Cave blockages - AP

[LadyLyzar]

My thoughts on the 3 visible eggs per person would be that they are still sorted by time.  However, if you have 3 eggs or 500, only the 3 lowest could be visible at any one time.  Hence, the AP would sort by time first - but if it detected that more than 3 of the lowest time eggs were bred by the same player, it would hide the extras until the first ones were picked up.

 

So, low-time eggs would still take precedence.  I would think they would still be picked up.  However it would prevent a flood of eggs bred by the same person all clogging the AP at the same time.  Abandoned CBs would be in the time queue only.

 

A wall could technically still appear if multiple breeders got together and massbred at the same time.  However, you could also call someone massbreeding all their dragons at once as creating a wall.

 

With this system your eggs would still be in the queue.  However, one player could not clog the whole thing and more options would be available to choose from at any one time.

 

Would some eggs be lost?  Possibly.  However as their timers get lower they will still get bumped to the front - just no more than 3 per person at a time.  I still think extreme low time will be picked up.

 

I see a lot of concerns about valuable lineages.  However, that is a player ascribed value.  For the game, a 2g prize is the same as a 20th gen messy one.  Hence it needs to apply to all players equally.

 

Hopefully I'm making sense.  I'm not always good at putting my thoughts into words.

[olympe]

@LadyLyzar You totally make sense to me. However, I wouldn't mind if CB eggs (either from the biomes or the market) got grouped together as belonging to "DC" so only 3 of those get shown at any one time.

[Fuzzbucket]

So punishing those who trawl the AP for CBs - for which NO-ONE can blame the wall builders. Thanks but no.

[olympe]

@Fuzzbucket I didn't say I'd want it, but that I'd be okay with it. Because I bet that's the next thing the wallers will bring up.

[BlueLatios]

I think the way both sides can be satisfied is that TJ removes the limitation of eggs under 3 days being uninfluencable. Both sides have good points but it still ends up in TJ whether the current AP stays the same or it becomes like the ones we're used to previously.

 

As for cave blocking, one of the possible solutions I want to forward would be that for every time someone views the AP, the eggs in there gain a view (especially a unique view) instead of just remaining in 1:1:1 stats. This way, even stubborn "wallmaking" eggs will hatch easily given enough time, but it will dissatisfy those who wants the AP time to be low.

[olympe]

@BlueLatios That could lead to things hatching in the AP - which, once again, would make it impossible to influence the hatchling. If it even stays in the AP instead of going straight to the wilderness. Does anyone know which one actually happens?

[BlueLatios]

53 minutes ago, olympe said:

If it even stays in the AP instead of going straight to the wilderness. Does anyone know which one actually happens?

Usually confirmed by a few people, they stay in AP. With the new AP tho, it seems that according to a user's report, some hatchlings didn't even show up and went on to grow in the wild once it ticks down to 4d.

And honestly, even though my suggestion may potentially lead to eggs hatching before people can pick them up, once again fron my observations, I see eggs with noticeable cracks or holes tend to get picked up faster compared to other eggs. I had thought of that downside, but it seems like it's not going to matter much.

[olympe]

There's still that time from 4 d to 3 d left - where the eggs can hatch during the window where influence is possible. But I guess it's still better than the status quo.

[_DeadPool_]

So take the near future as an example: Times are almost up to 5d+ again, which will mean eggs are no longer incuhatchable. Which, in turn, means I won't want to use the AP at all because I don't like grabbing eggs, incubating, and STILL waiting at least a day for stuff to hatch. Since the egg limit is lower than the scroll limit, if I pick up eggs there or from the cave, I will have to wait multiple days for stuff to hatch so I can catch more stuff. Or, try to hunt the caves for rares/unbreedables/metals which is no fun.

Walls and lowered AP times are part of what made the game fun for me. I could finally be actively doing stuff every day instead of sitting on my hands waiting for stuff to grow.

[olympe]

The AP rarely gets above 5 days these days, though. In order for you to have to wait "at least a day" for them to hatch after incubating, the eggs would have to be at 6d or more... I can tell you three times a year where this actually happens - at the beginning of the three holiday breeding seasons.

[cyradis4]

I haven't been active recently, so don't know if walls have gotten worse or not. However, I have had proof, again and again, that walls do help. They don't help an extreme amount, unless that person re-breeds the wall every week. If you re-breed every week, well..... *that* quickly has a more noticeable effect. 

 

As for idea 1 (eggs loose time every time they are abandoned by a new person), that I think would be a very good idea regardless of mass-breeding. There are often eggs bred that.... to be frank.... Are not wanted. So getting them to low time so they can be picked up faster is all to the good. 

 

I have no support for the other 2 suggestions. 

 

And dude. The AP is the *trash bin*. When we hunt the AP, we are effectively dumpster diving. Just as I often toss extra Gold and Silver eggs to the AP.... I should also be able to dump genuine trash there, and anything else I want to. That's the joy of the AP: You never know what you are going to get.... And its what other people have left for you. I feel that the game should not in any way control what others throw away. And if that means that one person clogs up the dumpster for a few days? Well... Its the trash bin. If you want something nicer? Try the Trade Market or the Cave. And if the only way you play is out of the AP? Well, part of how the AP functions is that the player base has chosen what to put there. 

 

I'll close out by saying that I don't find, and never have found, walls to be a problem. If you want to hunt the AP, and find a wall... Grab some eggs, ER them, and toss the hatchies back. Do that 5 an hour and it clears out super fast. And if the AP isn't at an incu-hatchable stage? Then come back tomorrow and it will be.

 

Cheers!
C4. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by cyradis4

[_DeadPool_]

16 minutes ago, olympe said:

The AP rarely gets above 5 days these days, though. In order for you to have to wait "at least a day" for them to hatch after incubating, the eggs would have to be at 6d or more... I can tell you three times a year where this actually happens - at the beginning of the three holiday breeding seasons. 

Because of walls. Im just saying the walls have benefit. Before walls were a thing, the AP was ALWAYS 5.5d plus

 

[Chaosdawn]

46 minutes ago, cyradis4 said:

And dude. The AP is the *trash bin*. When we hunt the AP, we are effectively dumpster diving.

 

Exactly my thought. Sometimes it's (subjectively) trash, sometimes you find treasures. I don't see a point to complaining about it. 

[JC_Denton]

The earlier suggestion about having eggs from several breeders appear in the wall is still the best suggestion so far, and it won't significantly change how the AP works, while (maybe) giving some variety to the eggs that appear there at any given time.

[Sazandora]

1 minute ago, Omgakitten said:

The earlier suggestion about having eggs from several breeders appear in the wall is still the best suggestion so far, and it won't significantly change how the AP works, while (maybe) giving some variety to the eggs that appear there at any given time.

Wholeheartedly agreed here.

[olympe]

@osean I'm not. I'm asking for a change to the AP. Everyone can still breed until their fingers bleed or their mouses start emitting smoke. Whichever. 

However, wouldn't more variety in the AP also improve the chances of finding a Prize?

 

16 minutes ago, _DeadPool_ said:

Asking for special accommodation for *your* playstyle. While asking for changes that would require others to - sometimes drastically - change theirs.

First of all, it doesn't stop you from doing anything on your scroll. Not at all.

Also, I'm not asking for the void as-is because it doesn't work properly. Sometimes, eggs/hatchlings are there - and sometimes, they just all go poof for prolonged periods of time. But if a breeder is assured that at least 3 of their eggs are shown - provided they're of the age group displayed - then they're not just gone, there is a chance to pick them up. We don't have that right now when a breeder's eggs all go MIA even though their timer is lower than anything else shown in the AP.

I'd even go so far as to propose a shuffle within one breeder's eggs so that, whenever one of their (for example) 4d 1h eggs gets picked up and gets thrown back, it shuffles to the end of the line of 4d 1h eggs. (The 4d 2h eggs would still be behind the 4d 1h eggs, obviously.)

 

15 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

Now that sounds malicious to me!

Don't use the m-word! People will get up in pitchforks and torches because they feel called out and quote and re-quote you out of context...  

 

58 minutes ago, platedlizard said:

I love dumpster diving in the AP, I love breeding trash, and one day I'm going to roll out my army of extremely inbred dragons and flood the AP with some of the grossest nightmarish lineages this site has seen, and no one can stop me.

And that's exactly why a change would be a good thing. It gives people a better chance at avoiding pettiness. More variety means more options for everyone. If someone wants to take in your "grossest nightmarish lineages" for freezing fodder or whatever, they can do so. If they want to look at other stuff, they can do so. If they prefer to grab the blocker someone bred 1000 of, they can do so. And if they prefer to trawl though what other people bred, they can do so. Without having to hatch x eggs they don't want. Without having to wait x hours. More variety means more options. And all your precious eggs will be displayed once the older ones have been picked up.

[_DeadPool_]

But if we used the method described, limiting the eggs shown to 3-5 per breeder, that means there will be problems with SAkin for example. If a spriter breeds a clutch of holiday eggs, theyre all the same time. This means that when their time goes down, they will all be shown together. This gives an unfair advantage to anyone who is online at the time of their drop, as opposed to people having to shuffle through several rows of eggs of all the same time. SAltkins already go incredibly fast, and I'd really rather not have to fight people that are all looking in the same place because all eggs end up in the same place (first few of row, last few of row, whatever). It's hard enough right now.

 

This was suggested by osean, but thought I'd put it here: I think it'd be a better option to have the last row or two be other stuff than what's in a "wall". Keep sorting otherwise the same. Because if you add more code to make the AP sort more complicated than just "lowest time", there are bigger chances for errors/glitches/bugs, and those can cause serious issues.

Edited August 4, 2019 by _DeadPool_

[osean]

32 minutes ago, olympe said:

@osean I'm not. I'm asking for a change to the AP. Everyone can still breed until their fingers bleed or their mouses start emitting smoke. Whichever. 

However, wouldn't more variety in the AP also improve the chances of finding a Prize?

Having variety in the AP isn’t going to help my chances finding prizes in the ap. The only thing that would do that is if more people bred them to the AP. Why do you think I took matters into my own hands and started planning prize mass breeds?

 

if there must be a change to the AP I would much rather have the last line or two be different eggs if the rest are a one breed wall. It seems like a fair compromise to both sides. 

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

And that's exactly why a change would be a good thing. It gives people a better chance at avoiding pettiness. More variety means more options for everyone. If someone wants to take in your "grossest nightmarish lineages" for freezing fodder or whatever, they can do so. If they want to look at other stuff, they can do so. If they prefer to grab the blocker someone bred 1000 of, they can do so. And if they prefer to trawl though what other people bred, they can do so. Without having to hatch x eggs they don't want. Without having to wait x hours. More variety means more options. And all your precious eggs will be displayed once the older ones have been picked up.

 

I definitely agree with this! Accommodating as many playstyles as possible would be a great thing in my eyes and surely should be the aim in a game that is so community-based!

 

(Ngl, I think showing more than just 30 eggs at a time would be a really good move too, but that might just be me...)

[_DeadPool_]

1 minute ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

I definitely agree with this! Accommodating as many playstyles as possible would be a great thing in my eyes and surely should be the aim in a game that is so community-based!

 

(Ngl, I think showing more than just 30 eggs at a time would be a really good move too, but that might just be me...)

Oh man id love love love to see more than 30 eggs at a time

 

[olympe]

17 minutes ago, _DeadPool_ said:

Oh man id love love love to see more than 30 eggs at a time

While I'd love that, too, it would disadvantage players playing exclusively on mobile. (I'm not one of them, but it's worth bringing up anyway.)

 

55 minutes ago, osean said:

if there must be a change to the AP I would much rather have the last line or two be different eggs if the rest are a one breed wall. It seems like a fair compromise to both sides. 

That, too, is something that has come up in regard to holiday walls - and would work for other walls just as well. Also, feel free to look at my prizes and ask for any of them to be bred. (I use legacy breed sort, so they should be pretty easy to find.

 

1 hour ago, _DeadPool_ said:

But if we used the method described, limiting the eggs shown to 3-5 per breeder, that means there will be problems with SAkin for example. If a spriter breeds a clutch of holiday eggs, theyre all the same time. This means that when their time goes down, they will all be shown together. This gives an unfair advantage to anyone who is online at the time of their drop, as opposed to people having to shuffle through several rows of eggs of all the same time. SAltkins already go incredibly fast, and I'd really rather not have to fight people that are all looking in the same place because all eggs end up in the same place (first few of row, last few of row, whatever). It's hard enough right now.

Uhm? But if some spriter breeds their prizes, don't their eggs get shown together right now? And wouldn't places where stuff is shown be shuffled anyway because that's what always happens in the AP?

[_DeadPool_]

23 minutes ago, olympe said:



Uhm? But if some spriter breeds their prizes, don't their eggs get shown together right now? And wouldn't places where stuff is shown be shuffled anyway because that's what always happens in the AP? 

 

At least with holiday SAltkins, i know they often get shuffled together with tons of other eggs of the same breed, making it slightly harder for someone to just ninja them out of the ap. I just worry that if the 3-5 eggs per breeder thing is used, they will end up being like...the first 3-5 in the AP every time because of how it sorts and the fact that the eggs are bred as a clutch. Im not a skilled coder by any means, but with my limited coding experience i've seen sorting stuff go terribly awry depending on what language being used and how the computer interprets the code.

[osean]

39 minutes ago, olympe said:

While I'd love that, too, it would disadvantage players playing exclusively on mobile. (I'm not one of them, but it's worth bringing up anyway.)

 

That, too, is something that has come up in regard to holiday walls - and would work for other walls just as well. Also, feel free to look at my prizes and ask for any of them to be bred. (I use legacy breed sort, so they should be pretty easy to find.

 

Uhm? But if some spriter breeds their prizes, don't their eggs get shown together right now? And wouldn't places where stuff is shown be shuffled anyway because that's what always happens in the AP?

Thank you!  I will take you up on that offer once I unlock. I am glad that you agree that a couple of lines of other stuff is a fair compromise to both sides and could work to the benefit of everyone. 

[cyradis4]

Having DC change how eggs are presented changes the nature of the AP: it goes from a dumping ground where anything goes into something that is expected to be "nice". And with any such change, there are consequences. The first is the higher time in the AP.... which I don't think anyone actually wants. I remember back when TJ was experimenting with ways to deal with mass-breeding. That had to be what, 5 years ago? Years ago at least. It.... wasn't pretty. Actually, I think it was the "show 1 egg from a breeder" deal. I think there was another, too. It didn't end well. 

 

I also remember when the AP blocked the Biomes. I remember when there was only 1 Cave, and just 3 eggs. I also remember one new release that went wrong..... and we had the same 3 breeds of eggs in the Biomes for over a month. I remember the huge amount of screaming people did because of how Teleport would destroy the game (of course, it did nothing of the sort). 

 

Change can be good or bad, but all the consequences must be discussed first. And while I haven't read the whole thread..... the last few pages certainly seem to be one side saying "this is what happens if you change this", and the other ignoring those very real consequences. 

 

So, lets see "your side" discuss how to deal with the consequences, shall we? Lets start with the much higher time AP.... which means that there won't be much egg turnover. So you'll still be looking at the exact same eggs for hours at a time. How is this any different from the time during a wall? And it doesn't have the benefit of what happens when the wall clears: new, low time eggs that for a while turn over quite fast. 

 

CHeers!
C4. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by LadyLyzar
First part doesn't fit with edited thread

[DarkEternity]

This thread was a suggestion about preventing AP walling but I think that the change has already been made by TJ and that's the void. The void behaves exactly like the 3rd suggestion on the second post on the first page of this thread. 

 

I think the change was made on the day the AP was apparently weird and out of order  and later the timing order got adjusted to make the AP seem a lot more normal (although it will still silently remove eggs). There was also a thing that people could do by toggling accepting aid to determine if an egg was still in the AP and that got fixed quickly which makes me think that the AP is functioning as intended.

 

No walls have appeared since the change was made despite numerous people saying they bred enough to make a wall. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by DarkEternity