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KuroYukia

Limit Raffle CBs per scroll

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I know this has been tried a few times, but many of us have yet won a raffle despite trying every month even before for the christmas raffles while others have 3 or even more raffle winnings. My suggestion is either limitcap them like with holidays, or make them ineligible for the time being.

 

EDIT

I understand TJ said it would be pointless to do something like this, though capping wouldn't fix the odds it would give those whom have won the unfairness of trying to win multiplies. I know people who have quit playing over the raffles because of jealously of not winning yet month after month. There's 60 in total every month so giving not many are actually playing, it shouldn't take long, and make new players unable for a month or more to limit multiscrollers

Edited by KuroYukia

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I'm of two minds on this because while I am horribly jealous of those that have one even one prize, and doubly so those that have won multiple, I also like Pureblood prize lines. I'm not sure if there's a solution in my case. Maybe when someone wins a second+ raffle there's a bonus winner that gets the same color/version they did? So that there's still 60 winners that didn't have any before, but allowing pureblood prizes to exist. But I doubt TJ would go for something like that in a million years.

Edited by Tinibree

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I wouldn't mind a limit like CB holidays - 2 of each type. Two bronze tins, two bronze shims, etc. Total of 12.

 

I've won my least favorite prize (a bronze tin) and would honestly love to win my favorite (a silver). I'd hate to be limited to the point where I could never win a silver.

 

But honestly TJ has said before limiting past winners is completely pointless. It does not appreciatively raise anyone's chances (like statistically it makes no difference). It feels like it should, but it doesn't. All it would do is assuage the feeling of jealously without actually changing anything.

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20 minutes ago, Kaini said:

I wouldn't mind a limit like CB holidays - 2 of each type. Two bronze tins, two bronze shims, etc. Total of 12.

 

I've won my least favorite prize (a bronze tin) and would honestly love to win my favorite (a silver). I'd hate to be limited to the point where I could never win a silver.

 

But honestly TJ has said before limiting past winners is completely pointless. It does not appreciatively raise anyone's chances (like statistically it makes no difference). It feels like it should, but it doesn't. All it would do is assuage the feeling of jealously without actually changing anything.

 

It's not really a forever suggestion, and limiting to like 2 tinsel or 2 shimmers for a time being so prizes get sorted out would be a good idea.

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I think I agree with Kaini. I was incredibly lucky and somehow won a Silver Tinsel last fall after entering every single month since the first raffle. But...I have always loved Silver Shimmers. Should I not be allowed to ever own my favorite dragon because it makes someone else upset? I totally understand wanting to cap the number of CB Prizes per scroll when it seems like there aren't enough new winners, but look at it this way: x person is really lucky and won the lottery three times. You have not won at all. Does that mean the other person should lose their "extra" lottery winnings just because you didn't win? It certainly wouldn't be fair to allow them to keep the money because they will always have more than others, so they end up being punished for getting lucky. Yet your own chances of winning the lottery are never raised.

 

Unless TJ can get an official count on CBs per scroll, I think it might be too late to put a fair limit in place that will not have special exceptions. I would rather see the chance of winning decreased for past winners or a cooldown period. After all, it is a totally random lottery that is meant to be inclusive to all players. Unfortunately some will just never win. 

Edited by The Dragoness

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You can read up what was discussed on this topic here, btw.

 

2 hours ago, KuroYukia said:

limit multiscrollers

Since CB Prizes aren't tradable, I fail to see where multiscrollers would play any role in this ...

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Nope. It's RANDOM. This suggestion would stop it being. And as TJ said - it would make no appreciable difference (I have entered every time and never won, so I'm not a winner wanting more !) You couldn't even have a decreased chance for past winners and keep it random. Random sucks - it always bypasses me (IRL too) but any tweak makes it not random. And random is fair to everyone - even including past winners. Just like every lottery on this earth. (I have never won one of those either, and only two small charity raffles - think a CD and a box of candy - in all my 74 years in this world.)

 

And yes - what Ruby said too. This is one case where multiscrolling has nothing to do with anything.

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51 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Since CB Prizes aren't tradable, I fail to see where multiscrollers would play any role in this ...

But offsprings are tradeable... chuck few to other scrolls and get more profit with 3rd gens by having more room.

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2 gens are NOT that hard to come by these days. I still don't support anything that takes away the randomness. I WOULD support having them in the store and costing a SHEDLOAD of shards :)

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I support a limit of 1 of each color per scroll to even the odds out, but, frankly, raffle is a really negative impact on the game of collecting and is causing people to leave, I would much rather see prizes being introduced to the market, that way people could save for 6 months, 9 months, but get their prize for the effort and persistence, I dont see why not, and if raffle needs to exist, introduce the option of choosing between prizes and cb alts/hybrids etc, that way raffle winners could still get a special dragon.I dont understand why wouldnt TJ introduce that option, everybody would be happy with it

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Is there any actual demonstrable evidence - other than Chinese-whispers hearsay and a couple of personal mates perhaps - that people are leaving over the raffle ? I know many who are cross about it - and I know two people who have left over something else entirely. It would be very SILLY to leave over something which, when all's said and done,  is a small part of a huge game.

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39 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Is there any actual demonstrable evidence - other than Chinese-whispers hearsay and a couple of personal mates perhaps - that people are leaving over the raffle ? I know many who are cross about it - and I know two people who have left over something else entirely. It would be very SILLY to leave over something which, when all's said and done,  is a small part of a huge game.

To be quite frank, I was close. So close. But then, all my effort on collecting dragons for years would have been wasted, so...

I still hate raffles with a passion.

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RNG is NOT random, its a computer algorithm and computers do not do random. RNG's are an equation that simulates random... which means its not truly random unless it has a truly random external factor involved (random.org uses outside weather). In fact, many RNG's are known to either "clump" or "band" winners, meaning that statistically, there are some people who are more likely to win than others, because the RNG is NOT truly random. 

 

Given that, and given that the point of the raffle was to spread out prizes, I'd boost the odds for scrolls that have not won a prize. So give a person with 0 prizes 4 tickets, and those with 1 or more 1 ticket. That weighs it heavily in favor of the first prize, but once you have one, you are on a level playing field with all the other multi-winners. 

 

That way, everyone still has a chance to win every raffle, but it increases the odds of those who have not had any at all getting one. 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

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Personally, I still think the best way to alleviate all the frustration coming from the raffle is to add Prizes to the market. It's just as equal as the raffle, yet doesn't come with the drawback of having to depend on luck, instead focusing on your personal choices (what you spend your shards on).

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As much as I feel for those that haven't won, TJ has already shot down Market prizes currently and I can see why. Most only just hit Gold price and have given up those shards, so we know the Market shouldn't crash during a mass-buy, just up the egg's price by a few hundred in the weeks after. Until we hit that, TJ didn't want to suddenly add something even rarer. Now that we've hit one of the more expensive things there, perhaps it could be considered again.

 

The raffle has (I believe) always been the only way to get CB Tinsels and CB Shimmerscales. The RNG aspect sucks and yes, it will always seem to favor certain people over others. I wish it could be tweaked so that those who haven't won would have a greater chance but I don't see how TJ could do that without it losing the "fair" rng aspect and somebody inevitably complaining that now it's even more unfair to them somehow.

 

Multiscrollers really have no place in this argument, honestly. Even if one did enter and somehow win across two or more scrolls, they could only trade the 2gs to themselves. And trading the 3gs afterward wouldn't net them as much. A 3g, unless someone is really gunning for it, doesn't hold as much value as a 2g does.

 

I can understand the jealousy of having nothing and then suddenly seeing somebody waltzing on through with two or three CB prizes under their belt. I was happy when I won one and have wanted another since. Will it happen? Probably not, rng generally hates me. glares at her 2-year streak of zero GoNs But I still enter every month, hoping and praying I do win again. Will I? Probably not...but I definitely won't win if I never enter. The constant failure sucks but...until there's a better way, it's the only thing I can do.

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6 minutes ago, animatedrose said:

Multiscrollers really have no place in this argument, honestly. Even if one did enter and somehow win across two or more scrolls, they could only trade the 2gs to themselves. And trading the 3gs afterward wouldn't net them as much. A 3g, unless someone is really gunning for it, doesn't hold as much value as a 2g does.

Actually, if I had multiple scrolls (which I don't) and won with several (I haven't even won once), I'd trade the 2nd gens away and keep the spoils on the scroll I'd consider my main. So, in fact, the raffle does make rule-breaking lucrative if you're lucky enough.

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Reducing the chances at multiple wins wouldn't reduce multiscrolling though, nor would it remove any advantage that multiscrollers have over honest players.

If they can't win multiple times with one or two scrolls, what would stop them from just making a dozen scrolls and entering the raffle with those? Wouldn't such a limit rather *encourage* multiscrolling? Even if you'd disallow new scrolls entering for a few months - at some point, they'd be "old" enough to enter either way.

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And I don't think it's fair to disallow newer scrolls to not be able to enter on the off chance that they're multiscrollers... On the otherhand, if they're new, they probably won't know about the raffle anyway, I certainly didn't know about the descriptions until I'd been here for 3 years already. 

 

I'd much rather see the prize dragons hit the market rather than users be limited to a certain number, or changing the ratios of chance, even if it is just the rng chance. At least then, even those who have multiple already still have to work as hard as somebody who has none to get more, and every one has an equal chance of getting it. This would mean that even those who do multiscroll would have to try harder to get one, and the values of 2nd gens will decrease as a wider pool of people get my cbs. But that is completely different suggestion, so I'll leave it there.

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1 hour ago, olympe said:

Personally, I still think the best way to alleviate all the frustration coming from the raffle is to add Prizes to the market. It's just as equal as the raffle, yet doesn't come with the drawback of having to depend on luck, instead focusing on your personal choices (what you spend your shards on).

 

This, very much.

 

33 minutes ago, cerimonster said:

And I don't think it's fair to disallow newer scrolls to not be able to enter on the off chance that they're multiscrollers... On the otherhand, if they're new, they probably won't know about the raffle anyway, I certainly didn't know about the descriptions until I'd been here for 3 years already. 

 

I'd much rather see the prize dragons hit the market rather than users be limited to a certain number, or changing the ratios of chance, even if it is just the rng chance. At least then, even those who have multiple already still have to work as hard as somebody who has none to get more, and every one has an equal chance of getting it. This would mean that even those who do multiscroll would have to try harder to get one, and the values of 2nd gens will decrease as a wider pool of people get my cbs. But that is completely different suggestion, so I'll leave it there.

 

Also this. And I don't CARE about "value" - I just want to be able to build lineages.

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53 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Reducing the chances at multiple wins wouldn't reduce multiscrolling though, nor would it remove any advantage that multiscrollers have over honest players.

If they can't win multiple times with one or two scrolls, what would stop them from just making a dozen scrolls and entering the raffle with those? Wouldn't such a limit rather *encourage* multiscrolling? Even if you'd disallow new scrolls entering for a few months - at some point, they'd be "old" enough to enter either way.

Possible solution: Only allow 1 raffle entry per IP?

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Nope - families with children who play, for instance. Flat-sharers. Never mind people in school and so on, who use a moving IP. And heck - I could go to Starbucks and use theirs.

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While I have not won and likely will not any time soon, and I would love to see CB prizes in the market, I find the current arrangement acceptable.

 

I will also argue the "RNG is not random" point because that's blatantly false and depends on how said RNG works. If it's simply picking a number between 1-1000 (for the sake of argument) and assigning the winner based on that number (especially if the numbers are randomized or in order of entry-- we have no way of knowing) then yes, it's random. There IS such a thing as a truly random number generator.

 

I also do not find multiscrollers to have any real place in this conversation. 2G prizes and prizekin are becoming increasingly easier to get; it seems they've been knocked off the top-tier trading pedestal by 2G Spriter's Alts. The profits one would get with a 2G prize dwindle with every raffle.

 

The ONLY way I can see (and accept) a CB limit per scroll is 2+ CBs PER COLOR AND PER TYPE. So 12 total CBs. Even 2 is iffy though; I'd rather treat it like GoNs where you get three. Of the options put forth here, the only one I can wholly support is the Market one, but I will also grudgingly accept weighing the odds in favor of those who haven't won (but not in a 4:1 ratio, that's... actually way too steep for a raffle imo. More like 2:1.)

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6 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

You can read up what was discussed on this topic here, btw.

 

Since CB Prizes aren't tradable, I fail to see where multiscrollers would play any role in this ...

They can, because multiscrollers have anywhere from 2 to hundreds of chances to win a prize. although they cannot trade the prize to their base scroll, they can breed that dragon, and trade for rares, then the trades they get to their base scroll and gain a power advantage in things like CB rares, or neglecteds.

 

To limit or cut off players who have won prizes in the past is pointless, and screams of petty jealousy. To win, its random chance - recently I won 3 times in a 4 hour stream I had watched (which at that point was embarassing, but I gave my last winnings to a friend who was unable to participate at the time.

 

The point is, it would be unfair to limit it. The distributions may seam unfair that, lets say bob got two, while Zed got one and Jo got none. but they all had an equal chance to win - 1 entry -  1 chance. I fully understand the frustration of not winning.

 

I could possibly see a the 12 per scroll -  (2 of each colour for pairing sake) But i am on the fence with that.

 

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This topic has been beaten to death by now. I *really really really* want a better way to get Prizes, a more *realistic* way to get Prizes in a *realistic* amount of time (Market....), but this isn't the way to go. TJ already said it would make no real difference, statistically. This limit wouldn't *do* anything to *change* anything in the long run, except alleviate some people's jealousy. And frankly that's not something the game needs to concern itself with. 

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Since CB Prizes are not tradeable (although I do believe they can still be abandoned) the value of the Prize is not in itself, but in its offspring.

 

Hence - unless TJ uses some detection I don't know about - people who are cheating with multiple accounts do have an unfair advantage to win the raffle.  If you suspect someone is cheating, please PM a mod and we can look into it.

 

I know of a few users who have won more than once.  It's precisely because of RNG that such events do occasionally occur.  Random doesn't mean evenly spaced.

 

Personally I would not be averse to other (difficult!) ways to contain CB Prizes through grinding, but keeping the raffle so that lucky folks wouldn't have to put in the effort of obtaining one manually.

Edited by LadyLyzar

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