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Cave blockages - AP

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Or we could just up scroll egg/growing limit and split those limits so eggs don't count toward the growing limit  :D

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2 hours ago, LadyLyzar said:

Even though it sounds cliché, please remember to attack the topic and not each other.

 

My personal $0.02 - I do not think any one player should be able to significantly change the composition of the AP.  I think there should be  a maximum number of AP eggs per user visible, queued by the time they have left.  Also, IMO it should show at least a few different breeds at all times regardless of composition (unless less than that number of unique breeds are present - unlikely.)

 

As for mass breeding, I think it's fine as there are no restrictions on how to play.  Breed as much as you want.  That being said, I don't like the idea of sharply restricting other players who aren't looking for that specific breed in the AP.

 

That's just me, though.

 

I very much support that idea. It isn't biased and does not put random limits on any breeders, it's changing the AP itself instead of punishing players. (Pretty much what I've been suggesting all along....)

 

 

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As long as breeders aren't restricted and there's no random invisible void where eggs are dipping into uninfluencable range like we just had with that glitch, I'm good.

 

Do feel as if three per person is a tad low, however.

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I do not.  The AP as it is now only displays 30 eggs.  Considering how many players we have, that should be more than sufficient.

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Playing catch and release with the walls leads to easy hatchies in the AP for newbies or folks who are egg locked. 

 

And again, walls keep the AP incuhatchable. A 6 Day AP would suck. What's the point lmao 

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Gentle redirect - the topic of this thread is changing how the AP handles walls, not on the pros and cons of them.

 

Try coming up with some ideas.

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9 hours ago, LadyLyzar said:

I do not.  The AP as it is now only displays 30 eggs.  Considering how many players we have, that should be more than sufficient.

 

Honestly, yeah.
 

Before I had a grasp of this game, I used to primarily AP hunt because I didn't like not being able to see the dragons. Now, however, I more-or-less play the game as if the AP doesn't exist, as most of it is filled with  - no offence to anyone - cruddily-lineaged commons. My personal motive on this website is to collect CB stuff - trading and AP hunting doesn't really interest me because I only really care about CBs. The only time I use the AP is to play a sort of bingo like others have mentioned - see if i can spot a super rare breed, which I'll happily snag because a decently-lineaged Silver is better than none at all, imo!

 

That being said, AP walls annoy me... So. Much. Honestly, I'd much rather have a CB common than a 16h gen one that happened to descend from a Gold somewhere down the line, because that's my play style. When one person happens to breed their rare stuff at the same time someone happens to spam the breed button on their hundreds of dragons, it's a bit of a bummer knowing that some actually cool stuff is just buried under a pile of the same dirt-common cave blockers.

 

Don't mean to be rude with any of my terminology here. It's just a subject that's bugged me for a long time - and the issue that actually turned me away from ever AP hunting. Seems like whenever I do chance upon the AP, it's a wall. I very much agree that a limit on AP dumping should be placed, if only to give others a chance if anything.

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So, on the subject of "AP dumping" or one suggestion I've seen tossed around, which is to limit the number of eggs by one breeder that are visible at one time - first off, that was tried a few years ago and people hated it then.

 

Let us for a moment go hypothetical. Suppose I breed all my Coppers to the AP, and they most all of them produce an egg. You're saying, those who want to limit how many eggs per breeder show, or how many eggs each breeder is allowed to abandon per time frame, that you'd be happy not to be able to see all the Coppers, or that I'd not be able to even breed all my Coppers at once, once whatever arbitrary limit is reached. And believe me, if I bred all my Coppers and they all produced eggs, I would wall the AP. You'd be perfectly happy not having access to that Copper Wall of eggs because one breeder produced "too many" eggs. Or apply that same hypothetical scenario to Prize dragons. I could create a decent wall with those too, if they all produced eggs when bred. (and they possibly could as Prizes breed more eggs than Coppers) 

 

Or suppose it's Halloween and I'm breeding ALL my Shadow Walker alts to the AP. Are you saying you'd be happy if only 3 at a time of my Saltkin showed at a time, knowing that all the rest are losing time as we speak? Or saying I can only abandon X number at a time to the AP, thereby limiting how many I breed in one go? Which likely would mean I wouldn't breed the whole slate of them because time.

 

What this suggestion actually looks like to me is that "I don't like nocturnes/mints/other super common - and don't want people to be able to fill the AP with those."

 

You can't limit how many of one breed shows unless you apply that same standard to ALL breeds. You can't limit how many of any one breeder's eggs show unless it applies across all situations and all breeders.  You may say yes, you're perfectly happy with that scenario, and I'm fine with you saying that, but would remain a little skeptical how many actually would want that applied, based on the requests I normally get for Saltkin.

 

My actual viewpoint here is that despite the fact that there are times for everyone where what's in the AP doesn't appeal to them it's actually set up very fairly and should be left alone.

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28 minutes ago, Fiona said:

My actual viewpoint here is that despite the fact that there are times for everyone where what's in the AP doesn't appeal to them it's actually set up very fairly and should be left alone.

 

Snipped, but gently applauds the whole post :)

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58 minutes ago, Fiona said:

So, on the subject of "AP dumping" or one suggestion I've seen tossed around, which is to limit the number of eggs by one breeder that are visible at one time - first off, that was tried a few years ago and people hated it then.

When was that? I honestly don't remember. And please don't quote more than 4 years ago, because the player base isn't nearly the same any more. When an in-game market was proposed for the first time (way be before the "trader's canyon" thread), people actually hated it. Several years down the line, not so much.

 

1 hour ago, Fiona said:

Let us for a moment go hypothetical. Suppose I breed all my Coppers to the AP, and they most all of them produce an egg. You're saying, those who want to limit how many eggs per breeder show, or how many eggs each breeder is allowed to abandon per time frame, that you'd be happy not to be able to see all the Coppers, or that I'd not be able to even breed all my Coppers at once, once whatever arbitrary limit is reached. And believe me, if I bred all my Coppers and they all produced eggs, I would wall the AP. You'd be perfectly happy not having access to that Copper Wall of eggs because one breeder produced "too many" eggs. Or apply that same hypothetical scenario to Prize dragons. I could create a decent wall with those too, if they all produced eggs when bred. (and they possibly could as Prizes breed more eggs than Coppers) 

I'm totally fine with the limit of only showing a limited number of eggs from one breeder at a time. Yes, I'd be fine with that even if you bred coppers or SA-kin. Because they'd be picked up quickly, the community would have access to all of them in short order, even if only 3 of them are displayed at any one time. That 1000 eggs strong blocker wall, however, would be reduced to 3 eggs, too. Since these eggs are not very likely to be picked up quickly, their timer will go down while still allowing players to grab what's behind these three eggs at a higher time left. You get to breed and dump as much as you want. Win #1. People still get to collect something else but your preferred blocker. Win #2. The blockers will go down in time, since only 3 of them will be available at any given time, so the time-lowering mechanics still work. Win #3. If you want to do so, you might have a chance to grab back more than one set of 8 eggs from your own breedings because they stay there longer. Win #4. And, last but not least, if people actually pick up your eggs, you'll still be able to influence the ratios - a tentative win #5. Unless, of course, the purpose of creating walls isn't any of these 5 things, but to control what other people can grab in the AP - which is very much enforcing a certain play style (my eggs or no AP for you) among other players.

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, olympe said:

The blockers will go down in time, since only 3 of them will be available at any given time, so the time-lowering mechanics still work. Win #3.

Yes, but for the blocker breed only. Which is not generally the idea when people are trying to drive down AP times. The goal is to get the whole AP down to times that are incuhatchable. So I would say not a win.

Edited by purplehaze

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34 minutes ago, olympe said:

I'm totally fine with the limit of only showing a limited number of eggs from one breeder at a time. Yes, I'd be fine with that even if you bred coppers or SA-kin. Because they'd be picked up quickly, the community would have access to all of them in short order, even if only 3 of them are displayed at any one time. That 1000 eggs strong blocker wall, however, would be reduced to 3 eggs, too. Since these eggs are not very likely to be picked up quickly, their timer will go down while still allowing players to grab what's behind these three eggs at a higher time left. You get to breed and dump as much as you want. Win #1. People still get to collect something else but your preferred blocker. Win #2. The blockers will go down in time, since only 3 of them will be available at any given time, so the time-lowering mechanics still work. Win #3. If you want to do so, you might have a chance to grab back more than one set of 8 eggs from your own breedings because they stay there longer. Win #4. And, last but not least, if people actually pick up your eggs, you'll still be able to influence the ratios - a tentative win #5. Unless, of course, the purpose of creating walls isn't any of these 5 things, but to control what other people can grab in the AP - which is very much enforcing a certain play style (my eggs or no AP for you) among other players.

 

Summed up my thoughts on the matter exactly!

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People are not forced to take care of my eggs, they can ignore them as no one's holding them at gunpoint and telling them to keep the things until they hatch and grow up or else. But I digress.

 

Honestly the AP is just fine as is, I don't see a burning need to really change anything about it, and I certainly will never support any unnecessary limitations on breeders. I do like the idea of limiting how many eggs bred by one person are shown, though. Can't offer any new ideas here because I can't come up with any that haven't been suggested here already.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, purplehaze said:

Yes, but for the blocker breed only. Which is not generally the idea when people are trying to drive down AP times. The goal is to get the whole AP down to times that are incuhatchable. So I would say not a win.

So? Are you actually saying that blocking the AP for others with just one breed they don't want is okay, but giving you the option to pick up the very same blockers as extremely low-time eggs isn't because that's not what you want ? 

Edited by olympe

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Posted (edited)

No, you are giving me words I didn't say. I was just saying what I said -- people generally breed walls in an attempt to drive down AP times on all eggs. So you calling it a win when only one egg gets lower in time is really not so, as it is not a win for the people who want that. And I did not mention at all if that was what I personally wanted!

 

I can actually see both side of this argument, but it seems that it will be hard to come up with any solution that suits everyone. And if the recent mess in the AP was an attempt by TJ to "fix" the AP it did not succeed and only made matters much worse.

Edited by purplehaze

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I mean what Olympe summarised before sounds like a good idea to me.

 

Breeders are not limited whatsoever on what they can breed. They can AP-breed 200 eggs in an hour, no one is stopping them. But only 3 (per Lyz’s suggestion) would actually show up in the AP. With only 30 spaces, that makes things a lot fairer for all those others who breed in order to share their stuff who otherwise wouldn’t be seen under the wall.

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34 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

No, you are giving me words I didn't say. I was just saying what I said -- people generally breed walls in an attempt to drive down AP times on all eggs. So you calling it a win when only one egg gets lower in time is really not so, as it is not a win for the people who want that. And I did not mention at all if that was what I personally wanted!

 

I can actually see both side of this argument, but it seems that it will be hard to come up with any solution that suits everyone. And if the recent mess in the AP was an attempt by TJ to "fix" the AP it did not succeed and only made matters much worse.

First of all, it wouldn't be just one egg - but all the wall eggs that are hidden behind the three that are actually displayed. So, if you pick up one of the three wall eggs, there'll still be three wall eggs visible, and at a low time. You'd still get your low-time eggs. Only with less variety - which is what, under the current system, gets dealt to everyone who wants to use the AP. Take this or nothing at all so we can have lots of low-time eggs of various breeds.

 

Somehow, this feels like a double standard to me.

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46 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

No, you are giving me words I didn't say. I was just saying what I said -- people generally breed walls in an attempt to drive down AP times on all eggs. So you calling it a win when only one egg gets lower in time is really not so, as it is not a win for the people who want that. And I did not mention at all if that was what I personally wanted!

 

I can actually see both side of this argument, but it seems that it will be hard to come up with any solution that suits everyone. And if the recent mess in the AP was an attempt by TJ to "fix" the AP it did not succeed and only made matters much worse.

 

This, if it was indeed an attempt. It was the worstest AP I have ever seen, and so many really pretty eggs lost for ever.

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People people, listen. I don't know why this subject takes so long to come to a conclusion but let me remind you what AP is. AP is Abandoned Page and is "supposed" to work like how it did: Showing the eggs which were abandoned. Everyone knew what AP was and decided to be AP hunters taking things like these into account.

 

Yes, surely you enjoy AP in some specific way (with loads of different eggs) but that is not what it is and how it is supposed to be. AP has always been showing what is abandoned and was really simple and "logical" considering what it is. Look at it in this way: I and many many others enjoy CB Golds, too, that doesn't mean the rules should be bent for us and CB Golds should suddenly made Commons. Exact same thing is applicable to AP hunters. Just because AP hunters enjoy variety the AP shouldn't become something else from what it is supposed to be. That makes little sense both lorewise and mechanicwise.

 

Now, I see some people defending a malfunction in the AP and I really do not know how I should react. Yes, because of the bug we can acquire low time and diverse eggs. If there was a bug in the cave which gave us 4 days eggs instead of 7 days, playerbase again would be all crazy for how good it is to have so many love time CBs. Would that mean the malfunction should stay? No.

 

Simply put, wanting something that has restrictions but works in a very logical way change to smt that is literally a malfunction just sounds funny and laughable to me.

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Only 3 eggs from one breeder?

 

So how about them Thuweds....

 

We don't need the void. We need some perspective. Featherywings articulated it well. 

 

You don't go to a Flea Market and get angry that the stuff there is all used, and complain when you can't find a priceless item in a bargain bin. Same applies to the AP. 

 

The void did significantly more harm than good, and TJ has stated it was not his intention. It isn't what we need, and it isn't what he wants for the site either judging by the help thread. 

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57 minutes ago, osean said:

I disagree with you. The void made AP hunting worse and not better. One example of that was the Terrafreaky eggs. Terrafreaky usually mass breeds pretty checkers and with them going so redicously low timed that they were not influenceable they were useless to me and everyone else who makes pretty checkers. 

Even if the Void were to stay it wouldn’t guarantee that walls couldn’t form. All you would need is 10 people breeding their 1000 mints to the AP at the same time. 

Three eggs per breeder at a time in the ap seems way to extreme and would cause more damage then help in my opinion. A better solution would be to have the bottom row be other stuff when there is a one breed wall. 

 

This. There were some lovely eggs came up that I precogged and threw back because they couldn't be continued. Such a waste

 

34 minutes ago, FeatheryWings said:

People people, listen. I don't know why this subject takes so long to come to a conclusion but let me remind you what AP is. AP is Abandoned Page and is "supposed" to work like how it did: Showing the eggs which were abandoned. Everyone knew what AP was and decided to be AP hunters taking things like these into account.

 

Yes, surely you enjoy AP in some specific way (with loads of different eggs) but that is not what it is and how it is supposed to be. AP has always been showing what is abandoned and was really simple and "logical" considering what it is. Look at it in this way: I and many many others enjoy CB Golds, too, that doesn't mean the rules should be bent for us and CB Golds should suddenly made Commons. Exact same thing is applicable to AP hunters. Just because AP hunters enjoy variety the AP shouldn't become something else from what it is supposed to be. That makes little sense both lorewise and mechanicwise.

 

Now, I see some people defending a malfunction in the AP and I really do not know how I should react. Yes, because of the bug we can acquire low time and diverse eggs. If there was a bug in the cave which gave us 4 days eggs instead of 7 days, playerbase again would be all crazy for how good it is to have so many love time CBs. Would that mean the malfunction should stay? No.

 

Simply put, wanting something that has restrictions but works in a very logical way change to smt that is literally a malfunction just sounds funny and laughable to me.

 

Right on.

 

23 minutes ago, BrazenChase said:

Only 3 eggs from one breeder?

 

So how about them Thuweds....

 

We don't need the void. We need some perspective. Featherywings articulated it well. 

 

You don't go to a Flea Market and get angry that the stuff there is all used, and complain when you can't find a priceless item in a bargain bin. Same applies to the AP. 

 

The void did significantly more harm than good, and TJ has stated it was not his intention. It isn't what we need, and it isn't what he wants for the site either judging by the help thread. 

 

Can we calm down and get back to playing ? It seems OK at the moment.

 

Or I will make a white wall.....

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I still advocate for a limit on how many eggs from a particular user are visible at a time. If 3 is deemed extreme, then 5 - whatever.

 

People seem to be thinking that this  would physically restrict players from breeding, but it wouldn’t in the slightest. Players could breed a thousand Mints and they would all still technically be in the AP, just not all visible at once in a way that makes it somewhat unfair for other breeders who want their stuff shown too. Those who are hunting other breeds than what is walled would have a chance to do so, and it would be much less of an inconvenience for a lot of people. In no way is this advocating for “breeders can only breed three things at a time!”, just only three showing up. 

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2 hours ago, animatedrose said:

"Because it allows people more freedom."

 

No, it allows only the people you decide to have more freedom, have more freedom. The ones not bringing certain "trash" to the dump that is the AP. You're asking to regulate who can use the AP for what and punishing those who use it for something else you deem "malicious" just because you don't like it. Next you'll see users demanding all the messies get dumped into the void because they're "gross and unusable". Then certain breeding style eggs, like inbreds or deadlines. I can see the list of things people would love to see poof into a void so they and everybody else on DC never sees them...but those things they condemn may be things someone else likes.

So where is your freedom infringed on if only 3 or 5 eggs of yours show at any given time? You can still breed and abandon as many eggs as you want. You can still do everything you want to do on your scroll - and your scroll only. Which is as it should be. The only freedom you lose is the freedom to dictate what others are able to catch. What other people can show in the AP - which is pretty much nothing if the AP is walled, for as long as the wall is there. You merely lose the freedom to infringe on the freedom of others. If there's someone who likes that messy/inbred/deadline/blocker common you graced the AP with, they will surely take it? After all, if your eggs are supposed to be so great that people will surely want to pick them up, they'll still do so - especially if their timer has gone down considerably. 

 

2 hours ago, animatedrose said:

But who cares about them right? Only your wants matter. Everyone else is just malicious because they don't agree and they need punishing to teach them a lesson.

Who ever said that? And how are you getting punished? You can still do everything you did - save for playing the dictator of the AP. Oh, so you're denoted to a regular player with no special, site-wide powers. Oops. How awful!  What did you even do before being able to create walls? Actually play as a regular player with no special, site-wide powers? (Plus, how many more times do I have to state I do not consider walls malicious, as it doesn't quite match the definition? Does anybody read here instead of just shouting at the common enemy?)

 

2 hours ago, FeatheryWings said:

Yes, surely you enjoy AP in some specific way (with loads of different eggs) but that is not what it is and how it is supposed to be. AP has always been showing what is abandoned and was really simple and "logical" considering what it is. Look at it in this way: I and many many others enjoy CB Golds, too, that doesn't mean the rules should be bent for us and CB Golds should suddenly made Commons. Exact same thing is applicable to AP hunters. Just because AP hunters enjoy variety the AP shouldn't become something else from what it is supposed to be. That makes little sense both lorewise and mechanicwise.

What also needs to be mentioned is that the AP was created to work the way it does (save for abolishing cave-blocking and not adding an hour to abandoned eggs any more and stop AP-trading from happening...) a long, long time ago. A time when only a few people had scrolls with dragons numbering in the 4 digits - and the lower ones at that. When AP walls hadn't really been invented. Back then, the AP served as a secondary (or tertiary?) way to get eggs, because the cave was often empty (or so I was told, I haven't been here back then), and breeding or finding stuff in the AP were the only alternatives. It certainly wasn't created so someone could create walls of their favorite breed, or to allow trading (which actually was a thing because teleport yet had to be implemented), or to give established players control over a large part of the game for everyone for hours/days on end. DC has always had a policy of letting everyone do their own thing, of not dictating play styles - as there is no one, true way. But some people seem to take it upon themselves to dictate one way - and take the AP hostage to get their will.

 

2 hours ago, BrazenChase said:

Only 3 eggs from one breeder?

 

So how about them Thuweds....

 

We don't need the void. We need some perspective. Featherywings articulated it well. 

 

You don't go to a Flea Market and get angry that the stuff there is all used, and complain when you can't find a priceless item in a bargain bin. Same applies to the AP. 

 

The void did significantly more harm than good, and TJ has stated it was not his intention. It isn't what we need, and it isn't what he wants for the site either judging by the help thread. 

 

So how about them Thuweds? They'll probably get picked up quickly because people actually find them desirable. And if not, they'll go poof, which is highly unlikely.

When I go to a Flea Market, I do so because I look for specific things (like used toys, used console games, old books or whatever strikes my fancy). If I don't find anything at the various stands, that's fine, too. But it would annoy me to no end if there was only one stand taking up the whole site that offers nothing but used (and probably dirty) underwear.

While the void did strike in a surprise attack, I'm sure people could and would adapt - like spacing out their breeding sprees over several days instead of doing all of their breeding on the same day. And if they have very little time to play DC, they won't go on hour-long breeding sprees anyway.

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2 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

I still advocate for a limit on how many eggs from a particular user are visible at a time. If 3 is deemed extreme, then 5 - whatever.

 

People seem to be thinking that this  would physically restrict players from breeding, but it wouldn’t in the slightest. Players could breed a thousand Mints and they would all still technically be in the AP, just not all visible at once in a way that makes it somewhat unfair for other breeders who want their stuff shown too. Those who are hunting other breeds than what is walled would have a chance to do so, and it would be much less of an inconvenience for a lot of people. In no way is this advocating for “breeders can only breed three things at a time!”, just only three showing up. 

 

So you just get a different void with lovely checkers like those up there earlier, dying because we have to see all the other eggs - probably junk, as most are - in front of them. And we lose the beneficial effects of walls - changing the ratios, lowering time for everything else...

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Well, the wall's timer will still go down, and the ratios also get affected if said wall hiding behind 3 eggs gets picked up. Plus, there's the work-around of spacing out your breeding sprees. Instead of 700 in one go, just breed 100 every day. Considering that eggs in the AP shuffle to some extent, this could easily be alleviated by allowing the eggs of one user to shuffle, so it's different eggs showing every minute - as long as their timers show the same time.

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