Neglected Dragons

[Kaini]

Neglected Dragon Discussion Thread  

 

 

Honestly surprised no one beat me to this but might as well make it official! Talk ND to me.

 

FAQ:

 

What are Neglected Dragons?

 

Neglected dragons (or NDs) are difficult-to-obtain dragons that cannot be grabbed from the cave, only 'created' by 'neglecting' an egg or hatchling until the very last minute of its life. Unofficial wiki article.

 

How are they created?

 

Written Guide

Visual Guide

Simplified Written Guide

 

Can we discuss detailed methods here?

 

Yes, provided none of said methods violate the site's TOS, found here.

 

Can we announce experiments here?

 

There's a separate thread for that, found here.

 

 

More 2 be added I'm sure.

 

Badges: (if anyone has any more saved let me know)

Edited November 12, 2022 by Kaini

[Keileon]

I have a fair few NDs but they were all trades and gifts-- I've never had luck creating them myself. There's a flowchart floating around, I know it's on the UOD, maybe someone involved making them there can throw it here.

[Kaini]

I know there's some guides floating around - if you have one, share and I'll link it in the first post. At some point I'll write my own possibly.

[HeatherMarie]

I haven't tried to make a Neglected since probably the first year or two I played, I am just sooo not patient/dedicated enough for that. I'm excited that we can now openly talk about it here, though, and I intend to keep an eye on this thread in case I want to try again.

 

I'm very curious about something though... The last handful of months I've noticed a rather significant change in the rate at which my ER-timed eggs gain views, and I've experimented with ERs to the point where it seems fairly obvious that something has changed on-site in regards to how fast eggs can accumulate views. I'm assuming TJ has tinkered around with stuff for anti-viewbombing purposes, I do remember him saying there was stuff planned in that area. I'm just curious if anyone has noticed a change in ND-making view accumulation, if it's gotten any harder to get enough views, if mods know anything official in that area, etc. I'll admit that most of my ER-timed eggs don't go below 2 days, so maybe as an egg gets down to dangerously-low time they are able to get views without limit? I have no idea.

[ValidEmotions]

Glad to see this thread already up and running ^^

 

Admittedly, NDs are something I've been wanting to try but been to hesitant to actually do because 1) I've no knowledge/experience in the process and 2) always felt it might be a bit time-consuming and difficult to plan around work+school. I intend to follow this thread and hopefully get more into the discussion/actual process of it now.

[Nightwalkerkey]

Yay! So glad this is finally a thing!

I'd been wanting to make ND's for a long time and recently have had much luck, it's a lot of fun after the first few stressful trial runs. I'd be glad to help others learn, and maybe someday (soon) we can have Neglected variants like Zombies have! 

[Chaosdawn]

I am curious to learn successful ways to create neglecteds, I think I tried a couple times but that was it. I'll be watching.

[Keileon]

Well, this is the flowchart that's on the Unofficial Discord. Of course, because it's Discord, it mentions pinging a role that obviously isn't on the forums.

 

Spoiler

 

[Shadowdrake]

Edit August 8, 2022: Due to recent developments, you may need a backup hatchery for methods 2-3 for higher UV.

 

 Glad to see the neglected topic of neglecteds is finally in forums! Here's my guide to a few methods I know.

 

Suggested reading order for a total neglecter newbie:

1. Got a friend? Glance over Method 1. If not, check out Methods 2-4. Ideally, do this before you pick up an egg so you know if you have the BSAs for it.
   • Make sure the egg isn't a 2-headed, pygmy, drake, or unbreedable.
2. Visit the glossary for anything you don't understand, then double check your method's info to make sure you have everything you need.
3. Get the egg's Time of Death (see Timing an Egg). If you got it from the cave or bred it, the second you got it will be its Time of Death.
4. If you care about the neglected's gender, see Neglected genders.
5. Ask in-thread or message me if you have further questions.

 

Note: in this guide, all mentions of UV assume you will try to give it max OV, either before or during the experiment. This means by the time your experiment ends your OV should not be increasing any further except when UV increases.

 If you are doing it solo, you may want to add OV before your experiment even starts.

All numbers are approximate suggestions; please tweak your experiments based on your own methods and results.

If your egg was bred from your own dragons it will need less views to hatch; all UV stats in this guide will be slightly lowered, though I don't know by how much.

 

Anecdotally, having a lot of ARs seems like it makes eggs more likely to turn. Keep ARing even if its OV are capped.

 

Glossary for this guide:

Spoiler

• Exp: short for experiment.
• UV: unique view. Each egg is limited to one per person. A hatchery will give on average 10-40 UV for an exp in 2 minutes.
• OV: overall view. Each egg is limited to 15x the number of OVs. Example: 10 UV = 150 OV max. A person can give OVs until the egg hits its limit.
• AR: auto-refresher. Used to give eggs OVs. http://www.allureofnds.net/NDER/NDAR is commonly used, or its sibling tool https://www.allureofnds.net/NDER/AR.php?dcode0=CODE.
• Precog: precognition. Aeon BSA.
• Turn: to change into a neglected dragon.
• Heavy-duty: a breed that requires many more views to hatch than the average breed.
• Suggested starting views: the recommended amount of UV you should have before your exp starts.
• Suggested goal: the UV (or minimum hatching stage) you should aim for during the final minute of the exp, usually to assist in hatching your ND.
• Avoid going over: the UV amount that you risk hatching your non-neglected egg, failing the exp automatically. Can vary depending on your egg's breed.
• Catcher: person you send a teleport to, so they can pick up the egg once it turns (see Method 1)
• ToD: time of death; when the egg will die.

 

 

Neglected genders:

Spoiler

• Neglecteds cannot be precogged. If you want to know their gender ahead of time, you will have to precog the fodder.
• Ungendered neglecteds need the fodder egg to be influenced ahead of time, then teleported or abandoned as a neglected egg so it loses the influence. They cannot be made solo.
  • Method 1 can only make ungendered NDs (with influence) or naturally-gendered NDs.
  • Methods 2 and 3 can make influenced, gendered NDs when done solo. They can only make ungendereds if you have a catcher grab the neglected before it hatches (extremely unlikely for method 2).
  • Method 4 can make influenced, gendered NDs, but cannot make ungendereds.

 

Other neglected info (optional):

Spoiler

• The odds of getting an egg to turn neglected appears to be 1/4 to 1/8 on average. Expect a lot of dead eggs.
• Neglecteds require more views than most common breeds, and are slightly heavy-duty. This means if your common egg cracks in the exp and turns, you may see it uncrack. This is normal, but also means they are much harder to hatch.
• Eggs will usually only turn neglected in the final minute of its life, up to the very last instant before it dies.
• Eggs can turn neglected anywhere from 1 to 50+ UV or even higher (115+) for heavy-duty breeds.
• Eggs can turn neglected even when OV is maxed and stats aren't budging, as long as it's still being AR'd.
• Neglecteds and ND fails are extremely unlikely to get sick, since they're at least 6 days old already.

Other miscellaneous info (optional):

Spoiler

• You cannot do any regular actions to an egg while in teleport (such as kill or most BSAs), but you can earthquake it.
• If an egg hatches in a teleport, it will use up that magi's BSA without being teleported.
• If soloing, you can kill or earthquake an egg to try to force it to hatch, but this risks it dying or running away to the abandoned page. Vampire bites and earthquake kills also use up kill slots, so if planning to kill make sure you have kills available before relying on them.
• Earthquake can affect all eggs, including ones fogged or in teleports, but can also do nothing to the egg you need to hatch. 
• Eggs that are killed take a slot for 24 hours, but those that die from running out of time (or sickness) do not take up slots.

 

Hatcheries, with rates* (checked during DC daytime):

• Valley Sherwood: medium - 10-20 UV in 2 minutes on average.
• Hatching Club: fast - 10-40 UV in 2 mins
• Allure of Neglected Dragons: medium - 10-30 UV in 2 mins
• Draghatch: slow - 5-20 UV in 2 mins
• Silvi's Lair: very slow - 0-10 UV in 2 mins
  • WARNING: retains eggs even after they've been fogged. Not recommended.
• Egg Drop Soup: unknown
  • WARNING: will add all eggs automatically, including fogged eggs. Not recommended.

*Hatcheries will often give very fast UVs in the first minute or two, then level out

 

Other tools:

• FART (Fast Auto Refresher Tool): works on any egg or hatchling. Very fast refreshing, and contains an optional TOD countdown for experimenters. Customized refresh speed and number of images; can add multiple codes. Strongly recommended for experiments.
• Dragon Cave Autorefresher: works on any egg or hatchling. Customized refresh speed; can add multiple codes.
• Allure NDAR: works on eggs or hatchlings 2 hours or under. Can add multiple codes.
• Allure ER link: works on eggs or hatchlings 4 days or under.
• time.is: online clock synced to the internet. Helpful for keeping track of time if you use more than one computer or device, or have a partner.

 

Example set-ups

Spoiler

Desktop, Teleport method: (top right window is unnecessary if the other person is catching for you. Feel free to swap it for your chat window or your dragon's page. You should have many more AR tabs if you're doing solo.)

 

Mobile tablet: (you can swap out the top tab for Kill action or other hatcheries. You should have multiple AR tabs running if possible)

 

 

 

Timing an Egg: (written by Feesh)

Spoiler

Scan the AP and look at the hours left on the eggs. Pick one that has a Time of Death (ToD) when you will be awake and able to do an exp. For example, if it's currently 8pm, and you are free only after 12pm the following day to exp, pick an egg that has at least 16 hours left (8pm + 16 hours is 12pm). Be sure to double check this because it sucks to hold an egg for 3+ days, only to realize you won't be available at its ToD to exp it. If the current AP hours don't work for you, check back later. 

 

Once you've picked an egg, you'll have to calculate its exact ToD. Knowing the exact second it dies is important, especially if you want to "save" the egg, meaning teleporting it if it doesn't turn, and hatching it as a non-ND. If you don't mind the egg dying, a few seconds margin of error is usually fine.

 

Easiest way of calculating is using the quarter hour, half hour, or on the hour. This isn't required, but makes the numbers cleaner/easier to remember. Refresh the egg's view page every 10 minutes. If you start timing at 4pm, refresh at 4:10, 4:20, etc. until you notice the hour on the view page changes. Once it changes, you know that the ToD is within the last 10 minutes. Ex. Refresh on 4:10, nothing changes. Refresh at 4:20, the hour changes, so ToD is between 4:10 and 4:20. Write the time frame down and check back at the same time in the next hour (5:10-5:20) to narrow the window even more. You can refresh by 5 minutes (at 5:15 or 5:20) or 1 minute to find the minute it dies; it depends on your preference. Same process to find the exact second it dies, it's just trickier because you're refreshing by seconds. 

 

This method can time multiple eggs at once as well. Open each egg's view page on a tab and refresh them one by one every 10 minutes. If the hour changes, write the time frame down and keep on narrowing each egg's ToD down. 

 

Note that you can choose to calculate with longer time frames, refreshing every 15 or 20 minutes, instead of 10.

 

And now you have your ToD!

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Method 1: Get a friend  (uses Teleport. Needs assistance, but is low-risk if your catcher is reliable. Can work with any regular-breeding dragon including heavy-duty eggs such as terrae or zyus.)

Spoiler

Suggested starting views: 0-30 UV*

Suggested goal for final minute: any; I usually end up with around 40, but turns can happen from 2 uv to over 70.

Avoid going over: 75 UV (try to stay s4 or under)

*0-1 UV is perfectly fine; you don't need to add any views before the exp, but it won't harm you if you do have a few.

 

Recommended:

• 1 incubate*
• 1 teleport
• 1 friend or person you trust to save the egg and not run off with it (aka catcher)
• 1 egg, must be biteable by vampires or is a vampire
• 1-5 hatcheries
• Autorefreshers for views

* Incubate is essential to a regular experiment, as it wears off when the egg leaves your scroll and gives it an extra day to hatch.

 

Optional:

• 1 influence (for ungendered) OR 1 precog** (for checking gendered)
• time.is for accurate timekeeping

** Neglected dragons are unable to be precogged. If you want to know their gender, they must be checked before the experiment.

 

Instructions:

1. Grab egg. Make plans with your catcher for the time of the experiment.
   • If from cave or bred from your dragons, note down as close to the exact second, minute and hour as possible, and make sure your schedule will be open during that time 6 days later.
   • If from abandoned page, make sure it's not going to die at an inconvenient hour for you, then find its time of death (see the Timing an Egg section).
2. Precog or influence egg as desired. Incubate egg.
3. Fog egg. Wait 5 days 23 hours, or however much time is left.
4. Set up hatcheries and refreshers as desired. Yell at your friend to get ready and hope they didn't forget.
5. Unfog egg 5 to 15 minutes beforehand. Set up one-way, or two-way if you're both locked.
6. Give egg views 2-3 minutes before it dies. Pray it turns green.
7. If it does, your catcher should accept the teleport to save the egg from dying.
   • (Optional) Your catcher can also save the egg right before it dies even if it doesn't turn. Eggs may occasionally turn at the very last moment, so saving all attempts is generally safer.
8. Celebrate your good luck or mourn your bad luck. Thank your catcher and retrieve egg for hatching.

Methods 2 - 3: Solo runs, no kill    (risky. Requires specific breeds of eggs)

Spoiler

Method 2: Instant hatch  (solo, slightly risky. Requires a zyumorph, GoN, avatar, or prize)

- This method is also theoretically possible with a low-view hatchling of said breeds to get an instant neglected adult, but view counts have not been determined.

Spoiler

Suggested starting views: 60-110 UV

Suggested goal for final minute: 110-125 UV (egg should be s2 minimum  for max chance of hatching if turned, though s1  may also hatch fine)

Avoid going over: 140 UV

 

Recommended:

• 1 heavy-duty egg (zyumorph, guardian of nature, guardian avatar or prize dragon)
• 1-5 hatcheries
• Autorefreshers for views

Optional:

• 1 influence* OR 1 precog
• 1 incubate
• 1 teleport if you want a backup catcher
• time.is for accurate timekeeping

* This method cannot make ungendered neglecteds if done solo, but can be attempted as a backup if Method 1 fails on the egg the first time. However, being saved means that they lose the original influence and will gender randomly. Influenced eggs should gender correctly if they turn and hatch on the original player's scroll without being saved.

 

Instructions:

1. Grab egg. Optional*: make plans with your catcher for the time of the experiment.
   • If from cave or bred from your dragons, note down as close to the exact second, minute and hour as possible, and make sure your schedule will be open during that time 6 days later.
   • If from abandoned page, make sure it's not going to die at an inconvenient hour for you, then find its time of death (see the Timing an Egg section).
2. Precog or influence egg as desired. Optional*: incubate egg.
3. Give egg a small number of unique views any time before the experiment. My recommendation is 60-110 uv, possibly more if you have trouble getting regular views during experiments. You can fog and wait until it's ER to get the UV quickly if you're around to keep an eye on it, or add some OV ahead of time as well.
4. Fog egg. Wait 5 days 23 hours, or however much time is left.
5. Set up hatcheries and refreshers as desired.
6. Unfog egg 5 to 15 minutes beforehand. If you have a catcher, remind them and set up your teleport at this time.
7. Give egg views 2-3 minutes before it dies, making sure to give it lots of OV. Try to aim for s1 - s2 crack minimum by the final minute.
8. If the egg turns neglected with enough views (recommended s2 - s3 crack as a non-neglected) it should hatch almost instantly, or turn with a large crack, so saving successes is hopefully unnecessary.
9. If it turns and hasn't hatched give it more views and add to hatcheries ASAP. You will have less than a minute to hatch it, often only a few seconds.
   • If it doesn't look like it will hatch in time you can use the kill action or earthquake BSA to force it to hatch, but this risks killing the egg, having the hatchling run away or, in the case of earthquake, killing many of your other eggs or doing nothing at all.

* Although incubate and a catcher for failures is optional, if you choose not to have help be prepared for the egg to die if it doesn't turn, or risk it dying while turned if you haven't given it enough views.

 

 

 Method 3: Almost instant hatch  (solo, medium risk. Requires a specific breed of heavy-duty egg: fire gem, brimstone, tetra, nhiostrife, or either lumina. Assuming all goes right, it will hatch automatically once it turns like zyumorphs (or be very close), but it is much more risky.)

- This method is also theoretically possible with a low-view hatchling of said breeds to get an instant neglected adult, but view counts have not been determined.

Spoiler

Suggested starting views*: 50-90 UV

Suggested goal for final minute**: 100-105 UV (or s3 to s4 before turning:   -- note that s3 is not guaranteed to hatch as a neglected, but s4 or higher risks it hatching normally without turning)

Avoid going over**: 112 UV

* Due to the delicate nature of this method you may need more or less UV depending on your hatcheries and AR rate.

** Because neglecteds require about the same amount to hatch as these breeds, there is a small chance you may need to go over this number in order for the turned egg to hatch. However, it is very unlikely.

 

Recommended:

• 1 somewhat stubborn egg (fire gem, brimstone, tetra, nhiostrife, or either lumina)
• 1-5 hatcheries
• Autorefreshers for views

Optional:

• 1 incubate
• 1 influence** OR 1 precog
• 1 teleport if you want a backup catcher
• time.is for accurate timekeeping

** This method cannot make ungendered neglecteds if done solo, but can be attempted as a backup if Method 1 fails on the egg the first time if UVs are low enough. However, being saved means that they lose the original influence and will gender randomly. Influenced eggs should gender correctly if they turn and hatch on the original player's scroll without being saved.

 

Instructions:

1. Grab egg. Optional*: make plans with your catcher for the time of the experiment.
   • If from cave or bred from your dragons, note down as close to the exact second, minute and hour as possible, and make sure your schedule will be open during that time 6 days later.
   • If from abandoned page, make sure it's not going to die at an inconvenient hour for you, then find its time of death (see the Timing an Egg section).
2. Precog or influence egg as desired. Optional*: incubate egg.
3. Give egg a small number of unique views any time before the experiment. My recommendation is 60-90 uv, possibly more if you have trouble getting regular views during experiments. You can fog and wait until it's ER to get the UV quickly if you're around to keep an eye on it, or add some OV ahead of time as well.
4. Fog egg. Wait 5 days 23 hours, or however much time is left.
5. Set up hatcheries and refreshers as desired.
   • I recommend setting up spare hatcheries as well so you can enter your egg instantly if it turns.
6. Unfog egg 5 to 15 minutes beforehand. If you have a catcher, remind them and set up your teleport at this time.
7. Give egg views 2-3 minutes before it dies, making sure to give it lots of OV. Try to aim for s3-s4 crack by the final minute. Pray it turns green.
8. If the egg turns, hopefully it hatches immediately. If it doesn't, give it more views and add to hatcheries ASAP. You will have less than a minute to hatch it, often only a few seconds.
   • If it doesn't look like it will hatch in time you can use the kill action or earthquake BSA to force it to hatch, but this risks killing the egg, having the hatchling run away or, in the case of earthquake, killing many of your other eggs or doing nothing at all.

* Although incubate and a catcher for failures is optional, if you choose not to have help be prepared for the egg to die if it doesn't turn, or risk it dying while turned if you haven't given it enough views.

 

 

 

- Method 3.5: Natural hatch  (solo, very risky. Requires a slightly heavy-duty egg: terrae, colossus or pyralspite may work.)

WARNING: this method has a high chance of failure. Once it turns you will have a very short time to hatch the neglected egg.

Spoiler

Suggested starting views*: 50-90 UV

Suggested goal for final minute**: 80-95 UV (or s3 to s5 before turning:    -- note that s4 - s5 risks it hatching normally without turning)

Avoid going over**: 100 UV (may even hatch under this)

* Due to the delicate nature of this method you may need more or less UV depending on your hatcheries and AR rate.

** Because neglecteds require about the same amount to hatch as these breeds, you may have to hit or even go over this number in order for the turned egg to hatch.

 

Recommended:

• 1 somewhat stubborn egg (terrae, colossus or pyralspite)
• 1-5 hatcheries
• Autorefreshers for views

Optional:

• 1 incubate
• 1 influence** OR 1 precog
• 1 teleport if you want a backup catcher
• time.is for accurate timekeeping

** This method cannot make ungendered neglecteds if done solo, but can be attempted as a backup if Method 1 fails on the egg the first time if UVs are low enough. However, being saved means that they lose the original influence and will gender randomly. Influenced eggs should gender correctly if they turn and hatch on the original player's scroll without being saved.

 

Instructions:

1. Grab egg. Optional*: make plans with your catcher for the time of the experiment.
   • If from cave or bred from your dragons, note down as close to the exact second, minute and hour as possible, and make sure your schedule will be open during that time 6 days later.
   • If from abandoned page, make sure it's not going to die at an inconvenient hour for you, then find its time of death (see the Timing an Egg section).
2. Precog or influence egg as desired. Optional*: incubate egg.
3. Give egg a small number of unique views any time before the experiment. My recommendation is 60-90 uv, possibly more if you have trouble getting regular views during experiments. You can fog and wait until it's ER to get the UV quickly if you're around to keep an eye on it, or add some OV ahead of time as well.
4. Fog egg. Wait 5 days 23 hours, or however much time is left.
5. Set up hatcheries and refreshers as desired.
   • I recommend setting up spare hatcheries as well so you can enter your egg instantly if it turns.
6. Unfog egg 5 to 15 minutes beforehand. If you have a catcher, remind them and set up your teleport at this time.
7. Give egg views 2-3 minutes before it dies, making sure to give it lots of OV. Try to aim for s3-s4 crack by the final minute. Pray it turns green.
8. If the egg turns, it may not have hatched yet. Give it more views and add to hatcheries ASAP. You will have less than a minute to hatch it, often only a few seconds.
   • If it doesn't look like it will hatch in time you can use the kill action or earthquake BSA to force it to hatch, but this risks killing the egg, having the hatchling run away or, in the case of earthquake, killing many of your other eggs or doing nothing at all.

* Although incubate and a catcher for failures is optional, if you choose not to have help be prepared for the egg to die if it doesn't turn, or risk it dying while turned if you haven't given it enough views.

 

 

- Secret method: No hatcheries, just ARing (A slightly adjusted version of methods 2 - 3. Risk may be slightly higher than base method/breed of egg)

Spoiler

Starting and ending view suggestions will be based on the base method you're using. Instructions can be similarly adjusted to follow a regular method.

 

Instructions:

1. Grab and precog, influence, incubate, etc. as desired.
2. Give eggs a small amount of UV before the experiment. However, instead of stopping at the suggested starting views, keep adding until you hit the suggested UV goal instead (i.e. ~115 for zyumorphs, ~100 for brimstones, ~90 for terrae).
3. Fog and wait until experiment time.
   • Optional recommendation: add extra views using the AOND ER link so that the egg will need less views to hatch during the experiment.
4. Set up spare hatcheries and enter your username for quick adding, in case the egg doesn't hatch when it turns.
5. Unfog egg, as usual.
6. AR the egg with as many tabs as possible without your computer lagging. Since it's not in any hatcheries, it has less risk of hatching from too many UVs and needs less monitoring.
7. Quickly add to hatcheries if it turns but doesn't hatch.

 

 

 

Method 4: Force/Kill  (solo, very risky. Can work with any regular-breeding dragon; all numbers are based on using non-heavy-duty eggs)

WARNING: no testing has been done. Do not take any of this information as certain fact.

Spoiler

 

Suggested starting views*: 20-40 UV**

Suggested goal: Unknown. Possibly 50-65 UV**. Regardless, for best chance of hatching your neglected egg should be cracked before you attempt to force it.  - 

Avoid going over: 75 UV**

* Due to the delicate nature of this method you may need more or less UV depending on your hatcheries.

** These numbers assume you have a regular non-heavy-duty egg. For heavy-duty eggs, see UV suggestions for method 2 or 3.

 

Recommended:

• 1 kill slot per egg OR multiple green dragons with earthquake* available
• 1 egg, must be biteable by vampires or is a vampire
• 1-5 hatcheries
• Autorefreshers for views

* Earthquake will affect all eggs, even fogged ones. This will allow you to try up to 8 exps at a time, especially if they're all at the same time, but also risks any valuables you aren't experimenting on and any more exps you are doing after this one. Earthquake can also do nothing at all to eggs, so if you are using them doing multiple is recommended.

 

Optional:

• 1 incubate
• 1 influence** OR 1 precog
• time.is for accurate timekeeping

**This method cannot make ungendered neglecteds at all, but can be attempted as a backup if Method 1 fails on the egg the first time if the UVs are still low enough. However, being saved means that they lose the original influence and will gender randomly. Influenced eggs should gender correctly if they turn and hatch on the original player's scroll without being saved.

 

Instructions:

1. Grab egg.
   • If from cave or bred from your dragons, note down as close to the exact second, minute and hour as possible, and make sure your schedule will be open during that time 6 days later.
   • If from abandoned page, make sure it's not going to die at an inconvenient hour for you, then find its time of death (see the Timing an Egg section).
2. Precog or influence egg as desired.
   • Optional: Give egg a small number of unique views any time before the experiment. My recommendation is 20-40 uv, possibly more if you have trouble getting regular views during experiments. You can fog and wait until it's ER to get the UV quickly if you're around to keep an eye on it, or add some OV ahead of time as well.
     • If you add to multiple hatcheries this may be enough to get the neglected to start cracking without extra views, but remember that neglecteds require more views than regular eggs and a cracked egg may become uncracked when it turns.
3. Fog egg. Wait 5 days 23 hours, or however much time is left.
4. Set up hatcheries and refreshers as desired.
5. Unfog egg 5 to 10 minutes beforehand. Prepare the kill or earthquake pages, typing in your password without pressing enter.
6. Give egg views 2-3 minutes before it dies, making sure to give it lots of OV. Pray it turns green.
7. If the egg turns but isn't cracked, give it more views and add to more hatcheries ASAP. You will have less than a minute left, often only a few seconds.
8. Press kill or earthquake once you think it's cracked enough or are about to run out of time.

 

My neglected egg hatching stats, to help with UV adjustment:

OV        UV     Clicks
1285    102    7
1440    96      12
1515    101    8

1560    104    4

 

Actual numbers may be higher or lower.

 

If you'd like a small video preview of what it's like to turn zyus, click here.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Shadowdrake

[Aniia]

!!!! Are we allowed to talk about this now? I remember for awhile NDs were a banned topic on the forums...

 

My very first experiment to get an ND worked perfectly! The egg turned right on schedule, but then - Disaster in the form of a mis-typed password from my catcher. He didn't catch it in time to save the egg T_T And I've had no eggs turn since then.

 

Thus, I have only one male Neglected, whom I received from the very generous Cinspawn! That ND is my pride and joy lol, though I hope someday I'll be lucky enough to get a few more to collect all the ND sprites!

[purpledragonclaw]

@Twimm we can! Guideline updates were announced here! 

 

It took me months to get an ND, my first and only one I've made, using just the Instructions section that Shadowdrake listed. 

 

ETA: @Kaini you're missing an ND sprite in your first post.  

Edited September 17, 2019 by purpledragonclaw

[Stormcaller]

This is interesting indeed.  I had no idea it was even possible to make a ND by yourself.

[Quinney]

This is a thread I'll be watching!  I didn't know it was possible to make an ND alone either.  I have just one that I had gifted.  Would love lots!

[olympe]

I'm not the most patient or dedicated person, plus my schedule is a bit erratic sometimes. Not to mention that the vast majority of my attempts failed, probably because I'm a notoriously unlucky person.  However, I had three successful turns. I traded away two, the third is still on my scroll because, honestly, I was not willing to give it away for a bred trio. Nope.

 

I once intended to try using sunrise/sunset eggs for ND experiments because, well, they're unable to hatch outside certain hatching windows. So, I figured, spam breed on several sun pairs seconds after the hatching window start, then try your luck. It definitely doesn't hurt these eggs can't hatch too early, maybe there even is a chance that they'll turn even if there's a big hole in them. But, well, the experiment never went anyhwere for reasons outside of my control, and I never tried that particular "trick" again.

 

Something else that's been confirmed on several sites I used to read up on for NDs: Neglected eggs are harder to hatch and need more views than most eggs, similar to Prizes. I've seen multiple reports of eggs with cracks turning - and going back a stage or two in the cracking sequence. The problem with this is that, should your egg actually turn, you'll have a very hard time to hatch it - unless you used Incubate (who wouldn't?) and have someone willing to help you out by "catching" the egg. If you don't mind your NDs having a lineage, I strongly recommend using messy Prize eggs or other breeds that are harder to hatch. Sunrise/Sunset bred just seconds into their hatching window (whichever of the two works for you) are also a good idea. Or... Siyats. If the egg accidentally hatches, at the very least you'll get a purple one, which takes quite some time to get.

[pinkgothic]

6 minutes ago, olympe said:

Or... Siyats. If the egg accidentally hatches, at the very least you'll get a purple one, which takes quite some time to get.

Yeah, Siyats were my go to for attempting NDs for a while, but I only ever attempted... thrice? Didn't get anywhere, go figure.

 

A couple of months ago, someone posted an ND in the Help section that had turned with very low stats:

 

 

Ever since then, my going theory for what happens behind the scenes for NDs is that after an egg hits a certain age, each time the egg is actually viewed (independent of the stat increase, i.e. it's irrelevant if "overall views" is maxed out, as it is in that example egg), the site rolls for "should I turn this into an ND?". This would mean the reason we need to spam views is mostly so we can get as many re-rolls for that state as we can, since the chance is actually pretty low (per view).

 

If this is true, it may mean you just need an aggressive auto-refresher and not even any hatcheries, but I haven't actually tried this.

 

That said, this isn't evidence, just pure speculation on my part, based on that strange egg. The egg could also be explained by that the ND state is re-rolled each view-stat increase (i.e. that egg had 15 chances to turn into an ND) and the person who made that particular ND got really lucky.

 

I dunno. I wanted to share those thoughts now that we can!

[olympe]

32 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

Ever since then, my going theory for what happens behind the scenes for NDs is that after an egg hits a certain age, each time the egg is actually viewed (independent of the stat increase, i.e. it's irrelevant if "overall views" is maxed out, as it is in that example egg), the site rolls for "should I turn this into an ND?". This would mean the reason we need to spam views is mostly so we can get as many re-rolls for that state as we can, since the chance is actually pretty low (per view).

I had a similar theory, but that the chance for turning is higher the less time the egg has left. Although it could just as well be dependent on the actual age of the egg, which means that Incubate would be detrimental to creating NDs. If the turning thing is independent of the stats of the egg, this might also be a point for using sun eggs - because no matter how many stats they get outside their window, they cannot hatch.

[Kaini]

I actually didn't realize Zyus and Prizes like... insta-hatch if they're turned right until like a couple days ago and yep new method to try.

[olympe]

Uhm, they don't actually insta-hatch. They just don't go back a couple of stages in their cracking sequence.

[Shadowdrake]

3 hours ago, olympe said:

Neglected eggs are harder to hatch and need more views than most eggs, similar to Prizes.

Close but not quite: neglecteds are more along the lines of somewhat stubborn but still reasonable eggs such as tetras, luminas, fire gems, nhiostrifes, brimstones, etc etc. Zyus and prizes are on a whole other level.

 

I haven't tried a solo exp with a semi stubborn fodder, but I think it might be doable. Or at least more doable than it is with regular eggs, but still tough since you'd need to balance between not letting it hatch while unturned but still with enough views to hatch it quickly if it does turn.

 

I have tried with the sunrise/sunset eggs and the 3 or 4 I gave enough views that they would have hatched normally as other eggs didn't turn. Someone else in my neglected creating group also said that they wouldn't turn once they had that many views, I've definitely had non-hatchable suns turn before, and I feel in the 12 years or so of neglecteds being available surely sun dragons being a useful strat would be mentioned somewhere if they worked.

 

 

2 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

my going theory for what happens behind the scenes for NDs is that after an egg hits a certain age, each time the egg is actually viewed (independent of the stat increase, i.e. it's irrelevant if "overall views" is maxed out, as it is in that example egg), the site rolls for "should I turn this into an ND?".

Possibly! I've definitely seen eggs turn when their stats didn't budge at all, and we've had some luck getting turns after opening up ridiculous numbers of AR tabs to bomb exps with (though that might just be superstition who knows :p)

 

 

2 hours ago, olympe said:

Although it could just as well be dependent on the actual age of the egg, which means that Incubate would be detrimental to creating NDs.

Hmm, it might be but even then, my group has been getting around a 1/4 or 1/5 chance of turns with incubated eggs, so it can't be that bad. Both incubated and unincubated exps seem to consistently turn at 1 minute left or less from their death regardless of incubation.

 

 

37 minutes ago, olympe said:

Uhm, they don't actually insta-hatch.

Oh they absolutely can. I managed an experiment a few days ago where the egg went from s2 cracked zyu to instant neglected hatchie when it turned, and Kaini was watching. Trust me, zyus and prizes take much more views than neglecteds do to hatch.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Shadowdrake

[Kaini]

25 minutes ago, olympe said:

Uhm, they don't actually insta-hatch. They just don't go back a couple of stages in their cracking sequence.

 

Oho yes they do (if the egg is a zyu/prize). Like Shadowdrake said, I watched it the other day and was also very confused X'D Apparently my reaction was quite amusing...

 

With Zyus, they need MORE views to hatch than a neglected, so when they turned neglected with already enough views for an egg to hatch (but not a zyu, hence why it was still an egg) it just... insta-hatches into an ND. Because as an ND, it had enough.

 

It was weird.

[olympe]

Well, I only have a sample size of 1 (originally a bronze Tinsel), but that one certainly didn't hatch the second it turned. It didn't take long, but long enough for me to break out in a sweat, as I was doing this experiment solo. I know I had the kill action ready to go, but I don't remember if I actually had to use it to force the hatchling out of the egg.

Edited September 17, 2019 by olympe

[Shadowdrake]

Probably not enough views to start with in that case. Another frequent solo exp'er had their first heavy-duty exp not turn-hatch immediately but luckily got enough views to hatch by the end of the exp.

[Cyberr]

Good to know that now we can discuss ND on the forums!

As I have achevied a lot of my scroll goals, then I can start doing some NDs. Didn't knew about this whole catcher stuff etc.

Today Gothh tried to make ND from little poor Imperial Fleshcrowne, but it died with no turning. I thought about this trying more with NDs, but with almost no knowledge. And now I found this topic and I'm glad it's here.

When my current eggies and hatchies will grow up then I think I'll start some experiments!

[Chococat0815]

Seeing this thread and the guides makes me want to try to make NDs again. But since I'm a European-based morning person, not sure how feasible that would be I'd have to go for the solo method with very stubborn breeds, but would hatcheries have enough traffic to give the necessary amount of stats to hatch them?

[olympe]

8 hours ago, Chococat0815 said:

Seeing this thread and the guides makes me want to try to make NDs again. But since I'm a European-based morning person, not sure how feasible that would be I'd have to go for the solo method with very stubborn breeds, but would hatcheries have enough traffic to give the necessary amount of stats to hatch them?

That's the big question. As I mentioned before, I didn't do that many experiments, but it was obvious that eggs took longer to crack during low-traffic times. You might want to unfog your experiments a little earlier than advisable under "normal" (eg. high-traffic) circumstances, but it's something you can work around. Another thing is to have the kill action ready and use it mere seconds before the egg would run out of time. Because there's a certain chance you'll get a hatchling - or that someone else will because the hatchling runs off to the AP. Either way, it's better than a guaranteed dead egg.