New Biomes

[Nerei]

Would still love to see more biomes implemented, particularly grassland and tundra 

[Alrexwolf]

tbh if Grasslands were added that would make me so happy? Oasis Pygmy dragons were originally designed to live in the desert and border grasslands (based on the desertification of real life grasslands), but because of how the game is set up right now, they have to be desert/jungle or nothing.

 

I would absolutely love if the biomes were more real life specific? Like.

Alpine, Coastal, Marine, Arid, Moorland/Plains/Savannah, Temperate, Tropical, Polar/Tundra

[JavaTigress]

More biomes? 

24 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

tbh if Grasslands were added that would make me so happy? Oasis Pygmy dragons were originally designed to live in the desert and border grasslands (based on the desertification of real life grasslands), but because of how the game is set up right now, they have to be desert/jungle or nothing.

 

I would absolutely love if the biomes were more real life specific? Like.

Alpine, Coastal, Marine, Arid, Moorland/Plains/Savannah, Temperate, Tropical, Polar/Tundra

I actually very much like this idea. It would give people more options and possibilities for dragon concepts, I think?

[Ashywolf]

The biggest gaps I see for potential are Savannah/Plains (grassland is a bit non-specific imo) and then maybe Marine (for ocean-dedicated things, separate from Coastal e.g. land-based dragons).

 

Tropical could overlap with Jungle too much, I feel.

[Alrexwolf]

7 hours ago, Ashywolf said:

The biggest gaps I see for potential are Savannah/Plains (grassland is a bit non-specific imo) and then maybe Marine (for ocean-dedicated things, separate from Coastal e.g. land-based dragons).

 

Tropical could overlap with Jungle too much, I feel.

 

Oh I meant that those homes would replace what we have now. So jungle = tropical, forest = temperate.

 

I also wouldn't mind a boreal/taiga biome but I feel like Polar and Alpine pretty much cover the breeds we have now in terms of habitat lore.

[olympe]

Personally, I think it's time to add some biomes, between one and three - and maybe move some breeds over. Grasslands is a favorite, since it could contain dragons from Jungle, Forest and sometimes even Desert - depending on what kind of grassland it is. Maybe even add Savannah (=wooded grassland) and Prairie (=grassland without woods)? Or save one of them for later?

Also, a distinction for the coast biome could be in order. Maybe add either of these: Bog/Swamp, Lake/River or Ocean.

I think I have to agree that "Alpine" shouldn't stay the only cold-climate biome, and I'd love to see it be more defined by being mountainous than being *the* cold-climate biome TM. So, Tundra would be nice, too.

 

But by now, there are some problems to consider: Biome-based breeds. Will there be new varieties for the new biome of both Xenos and Zyus? Should there be none of them? Or a random selection? One variety assigned to the new biome? Of course, there's the same problem for coppers, too...

[osmarks]

@olympe Coppers are probably easier to handle, since they're just different colors and each is already available in multiple biomes, so you'd just need to redivide them up. Zyumorphs/Xenowyrms would be harder, and while I'd want more colours (purple/pink/black/white/translucent xenowyrms, anyone?) others, such as the artists, might not. I guess to keep the rarities roughly the same you'd have to have the new biomes have a 50/50 mix of colors from biomes similar to them or something.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Zyus would create much more of a problem. You need all of them to get a Sino, and if more were introduced, it’d be unfair on the people who don’t yet have a Sino as they’d require more dragons to summon, meaning the people who got a Sino when there were only 5 Zyus get an unfair advantage.

 

If there were more biomes introduced, I don’t think Xenos and Zyus should get more variations because of this problem. I mean, it isn’t that unbelievable that a creature with multiple variations isn’t available across the whole of the nation, so it wouldn’t be too bad I don’t think. 

[purplehaze]

3 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

If there were more biomes introduced, I don’t think Xenos and Zyus should get more variations because of this problem. I mean, it isn’t that unbelievable that a creature with multiple variations isn’t available across the whole of the nation, so it wouldn’t be too bad I don’t think. 

 

Agreed. I see no problem having a biome or two without these breeds. 

[Ruby Eyes]

Xenos and Coppers bred to dragons from any new biomes could just behave as if they were bred to something with Location: Cave

[purplehaze]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Xenos and Coppers bred to dragons from any new biomes could just behave as if they were bred to something with Location: Cave

Exactly!

[bluedog]

On 8/15/2018 at 4:24 PM, Niyaka said:

Would still love to see more biomes implemented, particularly grassland and tundra 

 

Yes to this great idea.

[Fiona]

53 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Xenos and Coppers bred to dragons from any new biomes could just behave as if they were bred to something with Location: Cave

 

I don't think so, for Coppers, as that circumvents the breeding mechanic for them. I don't know that I support added biomes yet, though at some point as the list of dragon breeds dropped in each biome grows we'll need to do something. If TJ decided to add biomes I expect he and I would talk and add a Copper variant as appropriate to each of the new biomes.

 

ETA: not new variants. Just decide which existing variant would be appropriate to each new biome.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Fiona

[Ruby Eyes]

8 minutes ago, Fiona said:

I don't know that I support added biomes yet

I would like to point out that there are not only Location: Cave, but also Location: Market and the holiday biome already, all of which make Coppers breed true.

Market sample: https://dragcave.net/progeny/vUU3M

Edited August 17, 2018 by Ruby Eyes
spelling

[Fiona]

Location: Cave are from before biomes were added. Therefore these are naturally limited by time. They were a reasonable way to handle how dragons caught before biomes were added bred Coppers. Part of the attraction for buying non-rares from the Market is so you can breed them to Copper males and have them breed true. They are again somewhat limited, by the number of shards each person can collect each week. Market dragons supplement biomes, not replace catching in biomes. Likewise, the Holiday biome is limited in how many dragons a person can have each year by the short drop period and by breed limits for Christmas and Valentines. You're proposing adding new biomes to the list of the primary source of CB eggs. That is our major way of attaining CB eggs and that would have a severe impact on Copper breeding mechanics. It makes far more sense to me to simply assign each of any new biomes a variant of Coppers to drop from that biome.

[Chaos Rider]

21 hours ago, Fiona said:

Location: Cave are from before biomes were added. Therefore these are naturally limited by time. They were a reasonable way to handle how dragons caught before biomes were added bred Coppers. Part of the attraction for buying non-rares from the Market is so you can breed them to Copper males and have them breed true. They are again somewhat limited, by the number of shards each person can collect each week. Market dragons supplement biomes, not replace catching in biomes. Likewise, the Holiday biome is limited in how many dragons a person can have each year by the short drop period and by breed limits for Christmas and Valentines. You're proposing adding new biomes to the list of the primary source of CB eggs. That is our major way of attaining CB eggs and that would have a severe impact on Copper breeding mechanics. It makes far more sense to me to simply assign each of any new biomes a variant of Coppers to drop from that biome.

 

 

I'm not sure I follow you. I wouldn't mind if the new biomes had different types of Coppers assigned to them. But why would it matter if they didn't and Coppers bred with dragons from those biomes bred true? Wouldn't that provide more options for making lineages with Coppers? Why does the dragons from the Cave/Market biomes being limited matter?

 

edit, just looked up the spriter of Copper dragons. Well it's the spriters decision, I just want to know their reasoning

Edited August 18, 2018 by Chaos Rider

[Crowned_Ladybug]

My initial reaction upon seeing this suggestion's title was "really, guys?", but reading back a bit, my mind has successfully been changed and I'm totally in support of the idea!

 

I would find it nice to have multiple water-based biomes instead of just the one Coast (let the distinction be salt vs freshwater or land near water vs actually in the water, either sounds great to me!), and another biome that is cold while having nothing to do with mountains. A grassland sounds neat too for covering the large gap between "desert" and "forest" (which I never noticed before but feels very strange now).

 

I'm not gonna say anything on the Coppers because their breeding still bamboozles me half the time, but about the Xenos and Zyus, I don't think new ones need to be added for each new biome (not all biome-specific alts are nor have to be 6/6) and breeding-wise I agree that they could breed with dragons from the new biomes the same way they do with Cave/Market ones.

[Fiona]

@Chaos Rider It's pretty simple, really. Coppers were released with a special breeding mechanic that is biome based. The more exceptions you make to that mechanic the less reason there is to have it there at all. Why bother with special mechanics if they can be circumvented with little or no effort on the part of the players? Right now there are combinations of breeds that cannot be bred using particular colors of Coppers, short of investing shards in Market eggs. Market eggs are the exception, not the norm, so it requires a sacrifice (of shards) to produce certain results. That takes time and dedication.

 

The Holiday biome doesn't change that particularly since for Holiday and Valentines eggs one is limited to having only two CB of those dragons. Yes, we're allowed as many CB Halloween dragons as we care to hunt down, but Halloween dragons are still a holiday breed and aren't going to circumvent the special breeding mechanic significantly.

 

So, if there are more biomes released, I would talk with TJ and those biomes would be assigned a Copper variant, so as not to circumvent the mechanic that they were released with.

 

It's not that I'm opposed to more biomes, precisely. I'm not sure we need more, though I have no issue with people who are asking for more. That's a separate issue from how more biomes would impact Copper breeding. I am opposed to having new biomes produce dragons that would circumvent the existing Copper breeding mechanic. No, I am not going to make more variants of Coppers, no matter what biomes are introduced. Coppers are uncommons. They can be challenging enough for players to collect without adding more colors.

[olympe]

@Fiona: I know I mentioned coppers, as well as the other biome-based breeds that drop in all biomes, but I'm not trying to force your hand or some such. However, copper breeding most definitely is an issue that needs to be addressed, and you're the best candidate for doing so. I think assigning each biome one of the existing colors would be the easiest way to go, even if coppers don't drop in these biomes themselves (which is an option, too). Anyway, I'll let you and TJ figure out the details. The only thing that could turn out to be a problem is if the number of biomes being assigned to one kind of copper isn't the same for each variant any more. Because it seems like coppers get created as just that, "coppers", then assigned to the biomes randomly - and they only express their respective color once in a biome. So, having (for example) 5 biomes with green coppers and 3 biomes with the two other variants would lead to a surplus of green coppers. (Not that I'd be complaining about verdigris becoming predominant, I love those!)

[HeatherMarie]

On 8/18/2018 at 6:08 AM, Crowned_Ladybug said:

My initial reaction upon seeing this suggestion's title was "really, guys?", but reading back a bit, my mind has successfully been changed and I'm totally in support of the idea!

 

 

I just want to mention how much I love this, I've done the same thing many times, had my mind completely changed as I read through a thread. It's great to come into a thread with an open mind. 

 

I would love a distinction between 'shallow water' type dragons and 'deep ocean dragons' (well, shallow in relative terms). I also agree it would be great to have a cold place that isn't in the mountains, there are plenty of animals that thrive in cold but don't necessarily live on or near a mountain, I imagine the same could be true for dragons  

[TJ09]

On 8/16/2018 at 1:23 PM, olympe said:

Personally, I think it's time to add some biomes, between one and three - and maybe move some breeds over. Grasslands is a favorite, since it could contain dragons from Jungle, Forest and sometimes even Desert - depending on what kind of grassland it is. Maybe even add Savannah (=wooded grassland) and Prairie (=grassland without woods)? Or save one of them for later?

Also, a distinction for the coast biome could be in order. Maybe add either of these: Bog/Swamp, Lake/River or Ocean.

I think I have to agree that "Alpine" shouldn't stay the only cold-climate biome, and I'd love to see it be more defined by being mountainous than being *the* cold-climate biome TM. So, Tundra would be nice, too.

 

But by now, there are some problems to consider: Biome-based breeds. Will there be new varieties for the new biome of both Xenos and Zyus? Should there be none of them? Or a random selection? One variety assigned to the new biome? Of course, there's the same problem for coppers, too...

 

What signifies to you that "it's time?" Even the most populous biomes have fewer breeds than the cave did way back when (which should be unsurprising, given that things were split into six and the site hasn't increased sixfold in terms of breeds recently). When you "normalize" breeds that appear in multiple biomes (that is, for a breed that appears in e.g. 3 biomes, count it as 1/3 instead of a full breed), then it's even further.

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh good ! I had nothing to say before as I am one player who would vote against more biomes if it were put to a poll

[Sazandora]

Don't worry Fuzz, you're not the only one. I also don't think DC needs more biomes, the ones we have now is just fine. It'd mess up Copper and Xenowyrm spawns pretty badly -- we'd need at least three biomes so that all three colors of Coppers would drop on an equal rate, and SIX more biomes for all the Xenowyrms!

Because these things are rare enough that if new biomes were to be implemented, they SHOULD drop from the new ones as well like so many "all biomes"-rares.

[olympe]

2 hours ago, Sazandora said:

[snip] It'd mess up Copper and Xenowyrm spawns pretty badly -- we'd need at least three biomes so that all three colors of Coppers would drop on an equal rate, and SIX more biomes for all the Xenowyrms!

Because these things are rare enough that if new biomes were to be implemented, they SHOULD drop from the new ones as well like so many "all biomes"-rares.

Actually, we wouldn't need three more biomes at all. If a hypothetical (and, for now, shot down) 7th biome existed, it wouldn't have to drop coppers, as long as it has a copper color assigned for breeding purposes. And even if coppers did drop there, it's still possible for TJ to even out the ratios of the three coppoer colors by assigning appropriate probabilities of coppers dropping in each new biome.

 

6 hours ago, TJ09 said:

What signifies to you that "it's time?" Even the most populous biomes have fewer breeds than the cave did way back when (which should be unsurprising, given that things were split into six and the site hasn't increased sixfold in terms of breeds recently). When you "normalize" breeds that appear in multiple biomes (that is, for a breed that appears in e.g. 3 biomes, count it as 1/3 instead of a full breed), then it's even further.

Well, if you want to count it like 1/3 and so on, of course there's less. Still, I start to see a pattern that was predominant in the old cave: Some of the commons (that aren't quite blocker-common, but still common) are getting harder to find because there's too much variety in any one biome. (Go ask fuzzbucket about balloons if you want to know more... Or ask yourself why 1-2 CB Celestials trade for 3rd gen prizes.) I think the tipping point is reached when a lot of  people start to buy their commons from the market instead of hunting for them, so that might be something you'd want to keep an eye on.

[Alrexwolf]

6 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Oh good ! I had nothing to say before as I am one player who would vote against more biomes if it were put to a poll

 

Okay but... why? This doesn't help improve this suggestion or sway others as to what you think / why you think a different or the current system would be better.

 

What changed? If you had nothing to say before did you mean TJ implied that there would be no more biomes added? I'm so confused because if that's what you mean I didn't see that at all.