Cave blockages - AP

[Keileon]

Walls are something that I see as inherent to the game and how it works. Constricting anyone's ability to breed what they want and ANYTHING that's going to result in egg death is and always will be a hard no from me and, I expect, from TJ and most of the player base.

 

The ONLY solution in this thread-- or that I've seen in any other thread-- that seems favorable and would work is the idea of eggs losing time, and even then that HAS to be capped at 12-24 hours lost. Probably locking the egg out of Incubate in the meantime. But when the AP is usually ER anyway, that solution would make no difference; you can't make a 3d23h egg hatch faster by incubating it to 2d23h, because it's based on egg AGE, not time left. The losing time solution would literally only be effective on an AP above 4 days.

[Fuzzbucket]

4 minutes ago, Keileon said:

Walls are something that I see as inherent to the game and how it works. Constricting anyone's ability to breed what they want and ANYTHING that's going to result in egg death is and always will be a hard no from me and, I expect, from TJ and most of the player base.

 

The ONLY solution in this thread-- or that I've seen in any other thread-- that seems favorable and would work is the idea of eggs losing time, and even then that HAS to be capped at 12-24 hours lost. Probably locking the egg out of Incubate in the meantime. But when the AP is usually ER anyway, that solution would make no difference; you can't make a 3d23h egg hatch faster by incubating it to 2d23h, because it's based on egg AGE, not time left. The losing time solution would literally only be effective on an AP above 4 days.

 

Actually I have no doubt TJ could if he liked....

[Keileon]

Okay sure, but I'm talking about player-side. Eggs Around the World had a system in place that was affected by time left, but since it had the plug pulled on it I don't think any other hatchery works like that anymore.

[osmarks]

It probably would complicate the internals and be rather confusing, but TJ09 could make time loss via the suggested mechanism here make eggs easier to hatch.

[Stormcaller]

6 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

While I understand that some people only like certain pretty low-gen lineages, that's not true for everyone. People shouldn't be scolded for breeding lineages *you* don't personally like, the very fact that the eggs get picked up eventually means that some people do like them and want them. Personally I'd much rather see 'willie nilly' lineages then boring 2nd-gen pbs! People play this game different ways and it's perfectly ok to do so. Please know that just because you don't personally like something that doesn't mean no one does.

I agree that there is even a place for some of the gigantic, mismatched, and even inbred eggs that are sometimes bred, but it's not on my scroll.   Please don't forget that some people have the time and patience to hunt for cave borns in the AP and when it is swamped with a mass breeding the possibilities for finding any of them almost completely disappears.

[osmarks]

2 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

I agree that there is even a place for some of the gigantic, mismatched, and even inbred eggs that are sometimes bred, but it's not on my scroll.   Please don't forget that some people have the time and patience to hunt for cave borns in the AP and when it is swamped with a mass breeding the possibilities for finding any of them almost completely disappears.

If you don't want them, don't pick them up. The AP is not guaranteed to have anything you actually want in it.

[Stormcaller]

If you know a way to tell if an egg is going to be a mutt without actually picking it up, please share that information with the rest of us.

 

Please note that the point of my post was that there should be opportunities to find a variety of different eggs, not guarantees of finding them.

[osmarks]

2 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

If you know a way to tell if an egg is going to be a mutt without actually picking it up, please share that information with the rest of us.

Not sure what you mean by "mutt", but I actually do know a way you can check the lineage without picking it up, if slowly. Right-click the egg, choose copy link location or your browser's equivalent in the context menu, open a new tab, paste that into the URL bar, and replace abandoned with lineage.

 

6 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

Please note that the point of my post was that there should be opportunities to find a variety of different eggs, not guarantees of finding them.

 

Well, you have opportunities to find things now, it's just that not everything is available all the time. You seem to want a guarantee that they will be available.

[osean]

Yes walls of things you don’t collect can be annoying but I enjoy the aftermath of a good massbreed with lower timed eggs in the ap. I just use the time that the walls are going strong to collect what I like for my own armies. As someone who plans to mass breed her prizes I am not going to say anything about someone doing the same with what they love. 

[Ruffledfeathers]

Mass breeds are better to me when they make pretty things, but not random and or extremely long lineages as these just arent desirable to me. I do like the low times though, and some people like these lines. 

 

I have seen some of the eggs I breed just wind up dead, out of time, Idk if people picked them up and forgot over and over or if they just arent getting past random walls but it is upsetting either way, especially when its something I wanted people to enjoy. If people are picking up and forgetting them, they always have no scroll link and happens very frequently; some were 2G from a holiday. I wish I knew if it was bad luck or what  

 

I cant really blame walls specifically tho. While they do get tiring, they do lower time which is good, it makes eggs more desirable. 

[The Dragoness]

I definitely understand the frustration that AP walls can bring, but there's really no way to limit the breeding/abandoning of those eggs without someone's play style being affected. What I would like to see is an option to grey out undesirable eggs so they disappear on your screen, similar to the suggestion for picking up the same AP egg over and over (will link if I find it). Everyone else would see a normal AP page, so I can't think of any negative effects. Massbreeders can toss as many eggs as they want to the AP and the hunters can just choose to avoid those eggs if they wish. The eggs would only die if no one wants them, which would happen if people tossed them back or didn't click them in the first place without the greying out option anyway. 

[Keileon]

24 minutes ago, Ruffledfeathers said:

I have seen some of the eggs I breed just wind up dead, out of time, Idk if people picked them up and forgot over and over or if they just arent getting past random walls but it is upsetting either way, especially when its something I wanted people to enjoy. If people are picking up and forgetting them, they always have no scroll link and happens very frequently; some were 2G from a holiday. I wish I knew if it was bad luck or what

With the SOLE exception of holiday walls, lowest-time eggs always show up first and it's not possible for an egg to die behind a higher-timed wall. Bad luck, I'm afraid!

[purplehaze]

16 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

I definitely understand the frustration that AP walls can bring, but there's really no way to limit the breeding/abandoning of those eggs without someone's play style being affected. What I would like to see is an option to grey out undesirable eggs so they disappear on your screen, similar to the suggestion for picking up the same AP egg over and over (will link if I find it). Everyone else would see a normal AP page, so I can't think of any negative effects. Massbreeders can toss as many eggs as they want to the AP and the hunters can just choose to avoid those eggs if they wish. The eggs would only die if no one wants them, which would happen if people tossed them back or didn't click them in the first place without the greying out option anyway. 

But when we suggested that for the problem of picking up the same AP egg over and over, TJ said that it couldn't be done.

[Fuzzbucket]

40 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

I definitely understand the frustration that AP walls can bring, but there's really no way to limit the breeding/abandoning of those eggs without someone's play style being affected. What I would like to see is an option to grey out undesirable eggs so they disappear on your screen, similar to the suggestion for picking up the same AP egg over and over (will link if I find it). Everyone else would see a normal AP page, so I can't think of any negative effects. Massbreeders can toss as many eggs as they want to the AP and the hunters can just choose to avoid those eggs if they wish. The eggs would only die if no one wants them, which would happen if people tossed them back or didn't click them in the first place without the greying out option anyway. 

 

TJ said it is never going to happen that any of us will see a different version of the AP.

 

21 minutes ago, Keileon said:

With the SOLE exception of holiday walls, lowest-time eggs always show up first and it's not possible for an egg to die behind a higher-timed wall. Bad luck, I'm afraid!

 

Exactly.

 

Someone posted - ages ago - that we should see the AP as what it is - a massive garbage dump for the stuff players don't want to keep - for whatever reason, in which we might find the occasional treasure. That's the size of it. Garbage pickers IRL go through garbage to find things worth keeping - so do we who haunt the AP. The AP was never set up as someone's second best jewellery box. It's SUPPOSED to be primarily full of junk. And it is. Deal with that. I just had a quick trawl. It's very varied - and there is not one single egg in there I would have kept. Just because they are all different breeds today doesn't make them ever so lovely  I did actually spot some beautiful nocturnes in that wall.

[JavaTigress]

9 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

TJ said it is never going to happen that any of us will see a different version of the AP.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Someone posted - ages ago - that we should see the AP as what it is - a massive garbage dump for the stuff players don't want to keep - for whatever reason, in which we might find the occasional treasure. That's the size of it. Garbage pickers IRL go through garbage to find things worth keeping - so do we who haunt the AP. The AP was never set up as someone's second best jewellery box. It's SUPPOSED to be primarily full of junk. And it is. Deal with that. I just had a quick trawl. It's very varied - and there is not one single egg in there I would have kept. Just because they are all different breeds today doesn't make them ever so lovely  I did actually spot some beautiful nocturnes in that wall.

This... I always sort of viewed stalking the AP as shopping a rummage sale.

The stuff that is there is THERE because its owner doesn't want it. You look because you never know what you might find, but it isn't guaranteed to be full of treasures.

 

For THAT matter , we aren't guaranteed to find what we want when we go tot he biomes for hunting, either. At is all part of the game. I appreciate being able to play how i like with my dragons, and, though I understand WHY others might find walls annoying, I would say NO to anything that would impact another person's ability to breed what they like WHEN they like. Just because I don't want the dragons in the wall, doesn't mean there aren't other people who are gleefully grabbing all they can while the getting is good. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by JavaTigress

[Cinspawn]

This is a hard one. I too enjoy the low AP times, but I am also someone who has all the time in the world and it's not a huge deal for me if a wall persists very long. I mean I don't LIKE it but I just think of the benefits and try to do something else. I can imagine them being very frustrating.

 

To the people saying it's not fair to limit breeding/abandoning because it's limiting a playstyle - so are the huge (suuuuper long) walls. Those limit the playstyle of people who don't have a lot of time and wanted to search through the AP.

 

To be completely fair, the way things are right now, I don't mind it so much personally. But I feel the mass wall is a mechanic that potentially CAN be abused, and that is worrisome. I can deal with a 48hr wall for now, sure. Can I deal with a 48hr wall every week? What about a 72hr one? At what point is it enough?

So for that reason I feel there should be some kind of limit, but I really wouldn't know what the best way to do that would be. Maybe something like the first suggestion angelicdragonpuppy gave, or even something that automatically speeds up the timer of AP eggs if they've been in there long enough. I really don't know 🤷‍♀️

 

I'd love it if we could have a way to keep the walls, but also limit them. If the timer gets lower, it should be able to get REALLY low - otherwise future 72 hr walls will just become the 48 hr walls of today, if that makes sense. So I feel there shouldn't be a cap on how low the timer gets or on how fast the timer lowers - because then the same problem will eventually come back. Because the idea of enough users picking it up making the timer lower is abuseable and/or not effective (not enough users doing this - wall persists) perhaps an automatic lowering of the timers? The bigger the wall, the faster they age. No idea if this can be coded easily, though.

[Keileon]

There's also the fact that long walls are almost always going to be low-time-- at which point, you want to do something productive? Catch, hatch, release. That way the wall moves faster, there's a smaller wall of hatchies a few days later, and even if you abandon the egg after putting it in a hatchery the cracking sequence will make it more likely to be picked up.

[Fuzzbucket]

18 minutes ago, Cinspawn said:

This is a hard one. I too enjoy the low AP times, but I am also someone who has all the time in the world and it's not a huge deal for me if a wall persists very long. I mean I don't LIKE it but I just think of the benefits and try to do something else. I can imagine them being very frustrating.

 

To the people saying it's not fair to limit breeding/abandoning because it's limiting a playstyle - so are the huge (suuuuper long) walls. Those limit the playstyle of people who don't have a lot of time and wanted to search through the AP.

 

Basically - it doesn't happen that often and it really isn't the end of the world if you just have to avoid hunting in the AP for 48 hours once in a while. Rather that than try to prevent an player breeding the way they want to.

 

5 minutes ago, Keileon said:

There's also the fact that long walls are almost always going to be low-time-- at which point, you want to do something productive? Catch, hatch, release. That way the wall moves faster, there's a smaller wall of hatchies a few days later, and even if you abandon the egg after putting it in a hatchery the cracking sequence will make it more likely to be picked up.

 

Indeed. I did a little of that, but mostly I was locked anyway.

[Stormcaller]

33 minutes ago, Cinspawn said:

...To the people saying it's not fair to limit breeding/abandoning because it's limiting a playstyle - so are the huge (suuuuper long) walls. Those limit the playstyle of people who don't have a lot of time and wanted to search through the AP...

 

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make.  We need to have variety, not just walls, so as to accommodate the playstyle of everyone. We probably all have to compromise a bit to do this, but we used to be able to do this and I don't see any good reason why we can't do it again. DC should be fun for everyone.

[osmarks]

3 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

We need to have variety, not just walls, so as to accommodate the playstyle of everyone.

The AP is just the pile of mostly unwanted stuff, with the occasional nice thing thrown in, sometimes by accident. It's not meant to accommodate anything.

[Fuzzbucket]

12 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

 

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make.  We need to have variety, not just walls, so as to accommodate the playstyle of everyone. We probably all have to compromise a bit to do this, but we used to be able to do this and I don't see any good reason why we can't do it again. DC should be fun for everyone.

 

We do have variety. Some days there are walls and most days there aren't walls. Some days one lot of us has fun, other days another lot.  And yes to osmarks as well. It's not there for our convenience, it's a garbage bin.

[Stormcaller]

4 minutes ago, osmarks said:

The AP is just the pile of mostly unwanted stuff, with the occasional nice thing thrown in, sometimes by accident. It's not meant to accommodate anything.

 

It used to be that way but mass breeding has changed that. That was when the AP was composed of bred eggs that turned out to be the wrong species, CB eggs that were picked up accidentally and discarded, maybe even great eggs lost in transport, and other interesting things being bred and passed along. 

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

...Someone posted - ages ago - that we should see the AP as what it is - a massive garbage dump for the stuff players don't want to keep - for whatever reason, in which we might find the occasional treasure. That's the size of it. Garbage pickers IRL go through garbage to find things worth keeping - so do we who haunt the AP. The AP was never set up as someone's second best jewellery box. It's SUPPOSED to be primarily full of junk...

 

Yes, but what we have isn't natural junk, it's the result of a playstyle by which one or more players overrun the natural order of things by dominating one of the major ways that other members can obtain eggs with which to play.  This obstructs the playstyle of many players to accommodate the playstyles of the few.

[osmarks]

1 minute ago, Stormcaller said:

It used to be that way but mass breeding has changed that.

No, it still contains whatever stuff people have abandoned (i.e. mostly what people don't want, with occasional deliberate "gifting" of cool things and accidental breeding to the AP), and probably always will.

 

1 minute ago, Stormcaller said:

Yes, but what we have isn't natural junk [...] natural order of things

So what?

[Fuzzbucket]

19 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

 

It used to be that way but mass breeding has changed that. That was when the AP was composed of bred eggs that turned out to be the wrong species, CB eggs that were picked up accidentally and discarded, maybe even great eggs lost in transport, and other interesting things being bred and passed along. 

 

Yes, but what we have isn't natural junk, it's the result of a playstyle by which one or more players overrun the natural order of things by dominating one of the major ways that other members can obtain eggs with which to play.  This obstructs the playstyle of many players to accommodate the playstyles of the few.

 

NOT by any means all the time. At the moment it has mostly very boring 2 gens. I could equally say  it's obstructing MY playstyle - there is NOTHING in there that I would want to keep. (I checked every last egg on one page of it. A very boring exercise as I'm locked and have to do the thing with every last one of them.)

 

Basically, the AP impedes everyone's playstyle if it doesn't have what we happen to want in it.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[HeatherMarie]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

NOT by any means all the time. At the moment it has mostly very boring 2 gens. I could equally say  is obstructing MY playstyle - there is NOTHING in there that I would want to keep. (I checked every last egg on one page of it. A very boring exercise as I'm locked and have to do the thing with every last one of them.)

 

Basically, the AP impedes everyone's playstyle if it doesn't have what we happen to want in it.

 

Completely agree. The AP is not meant to be this wonderful glorious treasure-chest for everyone, it was never meant to be that. The AP is crap most of the time, for a lot of users, and every once in awhile there is something good there. 'Good' being completely subjective.

 

While I do agree that the super-long-lasting walls have been more frequent and more annoying the last year or so, trying to argue that the AP isn't working right because it doesn't have what *you* want is just not a good argument. The 'natural order' of the AP is just this: Whatever people abandon. That's what the AP is. The AP is NOT 'tons of interesting breeds' or 'lots of variety' or 'some junk with some gems' or however you want to term it, the AP is simply what people abandon. It's the way every individual *sees* the AP that's the big issue: Some see it as a great way to get low-time CBs, some see it as a garbage pile full of junk they don't want, some see it as a treasure box that they should be able to pick-and-choose from.... But none of that is what the AP actually *is*. Putting your own expectations on the AP is not helpful to this suggestion. If I did that, I would be arguing for *more* *messy* mass-breeds.