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Kaini

Neglected Dragons

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latest?cb=20100328052836 latest?cb=20110401064702 Neglected Dragon Discussion Thread latest?cb=20110401064702  latest?cb=20100328052507

 

 

Honestly surprised no one beat me to this but might as well make it official! Talk ND to me.

 

FAQ:

 

What are Neglected Dragons?

 

Neglected dragons (or NDs) are difficult-to-obtain dragons that cannot be grabbed from the cave, only 'created' by 'neglecting' an egg or hatchling until the very last minute of its life. Unofficial wiki article.

 

How are they created?

 

Written Guide

Visual Guide

 

Can we discuss detailed methods here?

 

Yes, provided none of said methods violate the site's TOS, found here.

 

Can we announce experiments here?

 

There's a separate thread for that, found here.

 

 

latest?cb=20100327043925 More 2 be added I'm sure. latest?cb=20100327043925

 

Badges: nd_animation_by_kai_ni-dd20ark.gif (if anyone has any more saved let me know)

Edited by Kaini

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I have a fair few NDs but they were all trades and gifts-- I've never had luck creating them myself. There's a flowchart floating around, I know it's on the UOD, maybe someone involved making them there can throw it here.

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I know there's some guides floating around - if you have one, share and I'll link it in the first post. :) At some point I'll write my own possibly.

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I haven't tried to make a Neglected since probably the first year or two I played, I am just sooo not patient/dedicated enough for that. I'm excited that we can now openly talk about it here, though, and I intend to keep an eye on this thread in case I want to try again.

 

I'm very curious about something though... The last handful of months I've noticed a rather significant change in the rate at which my ER-timed eggs gain views, and I've experimented with ERs to the point where it seems fairly obvious that something has changed on-site in regards to how fast eggs can accumulate views. I'm assuming TJ has tinkered around with stuff for anti-viewbombing purposes, I do remember him saying there was stuff planned in that area. I'm just curious if anyone has noticed a change in ND-making view accumulation, if it's gotten any harder to get enough views, if mods know anything official in that area, etc. I'll admit that most of my ER-timed eggs don't go below 2 days, so maybe as an egg gets down to dangerously-low time they are able to get views without limit? I have no idea.

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Glad to see this thread already up and running ^^

 

Admittedly, NDs are something I've been wanting to try but been to hesitant to actually do because 1) I've no knowledge/experience in the process and 2) always felt it might be a bit time-consuming and difficult to plan around work+school. I intend to follow this thread and hopefully get more into the discussion/actual process of it now.

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Yay! So glad this is finally a thing!

I'd been wanting to make ND's for a long time and recently have had much luck, it's a lot of fun after the first few stressful trial runs. I'd be glad to help others learn, and maybe someday (soon) we can have Neglected variants like Zombies have! 

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I am curious to learn successful ways to create neglecteds, I think I tried a couple times but that was it. I'll be watching. XD

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Well, this is the flowchart that's on the Unofficial Discord. Of course, because it's Discord, it mentions pinging a role that obviously isn't on the forums.

 

Spoiler

NDexp2.png

 

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Glad to see the neglected topic of neglecteds is finally in forums! Here's a quick guide to a couple methods I know:

 

Method 1 (usual, needs assistance)

 

Recommended:

  • 1 incubate
  • 1 teleport
  • 1 friend or person you trust to save the egg and not run off with it (aka catcher)
  • 1 egg, must be biteable by vampires or is a vampire
  • 1-5 hatcheries
  • Autorefreshers for views

Optional:

  • 1 influence (for ungendered) OR 1 precog* (for checking gendered)
  • time.is for accurate timekeeping

*Note: neglected dragons are unable to be precogged. If you want to know their gender, they must be checked before the experiment.

 

Instructions:

  1. Grab egg. Make plans with your catcher for the time of the experiment.
    • If from cave or bred from your dragons, note down as close to the exact second, minute and hour as possible, and make sure your schedule will be open during that time 6 days later.
    • If from abandoned page, make sure it's not going to die at an inconvenient hour for you, then find its time of death (see Allure of Neglected Dragons' guide).
  2. Precog or influence egg as desired. Incubate egg.
  3. Fog egg. Wait 5 days 23 hours, or however much time is left.
  4. Set up hatcheries and refreshers as desired. Yell at your friend to get ready and hope they didn't forget.
  5. Unfog egg 5 to 15 minutes beforehand. Set up one-way, or two-way if you're both locked.
  6. Give egg views 2-3 minutes before it dies. Pray it turns green.
  7. If it does, your catcher should accept the teleport to save the egg from dying.
    • (Optional) Your catcher can also save the egg right before it dies even if it doesn't turn. Eggs may occasionally turn at the very last moment, so saving all attempts is generally safer.
  8. Celebrate your good luck or mourn your bad luck. Thank your catcher and retrieve egg for hatching.


Method 2 (solo)

 

Recommended:

  • 1 heavy-duty egg (zyumorph, guardian of nature, guardian avatar or prize dragon)
  • 1-5 hatcheries
  • Autorefreshers for views

Optional:

  • 1 influence* OR 1 precog
  • 1incubate
  • 1 teleport if you want a backup catcher

*Note: Method 2 cannot make ungendered neglecteds, but can be attempted as a backup if Method 1 fails on the egg the first time. However, being saved means that they lose the original influence and will gender randomly. Influenced eggs should gender correctly if they turn and hatch on the original player's scroll without being saved.

 

Instructions:

  1. Follow steps 1 and 2 from Method 1. Incubate and catcher for failures is optional, but if you choose not to have help be prepared for the egg to die if it doesn't turn.
  2. Give egg a small number of unique views any time before the experiment. My recommendation is 60-110 uv, possibly more if you have trouble getting regular views during experiments. You can fog and wait until it's ER to get the UV quickly if you're around to keep an eye on it.
  3. Proceed with steps 3 - 8 of Method 1. Catcher is optional. If the egg turns neglected with enough views it should hatch almost instantly, so saving successes is unnecessary.
Edited by Shadowdrake

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!!!! Are we allowed to talk about this now? I remember for awhile NDs were a banned topic on the forums...

 

My very first experiment to get an ND worked perfectly! The egg turned right on schedule, but then - Disaster in the form of a mis-typed password from my catcher. He didn't catch it in time to save the egg T_T And I've had no eggs turn since then.

 

Thus, I have only one male Neglected, whom I received from the very generous Cinspawn! That ND is my pride and joy lol, though I hope someday I'll be lucky enough to get a few more to collect all the ND sprites!

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@Twimm we can! Guideline updates were announced here! 

 

It took me months to get an ND, my first and only one I've made, using just the Instructions section that Shadowdrake listed. 

 

ETA: @Kaini you're missing an ND sprite in your first post. :) 

Edited by purpledragonclaw

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This is interesting indeed.  I had no idea it was even possible to make a ND by yourself.

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This is a thread I'll be watching!  I didn't know it was possible to make an ND alone either.  I have just one that I had gifted.  Would love lots!

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I'm not the most patient or dedicated person, plus my schedule is a bit erratic sometimes. Not to mention that the vast majority of my attempts failed, probably because I'm a notoriously unlucky person. :rolleyes: However, I had three successful turns. I traded away two, the third is still on my scroll because, honestly, I was not willing to give it away for a bred trio. Nope.

 

I once intended to try using sunrise/sunset eggs for ND experiments because, well, they're unable to hatch outside certain hatching windows. So, I figured, spam breed on several sun pairs seconds after the hatching window start, then try your luck. It definitely doesn't hurt these eggs can't hatch too early, maybe there even is a chance that they'll turn even if there's a big hole in them. But, well, the experiment never went anyhwere for reasons outside of my control, and I never tried that particular "trick" again.

 

Something else that's been confirmed on several sites I used to read up on for NDs: Neglected eggs are harder to hatch and need more views than most eggs, similar to Prizes. I've seen multiple reports of eggs with cracks turning - and going back a stage or two in the cracking sequence. The problem with this is that, should your egg actually turn, you'll have a very hard time to hatch it - unless you used Incubate (who wouldn't?) and have someone willing to help you out by "catching" the egg. If you don't mind your NDs having a lineage, I strongly recommend using messy Prize eggs or other breeds that are harder to hatch. Sunrise/Sunset bred just seconds into their hatching window (whichever of the two works for you) are also a good idea. Or... Siyats. If the egg accidentally hatches, at the very least you'll get a purple one, which takes quite some time to get.

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6 minutes ago, olympe said:

Or... Siyats. If the egg accidentally hatches, at the very least you'll get a purple one, which takes quite some time to get.

Yeah, Siyats were my go to for attempting NDs for a while, but I only ever attempted... thrice? Didn't get anywhere, go figure. XD

 

A couple of months ago, someone posted an ND in the Help section that had turned with very low stats:

 

 

Ever since then, my going theory for what happens behind the scenes for NDs is that after an egg hits a certain age, each time the egg is actually viewed (independent of the stat increase, i.e. it's irrelevant if "overall views" is maxed out, as it is in that example egg), the site rolls for "should I turn this into an ND?". This would mean the reason we need to spam views is mostly so we can get as many re-rolls for that state as we can, since the chance is actually pretty low (per view).

 

If this is true, it may mean you just need an aggressive auto-refresher and not even any hatcheries, but I haven't actually tried this.

 

That said, this isn't evidence, just pure speculation on my part, based on that strange egg. The egg could also be explained by that the ND state is re-rolled each view-stat increase (i.e. that egg had 15 chances to turn into an ND) and the person who made that particular ND got really lucky. :P

 

I dunno. I wanted to share those thoughts now that we can!

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32 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

Ever since then, my going theory for what happens behind the scenes for NDs is that after an egg hits a certain age, each time the egg is actually viewed (independent of the stat increase, i.e. it's irrelevant if "overall views" is maxed out, as it is in that example egg), the site rolls for "should I turn this into an ND?". This would mean the reason we need to spam views is mostly so we can get as many re-rolls for that state as we can, since the chance is actually pretty low (per view).

I had a similar theory, but that the chance for turning is higher the less time the egg has left. Although it could just as well be dependent on the actual age of the egg, which means that Incubate would be detrimental to creating NDs. If the turning thing is independent of the stats of the egg, this might also be a point for using sun eggs - because no matter how many stats they get outside their window, they cannot hatch.

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I actually didn't realize Zyus and Prizes like... insta-hatch if they're turned right until like a couple days ago and yep new method to try.

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Uhm, they don't actually insta-hatch. They just don't go back a couple of stages in their cracking sequence.

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3 hours ago, olympe said:

Neglected eggs are harder to hatch and need more views than most eggs, similar to Prizes.

Close but not quite: neglecteds are more along the lines of somewhat stubborn but still reasonable eggs such as tetras, luminas, fire gems, nhiostrifes, brimstones, etc etc. Zyus and prizes are on a whole other level.

 

I haven't tried a solo exp with a semi stubborn fodder, but I think it might be doable. Or at least more doable than it is with regular eggs, but still tough since you'd need to balance between not letting it hatch while unturned but still with enough views to hatch it quickly if it does turn.

 

I have tried with the sunrise/sunset eggs and the 3 or 4 I gave enough views that they would have hatched normally as other eggs didn't turn. Someone else in my neglected creating group also said that they wouldn't turn once they had that many views, I've definitely had non-hatchable suns turn before, and I feel in the 12 years or so of neglecteds being available surely sun dragons being a useful strat would be mentioned somewhere if they worked.

 

 

2 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

my going theory for what happens behind the scenes for NDs is that after an egg hits a certain age, each time the egg is actually viewed (independent of the stat increase, i.e. it's irrelevant if "overall views" is maxed out, as it is in that example egg), the site rolls for "should I turn this into an ND?".

Possibly! I've definitely seen eggs turn when their stats didn't budge at all, and we've had some luck getting turns after opening up ridiculous numbers of AR tabs to bomb exps with (though that might just be superstition who knows :p)

 

 

2 hours ago, olympe said:

Although it could just as well be dependent on the actual age of the egg, which means that Incubate would be detrimental to creating NDs.

Hmm, it might be but even then, my group has been getting around a 1/4 or 1/5 chance of turns with incubated eggs, so it can't be that bad. Both incubated and unincubated exps seem to consistently turn at 1 minute left or less from their death regardless of incubation.

 

 

37 minutes ago, olympe said:

Uhm, they don't actually insta-hatch.

Oh they absolutely can. I managed an experiment a few days ago where the egg went from s2 cracked zyu to instant neglected hatchie when it turned, and Kaini was watching. Trust me, zyus and prizes take much more views than neglecteds do to hatch.

Edited by Shadowdrake

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25 minutes ago, olympe said:

Uhm, they don't actually insta-hatch. They just don't go back a couple of stages in their cracking sequence.

 

Oho yes they do (if the egg is a zyu/prize). Like Shadowdrake said, I watched it the other day and was also very confused X'D Apparently my reaction was quite amusing...

 

With Zyus, they need MORE views to hatch than a neglected, so when they turned neglected with already enough views for an egg to hatch (but not a zyu, hence why it was still an egg) it just... insta-hatches into an ND. Because as an ND, it had enough.

 

It was weird. :D

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Well, I only have a sample size of 1 (originally a bronze Tinsel), but that one certainly didn't hatch the second it turned. It didn't take long, but long enough for me to break out in a sweat, as I was doing this experiment solo. I know I had the kill action ready to go, but I don't remember if I actually had to use it to force the hatchling out of the egg.

Edited by olympe

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Probably not enough views to start with in that case. Another frequent solo exp'er had their first heavy-duty exp not turn-hatch immediately but luckily got enough views to hatch by the end of the exp.

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Good to know that now we can discuss ND on the forums!

As I have achevied a lot of my scroll goals, then I can start doing some NDs. Didn't knew about this whole catcher stuff etc.

Today Gothh tried to make ND from little poor Imperial Fleshcrowne, but it died with no turning. I thought about this trying more with NDs, but with almost no knowledge. And now I found this topic and I'm glad it's here.

When my current eggies and hatchies will grow up then I think I'll start some experiments!

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Seeing this thread and the guides makes me want to try to make NDs again. But since I'm a European-based morning person, not sure how feasible that would be XD I'd have to go for the solo method with very stubborn breeds, but would hatcheries have enough traffic to give the necessary amount of stats to hatch them?

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8 hours ago, Chococat0815 said:

Seeing this thread and the guides makes me want to try to make NDs again. But since I'm a European-based morning person, not sure how feasible that would be XD I'd have to go for the solo method with very stubborn breeds, but would hatcheries have enough traffic to give the necessary amount of stats to hatch them?

That's the big question. As I mentioned before, I didn't do that many experiments, but it was obvious that eggs took longer to crack during low-traffic times. You might want to unfog your experiments a little earlier than advisable under "normal" (eg. high-traffic) circumstances, but it's something you can work around. Another thing is to have the kill action ready and use it mere seconds before the egg would run out of time. Because there's a certain chance you'll get a hatchling - or that someone else will because the hatchling runs off to the AP. Either way, it's better than a guaranteed dead egg.

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