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2019-07-21 - July Dragon Release

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4 hours ago, Niyaka said:

Oh yeah, did the concept artists have any additional info to share? 

For the Glowbacks, Mewtie and I only did the art so there's not much to say other than the fact that the OP of the Glowbacks did write some encyclopedia info. 'u' Perhaps @ShadowAzure might come around and share some concept info?

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Ugh! I've still only snagged ONE egg! *bangs head on desk* I hate missing the actual drop days.

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I don't get why people aren't allowed to say they dislike something. Real human people work on books, on films, on paintings... and people are allowed to discuss them freely. And this whole conversation about constructive criticism. Sometimes people don't want to criticize, they might not think it is bad and warrants criticism, they just don't like it. And yea, lately dragon releases that I enjoy have been few and far between but I've tried to concentrate on one aspect that I do like or not say anything at all. Which is probably diplomatic but also doesn't give my real opinion in case TJ was interested in our opinions when he decides what to release next. 

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folks are allowed to say they dislike things, but similarly, people are also welcome to say "that's not a nice thing to say." And they'd be right in saying so, really -- it's not nice to come into a thread in order to talk about disliking volunteer work, especially if there's nothing constructive being said alongside it. There are, after all, people involved in these art projects, and we can't pretend their feelings don't exist in conversations about their work. If you don't feel the need to be nice, then don't! But you'll have to accept that other people are going to remind you to be kind and courteous to the artists here.

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I think it is interesting to note that the poster in question had mentioned earlier in the thread that they didn't like the Luminox and gave some reasons. No one criticized them for their opinion. It was only when they came back later and said they really despised the male that there was a fuss. So, I think a lot has to do with the way you present your criticism.

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Its also worth a note that image I posted about not just bashing art comes from the forum rules.

And making sure TJ knows your opinions on what you think makes a good sprite or not doesn't need to include saying things like "I hate these dragons" which, btw, isn't even helpful feedback for anyone involved. Instead of saying how much you hate a dragon, perhaps look around the dragon requests board and show support for ideas you do like. Or pitch your own idea.

You don't have to bash anything to give your opinion on future releases.

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Pygmies are just pure awesomeness! I'm in love and need more of them 🌈

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I love our new adults! Great work artists!

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Posted (edited)

Thanks to all others who were involved in the creation of these newly released dragons, and to TJ! The Luminoxes are among my favorites on the entire site!

 

As many here probably already know, Glowback Pygmies were a Dragon Request. SkyWolf25 readily jumped in when I asked for help with the adult sprites and is responsible for the adorable hatchlings, which I only edited slightly.

The sprite of the female adult received an update while hidden, not because the sprite needed it in order to get accepted, but simply because SkyWolf25 and I agreed that we could make something better. The head should be pretty much the same as before, but if I recall correctly, the entire rest was redone. I might share a comparison here a little later, but need to ask Sky first and find what could be the old sprite's latest version.

 

As a bonus, here is a little sprite I made of a Glowback Pygmy's head. :3

ddcjxmp-96bce003-c18c-4ff7-8df5-9d1a87b4

Regarding usage:

Spoiler

Anyone may put it into their signature on the Dragon Cave Forums only. For use as an avatar, use the one on a 90x90 pixel canvas:

ddcjx62-3a5b0fc1-3795-4688-8d40-276e7820

The forums seem to crop avatar images by default, which would ruin the quality. After uploading the avatar image, preserve the quality by dragging two opposite corners of the selection to the outside until it isn't possible to increase the selection size any further.

 

Credits aren't necessary, but don't claim this sprite to be made by anyone but me. Don't use the image outside of the official Dragon Cave Forums, and please don't make edits to it of any kind without asking me first in a message and obtaining my permission.

 

EDIT: Aaand Sky said it's okay for me to share the old female adult sprite here for comparison! I'm not a hundred percent certain that this was the latest version of the old sprite, but even then, it should be very similar to what we had as an end result:

ddck6um-8cb1f144-6ee5-4eb5-8a2e-8d3d7a62 ->  dd1cn36-6641cdea-e0b1-4079-a3ca-aabd3f18

Edited by Mewtie

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4 hours ago, purplehaze said:

I think it is interesting to note that the poster in question had mentioned earlier in the thread that they didn't like the Luminox and gave some reasons. No one criticized them for their opinion. It was only when they came back later and said they really despised the male that there was a fuss. So, I think a lot has to do with the way you present your criticism.

 

This. very much. There are ways to criticise; constructive crit is helpful. Loathing (and also, BTW, ADORING !) is not.

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I totally missed this release, but I already caught 3 pygmies and 2 wyverns so I'm not too worried. I love both adults (as usual), the coloring in Luminoxes is super pretty and the Glolwbacks are just so darn cute. Well done spriters!

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10 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

While you weren't talking to me, I feel the need to say something. With pretty much any new releases, some people aren't going to like them. And this forum has a habit of trying to shut down any and all negative responses to sprites. What is someone trying to 'accomplish' when they say something negative? The exact same thing the positive posts are trying to 'accomplish': expressing their opinion. Which everyone *should* be allowed to do. There are *tons* of people in this thread posting positive/happy/etc reactions, and no one asks them what they are trying to accomplish. People should be able to express negative reactions just as much as positive reactions.

Thank you.

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Posted (edited)

"Shutting down any and all negative responses" isn't the same as pointing out that that it's not nice to bash a sprite without saying anything constructive about WHY or how to improve it. That is just being rude.

 

It's fine if you don't like a sprite. It's fine if you say that. But don't expect to say it like that without deserved backlash.

 

That said, not my favorite release but I like em just the same. Think the male Luminox would look good with female Spirit Wards!

Edited by Keileon

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It's fine not to like a sprite. There are some I very much dislike - even some from within the last year. But I know others like them - taste counts ! - and just saying I loathe them is of no value to anyone as a comment. "I don't like them because xyz" is a whole different thing. The earlier post disliking them, and ending with:

 

Quote

 I would've liked these better if both genders used the female sprite.

 

actually explained what you don't like. That was fine. "I despise them" helps no-one. Nor would "I just love them". The only difference there is that "I just love them" cannot hurt anyone's feelings, so nothing further is said.. 

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

What is someone trying to 'accomplish' when they say something negative? The exact same thing the positive posts are trying to 'accomplish': expressing their opinion. Which everyone *should* be allowed to do. There are *tons* of people in this thread posting positive/happy/etc reactions, and no one asks them what they are trying to accomplish. People should be able to express negative reactions just as much as positive reactions.

(This isn't only meant for HeatherMarie, I just quoted this because it gave me the start for my own line of thinking.)

 

Just to add another perspective: There actually is more to it in this context than just expressing opinion.

The creators of new dragons here at DC "work" for free. The only reward they get for all their work is a. seeing their dragon in cave and b. the appreciation of the other users. So, while I can't speak for everyone, I guess people that express positive/happy/etc reactions do this not only to give their opinion to the world at large, they also do it to let the creators of the dragon know how much they appreciate their work, and that said work made them feel positive in some way.

So, uttering opinions in public spaces like this might usually be for its own sake, because people like to let their opinion be known, and find others that share it. (Talking about pure opinion here, not feedback or criticism.) But when the people who made the thing that the opinion is about are "in the room" (reading the thread), it gets another level - it will serve as a reward or a rebuke to them. And that's what giving that opinion will "accomplish" in this case.

 

And that's also where I'd ask anyone who wants to express a negative opinion to do so in a polite, non-hurtful way. Humans are social beings, they are designed to care about their social environment and the signals it is sending. (More or less, depending on the circumstances, but in essence that's how it is.) So yes, you always should exercise circumspection when giving out negative things to people who didn't do anything to you out of malice. If someone designed a dragon to share it with everyone, and you don't like it, well, that's sad, but they didn't do anything to you, so you have no right to do anything to them. You can of course still express your own disappointment/frustration/sadness/whatever, but you should word it in a way that doesn't spread the grief.

 

@Mewtie

Ohhh, that close-up is gorgeous ! Looks a bit like a fox. Tiny, blue rainbow-foxes ! Now I love them even more ! 😃 Thank you for this !

I have to say I would have preferred the old pose of the female sprite, because it looks more harmonious to me with the billowing wings and the legs not "sticking out" from the image, but I see why you did the new version (makes everything a lot more discernible), and it still looks good.

Edited by Lantean_Pegasus

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7 minutes ago, Lantean_Pegasus said:

(This isn't only meant for HeatherMarie, I just quoted this because it gave me the start for my own line of thinking.)

 

Just to add another perspective: There actually is more to it in this context than just expressing opinion.

The creators of new dragons here at DC "work" for free. The only reward they get for all their work is a. seeing their dragon in cave and b. the appreciation of the other users. So, while I can't speak for everyone, I guess people that express positive/happy/etc reactions do this not only to give their opinion to the world at large, they also do it to let the creators of the dragon know how much they appreciate their work, and that said work made them feel positive in some way.

So, uttering opinions in public spaces like this might usually be for its own sake, because people like to let their opinion be known, and find others that share it. (Talking about pure opinion here, not feedback or criticism.) But when the people who made the thing that the opinion is about are "in the room" (reading the thread), it gets another level - it will serve as a reward or a rebuke to them. And that's what giving that opinion will "accomplish" in this case.

 

And that's also where I'd ask anyone who wants to express a negative opinion to do so in a polite, non-hurtful way. Humans are social beings, they are designed to care about their social environment and the signals it is sending. (More or less, depending on the circumstances, but in essence that's how it is.) So yes, you always should exercise circumspection when giving out negative things to people who didn't do anything to you out of malice. If someone designed a dragon to share it with everyone, and you don't like it, well, that's sad, but they didn't do anything to you, so you have no right to do anything to them. You can of course still express your own disappointment/frustration/sadness/whatever, but you should word it in a way that doesn't spread the grief.

 

All of this, actually.

 

No one is saying you have to LOVE every sprite or that it isn't OK to have favorites or 'not-so-favorites'. I myself DEFINITELY have some sprites that I prefer over others. That is perfectly normal and natural. NOT every new dragon is going to become a 'I MUST hoard that' grade favorite for you personally.Thing is, A person has to remember that NOT everyone's taste is the same as theirs, first of all.... and we DO need to keep in mind the feelings involved. People ARE sort of attached emotionally to the art they create, like it and agree with it or not.  That also seems to be human nature. The beauty of this game is that if there is a sprite that isn't a favorite of yours... you DON'T have to collect it. That is your right, just as it is mine.

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But this is what I'm saying. The artists shouldn't take this to heart. They do great work and make great sprites. But even if a sprite is good, it is just impossible to match everyone's taste. And when people go "eeeeh do not like" that is no reflection on the artist's work but on the taste of the person who comments.

 

For example, I personally like big sprites, with very clear, clean details. Like the Aqualis for example. Playful, detailed sprites do nothing for me. That doesn't mean they are badly done or have no place on DC.

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Being kind is cool, folks. 

 

No need to be mean and edgy,I like to think we're past that. I used to be one of those "I'm not mean I'm honest" folks in high school. Turns out I was just mean and I hurt a lot of people around me for no good reason.

 

Let people enjoy their success, it doesn't cost you anything. 

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1 hour ago, blah said:

But even if a sprite is good, it is just impossible to match everyone's taste. And when people go "eeeeh do not like" that is no reflection on the artist's work but on the taste of the person who comments.

This is generally true! However, it's really hard not to take someone saying "Hey, that thing you made? I despise it and the world would be better if you never made it :/" personally, especially if you are proud of it! Saying "eeeeh, do not like, prefer this other thing" gets your point across while being less hurtful!

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Posted (edited)

On 7/25/2019 at 9:11 AM, Mewtie said:

Bugzilla is probably referring to the Thuwed names. There can't be two dragons with identical names on the site, so when there are two adult sprites, TJ usually names the male adult "[breed name] Dragon" in Saurian and the female one "Girl [breed name] Dragon" in Saurian.

Oh, that's depressing. The male as default always is. You'd think that especially having a majority female player base, he'd be more aware of the fact that we're not secondary to males... :(

Edit: The head sprite is beautiful!

Edited by cbussiere

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4 hours ago, Mewtie said:

 

EDIT: Aaand Sky said it's okay for me to share the old female adult sprite here for comparison! I'm not a hundred percent certain that this was the latest version of the old sprite, but even then, it should be very similar to what we had as an end result:

ddck6um-8cb1f144-6ee5-4eb5-8a2e-8d3d7a62 ->  dd1cn36-6641cdea-e0b1-4079-a3ca-aabd3f18

Love your portrait Mewtie ❤️ Can't say this enough.

Our intention was mostly to make the legs and wings not blend in with everything else. I think we were successful 'u'

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Posted (edited)

One of the forum rules is to respect others.

 

Quote

Respect Others

It isn't possible to get far in the world if you refuse to respect others. Treat others kindly, don't insult them, and others will do the same in return. If you refuse to treat others well, then you will get not only a warning, but a bad reputation, which opens the door for more negativity.

 

This applies to spriters and everyone on the forum.

Edited by Kaini

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1 hour ago, TCA said:

This is generally true! However, it's really hard not to take someone saying "Hey, that thing you made? I despise it and the world would be better if you never made it :/" personally, especially if you are proud of it! Saying "eeeeh, do not like, prefer this other thing" gets your point across while being less hurtful!

 

I'm not going to argue with that. It does reflect on their manners as well.

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There are plenty of sprites I don't like, and even some artists' styles that I'm not as fond of as others.  (I imagine others feel that way about my work too, and that's fine!)  Guess what?  I'm not going to say that to their face, or spout off to anyone else where it might get back to the original person.  

 

YES, you can say you don't like something.  However, it is entirely possible to be honest while showing tact and kindness, even without "sugarcoating".  Saying "I hate this!" doesn't help anything, and it's unnecessary.  "I think X could be better because Y" is actually helpful critique.  It's not hard to boost each other up.  My grandmother LIVED by the line, "If you can't think of something nice to say, don't say anything at all."

 

The forum rules are pretty clear regarding this situation.  Be respectful of others, and use constructive criticism.  "I hate this" is neither.

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