Influence/teleport/precog bug?

[Amazon_warrior]

So I had an egg I wanted to neglect.  I wanted to know what gender it was "naturally", so I precogged it and found it was male.  I decided I wanted to try for an ungendered, so I influenced it with a male Pink. So far, so normal:

 

 

During the experiment, it didn't turn and was saved by teleporting to another user, who then returned it to me.  I decided to fog it and try a second experiment with it the following day.  Because I am lazy have loads of Aeons, I decided to precog the egg again just to make sure that it would be male like I remembered (my memory is crap!)  Imagine my surprise when my Aeon told me it was now female:

 

 

So..... is this expected behaviour? Or is something odd going on? Answers on a postcard, please!

Edited September 10, 2019 by Amazon_warrior

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I'm not great with specifics, but could this be because it was teleported to another user? Perhaps the determined gender resets when it is handed to another user, but this seems pretty cool either way

[Fuzzbucket]

TJ once said that what an Aeon says is truth. I don't see how that can change in a teleport.

[Kukuru]

Looks like a bug. My guess is Aeons can't determine an ungendered. 

 

Next time i catch a paper or dino i will try to precog and check if the Aeon says a random gender.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Kukuru

[Seriva Senkalora]

@Kukuru, For papers and dinos you get an "unavailable for breed" message.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Seriva Senkalora

[Azuragosa]

I think I had a similar issue, I precog'd a few experiments and they all turned out female, so I influenced them male.  They were teleported before hatching, and grew up as male instead.  Either the influence stuck through a teleport, or something happened to swap the precog.

[olympe]

2 hours ago, Azuragosa said:

I think I had a similar issue, I precog'd a few experiments and they all turned out female, so I influenced them male.  They were teleported before hatching, and grew up as male instead.  Either the influence stuck through a teleport, or something happened to swap the precog.

 

This plus the OP seem to indicate that teleporting before hatching but after influencing switches the "natural" gender around... Anyone willing to team up for an experiment?

[Keileon]

What I imagine is going on is that Influence overrides- as in replaces- "natural" gender in the code; thus, when the Influence is bounced off by abandoning or trading, the game doesn't remember what the original gender was and rerolls it entirely.

 

Other than in the case of Influence, gender will stick through a Teleport, so it's not that it just rerolls when traded.

[olympe]

19 minutes ago, Keileon said:

What I imagine is going on is that Influence overrides- as in replaces- "natural" gender in the code; thus, when the Influence is bounced off by abandoning or trading, the game doesn't remember what the original gender was and rerolls it entirely.

 

Other than in the case of Influence, gender will stick through a Teleport, so it's not that it just rerolls when traded.

Well, there's an easy way to test either theory by one experiment. All it takes is two players with a couple of Pinks and Aeons and Magis, all able to use their BSA and an egg, preferably with more than 3 days left. Precog, Influence (same as precog), teleport to your partner. Who does the same.

Another experiment: Precog, Influence (different as precog), teleport to your partner. Rinse, repeat.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm up for it - later.

[TJ09]

Influence wears off after teleporting. Teleporting an influenced egg removes all guarantees about its gender, regardless of if precognition has been used on it (which is why precognition also wears off).

[Fuzzbucket]

You mean precog isn't 100% ? So if we teleport an egg it isn't safe to say it precogged male ?

[TJ09]

15 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You mean precog isn't 100% ? So if we teleport an egg it isn't safe to say it precogged male ?

If you teleport an influenced egg, yes. I didn't say anything about "teleporting a precogged egg remove all guarantees."

[StarSea]

So it sounds, and seems like, influencing an egg completely overrides the egg's intended gender. So when it gets teleported it just goes "time to randomize you" to the gender, and can't/doesn't actually tell what the gender was originally supposed to be.

 

Just boinked an egg back and forth with someone else while running precogs and influences. On the very second transfer, the "default" gender had switched. The more you know?

I guess it's not exactly an exploit or something, per-se, since if you want a specific gender you're better off just influencing the egg and holding it in the first place, and it can't be done to low-time eggs anyways. Just something that seems decent to know I suppose?

[Fuzzbucket]

11 hours ago, TJ09 said:

If you teleport an influenced egg, yes. I didn't say anything about "teleporting a precogged egg remove all guarantees."

 

Ah thanks. Though it remains odd as the egg in the OP precogged male in the first place, was influenced male on top of that, in order to do a Thing, and ended up female. So the ORIGINAL precog did fail. That is strange to me - but as it is in a position I shall never be in, won't affect me. Thanks.

[Confused Cat]

If I understand correctly, it works like this:

 

1. An egg is born, and the system sets a random gender it will be.

2. Precog will now correctly show this gender.

3. A user influences the egg. Influence never fails, so the egg gets the (new) gender selected by the user (which can also be the same as before).

4. The egg forgets its original gender, but remembers that its current gender was set by the influence action.

5. If the egg is teleported, the egg says "oh, hey, DC software, my gender was set by my previous owner, so I should get a new random one", and the system sets a random gender again.

6. Therefore, the egg's gender after teleporting can be anything.

 

If the egg's first owner had not influenced it, the egg would not get a new random gender when teleported. ( @TJ09 could you confirm if this is correct?)

 

 

This (if correct) is important to know in the following situation:

User A has an egg that precogs male before influencing. User A influences the egg to be female. The egg stays with user A until it is below 3 days and can no longer be (re-)influenced.

Now user A wants to give the egg to user B. Before we were aware of the above facts, user A would have said something like: "Hey B, if you want this to be female, I'll hatch it for you before teleporting so the influence sticks. If you want it to be male, I'll send it to you right now, so the influence is removed and it will be male as it was before."

Now we know this is not true. If user B wants the dragon to become male, they still have to teleport it before hatching, but they'll only have a (probably) 50% chance of it actually being male, because the egg doesn't remember what it was before it was influenced.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

My brain hurts.

[Shadowdrake]

It's like... an egg starts with a red or blue coat of paint. Influencing gives it another coat of paint. Removing influence strips away all the paint. The egg needs to be repainted, and the game doesn't remember what color paint it started with, so it just gives it another random coat of paint.

[Chaosdawn]

@Confused Cat  That's how I understood it as well. 

[Fuzzbucket]

I can run with that....

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

This has been strangely educational, and I love it. Very good to know!

[pinkgothic]

...it occurs to me this might help when the AP dips under 4d (wait derp this is always relevant, except when you can't influence any more - just that the whole "it precogs wrong / might gender wrong" is more frustrating when everything's incuhatchable but you're outta influences)!

 

Pick up a neat-lineaged egg. Don't want it? Precog it. Does it precog wrong for the lineage pattern? Influence it and then toss it back - the site re-rolls the egg's future gender, and it might turn out right for the next person who picks it up! (Even if they don't have / ran out of influences.)

 

Looks like we have a new "good neighbour" thing to do come Halloween!

Edited September 18, 2019 by pinkgothic

[Ardath Rekha]

My housemate and I have used this "bug" as a feature a few times, when one of us has accidentally influenced an egg "wrong." We then trade the egg back and forth to clear the erroneous influence and allow us to do it right the next time. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh sure - but this is something more complicated, where the original sex of an egg can be changed !