Posted May 29, 2016 I don't think we'd need to get too crazy with new biome ideas—but there are definitely a few gaps that could be filled with new habitats. Foremost is grassland, wetland, and tundra. A grassland isn't really included anywhere in our current biomes system. The closest would probably be desert, but creatures suited for temperate grassland climates typically wouldn't be found in deserts as well. Wetlands would be a good addition because of their freshwater, so not all aquatic dragons are automatically sent to the coast (or jungle, for some reason). And a tundra would be great for cold dragons, since not all mountains have snow… all snow-loving dragons don't have to be shoved to mountain peaks. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) Well, there's a lot of biomes that would make sense, and I once even started going through the completed list to see which kinds of dragons could go where - not to mention existing dragons. And, well, some kinds of biomes stood out, as there were quite a lot of breeds that would fit in there if their makers don't disagree. Wetlands: Contains everything from freshwater lakes to swamps to big streams. Grasslands: Savannah, Meadow, Prairie and Steppe all rolled into one. You all know that a lot of our Forest and Jungle dragons would like it there. And it's not just Horses. Cave: Yeah, right. It might need a different name to distinguish it from the old "cave" designation, but there are quite a few breeds that live in caves or even far underground. Maybe call it Underground instead? Skylands: Them, too. As described by a lot of other people. Ocean: From near the surface to the deepest sea trenches. Of course, there's some overlap with Coast, and the Coast will get empty pretty quickly if we get both an Ocean and a Wetlands biome - so maybe split the Coast into Ocean (including beaches and other sea shores) and Wetlands (strictly fresh water). Frozen Lands: Everything from Tundra to polar regions. Lots of snow, little warmth. There's one problem, though: How many breeds will be taken from Alpine to fill this biome?[/b] Another idea that might or might not become a thing, depending on what kinds of breeds we'll get: Wastelands: Lands ravaged by magic gone rogue, almost devoid of life - save for some odd plants and creatures that are more deadly than anything known from other places.[/b] Edited May 29, 2016 by olympe Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 For me I would love to see the current alpine turn into a "cold" habitat and for all the altitude dragons have a sky habitat.... Accessed by all the other habitats. "You see a mountain disappearing into the clouds.... is that a path going up?" (So similar to the alpine now) But IMO, we really need a freshwater biome: - Undine - water dragon (says in the description they live in LAKES) - blue banded - Striped River - Flamingo - Water Walkers - Xenowyrm (Thalassa)? - Waterhorse? Plus the countless fish inspired themes... And all the dragons that also enjoy preying of fishes... Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 Frozen Lands: Everything from Tundra to polar regions. Lots of snow, little warmth. There's one problem, though: How many breeds will be taken from Alpine to fill this biome? You know, there is no need to move breeds. I mean, the frostbite can live in the frozen land and the alpine biomes, so there will be very few breeds moving from one biome to another, if at all. Though I would prefer tundra over frozen land, no need to generalize. The wasteland biome sounds very cool BTW. And the underground biome sounds like a nice substitute for the cave. For me I would love to see the current alpine turn into a "cold" habitat and for all the altitude dragons have a sky habitat.... Accessed by all the other habitats. "You see a mountain disappearing into the clouds.... is that a path going up?" (So similar to the alpine now) But IMO, we really need a freshwater biome: - Undine - water dragon (says in the description they live in LAKES) - blue banded - Striped River - Flamingo - Water Walkers - Xenowyrm (Thalassa)? - Waterhorse? Plus the countless fish inspired themes... And all the dragons that also enjoy preying of fishes... I disagree on eliminating (or transforming into a "cold" biome) the alpine biome to give enter to the sky biome. One is a cold mountain the other is either floating chunks of rocks (or floating islands) or magical clouds that can carry objects. If anything it can be transformed into "mountain" biome a less cold version, and then add the "cold" biome. About the water-dwelling creatures, I think the thalassa would be a coast/ocean breed, seeing it is linked to large amounts of water mana, where better than in the largest bodies of water? The waterhorse encyclopedia page claims it can survive on "clean" or salty water, so it fits for both coast/ocean and wetlands/freshwater. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) Well, I didn't intend to completely eliminate any biome - but in some cases, it might be a good idea to move a breed - or at least put it in a new biome while still keeping it in its current one. Or moving them over a long period of time, maybe one year or so. Whichever. ETA: I found my old file on possible dragon habitats - I actually got through the letter G. At least it gives you an idea of what I found so far. Links are included. Please don't assume that I'm shoving anybody's dragons anywhere, these are just suggestions based on the adult descriptions and/or additional information. I also added some of the in-cave breeds where one of my proposed biomes seemed an obvious choice, once again based on official information. What I didn't take into account was the encyclopedia, though. Underground / Cavern Biome in-cave breeds: bleeding moon, ember, stone, pebble, red Argent Bat Artistic (multi-biome) Blackray Lindwurm Blind Cascade Dancer (aquatic) Crystal Song Deathbringer Deep Cave Earthwyrm (maybe?) Wetland Biome (rivers, lakes and their shores) in-cave breeds: blue-banded, water, striped river, undine, water horse (?), skywing (eggs are laid in water, hatchlings live there, too), water walker Aposematic Water Bichir Catkin (land-dweller) Cleaner Pygmy (water) Diver Drakes (also Canyon) Drapewing Fisher Drake Giant Pygmy (lots of bugs there... multi-biome) Goldenscale Eastern Grace (multi-biome) Skyland Biome in-cave breeds: skywing, nebula, ridgewing, celestial, daydream Aero Ambrosial Cloud Weaver Empyrean Dolphin-Drake Giant Pygmy (multi-biome) Grassland / Plains Biome in-cave breeds: horse, anagallis, dorsal, moonstone, red, terrae, whiptail Assassino Backflip Bane (multi-biome) Biped Briar ? Bull Wyvern ? Charcoal (several biomes apply; not available in winter?) Cleaner Pygmy (land) Daedalean ? Dewdrop (also Farmland) Easther Thistle Firebelly Great Maned Farmland Biome (pastures, fields and small villages) => assigned breeds could be used for Grasslands instead in-cave breeds: harvest Bane (multi-biome) Black Shuck Black Tri (multi-biome) Cherry Drakes Cleaner Pygmy (land) Corn Wyrm Dewdrop (also grassland) Fair (seems to fit) Four-Winged garden, any Tundra / Frostlands Biome in-cave breeds: ice, frostbite, pillow, nebula (good view of the stars...) Arctic Bat Arctic Fox Artistic (multi-biome) Auroral Flareback Boreal Cleaner Pygmy (land) Frostbite Wyrm Glacier (also alpine) Swamp Biome => Could be merged with Wetlands Biome in-cave breeds: water walker Artistic (multi-biome) Bog Lich Catkin Cleaner Pygmy (water + land?) Drapewing (Maybe. Also Wetlands.) Ethereal Drakes Wastelands Biome in-cave breeds: brute (?), cassare (?) Akuma Artistic (multi-biome) Battle Black Tri (multi-biome) Dark Weaver Demonic Canyon / Cliffs BiomeCliffhopper Diver Drake (also Wetlands) Frigate Wyvern Ocean isn't included here because I have yet to get to those fish-based dragons all around. Edited May 29, 2016 by olympe Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) I think I'd go with: underground (with caves as entrances; good for cave lurkers and ground burrowers) grassland (relatively plain area with lots of wild grass, or a savannah) arctic or tundra (cold area) and maybe some sweet water biome with lakes and rivers, BUT maybe this one could be merged with the grasslands? Well, we definitely need to do sth to kind of split the Alpine - it has the most of breeds in-_- I guess it's mostly because it's mountains and plenty of people associate dragons with... the mountains. Also the cold-liking dragons are put there... Well, no other biome is so close to being cold after all. That's why I think the arctic/tundra is the most needed, if there was to be just 1 more biome added, I 'vote' for arctic/tundra. Edited May 29, 2016 by VixenDra Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 Oooh, thanks for the thoughtful list, Olympe! I like cavern and grassland the best. I see the potential in freshwater and tundra, too. I think canyons and wastelands are already covered enough in our existing biomes (desert / volcano) and, as you say, farmland and swamp could easily be merged with grassland / freshwater. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 Well, if certain biomes from "my" list get merged, we could have... Wetlands (everything with fresh water around - rivers, lakes and their respective shores, swamps) Grasslands (including prairie, plains, farmlands and so on) as the two really big biomes. Additionally, for flavor's sake as well as the sake of certain breeds: Cavern / Underground - anything "down there". Skylands. I really like the idea of the floating islands from the movie Avatar. Tundra / Icelands: Mostly polar and subpolar regions with lots of snow, ice, glaciers, auroras and probably a polar winter as we know it. Wasteland could be replaced with Volcano, and Canyon breeds could go wherever else they'd fit - desert, wetlands, grasslands, coast... Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) Skyland Biome in-cave breeds: skywing, nebula, ridgewing, celestial, daydream [*]Aero [*]Ambrosial [*]Cloud Weaver In addition to this, I think a sky biome would also fit neatly into a space themed biome. We have tons of space themed dragons, sunrise/sunset, day and night glory, sunsongs, nebula, and on there completed list there are even more such as: Celestial Imitators Comet Amphiptere Crescent Tailed Moonflier Diety (Sun, storm, moon) Eclipse Majestic Moon Meteor Shower Midnight Solar flare Space crystal Star crested Star dancers Stardust Being in the sky we can also have any dragons relating to weather such as: Fog Thunder Lightning Frostbite Ice Icegale Rainbow Rain Oh and one more sky related dragon: Skymaster Edited May 29, 2016 by Tango Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 Why would a sky biome really be necessary? …I mean, there's sky everywhere, why would you need a whole biome dedicated to it? I don't really get that part, even if the dragons fly all the time and are super aligned with the air element, they'd still be found flying in or over the current habitats. "Sky" itself isn't actually a biome. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 Why would a sky biome really be necessary? …I mean, there's sky everywhere, why would you need a whole biome dedicated to it? I don't really get that part, even if the dragons fly all the time and are super aligned with the air element, they'd still be found flying in or over the current habitats. "Sky" itself isn't actually a biome. Well they'd probably be floating islands, not actual sky. But this is a discussion for a new biome, and imo there are enough sky related dragons in cave and ready to be added. The problem with other biomes being suggested is that they're too similar to current biomes. Freshwater vs seawater isn't THAT much of a difference. Savannah may as well be desert. Grassland may as well be forest. The sky biome is significantly different from all current biomes and can exclusively house three very differently themed dragons: Sky, space and weather. A large chunk of dragons can be put in this biome which helps with the overcrowding. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) In addition to this, I think a sky biome would also fit neatly into a space themed biome. We have tons of space themed dragons, sunrise/sunset, day and night glory, sunsongs, nebula, and on there completed list there are even more such as: Celestial Imitators Comet Amphiptere Crescent Tailed Moonflier Diety (Sun, storm, moon) Eclipse Majestic Moon Meteor Shower Midnight Solar flare Space crystal Star crested Star dancers Stardust Being in the sky we can also have any dragons relating to weather such as: Fog Thunder Lightning Frostbite Ice Icegale Rainbow Rain Oh and one more sky related dragon: Skymaster Well, I only got to breeds starting with the letters A-H, so everything beyond that isn't on my list. I also avoided breeds that are supposed to be found in all biomes, since that would already include any new biome. I also never said that this list is complete, I may have missed some. Others weren't even there when I started the list back in 2012... Comet Amphipteres are clearly meant for forested biomes, as their description says this: Easily able to navigate the deep forests in which they prefer to dwell, these small amphipteres glide through the upper branches. Not every breed with a celestial body in their name is meant for the skyland biome, after all. Edited May 29, 2016 by olympe Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 I am spectacularly indifferent to this, as long as it doesn't slow anything down, and I don't see why it should. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 As long as one biome doesn't become more "popular" or has more rares than the others...I think I'm okay with everything. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) Well, I wonder if having more biomes wouldn't spread out the rares even thinner, making them even harder to get. Not that it would really affect me, because I can't catch them as it is. Just a thought. I really think another biome or so would be nice -- especially a prairie or grasslands. Edited May 29, 2016 by purplehaze Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) Well they'd probably be floating islands, not actual sky. But this is a discussion for a new biome, and imo there are enough sky related dragons in cave and ready to be added. The problem with other biomes being suggested is that they're too similar to current biomes. Freshwater vs seawater isn't THAT much of a difference. Savannah may as well be desert. Grassland may as well be forest. The sky biome is significantly different from all current biomes and can exclusively house three very differently themed dragons: Sky, space and weather. A large chunk of dragons can be put in this biome which helps with the overcrowding. I disagree with a lot of the points here. "Floating islands" would still be pieces of land that would conceivably match up with other biomes. Why would flying dragons even need a specific area to live, when they can already fly literally anywhere? The other biomes being discussed have been suggested specifically because we are missing habitats that really do have their differences. There is a major distinction between dragons that live deep in the open ocean, and the dragons that live in muddy swamps and marshes. Meanwhile, there is still a sky over these areas for flying dragons. Also, was overcrowding the issue people had with biomes? I never really picked up on it as a problem. I don't think that the sky is sufficiently different from other places, just because it is everywhere. Edited May 30, 2016 by Niyaka Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 I don't necessarily think we need to add a bunch of new biomes, although I kinda like the idea of another one or two maybe one day. I do really like the idea of renaming the existing ones to kinda expand what they encompass and to better represent the biome striation and offer more varieties where dragons can be placed and not completely forget very common biomes that would "make more sense for certain breeds" if they existed. That said, I think it would be a really neat idea, Lore Wise, if TJ doesn't want to add new biomes, for TJ to potentially have "larger encompassing biome names" and then break them down into "regions" or "areas" within those biomes. That way just because a dragon is found in the "Coast" right now doesn't mean it seems to limit itself to saltwater oceanic breeds. With a change of name to "Waterways and Costal" or something, we could have freshwater and saltwater. And I know some people are like "Why would I even care?" Some dragon creators/concepters probably care, and some people who are really into dragon lore and information and background care. It also makes the DC World (I always forget how to spell Valkmere) deeper, more interesting, and more variety. So while some of these suggestions may not be implemented as a coded design, they could be a subsection of an existing (although renamed) Biome and that would provide a lot of the same objectives I think. I still know many people would like an extra biome or so. But that adds the depth that allows for more design of dragon lore, dragon background, dragon descriptions, world building, etc. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) Also, was overcrowding the issue people had with biomes? I'm aware that there's a suggestion about adding a biome but, according to that suggestion, the access was to be restricted to users with specific trophies or the like. What I'm suggesting here is different: the additional biomes could be accessed by every user. The existing biomes were introduced, according to the wiki, five years ago. In the last five years the number of breeds increased significantly and we can reasonably expect that will continue. It is becoming progressively harder and harder to find a specific egg in the biomes, even if it is not a rare. Conclusion: I would like to suggest at least two (maybe even 5) additional habitats. Suggestions for what they should be? Following this: We do have: - Marine (= Coast) - Desert - Forest (Jungle is a subset) We partially have Tundra (Alpine) but not Arctic Tundra. We do not have: - Freshwater - Ponds and lakes, streams and rivers, wetlands. - Grassland - Tropical (savannas) and Temperate - includes Prairies & Great Plains - ideal for Horses , could become the ideal habitat for Big Cat inspired Dragons Actually that was exactly the reason why I started the topic that ended queued to the previous one. ETA: The motivation got lost on the merger. Thanks to SockPuppet Strangler for re-adding the motivation. Edited May 30, 2016 by NotBambi Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) I'm quite supportive of adding biomes! I have several dragon ideas that would work well in biomes that don't exist in DC yet; to name one right off the bat, my Rankbreaker Dragons live almost exclusively within prairies and savannas, but since we don't have such a biome I had to improvise. (If I'm remembering right, I think I put them in Desert and Forest, with the logic that some deserts aren't sand dunes and forests have meadows?) One of my other ideas (the Soulcast Lindwurm) is unfinished, but should I finish it the dragons would only be found deep within caves; my best bet there is Alpine, maybe Volcano or even all biomes. It feels oddly incomplete. If I had to vote for a first biome to be added in, I would choose Plains/Prairie/Steppe/Grasslands/Savanna/whatever it would be first. A Marshland, Quagmire, or Swamp would come second. We could use an Arctic/Icecap/Glacial/Tundra type biome as well, but looking at the map of Valkemare... well, we just had a map update, and I don't know where we would put an entire tundra on the map as it is, so I don't know how we could do that? Maybe in some far-off, future map update (lore reasoning; dragon tamers explored further out) there will be room? Coming up fourth would be an Underground/Subterranean/Cavern biome (maybe we could call it "Undergarden"? ); it could bring up a bunch of creative ideas for exclusively-cave-dwelling dragons. Concerning the sky biome, I can see how it's a bit odd but it would add a nice touch of surrealism to DC. Instead of calling it "Sky" though I would call it "Floating Islands" or something of the sort; maybe it's out in the ocean or above a huge chasm in the earth, which is why it's particularly notable? That way there isn't as much of a problem concerning "why have a sky biome when the sky is everywhere"; instead it could be reasoned that it's an isolated region, and some dragons simply chose to adapt to that environment despite it just being "floating version of <X>". Edited May 30, 2016 by skwerl56767 Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) I support adding biomes, possibly two or three, giving priority to grasslands and freshwaters. On the unrealistic side, I would love also a magic biome maybe Asphodel Meadows or Tartarus or Mag Mell or Tir na nÓg or Irkalla or Hel (underworlds/afterworlds). The discussion about the Sky made me think of the perfect city of Cloud cuckoo land. Edited May 30, 2016 by SullenCat Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 I support adding biomes, possibly two or three, giving priority to grasslands and freshwaters. On the unrealistic side, I would love also a magic biome maybe Asphodel Meadows or Tartarus or Mag Mell or Tir na nÓgor Irkalla or Hel (underworlds/afterworlds). The discussion about the Sky made me think of the perfect city of Cloud cuckoo land. In that regard, I was quite fond of the Wastelands idea some people had, where magic ran amok to the point of poisoning the land. Since I don't actually live in this world, a place like that seems romantic in a desolate way, like a harsh desert x100. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) I disagree on eliminating (or transforming into a "cold" biome) the alpine biome to give enter to the sky biome. One is a cold mountain the other is either floating chunks of rocks (or floating islands) or magical clouds that can carry objects. If anything it can be transformed into "mountain" biome a less cold version, and then add the "cold" biome Not trying to be rude... but can you please explain. I think I got lost in translation!... The only think I understand is the floating rocks and clouds.. Do we know that DC has floating islands and magical clouds... Just saying that its magical doesn't seem like a great idea IMO, it just sounds like "it the best thing I could come up with"... At least mountains are easy to explain, look at mount everest. I could imagine that the himalayas and other mountain ranges make a suitable place for the "sky" dragons to hang out. I always imagined "sky" dragons being able to tolerate lower amount of O2 compared to dragons... Like the aquatic breeds being able to extract O2 from water... About the water-dwelling creatures, I think the thalassa would be a coast/ocean breed, seeing it is linked to large amounts of water mana, where better than in the largest bodies of water? The waterhorse encyclopedia page claims it can survive on "clean" or salty water, so it fits for both coast/ocean and wetlands/freshwater. As an avid aquarist, I understand that many associate large bodies of water as the ocean. However many freshwater systems (rift lakes in Africa... Malawi, Victoria and Tanganyika; Baikal lake, amazon; nile; congo and mekong systems as other examples) are considered large bodies of freshwater which I imagine that dragons could live in with little migration to the marine environment. (So i guesstimated that Thalassa could live in freshwater, unless creator says otherwise!) Edited May 30, 2016 by aussieJJDude Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 As an avid aquarist, I understand that many associate large bodies of water as the ocean. However many freshwater systems (rift lakes in Africa... Malawi, Victoria and Tanganyika; Baikal lake, amazon; nile; congo and mekong systems as other examples) are considered large bodies of freshwater which I imagine that dragons could live in with little migration to the marine environment. (So i guesstimated that Thalassa could live in freshwater, unless creator says otherwise!) If we're going to talk about freshwater systems don't leave out the Great Lakes, since it's the largest freshwater system in the world. Plenty of room in Lake Superior for dragons. (I happen to live in the Great Lakes State, so when you talk freshwater systems I naturally think of the Great Lakes.) Our current map does have a couple larger bodies of freshwater which I think we could consider using as the map area for a freshwater biome, or perhaps adding an area would be possible. It's true that freshwater ecosystems and saltwater ecosystems are very different. One could argue that most of our freshwater dragons can fit nicely in existing biomes, but making a freshwater biome would perhaps extend options there. I do think when talking about adding biomes we should look at the current map and think what would fit the world we have there. Savannah/steppes/plains are an example of something that I think would fit. Right now the thinking is that our forest areas include meadows and our jungles include savannahs. However, savannahs are low rainfall areas. Jungles are not usually considered low rainfall. And hey look, we have some areas on the map between our forests and some of our deserts that are blank. Steppes and short grass plains are semi-arid, low rainfall areas that in my mind would fit nicely between our forests and deserts. So, in this case, we have a map area or two that already lends itself, we have some breeds already that would fit well. (Horse dragons, I'm looking at you in particular) and the type of area we're talking about isn't an obvious part of existing biomes. Perfect. Share this post Link to post
Posted May 30, 2016 The only think I understand is the floating rocks and clouds.. Do we know that DC has floating islands and magical clouds... Just saying that its magical doesn't seem like a great idea IMO, it just sounds like "it the best thing I could come up with"... TJ has previously mentioned floating islands somewhere on his Lore AMA… I can't find his exact post, but I do recall something about foating islands on the eastern side of Galsreim that float because of crystallized air mana. Not that I think that these islands should be their own biome, but they probably do exist in DC. Share this post Link to post
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