take on the methods and info. Steps first, details later.

 

My Method 1: The egg, once turned, will instantly hatch.

Works ONLY for eggs of the following breed: Prizes, Zyumorphs, Avatars, Brimstones, Tetras, Luminae, Nhiostrifes, and Fire Gems.

  1. Obtain your egg and find the minute and second it dies. Incubating it is optional.
  2. Add the egg to hatcheries and watch it closely. You want your egg to hit a certain amount of Unique Views before fogging it and leaving it alone.
    • If your egg is a Prize, Zyumorph, or Avatar, gain 115 to 140 Unique Views. Any more than that risks an early hatch.
    • If your egg is a Brimstone, Tetra, Lumina, Nhiostrife, or Fire Gem, gain 110 to 115 Unique Views. Any more than that risks an early hatch.
  3. Wait for the day of your experiment. 5 minutes before death, get your AR set up and ready. 2 minutes before death, start your AR, sit back, and wait.

 

My Method 2: The egg must be caught upon turning.

Works for eggs of ANY breed, other than pygmies/two-heads/drakes and unbreedables.

  1. Obtain your egg and find the minute and second it dies. You must Incubate it. Keep it fogged.
  2. You need a catcher, so find a partner and sort things out. You may use a one-way or two-way teleport to catch; the former relies on your partner's speed, the latter on your own speed.
  3. Wait for the day of your experiment. 5 minutes before death, get your AR set up and ready, and message your partner the one-way or two-way teleport link. 2 minutes before death, start your AR.
    • If you sent a one-way teleport: Your partner must watch the egg very attentively. They must accept the teleport the moment the egg turns.
    • If you sent a two-way teleport: Your partner must have made an offer at some point prior to or during the experiment. You must watch the egg very attentively. You must accept your partner's offer the moment the egg turns.

 

Detailed FAQ:

Spoiler

Q: How does the Neglecting mechanic work?

While the exact mechanics are a mystery, it is theorized that every time the egg is refreshed within its dying minute, the site rolls a "neglect check" which is a very, very tiny chance to turn the egg. The more the egg is refreshed within its dying minute, the more shots at the "check" the egg has. So, the basis of Neglecting an egg is to refresh it as much as possible right before it dies.

 

Q: How does each method "work"? Which method should I go with?

The basis of each method relies on some certain game mechanics to work.

  • Method 1: During the experiment, the egg will advance to a couple cracks before its views get "capped" or stuck. This is intended, because the egg is prevented from hatching early. The experiment will hinge entirely on AR power.
  • Method 2: Incubate removes a day from an egg's timer, and adds that day back once the egg is Teleported or abandoned. This gives a "grace day" to an Incubated egg if it is Teleported moments before its death. The egg is not given hatchery treatment at any point in time because views are not required to Neglect. Hatchery use comes afterward during the turned egg's "grace day".

Choosing one method over the other depends on your comfort level with either process. Method 1 does not need any catcher help - and therefore can be done alone - while Method 2 does not involve hatchery use. I would personally say Method 1 is more newbie-friendly.

 

Q: What is an AR? How do I use one?

AR = "auto refresher". It is a tool designed to reload your egg rapidly in its dying minutes.

There are three known AR sites: Allure's NDER, synditrix's AR, and FART. While all are capable of turning eggs, I strongly suggest sticking with FART as it is the least load-intensive and therefore the least prone to lagging up your browser.

 

You should use an AR as effectively as your browser allows and maximize its power:

  • In Allure's NDER this means opening and running the page on more than one tab.
  • In synditrix's AR this means turning on "toggle multi-entry mode" and copy/pasting your egg's code several times within the given box.
  • In FART this means setting your Instances amount to 10 or greater, while also setting your Rate time to as low as your browser can handle.

* synditrix's AR no longer appears to be online.

 

Q: How do I find the minute and second an egg dies?

Refer to the "Timing an Egg" section of Shadowdrake's guide.

Alternatively, this is how I do it in as little as two hours: If I find myself having a free hour at the computer, I set up a one-minute interval timer to start at the exact end of a clock minute. I refresh the egg's page every time the timer goes off. If the egg's time ticks down after a refresh, the egg's time of death is sometime within the minute prior. Next time that minute rolls around, I open time.is and continuously refresh the egg the whole minute until I can gather the exact second it ticks down again.

Additionally, if you have bred your own egg, the minute of the breeding is shown in your Action Log.

 

Q: My browser/internet is not very great. Is Neglecting still possible?

Absolutely, if you have friends to AR along with you during the experiment. In fact, you may want to have AR help even with a good computer, not only in case your internet drops or your browser crashes, but also since more ARs running = more reloads = better chance of success.

 

BONUS Method: The egg will turn without views, and must hatch with views. (This may be very tricky to attempt!)

Works for eggs of ANY breed, other than pygmies/two-heads/drakes and unbreedables.

Spoiler
  1. Obtain your egg and find the minute and second it dies. Incubating it is optional.
  2. Preload 105-110 Unique Views on the egg, while keeping the Overall Views amount as low as possible.
    • That part in red is important! You want as much room as possible under the OV cap, because you will exploit that room during the experiment.
    • You can do this with hatcheries; personally I find it more effective to stick the egg in a forum signature offsite and let it passively and slowly gain UV.
  3. Wait for the day of your experiment. 5 minutes before death, get FART set up and ready. The use of FART in this method is necessary, as you will take advantage of its "Disable views" feature. Make sure "Disable views" is checked.
  4. 2 minutes before death, start your AR. Watch your egg and wait for it to turn. The moment it turns, quickly uncheck "Disable views". The egg should hatch.

 

Edited by Lushwave

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I would like to confirm Lushwave's method for zyus/prizes/avatars, after a lot of experimenting I came basically to the same conclusions myself. Some added notes:

- I feel like ARing as close to the tod as possible increases chances. I used to start at 5min (with slower ARs) and had occasional success, now that I use FART it's fast enough to start with 2min or even less time left and I have considerably higher success.

- If the UVs are close to 140, I start very last minute and no ERs necessary. If UVs are 120 or less I start at 2min, and if it doesn't turn I'll ER it some time in the last minute.

 

I'm kind of curious about tetras, brimstones etc though, I haven't experimented much with them so I'll try using the numbers Lushwave suggested (and maybe stop depleting the CB zyu population for experiments).

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Well there's always one bumbling idiot, and I'm afraid it's me.  I bred the Zyu's using the FART method, used the timer countdown to the second for TOD and then blasted with four tabs of Allure AR. (20 egg slots). I've been told in the past that you can't blast it too much, but I've found out you can.  In what I thought was past the final seconds, I got normal hatchies. I guess it was a change from seeing dead eggs.  As far as Brimstones go, I have had them turn as hatchies on me in the past so I've got three that will be ready on Saturday night and I think they'll be lucky if I give them a minute.  I must be the only person on DC who's managed to make nine with pure luck and no method. I want an army!!!

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Wellll, sounds like you had too many UV? I don't know what the FART method is regarding breeding, but things you bred need less views to hatch, so drop the UV by a few. Maybe 110 max? And AOND's ar is a lot less efficient than just using the built-in FART ar (AOND is only every second or so vs FART's much faster speed, so much lower turn rate).

 

You really can't blast it too much as long it caps views without hatching, so just drop the preload UV and switch to FART's adaptive refresher and hopefully you'll see a turn or five. If FART still isn't enough to cap views early, your connection just might not be good enough for consistent AR turns.

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Running a little experiment with FART to see what my phone can handle. (Not a ND experiment, just testing it on one of my hatchies). It seems pretty good, so I feel a bit less terrified about possibly doing a Neglected exp now.

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3 hours ago, StarKaabi said:

Running a little experiment with FART to see what my phone can handle. (Not a ND experiment, just testing it on one of my hatchies). It seems pretty good, so I feel a bit less terrified about possibly doing a Neglected exp now.

 

For what it's worth, I've turned quite a few on mobile and mine isn't amazing either. :) The adaptive rate works quite well for me to make sure I'm not wasting refreshes, since it only reloads each image after it has already loaded.

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