Ability to Freeze upon Time of Maturation

[blah]

I probably should then. 😂 Thank you.

[antigod]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I still don't care.  But I also still think shorted cooldown is the easy way to handle this.

 

But I also stick with KISS, and also - TJ has made it very clear that he's not at present OK with changing our minds over freezing after it's done in the current way, so at the moment at least I can't see that suggestion flying before any new system is tested.

Bruh what? I wasn't even talking to you; I was answering someone else's questions. If you don't care, don't post. Not every thread has to catch your interest and no one is forcing a response from you. Also, this is very specifically talking about a suggested freeze option outside of what is currently available, so being able to undo that the same way one might go about undoing an influence is not asking for a revision of current freeze permanence. In any case, I am not trying to change anyone's opinions, merely stating a suggestion and explaining how it would work.

Edited May 14, 2019 by antigod

[Fuzzbucket]

I mean that I don't care whether this happens or not, but if it does, I have views on how it would best work. I am perfectly entitled to express those views.

 

But also I cannot ever see TJ agreeing that something that is effectively an undo-freeze is going to be OK, and that's something that is quite important to think about. You said it would be a way to change your mind, like influence. I really don't think that would be OK - whether I care if this happens or not.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

In any case, TJ is quite capable of using a suggestion and implementing it slightly different from the way it was suggested to suit his own ideas about his site. See fluctuating market prices (not much of a consensus on that, the idea got mostly ignored), Ward helping only for 6 hours and being impossible to cast on the same egg twice or (seemingly?) making zombies harder to get once they got all those new sprites...

[HeatherMarie]

15 hours ago, olympe said:

@HeatherMarie If you had read the very first sentence of my post above, you wouldn't even have to ask. Also, all your and fuzzbucket's points about "pending freezes", about "complicated maths", "having to keep track of your hatchi slots", "planning ahead" and KISS still stand. Whether this is an addition or in exchange to the current freezing mechanics.

 

You are right, all those points/concerns still stand. BUT, if the suggestion is an *addition* to the current mechanism, then we can *choose* to just not use it. We can go ahead freezing the regular way and never have to bother with keeping track and the complicated math and such. It won't negatively affect me in any way if there is a *different* mechanism, that I personally feel is more complicated then need be, as long as I can still use the current mechanism. That's why I'm not against this suggestion the way I was yours, because this one isn't forcing a complicated change on anyone, it's simply *adding* something.

[TJ09]

On 5/13/2019 at 4:36 PM, HeatherMarie said:

@olympe Um, this suggestion is in *addition* to the current freezing mechanism. You wanted to *replace* the current system. Two very very different things. I don't give a crap either way about if *this* one is implemented or not, but I *don't* want a complicated mechanism *replacing* what we have now. How can you even think the threads are the same? Did you actually read this thread, or just assume it was exactly like yours?

 

I don't think it makes sense to have two completely different mechanisms by which to freeze dragons that have different limitations, act in different ways, etc. Why do we need an extra thing that bypasses everything about the current thing? Because people don't like the current limits and want a way around them? Then that's valid feedback, but adding complexity isn't the solution (nor am I really convinced it actually needs solving any more than people need more egg slots, which I think are in a good state).

 

Part of the premise of the thread is misled anyways ("I just don't see why hatchling collection should necessarily be harder than adult collecting")—freezing is intentionally not supposed to be faster than actually raising dragons, and as a tradeoff for taking less effort (plus immediately freeing slots for more eggs/hatchlings), it errs on the side of being more limited. If people want something that 100% matches the dragon-raising behavior, I'm open to that, but it'd have to be instead of the current system, which is exactly what you say you don't want.

[Fuzzbucket]

So - may we have a shorter cooldown, for those who want to amass freezie armies ?

[antigod]

@TJ09 I'm actually very open to an overhaul at the cost of the current system. I never really saw much benefit to having shorter time spent on my scroll if I cannot collect hatchlings nearly as easily.

Thought people might miss the old system, though, so I offered it as an addition to the old (current) one. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by antigod

[Sazandora]

I really don't see anything wrong with the current way freezing works, so I don't really understand why it should be changed into something totally different or more complicated. People get pretty hatchlings to stay on their scroll forever at the cost of BSAs and not being able to use the hatchlings for breeding. I don't think we should have to wait for the hatchling to "grow up" so we could freeze it, as all it does is just sit on your scroll and look pretty. Can't use BSA's, can't be used for breeding, only "valuable" for people who want to collect every sprite or people who just like to hoard frozen hatchlings.

 

So if there really is something wrong with the current freezing system that should be changed, then please -- by all means, point it out to me as I am not seeing it.

[antigod]

I am one of those people who want to collect every sprite/possibly want to hoard frozen hatchlings (collecting every sprite comes first). I cannot say there is something wrong with the current freezing system if you do not happen to get much out of having many frozen hatchlings on your scroll. A suggestion like this only really serves to help those who do want to collect more frozen hatchlings than what current limitations allow for should they agree with it.

Edited May 15, 2019 by antigod

[Sazandora]

Alright, I can understand that. As I've stated before, I could be fine with a thing like this -- only if it's a thing alongside the current way freezing works right now. But if it's a choice between this or the old way, I'd rather pick the old way, for reasons I mentioned in my previous post.

[Mewtie]

To me it never seemed intentional that the freeze action can be used to accumulate a greater number of no longer growing dragons overall in a shorter amount of time, so I think something that 100% matches the dragon-raising behavior actually sounds more sensible to me than the current system. I have not yet understood how exactly this would make freezing more inconvenient to use aside from that, and if I'm not mistaken, it would actually allow people to freeze more dragons in a shorter amount of time. And I personally like the idea of people that don't or no longer collect adults being able to accumulate dragons just as quickly as people that raise them to adulthood.

[Sazandora]

Well, then maybe don't count frozen hatchlings as grown dragons. To me "grown dragons" sounds like it should mean adults, and frozen hatchlings are not really adults. And really, the problem I have with so many of these proposed changes to freezing is that when I want to freeze a dragon, I don't want to have to wait several days for it to actually become frozen -- why should I have to wait? I'm not a mass-collector of frozen hatchlings, I only freeze stuff if they have a fun code but I'm not really interested in raising them to adulthood, or if I'm still missing some hatchling sprites from my collection. Call me impatient if you want to, but is instant-freezing really a problem that should be fixed? It's not like people are collecting hundreds of dragons in just a few days by freezing them the moment they hatch. That's why we have freezing limits in the first place.

[olympe]

@Mewtie The problem with replacing the current system, which allows you some extras (to your maxed-out adults), is that the proposed system would not garner you any extras any more, but only allow you to choose between adults and frozen hatchlings. Yet, at the same time, people feel too limited by the current freezing limits because they can raise way more adults than they can freeze hatchlings, leading to "imbalanced" scrolls.

[Mewtie]

49 minutes ago, Sazandora said:

Well, then maybe don't count frozen hatchlings as grown dragons. To me "grown dragons" sounds like it should mean adults, and frozen hatchlings are not really adults. And really, the problem I have with so many of these proposed changes to freezing is that when I want to freeze a dragon, I don't want to have to wait several days for it to actually become frozen -- why should I have to wait? I'm not a mass-collector of frozen hatchlings, I only freeze stuff if they have a fun code but I'm not really interested in raising them to adulthood, or if I'm still missing some hatchling sprites from my collection. Call me impatient if you want to, but is instant-freezing really a problem that should be fixed? It's not like people are collecting hundreds of dragons in just a few days by freezing them the moment they hatch. That's why we have freezing limits in the first place.

Such a change would affect existing progress towards a trophy level if someone has frozen hatchlings and not yet enough adult dragons for a platinum trophy, which to me doesn't seem particularly fair.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Mewtie

[Fuzzbucket]

4 hours ago, Sazandora said:

I really don't see anything wrong with the current way freezing works, so I don't really understand why it should be changed into something totally different or more complicated. People get pretty hatchlings to stay on their scroll forever at the cost of BSAs and not being able to use the hatchlings for breeding. I don't think we should have to wait for the hatchling to "grow up" so we could freeze it, as all it does is just sit on your scroll and look pretty. Can't use BSA's, can't be used for breeding, only "valuable" for people who want to collect every sprite or people who just like to hoard frozen hatchlings.

 

So if there really is something wrong with the current freezing system that should be changed, then please -- by all means, point it out to me as I am not seeing it.

 

i'm absolutely with you here.

 

4 hours ago, antigod said:

I am one of those people who want to collect every sprite/possibly want to hoard frozen hatchlings (collecting every sprite comes first). I cannot say there is something wrong with the current freezing system if you do not happen to get much out of having many frozen hatchlings on your scroll. A suggestion like this only really serves to help those who do want to collect more frozen hatchlings than what current limitations allow for should they agree with it.

 

There are no limits on the number you can collect. It just takes longer than you would like.

[antigod]

Limitation, not limit. 52.1429 weeks in a year equate to a maximum of 469 possible frozen hatchlings per year should you be able to be there each and every time one of your freeze slots opens up (some people wait until they have their desired breed to freeze available too, further lowering that number). Which is pretty bad considering you can collect many times that number in adults in the same amount of time.

Edited May 15, 2019 by antigod

[HeatherMarie]

4 hours ago, Mewtie said:

Such a change would affect existing progress towards a trophy level if someone has frozen hatchlings and not yet enough adult dragons for a platinum trophy, which to me doesn't seem particularly fair.

 

Yeah, at this point not counting frozens as 'grown dragons' is just not an option imo. It would *severely* screw with many user's scroll-counts to the point of costing them trophies, which definitely doesn't seem like a good idea in any way. It's one of those things that might've made some sort of sense if it had been done at the start, or at least a lot earlier, but now it would just have too much of a negative impact on users.

 

If TJ doesn't like the idea of two separate freezing mechanics then I'd much rather stick with what we currently have. I'm one of those users who does freeze a lot, and I often hit or get close to the limit. But I also raise adults. And I want to be able to keep raising adults. I do *not* want to have tons of not-yet-frozen hatchlings taking up space for days. This suggestion would be great for people who don't really raise adults anymore and only care about freezing hatchlings, but it seems it would severely penalize people who actually want to do both. I would love more freeze slots, or a shorter cooldown, or something like that, but I definitely do not want the current mechanism to change to something so complicated and ultimately limiting.

[Fuzzbucket]

7 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

Yeah, at this point not counting frozens as 'grown dragons' is just not an option imo. It would *severely* screw with many user's scroll-counts to the point of costing them trophies, which definitely doesn't seem like a good idea in any way. It's one of those things that might've made some sort of sense if it had been done at the start, or at least a lot earlier, but now it would just have too much of a negative impact on users.

 

If TJ doesn't like the idea of two separate freezing mechanics then I'd much rather stick with what we currently have. I'm one of those users who does freeze a lot, and I often hit or get close to the limit. But I also raise adults. And I want to be able to keep raising adults. I do *not* want to have tons of not-yet-frozen hatchlings taking up space for days. This suggestion would be great for people who don't really raise adults anymore and only care about freezing hatchlings, but it seems it would severely penalize people who actually want to do both. I would love more freeze slots, or a shorter cooldown, or something like that, but I definitely do not want the current mechanism to change to something so complicated and ultimately limiting.

 

This exactly. In my view, a shorter cooldown is the only mechanism that wouldn't mess with existing play styles but would  help the OP and others like them. If  I freeze, I want the "instafreeze opens up a slot" thing to stay.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

43 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

If TJ doesn't like the idea of two separate freezing mechanics then I'd much rather stick with what we currently have. I'm one of those users who does freeze a lot, and I often hit or get close to the limit. But I also raise adults. And I want to be able to keep raising adults. I do *not* want to have tons of not-yet-frozen hatchlings taking up space for days. This suggestion would be great for people who don't really raise adults anymore and only care about freezing hatchlings, but it seems it would severely penalize people who actually want to do both. I would love more freeze slots, or a shorter cooldown, or something like that, but I definitely do not want the current mechanism to change to something so complicated and ultimately limiting.

Actually, that's not quite true. Unless you're one of those people who exclusively hunt in the AP, some extra "growing" hatchlings won't impact you at all due to the way the limits and timings work together.

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

Actually, that's not quite true. Unless you're one of those people who exclusively hunt in the AP, some extra "growing" hatchlings won't impact you at all due to the way the limits and timings work together.

 

*raises hand and waves it wildly* I almost exclusively hunt the AP. In general, the only time I have full-timed eggs on my scroll is during a new release or if I caught something in the biomes with the intention of trading it. I personally run into the 'locked with 24 hatchies and 0 eggs' thing a bunch during Incu-hatchable AP times. 

 

So, yes. For people who focus mainly on frozen hatchlings and not adults, this suggestion may be beneficial. For people who focus mainly on biome-caught eggs and not AP-caught, they may not feel limited by this suggestion. For people with other playstyles, however, this suggestion would not be a positive thing.

[Sazandora]

But still -- why should they even count as growing dragons when they aren't even actually growing anymore? I keep saying this, but is there something wrong with the current "instafreeze" (thanks, Fuzz)? Why should something be fixed when it's not even broken? Isn't it enough that we have to have hatchlings take up valuable slots while we wait for them to gender?

[Guillotine]

I don't see any way this would be better than revamping by having shorter cooldowns with smaller-but-equivalent-over-time limits.
 

[antigod]

I focus on both hatchlings and adults and hunt almost exclusively through AP 🤔 Again I'm not here to convince/change the minds those who have made up their mind as I have. Just to present a suggestion and hash out hypothetical details.

[Fuzzbucket]

21 minutes ago, Sazandora said:

 Why should something be fixed when it's not even broken? Isn't it enough that we have to have hatchlings take up valuable slots while we wait for them to gender?

 

I honestly cannot see any way that this idea would improve anything, and TJ has already said that it would have to be INSTEAD. And I can't see anyone who is happy with it as an instead (and not that many who want it even if he did allow it as an "as well.")