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High Lord November

Balloon Dragon BSA: Float

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11 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

Yeah, but fog sucks because you've got to unfog or double check everything if you don't remember exactly which eggs are which, or what cracking stage they are, or what that fogged blob in the action log that you influenced is. Every time you have to refog is another potential accidental abandon.

The better solution to that is to change fog. Unless it's not possible for technical reasons.

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6 minutes ago, Lost_Unicorn said:

The better solution to that is to change fog. Unless it's not possible for technical reasons.

It might be, but people can be vehemently against having artwork changed even if it's just an overlay, and changing the fog to silhouettes like the encyclopedia instead wouldn't be much of an improvement.

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Lore-wise it doesn't make much sense for fog to protect against Earthquake. If the egg is hidden in the fog it is still sitting on the ground, and therefore suscepitble to the ground shaking. The Float option seems like a more logical protection because if it's floating it makes sense that tremors wouldn't affect it.

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Full support!

 

It doesnt harm the game in anyway and having to use a BSA to protect an egg from a AOE BSA seems okay, especially since "Float" would only affect one egg at a time, so you are "punished" for having too many eggs you dont weant affected/forced to have quiet a number of Balloons to cover all eggs

Seems balanced to me regarding that

 

Tho the time restriction of not being able to use it on low time egg doesnt make sense

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3 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

It might be, but people can be vehemently against having artwork changed even if it's just an overlay, and changing the fog to silhouettes like the encyclopedia instead wouldn't be much of an improvement.

I think other solutions could be found then.
 

Spoiler

fogged_egg.png.363a5817351b51cdde739a093a44b2d8.png


We might not know if other solutions are possible/feasible to implement, but I don't think that makes "float is a workaround for fog's problems" exactly a good point.
 

 

2 hours ago, UnicornMaiden said:

Lore-wise it doesn't make much sense for fog to protect against Earthquake. If the egg is hidden in the fog it is still sitting on the ground, and therefore suscepitble to the ground shaking. The Float option seems like a more logical protection because if it's floating it makes sense that tremors wouldn't affect it.

Well, I don't think changing that lore would lead to many protests. There's actually not much to change: just a single sentence that needs to be expanded to say it lifts the egg into the air, and sprite could be made to look more like a typical cloud symbol, rather than just a ball. It could be a magical carpet instead of a fog cloud, or a magical carpet in a fog cloud.
Or maybe simply removing the "Eggs and hatchlings may still die while hidden." sentence from the help page could be enough, as people would just assume that's how it magically works in DC without questioning it. People do ask if fog protects from EQ, after all.

Edited by Lost_Unicorn

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I doubt fog will be changed to protect from EQ entirely because it is unlimited and can be turned on and off by the user.

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4 hours ago, UnicornMaiden said:

Lore-wise it doesn't make much sense for fog to protect against Earthquake. If the egg is hidden in the fog it is still sitting on the ground, and therefore suscepitble to the ground shaking. The Float option seems like a more logical protection because if it's floating it makes sense that tremors wouldn't affect it.

 

2 hours ago, Guillotine said:

I doubt fog will be changed to protect from EQ entirely because it is unlimited and can be turned on and off by the user.

 

Agree here. Float is already a semi-controversial idea in that it would be the only BSA made specifically to lessen the risks of another BSA, and the limitations/restrictions (like Floating one egg at a time or no actions able to be done on the floated egg or whatever) are meant to balance that.  I can't imagine the "Hide" action ever being changed to protect from EQ because *that* would be way more overpowered than anything else, has unlimited uses that can be done at any point, and imo it just doesn't really fit with what the 'Hide' function is. Hiding just just hiding the egg from view, that's the only thing it does, it doesn't protect anything. 

(I personally don't think 'Hide' fits with 'EQ-protection' lore-wise, but the biggest reason to support Float over a Hide-change imo is simply that Float is much more likely to happen, we've seen many times over the years that 'overpowered' suggestions get shot down and suggestions for big-benefit changes must have some trade-off or downside (as per TJ himself), something as huge as protecting an egg from the risk of death from EQ is much more likely to be implemented in a restricted BSA form than a free-for-all hide, imo.)

 

I 100% support changing to a 'transparent' fog, for scroll-owner convenience, but that has nothing to do with the whole EQ issue. 

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11 hours ago, Lost_Unicorn said:

Fog already does all of that except protecting from EQ. [snip!] How about just making fog also protect from EQ, instead of adding Float?

1) Holy moly, YES, changing lore would definitely lead to protests. Changing anything here leads to protests.

 

2) The purpose of fogging is to prevent views. The purpose of the suggested BSA is to prevent an action (EQ). The overlap of the BSA preventing views was suggested as a way to keep the BSA in check. I don't think changing the established mechanic of fogging just to avoid adding a BSA that has a similar suggested consequence (not purpose, but consequence) makes as much sense as you believe it does.

 

3) Because fog is just ground-level cloud cover. What's on the ground is still there, even if it isn't visible. There was a rule about suggestions requiring a better explanation than 'Because magic', and there's no other explanation for fog to suddenly cause eggs and hatchlings to float.

 

4) Because this would remove the 'protection' fogging currently offers against an egg hatching on its own naturally at the 4d mark.

 

The odds of EQ successfully forcing a hatchling from its shell (appear to) increase with a lower time and larger crack. Right now, you can hit an egg that's cracked, under 4d and fogged with EQ and potentially get your hatchling. If you have to remove fog first, you either have to hit it sooner, before it drops below 4d, or you have to risk it hatching before you can EQ.

 

Yes, the fact that fogging doesn't protect against EQ is arguably a benefit, not a thing that needs fixed.

 

5) Because the proposed consequence for the BSA - preventing a growing thing from collecting views without actually fogging it - would be a benefit in its own right.

 

Right now, the only person who can see a fogged thing is its owner, and only in Sort. If you want to share breeding results on the forum without exposing the egg to views, you have to grab a screenshot. With the proposed consequence of Float, you could just share the lineage link directly, because for the time it's Floating, you wouldn't have to worry about views.

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11 hours ago, Guillotine said:

I doubt fog will be changed to protect from EQ entirely because it is unlimited and can be turned on and off by the user.

Agreed - and it shouldn't do that - it has no CD and would basically The most of the risks out of EQ. NOT OK by me (much as I dread using EQ and have 3 more dead eggs to prove it....)

 

3 hours ago, schmupti said:

2) The purpose of fogging is to prevent views. The purpose of the suggested BSA is to prevent an action (EQ). The overlap of the BSA preventing views was suggested as a way to keep the BSA in check. I don't think changing the established mechanic of fogging just to avoid adding a BSA that has a similar suggested consequence (not purpose, but consequence) makes as much sense as you believe it does.

 

3) Because fog is just ground-level cloud cover. What's on the ground is still there, even if it isn't visible. There was a rule about suggestions requiring a better explanation than 'Because magic', and there's no other explanation for fog to suddenly cause eggs and hatchlings to float.

YES.

 

3 hours ago, schmupti said:

Right now, the only person who can see a fogged thing is its owner, and only in Sort. If you want to share breeding results on the forum without exposing the egg to views, you have to grab a screenshot. With the proposed consequence of Float, you could just share the lineage link directly, because for the time it's Floating, you wouldn't have to worry about views.

 

That is a good point. Maybe we could also have stun apply to eggs, to cope with the things in trade issue.

 

15 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Some people are using fog to keep their eggs from hatching before they can use EQ -- for instance, until another egg on their scroll that they don't want to risk has time to hatch. If they had to unfog them then before using EQ, the egg would most likely hatch before it could be EQ'd.

 

This is very true indeed.

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