ANSWERED:Dragon Cave Raffle- Increase the Pool of Winners

[olympe]

Personally, I think that the only way to fix the raffle is to stop it. And put prizes in the market instead.

[Keileon]

7 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

For what it's worth, it seems pretty simple to me:

// roll for 60 winners (already happens)

typeIds = SELECT typeId FROM dragons WHERE user_id IN (...winners...) AND typeId IN (...prize dragon types...) AND parent_f IS NULL AND parent_m IS NULL

// give out prizes (already happens)

foreach (type in typeIds) {
    // roll for a new winner for the type
    // re-roll if it's in this raffle's list of 60 winners
    // (or use an exclusionary randomness in the first place: https://stackoverflow.com/a/2698316/245790)
}

 

You also need to reroll if the new person has won before, if they won an extra prize through this method before, make sure they aren't being selected as the secondary winner for two previous winners in the same raffle...

[pinkgothic]

22 minutes ago, Keileon said:

You also need to reroll if the new person has won before

I suppose that depends on how far you want to take re-roll purity, but fair enough.  Given that I'd generally recommend using exclusionary randomness in this, throw all people with CB prizes into the exclusion list for the re-rolls.

 

22 minutes ago, Keileon said:

if they won an extra prize through this method before

I honestly don't see why the method of how someone obtained their CB prize would be relevant. What am I missing?

 

22 minutes ago, Keileon said:

make sure they aren't being selected as the secondary winner for two previous winners in the same raffle...

I don't know what you're even saying with this, sorry. Can you rephrase?

[Fuzzbucket]

4 hours ago, Kaini said:

 

It isn't unfair. Everyone has the same chance each drawing. And what is there to hate? TJ had run the math before and said that eliminating past winners from winning again does not significantly increase your chances of winning. Keeping past winners from winning again does not help your chances, and there's nothing unfair about someone winning twice.

 

 

Most of the ideas in this thread have already been kicked around, more than once - what is being suggested here? Raising the number of winners each month? Again, that's been suggested before. TJ also prefers suggestions each have their own threads rather than lumping multiple suggestions into one.

 

This - it isn't unfair. It's sad for non-winners, but it is perfectly FAIR.

 

1 hour ago, olympe said:

Personally, I think that the only way to fix the raffle is to stop it. And put prizes in the market instead.

 

The OP DID ask us not to mention the market this time

 

@pinkgothic - no thanks. Just unnecessarily complicated. Just run an RNG; job done. More prizes would be nice - other than that, just leave it as it is in terms of the RAFFLE. Other separate issues are - separate issues..

[Keileon]

48 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

I suppose that depends on how far you want to take re-roll purity, but fair enough.  Given that I'd generally recommend using exclusionary randomness in this, throw all people with CB prizes into the exclusion list for the re-rolls.

Rewarding a prize to someone who has won before, because a different previous winner won again, just seems contradictory.

 

I honestly don't see why the method of how someone obtained their CB prize would be relevant. What am I missing?

It's not much different from my above comment, honestly. Person wins two raffles and gets two prizes vs different people win two raffles each and the site selects the same person for both to receive the extra prize.

 

I don't know what you're even saying with this, sorry. Can you rephrase?

We're talking about an extra person getting a prize if there's a repeat winner, right? Similar to my second comment, except that there are two previous winners in the same raffle and both choose the very lucky rando to receive the extra prize.

Answers in bold! Sorry, was tired when I posted.

[olympe]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

The OP DID ask us not to mention the market this time

True - but I'm a little bit too afraid of TJ going for malicious compliance when I only state to stop the raffle, so there was no safe way to avoid it.  

[Bigbite]

I have been a member of DC since 2010 and have not won anything here at all. An increase in the number of winners per month seems to be the right way of giving more people a chance of winning. 

Someday my month will come.😉

[osmarks]

Increasing prize count would be simple enough and help with the current issues, at least.

[purplehaze]

On 5/1/2019 at 6:57 PM, Bigbite said:

Someday my month will come.😉

Incurable optimism? But, yeah, that is what keeps us all entering month after month!

I really would like to see a larger pool of winners. I think it would help immensely.

I don't really want a CB Prize for the trading value. I would just like it to be easier to build lineages. I see people managing to build very pretty checkers with them, but I am not much of a trader, so I feel like if I had my own CB I could at least arrange a few bloodswaps.

[Ruby Eyes]

300 Prizes per month. 25 Gold, 50 Silver and 75 Bronze of each Eastern and Western Prize.

Pretty please!

[olympe]

4 hours ago, purplehaze said:

I really would like to see a larger pool of winners. I think it would help immensely.

Yeah, it would help those lucky hybrids who always win anyway to get even more CB prizes onto their scroll... *sigh* That's just how random works.

[purplehaze]

3 minutes ago, olympe said:

Yeah, it would help those lucky hybrids who always win anyway to get even more CB prizes onto their scroll... *sigh* That's just how random works.

Yes, a few more double winners perhaps, but more new winners, too.

[Natayah]

I'm totally OK with this idea. My only concern is not to the idea, but that people are going to have so much drama over the few people that "win more than one prize." Which isn't a reason not to do this. I think some of those lines that have 2 CB's bred together I love them! I want 2G bebes from them! And the only way we get them if some people win more than once. And even while it is is a teeny tiny percent, if you raise the numbers of winners from the pools you are going to have a teeny tiny amount of people who are going to "win more than once." But people freak out, drama-neurockitout, and focus on these few people out of thousands and have really bitter and get can get borderline obsessive. Almost to the point of letting it destroy the game for them. And I'm just like.... if a game isn't fun, you need to not play it. Either deal with it so you can still have fun playing, or don't play because if you ain't having fun, what the heck are you doing with your life and time??

 

I don't mean to be mean and judgmental and I really say that in the kindest way possible. I want all active game and especially older players and especially especially involved players in the player community to all have prizes. Like I want you all to have at least a few CB Golds Dragons, CB Silvers, NDs or whatever rare, semi-rare or ultra rare dragons you don't already have. Look, the idea about Prizes is that they are Prizes so you can't "earn" them. But all the other dragons, or cool lineages and whatever, if you are going to be involved in the community, I want all these good things for you. If you cannot buy it in the market, I am glad we have some people and player events that do try to help with this. But Prizes are Prizes, so I'm happy to improve your chances, which means all players chances no matter how active they are or are not (they have to at least get a few dragons raised though at least, that does help!!), but if you gave out 5000 Prize dragons every month, some people are still going to be disappointed.

 

So totally in support, but I would also ask if you are a person where not winning Prizes upset you on a level deeper than just a passing disappointment, and it really eats at you, you have to realize there is no coding or suggestion that will ever be implemented that is going to "heal" that for you or appease that for you. That is something you will have to do personally. 

 

I hope this doesn't come off mean or harsh. You have no idea the lengths I and others go to and deeply want you all to be happy. You are all the reasons this place exists and I want you to get ALL the THINGS! I and many others have invested a lot of time in the past, and current, to try and help with that. Many of you reading this probably also do it yourself too (which is why I want you to be happy, you are fantastic people!!) I like the idea, but don't let not winning them drive you crazy.

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, Natayah said:

 My only concern is not to the idea, but that people are going to have so much drama over the few people that "win more than one prize." Which isn't a reason not to do this.

 

But people freak out, drama-neurockitout, and focus on these few people out of thousands and have really bitter and get can get borderline obsessive. Almost to the point of letting it destroy the game for them. And I'm just like.... if a game isn't fun, you need to not play it. Either deal with it so you can still have fun playing, or don't play because if you ain't having fun, what the heck are you doing with your life and time??

 

Prizes are Prizes, so I'm happy to improve your chances, which means all players chances no matter how active they are or are not (they have to at least get a few dragons raised though at least, that does help!!), but if you gave out 5000 Prize dragons every month, some people are still going to be disappointed.

 

So totally in support, but I would also ask if you are a person where not winning Prizes upset you on a level deeper than just a passing disappointment, and it really eats at you, you have to realize there is no coding or suggestion that will ever be implemented that is going to "heal" that for you or appease that for you. That is something you will have to do personally. 

 

This. People who win more than once do NOT spoil it for everyone else. They really don't. If I could be bothered to believe that, I would not be speaking to my daughter, who has won several times with her Premium Bonds, while I - who have owned mine for literally ten times as long, have never won a single penny. Getting so upset about this stuff is seriously bad for your health - mental and physical.

 

But I do think the prize pool could be significantly larger.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I'd definitely like to see the pool increased.

[UnicornMaiden]

On 5/5/2019 at 7:04 PM, Natayah said:

I'm totally OK with this idea. My only concern is not to the idea, but that people are going to have so much drama over the few people that "win more than one prize." Which isn't a reason not to do this. I think some of those lines that have 2 CB's bred together I love them! I want 2G bebes from them! And the only way we get them if some people win more than once. And even while it is is a teeny tiny percent, if you raise the numbers of winners from the pools you are going to have a teeny tiny amount of people who are going to "win more than once." But people freak out, drama-neurockitout, and focus on these few people out of thousands and have really bitter and get can get borderline obsessive. Almost to the point of letting it destroy the game for them. And I'm just like.... if a game isn't fun, you need to not play it. Either deal with it so you can still have fun playing, or don't play because if you ain't having fun, what the heck are you doing with your life and time??

 

I don't mean to be mean and judgmental and I really say that in the kindest way possible. I want all active game and especially older players and especially especially involved players in the player community to all have prizes. Like I want you all to have at least a few CB Golds Dragons, CB Silvers, NDs or whatever rare, semi-rare or ultra rare dragons you don't already have. Look, the idea about Prizes is that they are Prizes so you can't "earn" them. But all the other dragons, or cool lineages and whatever, if you are going to be involved in the community, I want all these good things for you. If you cannot buy it in the market, I am glad we have some people and player events that do try to help with this. But Prizes are Prizes, so I'm happy to improve your chances, which means all players chances no matter how active they are or are not (they have to at least get a few dragons raised though at least, that does help!!), but if you gave out 5000 Prize dragons every month, some people are still going to be disappointed.

 

So totally in support, but I would also ask if you are a person where not winning Prizes upset you on a level deeper than just a passing disappointment, and it really eats at you, you have to realize there is no coding or suggestion that will ever be implemented that is going to "heal" that for you or appease that for you. That is something you will have to do personally. 

 

I hope this doesn't come off mean or harsh. You have no idea the lengths I and others go to and deeply want you all to be happy. You are all the reasons this place exists and I want you to get ALL the THINGS! I and many others have invested a lot of time in the past, and current, to try and help with that. Many of you reading this probably also do it yourself too (which is why I want you to be happy, you are fantastic people!!) I like the idea, but don't let not winning them drive you crazy.

 

THIS

 

I get that it's disappointing not to win, and I want everyone to get a chance to win at least one prize. But some people do seem to take it more seriously and get more upset over it than the issue really deserves.

 

Speaking as someone who has won once, I would totally support increasing the number of prizes given each raffle, even if it lowers my dragon's trading value. I like seeing lineages with the pretty prize sprites, and more winners means more pretty lineages.

 

I don't think it would be fair to bar previous winners from winning again. Partly because there are already people with multiple wins, and it wouldn't be fair if no one else had that chance. Partly because there are six different sprites to get. What if someone really wanted a shimmer but they won a tinsel? Barring them from entering again would mean they could never have a chance at the prize they actually wanted because they won one they didn't want.

[Bison]

I support increasing the number of winners each month but I don't support do anything else to limit winners or mess with the randonmess of raffles.

 

I've won twice and while I can understand why that might make some people jealous, I'd be extremely upset if the random dragons I did not choose to win prevented me from ever having the chance to win my favorite Prize - a Bronze Tinsel. I'm grateful for the Silver and Gold Tinsels I do have but if I had a choice I would never have picked a Gold one. Gold is my least favorite metal irl and it doesn't really go with my favorite mates/lineages here on DC. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and grateful that I won twice but I like that I can still hold out hope that maybe one day I'll win my favorite even if I know its unlikely.

 

The raffle is completely random and winners don't get to choose anything about it, not when they win, how often they win, or which dragon they win. I don't think its fair to possibly prevent people from having the chance to win their favorite Prize dragon just because they already got lucky once. Just imagine how you'd feel if you really hated or simply didn't like a certain Prize dragon for some reason and that was the one that you won. If you never had a chance to win another, you'd be pretty upset. That would do nothing but create a lot more drama and hurt feelings which is the last thing this game needs. Raffles are enough of a dramafest already.

 

On 5/5/2019 at 5:04 PM, Natayah said:

So totally in support, but I would also ask if you are a person where not winning Prizes upset you on a level deeper than just a passing disappointment, and it really eats at you, you have to realize there is no coding or suggestion that will ever be implemented that is going to "heal" that for you or appease that for you. That is something you will have to do personally. 

 

I hope this doesn't come off mean or harsh. You have no idea the lengths I and others go to and deeply want you all to be happy. You are all the reasons this place exists and I want you to get ALL the THINGS! I and many others have invested a lot of time in the past, and current, to try and help with that. Many of you reading this probably also do it yourself too (which is why I want you to be happy, you are fantastic people!!) I like the idea, but don't let not winning them drive you crazy.

 

Natayah's post says it really, really well. This is just a game. The way some people freak out about Prizes isn't healthy. Trying to limit other people just because of jealousy isn't going to solve a single problem or help a single person. Instead of "punishing" winners, we should try and think of random but fair ways more people can get their chance at winning a Prize. A flat increase on the number of Prizes given out is the best suggestion I've seen for that. Its simple, straightforward, and only helps people, not hurts people.

[MoonShark]

On 5/26/2019 at 3:38 PM, Bison said:

A flat increase on the number of Prizes given out is the best suggestion I've seen for that. Its simple, straightforward, and only helps people, not hurts people.

I agree, and I support this suggestion of increasing the number of prizes. I've never won one, but I love seeing their lineages. I even have a later gen who has dual Prize ancestors, which is super cool (and hopefully one day will have a mirror mate, which wouldn't be possible without more people having multiple prizes as I don't inbreed my dragons).

[Husky51]

I won one of the prized near the very start of the monthly Raffle, but never won (iirc) in any previous raffles over the years before...  However that being said and regardless of my one win, I feel that to increase the number of winners each month IMO lessens the personal worth and/or value to the winners......  I am in the raffle each month and try as much as anyone.  When I don't win one, so be it.  I just try again the next month...

Edited May 30, 2019 by Husky51
grammar

[Fuzzbucket]

Value is a thing I refuse to consider. I am tired of past winners (no individual referred to here; just a general thing that shows up in threads like this) asking for the VALUE of their prize to be maintained as high as possible. There are thousands upon thousands of players and we need the numbers raised. 

[Moonlight_Eevee]

5 hours ago, Husky51 said:

I won one of the prized near the very start of the monthly Raffle, but never won (iirc) in any previous raffles over the years before...  However that being said and regardless of my one win, I feel that to increase the number of winners each month IMO lessens the personal worth and/or value to the winners......  I am in the raffle each month and try as much as anyone.  When I don't win one, so be it.  I just try again the next month...

I have to agree with Fuzzbucket here. While a lot of players aren't online at the same time, we always have around 600~800 players on at a time. The Unofficial Discord has over 800 people and only a good handful of people only talk. So take 60 people from 800 and a good chunk of them are people who don't talk. We're lucky if one of the people who are active speaks up and mentions that they won a prize. There's still at least 59 other people who won, take it and subtract it from the forums, say about 5 people claiming they won (which would be rare now) and you still got 54 other people that won something but we don't know who they are.

 

Granted, this is just all calculated in my head but I prefer quantity at this point over quality. I'd rather see more prizes being handed out to people who want one than others who simply remain quiet and we're left wondering who won

[Fiona]

Dalek, you're inferring that people who don't speak up don't care that they won a prize. I submit that that is a false assumption. Point of fact: I won a bronze tinsel a few months ago. I said nothing. That doesn't mean I don't care about the prize. It means I don't want the public attention an announcement could bring.

 

I do agree with Fuzz's perspective. Keeping the numbers low to somehow increase the value of winners' prizes is not a particularly healthy perspective.

[HeatherMarie]

Definitely agree with Fuzz here. Honestly the whole idea sounds absurd to me; The tiny percentage of users that have CB Prizes should be able to retain their 'value' at the expense of the vast majority of users who don't have them? The very fact that we *have* monthly raffles now means that a CB Prize's 'value' has already been completely destroyed from what it once was. And every single month it's destroyed even more, with 60 new winners. Unless monthly raffles just stop altogether, I really don't think 'value' is a good reason to shoot down *any* suggestion at this point.

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Fiona said:

Dalek, you're inferring that people who don't speak up don't care that they won a prize. I submit that that is a false assumption. Point of fact: I won a bronze tinsel a few months ago. I said nothing. That doesn't mean I don't care about the prize. It means I don't want the public attention an announcement could bring.

 

I do agree with Fuzz's perspective. Keeping the numbers low to somehow increase the value of winners' prizes is not a particularly healthy perspective.

 

I would never say here that I won. NEVER. I'm with Fi - I'd breed it for myself, for trades, and for the AP/glomps. As I already do with my 2 gens.

[osean]

7 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Value is a thing I refuse to consider. I am tired of past winners (no individual referred to here; just a general thing that shows up in threads like this) asking for the VALUE of their prize to be maintained as high as possible. There are thousands upon thousands of players and we need the numbers raised. 

As a past winner, I don’t give a fig bar about the value. If I had my way I would pull an Oprah and give everyone a prize. The value for me is to have as many little prize babies as I can on my scroll no matter the lineage. I love seeing new winners lineages and would love to see many more.