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Guaranteed prizes via scaled-up raffle-entry-like system

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17 hours ago, olympe said:

Actually, for CB ones, we don't have this, as they're given out with fixed ratios of 1 gold : 2 silvers : 3 bronzes.

Oh, right, you mean gold-colored prizes, not gold dragons. I see. Maybe the gold/silver challenges could be slightly harder.

 

2 hours ago, VixenDra said:

And do you mean the time to complete the task/s is limited?

No I don't.

2 hours ago, VixenDra said:

It's still much worse than simply adding Tinsels and shimmers to the Shard shop.

I would prefer that. It has been refused, though, and I think this has some chance.

3 hours ago, Fiona said:

If it's guaranteed, it's not a prize, it's a wage. Opposed to anything that guarantees a prize.

This seems more like a semantics issue than much of a material criticism.

14 hours ago, DarkEternity said:

I support this but I'm a teensy bit troubled by the infinite doubling of prize goals. 

It could be x1.5 each time, or +50 each time, or something.

15 hours ago, Qualeo said:

Based on the suggestion, I'm presuming you're not required to do the challenge. Once the "Challenge shuffle" cooldown is met, I'm assuming it would generate a random set (maybe x amount at a time) that could potentially be the one you're looking for. That's kinda what I'm assuming works with the challenge thing, which gives you the option to not do what it gives you and wait until one you want to do appears. Correct me if I'm wrong though OP, that's the vibe I was kinda getting from it.

Yep, that's it! My idea was for 6 different challenges, 1 for each dragon type, every shuffling, but it could be something different.

7 minutes ago, Marrionetta said:

I would advise waiting until we get a sense for how the new scaled up prize pools distribute before demanding further changes.

 

The current prizes are distributed via a mechanism of chance. It was always intended to be this way. There was never any intention of these being distributed as guaranteed achievement awards.

We won't actually know how many are being distributed anyway, and while it is something good it doesn't really address the underlying issue of one of the most valuable dragons in the game being distributed randomly, which distorts the trading market.

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11 minutes ago, Marrionetta said:

I would advise waiting until we get a sense for how the new scaled up prize pools distribute before demanding further changes.

 

The current prizes are distributed via a mechanism of chance. It was always intended to be this way. There was never any intention of these being distributed as guaranteed achievement awards.

Actually, the original prizes weren't to be distributed via a mechanism of chance, but for an achievement. It was a Tree Decoratiing Contest, not a Tree Decorating Raffle.

 

That being said, we have no idea at which scale Prizes will be raffled off. 1 prize per 10 raffle entries? 1 prize per 10,000 raffle entries? We also don't get to see any numbers regarding the raffles - how many prizes are given out, how many entries are there. So, the change could be a big one - or be totally insignificant.

Edited by olympe

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IMO we need to give it time.  I feel that the scaling based on the number of entries is an improvement on the system.  However considering we haven't seen the results yet, making judgments on its effectiveness is premature at best.

 

We can say we wish Prizes were never given out until we're blue in the face, but they're here to stay.  I like the rarity of them myself - it makes getting one special - but I do feel there should be a way to earn them even if it is difficult.

 

For the record, everyone has different ways of playing and no one way is "better" than another.  DC offers plenty of flexibility in that there is no end game or score to beat.

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I honestly think if the intended distinction of a Prize that is won vs a prize that is . .. "earned".. . They possibly would have been names SurPrized dragons as it's an unexpected won Prize via chance.... but that name sounds silly. How about Lotto Dragons or RNG RNG Dragons?

 

I think Marrionetta is probably a pretty solid source on the intenet of these Dargons. Dictionaries aren't going to win this one.

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2 hours ago, Marrionetta said:

I would advise waiting until we get a sense for how the new scaled up prize pools distribute before demanding further changes.

 

The current prizes are distributed via a mechanism of chance. It was always intended to be this way. There was never any intention of these being distributed as guaranteed achievement awards.

 

Thanks Marri :) 

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8 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

 

Don't really see why it should be more work for one or the other.  It isn't now.  Gold recipients do the exact same thing as Bronze winners.

 

Very good point!

 

 

2 hours ago, Marrionetta said:

I would advise waiting until we get a sense for how the new scaled up prize pools distribute before demanding further changes.

 

The current prizes are distributed via a mechanism of chance. It was always intended to be this way. There was never any intention of these being distributed as guaranteed achievement awards.

 

I've got to agree with @olympe here, that's just not factually true. The very first introduction of the Prizes were *rewards* for a *contest* that players *voted* on. That is not in any sense a 'mechanism of chance'. So it's simply not true that it was 'always intended' to be chance. It may be true that the current *monthly raffles* are intended to be chance.... But 'intended' does not necessarily equal 'best way to do things' or 'best for the game' or whatever. Now, being the spriter, you of course have a better inside knowledge of what was originally going on when Prizes were made... But that was years and years ago. It may be time to re-evaluate things. 

 

edit: Also, I see multiple people saying we should give this new raffle scale time before talking about a suggestion like this.... But one of the biggest points of suggestions like this is to *not* have to rely only on pure luck via the raffle. It doesn't necessarily matter if raffle numbers increase, at least not for this type of suggestion, because *many* users would prefer an actual way to *work* towards getting a Prize rather then waiting years and years for a raffle win that may never come. 

Edited by HeatherMarie

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I want my breed to be distributed via mechanism of chance. Embrace the chaos, friends.

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And this is why I think artists are granted too much power on this site. Everyone could agree to a suggestion, even TJ could (theoretically, although I doubt it's the case here) - and yet, if the artists in question don't, it's automatically a no-go.

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28 minutes ago, olympe said:

And this is why I think artists are granted too much power on this site. Everyone could agree to a suggestion, even TJ could (theoretically, although I doubt it's the case here) - and yet, if the artists in question don't, it's automatically a no-go.

 

And I think if they didn't have that control, we would soon have no artists. If I created something with conditions of how it was to be handled, I would not want those conditions changed after the event.

 

I would have liked to see them in the store at Tiffany-plus prices - but if Marri says no, that's OK by me.

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49 minutes ago, olympe said:

And this is why I think artists are granted too much power on this site. Everyone could agree to a suggestion, even TJ could (theoretically, although I doubt it's the case here) - and yet, if the artists in question don't, it's automatically a no-go.

Exactly what I wanted to say.

About the art edits permissions and descriptions (like lore but not use), sure, the spriters/concept makers should indeed have a say at least to some extend (and also should have some limited time to respond before the site owner can decide due to the spriter's inactivity), but about the game and mechanics and smilar itself? no, not the final say at least. The site owner should be able to control the game fully, if a change should be done, it just shoud be done, the spriters, by submitting their art for in-game use, should automaticaly pass the copyrights to the images to the game. I sprite for a game like this and it works best.

There were plenty of sick situations on a spriter's whim in DC's history (many of which got fixed by now) and I don't get it why is that still a thing...

 

Not to mention, initially-DC spriters tend to carry the arrogance DC's decisive power gave them to other games they sprite for... to the point some game owners are afraid to make good gameplay changes to said artists' critters "because that DC game made them oversensitive to their spritework etc.". This is also sick.

 

I, for instance, volunteer-work within this contract: http://grynnsfairytales.com/ToO%20contracts/content%20creator-blanket.pdf (please pay attention to 2 3 and 4). DC artists should sign a similar one with DC tbh.
The site owners do allow the spriters to make decisions, within reason, do respect them, but are not restricted by them if necessary. And it works.

Edited by VixenDra

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So future prizes from the store are a definite no? Because I've been hoarding my shards just in case it ever changes. I don't care if I would have to pay 50,000 shards for one prize, that's still more of a chance to get one than in the ten+ years I've been on the site.

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Going by what Marri just said - no.

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What if I don't want to "embrace" the RNG? The tree decorating contest sure as heck was NOT "random", people voted on whose tree was the best and those who won got Prizes. If that's your definition of "random", then... I have no idea what to say. It's not like a third World War would suddenly begin if CB Prizes were made more easily available. I've been playing this damn game since 2009 and have not won a single danged thing in any freaking raffles or contests or whatever. I've participated in every single raffle the site has had, no luck. Things like this shouldn't rely on just pure dumb ****ing luck, no matter what the artists say. Vixendra, I'm with you here -- Marri's comment just reeks of sheer arrogance.

 

Yeah, yeah, getting a little sidetracked here again. But I support anything that fixes this stupid reliance on RNG. I'm an on again-off again-WoW player, that game gave me a big-enough dose of dumb RNG to last a lifetime and I do NOT want it to seep into other games I love.

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The tree decorating thing was perhaps the most horrible thing I ever experienced here. NEVER AGAIN, please. Luckily that has not happened again since.

 

I have played since well befriend  before the start of the raffles and I never won either. But I still support the artists.

 

My autocorrect is rather odd :wacko:

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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5 hours ago, HPhaeton said:

So future prizes from the store are a definite no? Because I've been hoarding my shards just in case it ever changes. I don't care if I would have to pay 50,000 shards for one prize, that's still more of a chance to get one than in the ten+ years I've been on the site.

It's not a definite no. I had a big market suggestions thread up years ago and TJ said that if the prizes were in it they'd be limited. I'm hoarding shards for the exact same reason.

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39 minutes ago, DarkEternity said:

It's not a definite no. I had a big market suggestions thread up years ago and TJ said that if the prizes were in it they'd be limited. I'm hoarding shards for the exact same reason.

 

Same.

I literally need nothing from the current shop. Only the Prizes bug me because those are literallly the only breed I can't breed PBs of... (with holidays I'm forced to treat all Valentines as one breed for PBing's sake) I coudl consider gettign CB Golds but I'm fine with my PB pair unlike with my non-PB Tin and Shim arrowheads...
As for me, if limit was 2 shop-borns per color per breed (max 12 shopborn total), then fine.

Edited by VixenDra

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11 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

And I think if they didn't have that control, we would soon have no artists. If I created something with conditions of how it was to be handled, I would not want those conditions changed after the event.

 

I would have liked to see them in the store at Tiffany-plus prices - but if Marri says no, that's OK by me.

 

(bolding for emphasis) I get this, I really do. And usually I very much agree that the creators/spriters' wishes need to be respected. But *that* 'condition' was not present in the original Prize release. Marri is saying what they 'want' for the breed, but at this point what's basically happening is actually 'Prizes were first introduced in Way X, but then it was decided that would be changed to Way Y' and now Way Y is the 'standard' way and everyone seems to act like it'd be a huge colossal change in their existence if Way Y changed. If Prizes were *created* with intention of Way Y, then they should've been *introduced* that way. But they weren't. Way Y is not the end-all-be-all, it's not how it's always been, and I don't think it's doing the game itself any favors to act like Way Y is the only possible way. 

 

(Actually, technically it would be that Prizes were first introduced in Way X (contest with voting), *then* they went to Way Z (random holiday drawings) and *then* they went to Way Y, random monthly drawings.)

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Going round in circles about the intended release of prizes with the creater of the tinsels is very counterproductive at this point. I would think that the actual creater of said dragon would know what she is talking about when it comes to her babies.  Spriters should at least have some say when it comes to the use of their artwork. 

 

We just had an update on the release of prizes so perhaps we should at least see what that update brings us before we complain. 

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8 minutes ago, osean said:

Going round in circles about the intended release of prizes with the creater of the tinsels is very counterproductive at this point. I would think that the actual creater of said dragon would know what she is talking about when it comes to her babies.  Spriters should at least have some say when it comes to the use of their artwork. 

 

We just had an update on the release of prizes so perhaps we should at least see what that update brings us before we complain. 

Seriously, as long as it's random, it won't change much of anything. We're talking about a stupid "game" of chance that will randomly select a few people who win - and a whole lot of people who lose. Same as ever.

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Perhaps insulting the creator of the very thing you want to find alternative ways of release for is not the best way to approach it. 

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There are many mechanics on this game you can influence and can control. You can also choose to not enter the raffle any given month. Having this one particular mechanic left to chance doesn’t ruin the game. I’m sorry you can’t directly exert influence and obtain a specific generation of tinsel through force of will, but this is by design. Some mechanics are chance based. We love variety.

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Some people have heard me say this before but at this point I really just want Prizes to stop being the almighty gods of the economy. I really don't care if I personally get a CB, if I do then cool, if not that's cool too. Random distribution is fine and all but it absolutely cannot result in huge impacts on the economy. It funnels rares to the lucky few and takes away from the rest and I'm rather sick of it (why is it so hard for some people to trade for CB Golds? The mystery continues...), especially seeing countless trades in the hub asking for 2g Prizes.

 

If this new raffle update can fix the economy then that's perfect. The value is decreasing, but the faster it decreases the faster we can fix the economy.

 

Also I've always been a fan of connection between lore and gameplay, though I know DC doesn't care much about establishing a connection but I think it makes the most sense lore-wise to just toss them into the biomes.

Edited by KrazyKarp

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8 hours ago, KrazyKarp said:

Some people have heard me say this before but at this point I really just want Prizes to stop being the almighty gods of the economy. I really don't care if I personally get a CB, if I do then cool, if not that's cool too. Random distribution is fine and all but it absolutely cannot result in huge impacts on the economy. It funnels rares to the lucky few and takes away from the rest and I'm rather sick of it (why is it so hard for some people to trade for CB Golds? The mystery continues...), especially seeing countless trades in the hub asking for 2g Prizes.

 

If this new raffle update can fix the economy then that's perfect. The value is decreasing, but the faster it decreases the faster we can fix the economy.

 

This so VERY much. Though I am lucky enough to have been gifted several 2 gens. I hate the DC "stockmarket" with a passion.

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18 hours ago, Marrionetta said:

There are many mechanics on this game you can influence and can control. You can also choose to not enter the raffle any given month. Having this one particular mechanic left to chance doesn’t ruin the game. I’m sorry you can’t directly exert influence and obtain a specific generation of tinsel through force of will, but this is by design. Some mechanics are chance based. We love variety.

Not entering the raffle is not a very useful solution.

 

Anyway, I don't have much against dragons being granted randomly per se (I mean, half the mechanisms in DC are part-random anyway). The problem is that these are among the rarest dragons around, partly because of the current random distribution method working as it does, and this massively distorts the trading market at the upper end.

 

Before you say "just wait for the update to do something": we don't and apparently won't be able to know how many more people are being given prizes now. It's certainly something, but unless the numbers go up a lot or there's another way, the problems will continue. With enough time and newly distributed prizes, at least, the value of 2Gs (and therefore CBs) will drop - as long as their addition outpaces how fast things which are traded for them, like NDs and CB golds, get created, at least.

Edited by osmarks
Add my thoughts on the upscaling

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22 hours ago, Marrionetta said:

There are many mechanics on this game you can influence and can control. You can also choose to not enter the raffle any given month. Having this one particular mechanic left to chance doesn’t ruin the game. I’m sorry you can’t directly exert influence and obtain a specific generation of tinsel through force of will, but this is by design. Some mechanics are chance based. We love variety.

I'm pretty sure that "if you can't get it, don't even try" is the perfect solution to any problem.

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