ANSWERED:Forum: Smiley adjustment (minor)

[sakana]

I was going to come in here and support this anyway just because of formatting for longer form stuff - 8 ) comes to mind as a big one in numbered lists, for example - but seeing the issues people have with different devices displaying emoji differently just cements it for me. If you want to intentionally insert emoji, cool, but let's not change what people are typing automatically. Back in the BBS code days where emoji were not characters but rather image files that loaded when you typed in a specific series of characters, this made sense. Nowadays with emoji becoming standardized (kinda) it just doesn't make sense, because instead of everyone seeing the same 🙂 when I type ( :, there are a bunch of different smiley face images you might see depending on platform.

[TJ09]

The forum provides the option of overriding device-default emoji with one of the more common icon sets (e.g. 😀 vs vs ), but IMO it's best to show people the same emoji that they see in every other app/program on their phone/computer.

 

Turning off emoji will presumably still leave the default emoticons around, and if ): stops turning into an emoji (😞) it'll likely start falling back to the emoticon () instead.

[Fuzzbucket]

So please please please can you turn off the emojis. We are all seeing different stuff from them, and they add NOTHING to the site. The emoticons we had were plenty.

 

) :  DOESN'T turn into  though - never did.

 

and I see a box in place of the first one of those three you showed in parentheses anyway. I tested my mobile (Android Nougat) and it shows the nasty ones I posted too.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

So please please please can you turn off the emojis. We are all seeing different stuff from them, and they add NOTHING to the site. The emoticons we had were plenty.

 

) :  DOESN'T turn into  though - never did.

 

and I see a box in place of the first one of those three you showed in parentheses anyway. I tested my mobile (Android Nougat) and it shows the nasty ones I posted too.

 

 : ( does however turn into  !

 

But yes, I absolutely support turning off emojis. Just from what TJ posted, those three smileys look quite different to me, and the default Apple one:

looks hideous, as though it’s smiling out of spite or holding a grimace. Tbh, it can make sweet sentiments look really bitter to me, so can definitely contribute to miscommunication for me!

 

(Also sorry if that picture is really big, I’m on mobile so I don’t know!)

[Ruby Eyes]

But that's what : ( is for. THAT is what should turn, NOT ) :

[Fuzzbucket]

What she said. That was EXACTLY what I both said and meant

[Shokomon]

On 1/14/2019 at 9:37 PM, TJ09 said:

The forum provides the option of overriding device-default emoji with one of the more common icon sets (e.g. 😀 vs vs ), but IMO it's best to show people the same emoji that they see in every other app/program on their phone/computer.

 

Turning off emoji will presumably still leave the default emoticons around, and if 😞 stops turning into an emoji (😞) it'll likely start falling back to the emoticon () instead.

Just to clarify,

 

So, if the new emojis are turned off, are you saying "):" will stop turning into 😞 and stay "):" OR will  "):" will stop turning into 😞 and both ":(" and "):" turn into ? 

 

That sentence is so odd to look at. 

 

On a side note, all three of those default smileys look different on my phone vs my computer:

- Computer: 

- Phone: 

Edit: Nevermind. It's just the first one.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Shokomon

[TJ09]

1 hour ago, Shokomon said:

will  "):" will stop turning into 😞 and both ":(" and "):" turn into ? 

Presumably this one.

[SkyWolf25]

Not the best outcome, but certainly better than current circumstances, I think.

[StormWizard212]

3 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Presumably this one.

 

Is it possible to try it out and see? At any rate, I'd prefer sticking with just the default emoticons than having emojis as well. 

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Presumably this one.

 

Is that because of the added invision emojis ? Anyway - I agree with Stormwizard. Better that than the ghastly emojis. It's almost unsafe to use parentheses now.

 

Tested on three other forums and ) : does not convert into anything...

 

Geez - here's a page showing all the variants we might see:

 

https://emojipedia.org/smiling-face-with-open-mouth/

 

Mine are the black and white ones.... But honestly - this  says to me something a lot different from this: 

 

But depending what system you are in, that's what : and D give you.... (or, it seems, :smiley:)

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[TJ09]

15 hours ago, SkyWolf25 said:

Not the best outcome, but certainly better than current circumstances, I think.

I disagree, and find emoji to be way more expressive than the forum ones. They're also supported just about everywhere nowadays, and trying to ignore them is not going to be sustainable.

[Tears in Rain]

One of the issues I see with emojis is that everyone sees them differently depending on the device/OS! And the different versions of the same smiley/code can therefore create different impressions to readers of a given post, that kinda defeats the purpose imo.

 

On a more irrelevant note, I find emojis hideous tbw, they're annoying  And don't really feel "DC". In the past I was glad that at least Dragon Cave was free of that cancer, lol!

Personally I'd be glad if they were removed altogether and only the original set of emoticons were to stay. But yeah  

Edited January 17, 2019 by Tears in Rain

[purplehaze]

56 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

I disagree, and find emoji to be way more expressive than the forum ones. They're also supported just about everywhere nowadays, and trying to ignore them is not going to be sustainable.

And I disagree. They are ugly and don't really express anything that I want to say. Just because "everybody else does it" doesn't mean we need them here.

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, TJ09 said:

I disagree, and find emoji to be way more expressive than the forum ones. They're also supported just about everywhere nowadays, and trying to ignore them is not going to be sustainable.

 

I disagree very much - and unless you can find a way to make them look the same for everyone, they are NOT expressive at all, as each of us gets a quite different impression, as I said further up. 

 

This  says something a lot different from this: 

 

The second is almost aggressive. I guess I'm lucky - at least I don't have to see then looking like that.

 

TJ - you seem to be the only one in this thread who thinks they are OK. We are your forum users. Does that count for nothing just because you think they are "more expressive" ? Maybe we can't ignore them on sites like whatsapp - but we surely don't have to see them here. This is the only forum I go to where they show up as routine. It has suddenly become a much less appealing place to look at. Thank goodness something in what I am using doesn't show them unless I deliberately go copy images.

 

And as the OP and others have said - it plays merry hell with a lot of posts.

 

If you look at the invision forums, you will see MANY site owners are complaining about them.

[Dracaena]

13 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Is that because of the added invision emojis ? Anyway - I agree with Stormwizard. Better that than the ghastly emojis. It's almost unsafe to use parentheses now.

 

Tested on three other forums and ) : does not convert into anything...

 

Geez - here's a page showing all the variants we might see:

 

https://emojipedia.org/smiling-face-with-open-mouth/

 

Mine are the black and white ones.... But honestly - this  says to me something a lot different from this: 

 

But depending what system you are in, that's what : and D give you.... (or, it seems, :smiley:)

 

I opened that link and think I might realize now why with sprite updates when we say the expression of the dragon has changed (example - tilt of head) the spriters seem mystified.  If there is this much variation for a single smilie no wonder people just don't get it.  I clicked at random on the emojipedia list at beaming face with smiling eyes, it comes with a warning flag  "Appearance differs greatly cross-platform.  Use with caution."  I think I'm very glad I only get the tiny black and white things I can't make out or a box.  But random boxes across the forum aren't an improvement for the forum!

[Marrionetta]

Fuzz, I am also a forum user and I also like emoji’s expressive range and cohesiveness in all apps across your device. The crux of your argument is simply that everyone feels the same way you do, and that’s inaccurate.

 

The digital world is changing; emoji allows conversation across language barriers and is a surprisingly nuanced pictographic tool. Reverting to emoticons is denying ourselves the opportunity to grow and change with digital mediums.

 

Maybe remove emoticon in favor of emoji only? I love me some consistency.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Marrionetta
Spelling errors

[hazeh]

*raises hand* I actually quite like that we have so many to choose from, old and new. I don't see why we need to get rid of them. Maybe the automatic change if that can be prevented, but I think it's better to have all options available.

Also, I don't know that TJ is capable of making them look all the same? That's usually a device thing, not the forums.  

[Sunfeathers]

Could we please get the option to not have text smilies autotransform at all? I do like the emoji smilies better than the default forum ones but it still feels incredibly patronizing to have my "c:" turn into 😄. I know what I'm doing and if I wanted a picture I would have put one, thank you very much. The new forum software really thinks it knows best in general, and personally I think the smilies are the most annoying example.

[SkyWolf25]

Oh, I thought 'removing emojis' meant it would be removing them only from the auto-replacing fodder, not the entire emoji section.

In that case, would a 'turn off auto-emojis' option not be possible instead? 

[Shokomon]

The biggest problem relevant to this thread is that "):" transforms when it's not needed, and apparently removing the emojis won't solve the problem. 

 

Because of the transformation, you can't use a statement like this: 

Aurax (Gold Moon): Waning Gibbous; Aurax is expected to stay more than 50% illuminated!

Cirion (Blue Moon): Waning Gibbous; Cirion is expected to stay more than 50% illuminated!

without it becoming this:

Quote

Aurax (Gold Moon😞 Waning Gibbous; Aurax is expected to stay more than 50% illuminated!

Cirion (Blue Moon😞 Waning Gibbous; Cirion is expected to stay more than 50% illuminated!

 

So, how do we fix this?

[Fuzzbucket]

14 hours ago, Marrionetta said:

Fuzz, I am also a forum user and I also like emoji’s expressive range and cohesiveness in all apps across your device. The crux of your argument is simply that everyone feels the same way you do, and that’s inaccurate.

 

The digital world is changing; emoji allows conversation across language barriers and is a surprisingly nuanced pictographic tool. Reverting to emoticons is denying ourselves the opportunity to grow and change with digital mediums.

 

Maybe remove emoticon in favor of emoji only? I love me some consistency.

 

NO - I am resigned to the changes (though I think digital media should grow with us, not the other way around.) One big thing, though, is that people cannot now post what they want to without the emojis taking over. I think pretty much everyone in this thread objects to that and wants the ability to prevent it. Look at shokomon's post above.  And the OP's, as well. There should be a way to override it where we need to.

 

BUT - you have totally missed my main point. I can avoid using them - BUT:

 

Quote

 

I also like emoji’s expressive range and cohesiveness in all apps across your device.

 

 

The point is that they are not consistent across devices. Not at all.

Post : followed by D, using emojis. I will see this:  😃 others will see this,   and yet others this: 

 

(I hope that shows three completely different emojis.)

 

I would never want to "say" the last one; I think the second is a bit icky, and I would PREFER to say   and for everyone I said it to to see it like that.

 

If we lost the emoticons I wouldn't use anything. I would find an image on line and use that when I needed one. I want people to see the image (that is after all what they are) I intended to post, NOT the one their device chooses to use. SO if we end up going emojis only, can we please also have the option (as I have on most forums I go to) the option to turn them off. That would be such a help to people who like to use parentheses a lot for actual TEXT !

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[DragonLady86]

I've hated emoji since they came into being. emoticon are at least consistent and everyone sees what you typed.  but since I can't stop them from taking over everything, I would be happy if they just didn't change automatically.  If I want to type :3  then that's what I want, If want a picture, I know how to use the drop down to get the one I actually wanted.  (though we've got so gosh-darned many now, even that is more work than it's worth.)

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

21 hours ago, TJ09 said:

I disagree, and find emoji to be way more expressive than the forum ones. They're also supported just about everywhere nowadays, and trying to ignore them is not going to be sustainable.

 

Regardless of whether we find emojis to be better or worse, I still absolutely think they should be optional. If people want to show a certain emotion, then of course emojis are good for that, but having ) : become 😞 by default is kinda inexcusable when people are just trying to format posts. If there’s a way to turn it off I, and I’m sure many others, would be so so thankful.

[Cinspawn]

I don't know how to solve the different-emoji-across-platforms thing (nor do I know if it HAS to be solved... I mean, literally every emoji OR emoticon can be interpreted in a different way, so I try to not assume someone means malice with their choice (or lack) of emoticons/emoji)

 

But I do agree that the ) : auto-correcting to 😞 should be turned off, if possible. It's very annoying when you want to format something and suddenly an emoji jumps into your post.

 

6 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

I've hated emoji since they came into being. emoticon are at least consistent and everyone sees what you typed.  but since I can't stop them from taking over everything, I would be happy if they just didn't change automatically.  If I want to type :3  then that's what I want, If want a picture, I know how to use the drop down to get the one I actually wanted.  (though we've got so gosh-darned many now, even that is more work than it's worth.)

Just so you know, you can type a colon and then 'search' for keywords to find an emoji. You might have to learn the keywords of your favourite emoji, but it might be a lot faster. For example, typing :smil gives me a list of most (all?) smiling emoji. But it doesn't work as well for example ":sad:". You'd need ":frown:" or something similar.