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High Lord November

Balloon Dragon BSA: Float

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I was thinking - I like the concept of earthquake, but if you have a single egg you want to keep, it's not useable. I think it would be nice if the Balloon dragons could have a BSA "Float", where the dragon would take one egg and float with it, making it immune to EQ for 1 hour.

 

Suggested restrictions:

  • You wouldn't be able to use other BSAs on the egg while it is up in the air (such as incubate, influence, etc). Ward would remain in effect if the egg was warded before the float.
  • You can't abandon, trade, or kill the egg while under the effect of float.
  • You could probably fog the egg as that's human ranged magic.
  • This couldn't be used on low-time eggs (below something 2-3 days).
  • BSA has a cooldown of two weeks

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This exact suggestion is already on a thread - somewhere.....

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3 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

This exact suggestion is already on a thread - somewhere.....

 

I searched initially but couldn't find out how to limit it to a forum. Found it called "Levitate" BSA. I guess this topic can be locked. Would it be worth it to have a masterlist of BSA suggestions?

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18 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

This exact suggestion is already on a thread - somewhere.....

It's in a thread somewhere in that BSA-subforum we don't have any more... At least I'm pretty sure of it.

 

Regarding this BSA: Even though I'm pretty sure this has been shot down before, I'm still in favor. I like the idea that you cannot use any other BSAs nor most actions on the egg for as long as "float" works, as that adds some downsides to the BSA effect. However, I think that the 1-hour use is too short to really have an impact. If I may suggest a few changes:

  1. Instead of one hour, make it last 1 full day (24 hours to the second). This way, there is more of a balance.
  2. Affect all actions and BSA (as well as offering on trades), but also make sure the egg doesn't gain any stats whatsoever. This prevents (death by) sickness, which should take care make fogging obsolete.
    • This way there's nothing to exploit, like stopping things in a trade from growing up. Because, well, eggs in teleport cannot be targeted anyway. And floating eggs can't, either.
    • The only mini-benefit is that you have better control over when an egg may hatch, but it's only useful for breeds where the hatching-time is relevant - right now, that only includes the sunrise/sunset duo and siyats.
  3. I don't really think there needs to be an age restriction for eggs, either.

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I swear I've seen several BSAs like this being suggested in the old BSA forum... but it's long gone now.

I don't use Earthquake myself so I doubt I'd find this all that useful, but I'm sure someone else could find it useful so eh... I'll support it.

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I don't use BSA's much but from a lore point of view, i can totally see this happening and with how they float it would be a cool addition.

Basically i like what it adds love it when we can see what breeds can do with their abilities and or magic 

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I don't use Earthquake but I think the Float suggestion makes sense. I'm not in favour but I support it and I would also like to add more changes.

 

The Balloon Dragon eggs are literally floating, so if the Float is to be implemented, the said eggs themselves would be immune to Earthquake.

The afloat eggs are more prone to sickness. Sickness acquisition from getting many views in short span of time can be amplified by its irregular egg behaviour due to being afloat.

  • You wouldn't be able to use other BSAs on the egg while it is up in the air (such as incubate, influence, etc).

I think just the Incubate should not be able to be used or applied to an afloat egg since the Pinks can still manipulate an egg's temperature while afloat.

  • Ward would remain in effect if the egg was warded before the float.

Warding is definitely usable whatever the egg state is in since White Dragons are capable high level of healing.

  • You can't abandon, trade, or kill the egg while under the effect of float.

I think this is not needed since Float or just floating does not prevent an egg or does not give a protection from literally being abandoned, traded, or killed.

  • You could probably fog the egg as that's human ranged magic.
  • This couldn't be used on low-time eggs (below something 2-3 days).

I do not disagree with this one but I think it's unnecessary. Float is mainly effective and desirable if you're about to use Earthquake. The egg's age is not a really big factor for its effect, so with in respect to that, we can just leave it without age restrictions.

  • BSA has a cooldown of two weeks.

This is a good counter for the abuse of using Earthquake since it has only a week cooldown. 

 

I'm not an expert about the Dragons. Everything in my reply post is just how I understand them and the game.

Edited by Jae

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6 hours ago, Jae said:

I don't use Earthquake but I think the Float suggestion makes sense. I'm not in favour but I support it and I would also like to add more changes.

 

The Balloon Dragon eggs are literally floating, so if the Float is to be implemented, the said eggs themselves would be immune to Earthquake.

The afloat eggs are more prone to sickness. Sickness acquisition from getting many views in short span of time can be amplified by its irregular egg behaviour due to being afloat.

  • You wouldn't be able to use other BSAs on the egg while it is up in the air (such as incubate, influence, etc).

I think just the Incubate should not be able to be used or applied to an afloat egg since the Pinks can still manipulate an egg's temperature while afloat.

  • Ward would remain in effect if the egg was warded before the float.

Warding is definitely usable whatever the egg state is in since White Dragons are capable high level of healing.

  • You can't abandon, trade, or kill the egg while under the effect of float.

I think this is not needed since Float or just floating does not prevent an egg or does not give a protection from literally being abandoned, traded, or killed.

  • You could probably fog the egg as that's human ranged magic.
  • This couldn't be used on low-time eggs (below something 2-3 days).

I do not disagree with this one but I think it's unnecessary. Float is mainly effective and desirable if you're about to use Earthquake. The egg's age is not a really big factor for its effect, so with in respect to that, we can just leave it without age restrictions.

  • BSA has a cooldown of two weeks.

This is a good counter for the abuse of using Earthquake since it has only a week cooldown. 

 

I'm not an expert about the Dragons. Everything in my reply post is just how I understand them and the game.

 

The thing about the restrictions/downsides that you don't feel are necessary is this: Float would be a *huge* deal in the mechanics of the game. There is no other BSA in the game that exists specifically to negate another BSA's effects. Float is basically taking the risks of Earthquake and making a loophole for it. Given that Earthquake is a fairly 'high-powered' BSA to begin with, allowing eggs to be hatched before they are normally able, the risks of Earthquake are needed to balance it. Float takes away those risks, therefore Float needs to have enough restrictions and such to balance *that*. 

 

I'm still not supportive of this suggestion in general because it kind of seems.... iffy... to implement a whole new BSA just to counter the effects of another BSA. But if something like this were implemented, I definitely think that pretty much nothing should be able to be done to the egg while it's 'floating'. If the Balloon dragon is physically holding the egg and floating with it, it makes sense that we wouldn't be able to abandon, kill, etc, and that other dragons wouldn't be able to affect it either. 

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1 minute ago, HeatherMarie said:

The thing about the restrictions/downsides that you don't feel are necessary is this: Float would be a *huge* deal in the mechanics of the game. There is no other BSA in the game that exists specifically to negate another BSA's effects. Float is basically taking the risks of Earthquake and making a loophole for it. Given that Earthquake is a fairly 'high-powered' BSA to begin with, allowing eggs to be hatched before they are normally able, the risks of Earthquake are needed to balance it. Float takes away those risks, therefore Float needs to have enough restrictions and such to balance *that*. 

Actually, Earthquake works just like the kill action when performed on eggs. Only difference is that killing targets only one specific egg, while earthquake can affect all of them. In essence, EQ is a mass kill, probably with a slightly higher chance for "no effect" than the actual kill action.

However, giving one of your eggs "immunity" against EQ isn't something that breaks the deal because, well, the floating egg won't be affected positively, either. It won't hatch due to the earthquake. Which balances the protection the egg has.

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1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

The thing about the restrictions/downsides that you don't feel are necessary is this: Float would be a *huge* deal in the mechanics of the game. There is no other BSA in the game that exists specifically to negate another BSA's effects. Float is basically taking the risks of Earthquake and making a loophole for it. Given that Earthquake is a fairly 'high-powered' BSA to begin with, allowing eggs to be hatched before they are normally able, the risks of Earthquake are needed to balance it. Float takes away those risks, therefore Float needs to have enough restrictions and such to balance *that*. 

 

I'm still not supportive of this suggestion in general because it kind of seems.... iffy... to implement a whole new BSA just to counter the effects of another BSA. But if something like this were implemented, I definitely think that pretty much nothing should be able to be done to the egg while it's 'floating'. If the Balloon dragon is physically holding the egg and floating with it, it makes sense that we wouldn't be able to abandon, kill, etc, and that other dragons wouldn't be able to affect it either. 

 

Ahhhh, now I remember why I wasn't originally in support of this BSA... Heather, you've swayed me. I think I'm on the fence, for all the reasons you've stated. A BSA that exists purely to negate another BSA seems slightly strange if not a little unfair mechanic-wise. Sure, it'd be a useful BSA to have, but Earthquake has to have such a huge risk as a payoff to allow it to function in the first place, I agree. It'd be like having a BSA that means a Vampire can't kill an egg it bites, which would be really ehhhh to me. (PS: I love your new profile picture!)

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I don't use earthquake, so I have no dog in this hunt-- but EQ would still carry a huge risk regardless. Any egg you use it on can be irrevocably killed. That's as risky as you can get in a collection game!

 

The proposed BSA wouldn't change that. It would exempt some eggs from danger, but also from reward. Any egg you actually used EQ on would still be at the risk of its death.

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3 hours ago, olympe said:

Actually, Earthquake works just like the kill action when performed on eggs. Only difference is that killing targets only one specific egg, while earthquake can affect all of them. In essence, EQ is a mass kill, probably with a slightly higher chance for "no effect" than the actual kill action.

However, giving one of your eggs "immunity" against EQ isn't something that breaks the deal because, well, the floating egg won't be affected positively, either. It won't hatch due to the earthquake. Which balances the protection the egg has.

 

Earthquake is quite a bit different from the kill action, since it affects all eggs instead of just targeting one. The kill action is much less risky in that respect, because you are only 'risking' one single egg, and you decide what egg that is. The way I see it, if you want an Earthquake effect without the risk of a special egg dying, just use kill. It's targeted, it works. If you want to use Earthquake because of the mass-effect, you also need to accept the risks that come with it. (general 'you' here, not you specifically)

 

And yes, while you are correct that the floated egg wouldn't get any positive effect from Earthquake, I don't think that by itself balances things. Because the whole point is having an egg you *don't* want to use Earthquake on. 'Not affected by Earthquake' is kind of the whole point. It can't both be the reason for the BSA and the drawback to the BSA, that doesn't really make sense. Earthquake has risks. Using Earthquake includes *all* eggs being risked. If you want to get around that, that's a big deal, imo. It should have enough restrictions/balances so that it's not simply 'let's do away with the risks!'. 

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On 9/3/2019 at 4:10 PM, Sazandora said:

I swear I've seen several BSAs like this being suggested in the old BSA forum... but it's long gone now.

I don't use Earthquake myself so I doubt I'd find this all that useful, but I'm sure someone else could find it useful so eh... I'll support it.

I don't use earthquake much either. PRIMARILY because I very generally have at least ONE egg I'd be loathe to risk on the gamble. IF I had this option I might very WELL consider using it.

 

So.. support... even IF I didn't use it, having the option is cool and makes sense to me. :)

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I never use earthquake because of the odds of killing something I want to keep. I probably still wouldn't be likely to use it, because it would still risk killing at least one egg. But I am not against it for those who would find it useful.

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15 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

Earthquake is quite a bit different from the kill action, since it affects all eggs instead of just targeting one. The kill action is much less risky in that respect, because you are only 'risking' one single egg, and you decide what egg that is. The way I see it, if you want an Earthquake effect without the risk of a special egg dying, just use kill. It's targeted, it works. If you want to use Earthquake because of the mass-effect, you also need to accept the risks that come with it. (general 'you' here, not you specifically)

Since using the kill action on 7 out of 8 eggs would be the same as using float on one egg and EQ on the other, I don't see it as much of a difference. The only real difference I see is that using float and EQ is most likely more convenient.

 

On another note, a BSA that disables the use of all other BSAs has some other nice effects.

Imagine you have 8 eggs of the same breed - or expect to have them soon. This way, if you want to trade away 7 of them but keep the 8th - maybe even later on - you can easily "float" your egg for keeping to avoid misclicks when creating the teleports. That kind of thing. Or if you want to prevent yourself from "accidentally" incubating your Siyat/Sunrise/Sunset, or keep yourself from accidentally influencing your ND experiments. Or if you want to prevent yourself from accidentally biting a precious egg - after all, misclicks do happen. Especially on mobile.

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