Jump to content
antigod

Ability to Freeze upon Time of Maturation

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Hello. Hopefully this isn't too redundant considering my last suggestion.

Perhaps a better answer to make frozen collections easier (than increasing freeze caps) is some type of option or BSA to freeze a hatchling at its current state once it has become able to mature. This will keep bred adults from unexpectedly turning into hatchlings on other people's lineages and will keep users from racking up too many dragons from freezes too quickly. Dragons frozen in this way will take a minimum of six days (five when incubated) to hatch and become frozen hatchlings, the same amount of time taken for eggs to mature into adult dragons.

As of now, a user will only be able to get three frozen hatchlings of six breeds every two weeks with a platinum trophy. Clearly this makes things quite hard for collecting full frozen hatchling collections for all 200+ breeds, not including variants.

I would like to see some type of way to increase the amount of frozen hatchlings we can collect implemented on the site. I just don't see why hatchling collection should necessarily be harder than adult collecting if i'm willing to put in the same amount of time keeping them in my growing slots.

Edit: It seems my wording is confusing in this post. I am asking for a delayed freeze option that works like raising an adult in the same amount of time that it takes to raise an adult, but for a frozen hatchling.

 

Edit 2: Confused Cat worded what I was trying to say better, so I'm quoting it here. Thank you!

 

5 hours ago, Confused Cat said:

You want to be able to freeze more dragons (to reach freeze goals faster). More freeze slots would be one way to achieve that. This thread is a different solution.

You are suggesting a new type of freeze action that is not limited in a "x times per week" way, but it only becomes available when a hatchling has 4 days 0 hours left (that is, when it would also be able to grow up). That way the hatchlings would occupy scroll space for the same time as a dragon that grows up normally, so nobody could just hatch and freeze hundreds of ER eggs in a day.

 

 

Edited by antigod

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

Your wording is indeed confusing. You CAN freeze hatchlings at stage 2 (gendered); there is no way adults can turn into hatchlings in lineages on other people's scrolls, as hatchlings can't breed, so would never be in a lineage.

 

I don't understand this suggestion at all. But if you actually men (tries to untangle this) that we should be able to freeze adults and by doing so turn them back into hatchies - no support at all.

 

The only change I'd quite like to see - for others; I don't freeze that much - is to cut the cooldown to a week from two weeks.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post

I think I understand part of what you're suggesting, so I'm trying to rephrase it:

You want to be able to freeze more dragons (to reach freeze goals faster). More freeze slots would be one way to achieve that. This thread is a different solution.

You are suggesting a new type of freeze action that is not limited in a "x times per week" way, but it only becomes available when a hatchling has 4 days 0 hours left (that is, when it would also be able to grow up). That way the hatchlings would occupy scroll space for the same time as a dragon that grows up normally, so nobody could just hatch and freeze hundreds of ER eggs in a day.

Is this correct?

 

(I'm not sure what the "adults turning into hatchlings" part is about, though.)

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Confused Cat said:

(I'm not sure what the "adults turning into hatchlings" part is about, though.)

I reckon it's there to differentiate this idea from any that might suggest turn adults into frozen hatchlings, which is not what it's meant to be about. In this idea the dragon's never in the adult stage, but it's easy to imagine someone proposing a variant where it hits the adult stage first and then reverts to a hatchling.

 

Also, your summary's how I understood it, too. ^_^

 

I'm not much of a freezer, myself, and rarely ever hit the freeze limit, but I'd like this for those that are. It sounds like a BSA to me (as in, best-suited for one); unfortunately I don't know any dragon it would suit. Perhaps antigod could make one? (Although, hmm. I suppose it's really only about delaying an already existing freeze spell... Chrono Xenowyrms "are masters of time magic, allowing them to manipulate the flow of time at will"? Might work for those. Send your freeze spell into the future; or freeze time for your freeze spell for an amount of time. XD)

 

12 hours ago, antigod said:

Dragons frozen in this way will take a minimum of six days to hatch and become frozen hatchlings, the same amount of time taken for eggs to mature into adult dragons.

Minor quibble: Incubate can get this down to five days. No biggie, though! Mostly mentioning it in case this is tripping anyone up.

Edited by pinkgothic

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, pinkgothic said:

I reckon it's there to differentiate this idea from any that might suggest turn adults into frozen hatchlings, which is not what it's meant to be about. In this idea the dragon's never in the adult stage, but it's easy to imagine someone proposing a variant where it hits the adult stage first and then reverts to a hatchling.

 

Where does the lineage thing come in in the suggestion here, then ? NO hatchling can EVER breed.

Quote

Chrono Xenowyrms "are masters of time magic, allowing them to manipulate the flow of time at will"? Might work for those. Send your freeze spell into the future; or freeze time for your freeze spell for an amount of time. XD)

 

Xenos will never have a BSA - birdz said so ages ago. 

 

 

Edited by Fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Where does the lineage thing come in in the suggestion here, then ? NO hatchling can EVER breed.

Again as pinkgothic said, I think it's to make it clear the idea proposed by Antigod doesn't include adults reverting to hatchlings, because then there would be the fuss over, does a hatchling appear in lineage or does the dragon disappear from it, or what... Because if an adult breeds and then turns into a hatchling, then even though it's a hatchling, it has children, etc. So they were saying this ISN'T what they were suggesting.

Share this post


Link to post

@Confused Cat You got it! I didn't really know how to phrase it. Hopefully it will be ok to quote your post in my original post?

Share this post


Link to post

So, if I'm understanding correctly, you'd use this action on a hatchling at, say, stage-1 at 5 days, and then when it reaches 4 days it would automatically freeze, but as a stage-1 regardless of if it's gotten to stage-2? That would be kind of cool, actually. I'd certainly still want to be able to freeze the normal way, but this would be a nice supplement to that. 

Share this post


Link to post

@HeatherMarie Yep! Pretty much. I'm not suggesting this as an overhaul of the pre-existing freeze mechanic, but something in addition to limited freeze usages that can be used to cut down wait times for permahatchlings.

Share this post


Link to post

So you couldn't use it to get yourself an S2 hatchling. 

Share this post


Link to post

But what you said was that you have to use the BSA - as Heather said:

 

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

So, if I'm understanding correctly, you'd use this action on a hatchling at, say, stage-1 at 5 days, and then when it reaches 4 days it would automatically freeze, but as a stage-1 regardless of if it's gotten to stage-2? That would be kind of cool, actually. I'd certainly still want to be able to freeze the normal way, but this would be a nice supplement to that. 

 

If you have to do it ahead of time you'd have no way of knowing for sure what stage the hatchie would be at. I'm just interested - this isn't something I'd be using.

Share this post


Link to post

@Fuzzbucket Use the action (BSA or account action, I could see it as either) at S1 and it stays an S1, use it at S2 and it will stay an S2 is how I visualize it.

Share this post


Link to post

So it isn't something you need to plan ahead, as Heather suggested. It would mean for a S2, you had to wait till the hatchie gendered and then freeze it - which makes it not much different from a regular freeze.

Share this post


Link to post

Yup, not that much different. It will hold up one of your hatchling slots as long as a normal hatchling would, whereas a traditionally frozen hatchling will require less time spent taking up slots (at the cost of one freeze slot).

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

Yes, as I read it it's basically regular freeze but borrowing a growing slot instead of a freezing slot. I think it's pretty sensible: a way to loosen freeze restrictions without allowing people to grow their scrolls even faster like a straight increase in freezing would, and gives the choice of going for hatchies or adults without needing to sacrifice anything else. It might need a new symbol while in progress though, as the regular freeze symbol being used while the dragon's taking up a slot would be extremely confusing. (Or I suppose there can just be a message on the view page saying "This hatchling will be frozen in x time" instead of the "will die if it doesn't grow in x time" message.)

 

Some things to consider: will the pre-frozen hatchies be tradeable/abandonable before they hit "spell maturation", or can they only be released? Should the spell be cancel-able before it hits true freeze? Can they still gain views? And if so, will they need to be given enough views to "grow up" or will they do it automatically no matter how low the stats? Basically are hatchlings considered mini-adults like current freezies as soon as you press the pre-freeze button, or are they just regular hatchlings until they actually "grow up"?

 

Simplest options for ^ would be: they are considered "frozen" as soon as you press the button, and if you want them off your scroll before they hit time you can only release them. They gain no views and will "grow up" automatically. However, I wouldn't be against it being cancelable so you can trade or abandon something you change your mind on because they're basically regular hatchlings as long as they're still on the timer and there's not much exploitation I can think of, but then the view stuff also needs to be considered.

Edited by Shadowdrake

Share this post


Link to post

I believe those should behave like Influenced eggs (yes, eggs specifically) - as soon as it's in your scroll, it hatches into the Influenced gender, but if you trade it before it hatches, the Influence gets cancelled as it enters the other scroll. Same would work fine here - the action only affects your own scroll and doesn't carry onto another if the critter is traded before it levels up.

This way someone who only needs the hatchie frozen but also would like to try to trade it for something else (especially by offering on someone else's link) doesn't risk being left  without the frozen and without the thing they hoped to get in a trade if they can't be online when the timer's up at growing up and the trader hasn't responded before they had to go..

 

Hm now I think about it I wouldn't like to be a newbie in 2019 with my minimal 3 frozens per breed goal.... There's too many breeds by now, compared to what was there a few years ago when I joined in 2013. Ofc not to mention things like undeads which are still taking me years of actual trying, wasting dozens of dragons per single success.Not inviting.

Share this post


Link to post

VixenDra's suggestion for it to work like influence is the best way I can see this working. Delayed freeze will not occur if traded or abandoned (unless a delayed freeze action is applied again by its owner).

That way you can undo if you change your mind too in the same way you can with influence, provided you have a trusted friend to catch your hatchling.

Share this post


Link to post

@antigod Funny thing is: I once pretty much proposed to exchange the current freezing mechanism for your suggestion (instead of adding it) - and got shot down by a vocal group claiming that it would be too complicated to use the action now and have the hatchling auto-freeze upon reaching 4 days. Like here, it's one of the first posts in the thread, with quick clarifications coming up all within page one:

So, sorry to burst your collective bubbles:

On 7/9/2018 at 11:55 PM, HeatherMarie said:

See, personally I think that this idea of a 'freezing process' is actually much *more* constrictive the a simple numerical limit. And much more complicated, no matter what sort of text you put explaining it. Instead of simply checking to make sure you have freezes left, or calculating when you'll get a freeze back (which isn't as easy right now as it could be, admittedly), you basically have to forfeit slots for days at a time, *constantly*, while this whole 'process' is happening... Which will include having to constantly calculate or keep track of exactly when that freeze-pending hatchling will hit 4 days and *actually* freeze and stop taking up a slot. I would much much *much* rather have a simple numerical limit on how many I can freeze in a certain amount of time, rather then constantly having multiple slots taken up by 'pending' freezes for multiple days. That feels much more inconvenient and frustrating then a simple limit. 

 

At the highest trophy, we currently have a limit of 24 'growing things'. If you want to max out your eggslots (which many people do), that means a limit of 16 hatchlings at a time. For those of us who prefer to freeze stage-1 hatchlings, we often freeze as soon as they hatch to make sure they don't accidentally gender before we freeze them. That means having at *least* one of those 16 hatchling-slots taken up for *three days* every single time I want to freeze. That seems like a rather excessive 'punishment' for freezing, honestly. If we had unlimited 'growing things' slots it wouldn't be an issue, but right now it's just waaaayyy too much of a downside.

 

On 7/10/2018 at 11:18 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

I agree with Heather. All I'd like to see is a shorter cooldown. No extra complexities, thanks.

 

On 7/10/2018 at 3:30 PM, Sazandora said:

Ditto. Just shorten the cooldown and once we've used up all the freeze slots, add a BSA-style timer to show when we'll be able to freeze stuff again. These are just pixels we're collecting, no need to arbitarily punish those who want to collect hatchling sprites in addition to adult sprites.

 

On 7/10/2018 at 11:23 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

Make sure to include please just shorten cd or up the numbers. I don't want ANY of this stuff. KISS is the best thing EVER. We don't need all this added math, we so very much don't. IT will do nothing but confuse almost everyone.

 

At this moment I am profoundly glad that I'm really not that interested in freezing at all :blink:

 

In other words: Please, people, be consistent. The older thread is not even a year old. It's always amazing how quickly some people can change their tune if it suits them.

 

Share this post


Link to post

@olympe ...you dug up a 6-month old comment just to pretty much tell us off? Why even bother...?

 

Just FYI -- I am fine with this thing if it does not replace the current freezing mechanic. I see nothing wrong with the way freezing works right now, so I don't think it needs to be changed into something that makes it more inconvenient to use. But if this were to replace the way freezing works right now, then I am against it.

Share this post


Link to post

@olympe Um, this suggestion is in *addition* to the current freezing mechanism. You wanted to *replace* the current system. Two very very different things. I don't give a crap either way about if *this* one is implemented or not, but I *don't* want a complicated mechanism *replacing* what we have now. How can you even think the threads are the same? Did you actually read this thread, or just assume it was exactly like yours?

Share this post


Link to post

@HeatherMarie If you had read the very first sentence of my post above, you wouldn't even have to ask. Also, all your and fuzzbucket's points about "pending freezes", about "complicated maths", "having to keep track of your hatchi slots", "planning ahead" and KISS still stand. Whether this is an addition or in exchange to the current freezing mechanics.

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, antigod said:

VixenDra's suggestion for it to work like influence is the best way I can see this working. Delayed freeze will not occur if traded or abandoned (unless a delayed freeze action is applied again by its owner).

That way you can undo if you change your mind too in the same way you can with influence, provided you have a trusted friend to catch your hatchling.

 

I still don't care. ;) But I also still think shorted cooldown is the easy way to handle this.

 

But I also stick with KISS, and also - TJ has made it very clear that he's not at present OK with changing our minds over freezing after it's done in the current way, so at the moment at least I can't see that suggestion flying before any new system is tested.

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.