Unlimited CB Xmas/Valentines - done in a BALANCED way

[deleted_account]

7 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Things are more balanced than they were before last year, but "more balanced" doesn't mean "there"—it already looks like there will be a lot of demand for older Holiday CBs this year, and that's not even taking into account all of the people that join between now and December.

 

Overall, event eggs may appear in the market next season, but I've already said that the market is not meant to supplant/be easier than cave hunting. This means that the first post's assumption that market availability is enough to compensate for significantly increased (literally no limits on event CBs) demand for every egg in the event biomes is wrong.

 

Well, I did see how the holiday biome worked this Valentines. There were only like 20-30 people hunting at a time whenever I looked. There were also way too many Arsanis noone could pick up. The biome wasn't really getting empty either, if you raised the spawn numbers, thank you, if you didn't, this only speaks for itself. Most of active players seem to have gotten their fills, I did last year, this year I only replaced my Heartstealer and Radiant Angel because I needed a full set of mateless CB Valentines for a project. Those who don't have 2 each or almost each, aren't the most(if at all) active players... or simply chose to not have 2 each. The biome was not busy, it was resting and occassionally crawling with a few twitches.

 

The initial year's limit is just pointless with all the 3 flood days in all 6 biomes. It only makes the following year's demand for the given breed higher, see Omens, Florals, Garlands during the latest events... And see how e.g. Arsani was mostly a biome blocker most of the time. And if people woudl suddenly start having problems with getting the new holiday eggs, all you need to do is to make the biomes refill constantly to supply the demand.

You always state that the reason behind the limits was to make those holidays less stressful (and time consuming) and more of a gifting sprit... but life has proven that it is the opposite, and in terms of gifting it's the halloween that encourages gifting and the other 2 are those that discourage gifting that is anyhow CB related(breeding them included), people just don't have things to give because they can only have 2. And its definitely not less stressful to get the needed breeds of those 2 holidays if the biome is not moving much and because nobody CAN move it. 

Also 2 is such a riddiculusly low number, it suffices so few scroll goals, and yet you let Aegises happen making it 1 in their case, why on Earth... 

 

Please, just, be reasonable... don't keep the limits just because... people have given you quite a bunch of valid reasons for lifting the limits but what are the reasons for keeping them? very weak... mostly emotional anxiety and a "because that's what I think I want"

[Velvet_paw]

Personally I don't have a problem with limits but I can see what people here are saying. Perhaps frozen dragons shouldn't count towards your limit and the spawn rate of older holidays could be reduced to prevent them blocking the holiday biome if they are not being picked up at all which would help players who are hunting for cbs that they are not at their limits. The holiday biome is flawed in that respect and caveblockers dont get picked up .holidays shouldnt become caveblockers which is why I support the spawning feedback mechanism.Not everybody has a fast connection or is good at trading and this should be taken into account. That said holiday dragons are meant to be special and having the limits encourages generosity amongst breeders. It wasn't that long ago that cbs could only be picked up in cave in the year of release and you considered yourself lucky to have a 7th gen unmessy Holly, so we should be grateful to TJ for giving us the past holiday biome. A slight increase to 4 past holidays would be nice  to help clear the holiday biome if the spawn rate remained the same  also on a personal level as I would love to be able to have a pair of enraged cb aegis as well as a pair of cb pacified aegis.

Reducing the 3 day drop to one - not a good idea imho, for many Xmas is a family time.many people are travelling or busy or perhaps even without Internet access. Adding extra stress doesn't help mental health.and holidays should be celebrated. Valentines could be seen as the same if you are preparing a special event - just saying. Wow I've written a lot more than I usually do and I don't know how difficult it would be to implement any suggestions. But I do want to say thanks to TJ for listening to our suggestions. It must be hard work maintaining a game of this size with so many players and keeping everybody happy balancing the needs of long term players looking for new things with ease of play for newbies. I've always enjoyed holiday releases and events which are a lot of extra work for spriters mods and TJ.so Whatever he finally decides regarding holidays is fine and thanks for the game

Edit

Just remembered a conversation I had a few years ago about temporary space on scrolls a bit like the space taken by multi clutches before you choose which egg to keep. Not sure if this is the right place to suggest this but a temporary egg slot that didn't count towards your holiday or egg limits that auto abandoned within 2-4 hours and could only be gifted to those with less than the limit could work too.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Velvet_paw

[olympe]

7 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Things are more balanced than they were before last year, but "more balanced" doesn't mean "there"—it already looks like there will be a lot of demand for older Holiday CBs this year, and that's not even taking into account all of the people that join between now and December.

 

Overall, event eggs may appear in the market next season, but I've already said that the market is not meant to supplant/be easier than cave hunting. This means that the first post's assumption that market availability is enough to compensate for significantly increased (literally no limits on event CBs) demand for every egg in the event biomes is wrong.

 

While I understand your reasoning, I still have a question:

What if market-bought holidays - and only those - were unlimited? 

• Competition in the Holiday biome wouldn't be affected by older players stocking up.
• Newer players would not lose the thrill of the hunt.
• Older players would be able to stock up on their favorite(s) - if that's what they'd want to spend their shards on.
• No matter what a holiday egg would cost in the market, the mere fact that you'd have to spend shards for them means that there *is* a limit built in, just not a 2 CB per scroll limit set into stone.

[MIGOR]

Perhaps frozen dragons shouldn't count  - it would be superb !! Valentine and NY dragons (and GoNs...hihihihi) - plz, rise the limit to 4.

[olympe]

Why? I mean, really, why?

[Uther_Pendragon]

Just saw this!

   As someone who newly lives in the middle of nowhere, and has the slowest internet in the Universe...

I couldn't catch any of those AP Omen eggs in that screenshot even when there was a wall! 😂 (don't get me started about the newest speckled eggs, omg!)

I sure appreciate those whose ideas keep internet like mine in mind when brainstorming changes for all. (Nope, no other provider options, I am smack in a forest)

 

    I'm definitely for raising limits, (Aegis!) but would appreciate the slow increase per year since it's extremely hard-and frustrating-to catch things already. I spend pretty much the entire time eggs are dropping trying my hardest to catch them. I have been successful, and have also traded to get what I needed when I can, but I spend hours upon hours working hard at it. (Not including breeding or doing any concurrent event) It gets stressful when the ending time is nearing and I've not finished catching what I need for the year and the holiday biome is clogged or ppl are way faster than the internet here lets me be.

 The 3 day drops are such a relief, you don't even know. Would be awesome if all new drops gave enough time for everyone to catch them! (Hint hint!)

 

  If I had to purchase from market, 'a month's shards' as I saw suggested is quite a lot really. I wouldn't consider that cheap in any way! (I also dearly love to catch things in cave, it feels like I worked for it, it's exhilarating) I would possibly consider buying if cheap enough though, depending on scroll goals.

Would they have to be bought during said holiday? Or could they be bought after, but non-abandonable nor trade-able? I'm usually locked to the gills with AP 2g's and any allowed cb's until the bitter end of events.

 

(Love and adore the past holiday biome! That has been such a surprise blessing and made gameplay much richer, and I'm eternally grateful!)

 

[Fuzzbucket]

If the limits were raised it would be HARDER for people like you, as others with faster internet could snag more. (I remember dial up; for me it's not that long ago I only managed one CB sweetling...)

[Jazeki]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If the limits were raised it would be HARDER for people like you, as others with faster internet could snag more. (I remember dial up; for me it's not that long ago I only managed one CB sweetling...)

The Sweetlings and many releases were hard all around with one cave. I was in school in the middle of nowhere on school wifi and caught one. But we have biomes now and it's years later. At the very least, with increased limits, people can gift more.

[olympe]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If the limits were raised it would be HARDER for people like you, as others with faster internet could snag more. (I remember dial up; for me it's not that long ago I only managed one CB sweetling...)

Things were different back then, though. Sweetlings only dropped for one day. One. And there was only one "biome", namely the cave. Now, we have drops of 3 days, giving everyone three times as much time to catch them. Plus, the eggs and egg hunters are scattered over 6 different biomes so competition is even less fierce than it would be with just one biome.

 

Back when the Sweetlings were released, I struggled for hours to catch mine. I got one from someone else *cough*, and caught one by myself. These days, with holiday releases, I simply wait for day 2 or 3 of the release, go into any one biome and watch for interesting codes. Most of the time, I can switch from one biome to the next, and once I arrive back at the first, it's still full with the same three codes. 

[Uther_Pendragon]

6 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If the limits were raised it would be HARDER for people like you, as others with faster internet could snag more. (Snip!)

 

  That's why I'd vote for the slower increase of cb's per year. It'd give me-and those like me- a chance to keep up and not feel too frustrated or left behind. (Fuzz, we did dialup when first got here in mid 2017! Couldn't even *load* DC, lol. Had to go to find free WiFi for months. Biome Omens were impossible for me, the ones I got were AP snags. I'm so grateful to those who dump new or cb stuff there!)

   To get the 2 cb Holly's, it took me two Christmases. (lovelovelove that TJ let us have them! I could hug him!) I was disappointed the first round but had hope the special biome would reappear the next year so I could try again, and it did! (The other old cb's were a bit easier to get the first go)

 The second year, (2018) it seemed like more were available, or MUCH less people needed them,'cause I didn't have as much trouble. Still took time, but I snagged it. (Even tried WiFi at Walmart, Library, McDonalds 😆)

Even though it's hard, I'd still love a chance to gather more cb holidays, (unusual pairings woo!) which is why I like the slower increase suggestion; it levels the field a bit and doesn't feel like I'm left flapping in the wind. (Looking at you, Omens, argh)

 

   Also regular releases seem to be much, much shorter than they were previously, before normal eggs blend in, (and super short hour/5 min drops), which makes them mighty hard to catch, let alone fill scroll goals, idk why that was changed. 

[olympe]

40 minutes ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

   Also regular releases seem to be much, much shorter than they were previously, before normal eggs blend in, (and super short hour/5 min drops), which makes them mighty hard to catch, let alone fill scroll goals, idk why that was changed. 

Quite often, this kind of behavior indicates that the new breeds are not quite common. Sometimes a little less than super-common, sometimes uncommon, sometimes rare. Trio and even Copper releases were awful that way. It was also very obvious after the release of the Golden Wyvern and Royal Blue that the GW was considerably rarer than the RB.

[Guillotine]

In this case, due to the speckles being two-headed I expect that the demand will taper more quickly than it would with a standard dragon of the same rarity. They do seem to be slightly rarer, but it also seems to be aggravated by user demand and being split across biomes like some of the other user-driven rares.

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

Olympe, Oh right, right, Coppers! I still don't have all I need, 😆.  (In fairness I did trade a lot I caught for shim/tins at the time.)

I may be dis-remembering (that a word?) but it seems though like new releases were somewhat more plentiful though for at least the first 24h? --even Coppers and Brines and GW's-- 

 

Hope so, Guillotine! If I end up w 8 to start, and quit misclicking!, that'll be good enough since 2 head, and I can add more later as luck and perseverance let me.

 

 

  Anyway, I'm all for balanced holiday increases--and as a really wild dream, upping Val and Hal new egg drops to 2 days to give those with poky providers a better shot. I am a rapid clicker but even the fastest clicker can't do much with molasses internet. (My cell won't even work here. Boonies!)--and adding hols to the market if cheap. And the other wild dream is ablity to purchase holidays off-season with trade/abandon restricted.

 

 

 

 

[FeatheryWings]

I think there is a reason why we have limits in Valentine's and Christmas and I remember TJ also mentioned about that before? Those days are about sharing, being generous and letting everyone have some gifts from you. That is also the reason the dragons multiclutch on these days.

 

Now, what you are suggesting with no limits would only push people towards getting more CBs, which would immensely decrease the number of eggs in the AP of the holiday (Compare a Halloween AP to the Christmas or Valentine's AP) and therefore the eggs and lines shared.

 

Also, we have no limits for every other dragon throughout the year, so I think having limits on only a bunch of CB dragons of these special days shouldn't hurt anyone. Those dragons are meant to be shared anyway, not hoarded and I think it is beautiful the way it is, resembling the importance of the holiday and sharing instead of being greedy and locking yourself with CBs. If you want these dragons, you HAVE TO breed them, which WILL result with some of the offsprings ending up on someone elses scroll.

 

For the same reason, I dislike the idea of having the limits raised, because we already have like 22+ CB holiday slot for each of these holidays and it is more than enough honestly. I'd actually even prefer one dragon limit as it would make the sharing even more special but that would probably make some Aegis lovers very salty.

[purplehaze]

2 hours ago, FeatheryWings said:

I think there is a reason why we have limits in Valentine's and Christmas and I remember TJ also mentioned about that before? Those days are about sharing, being generous and letting everyone have some gifts from you. That is also the reason the dragons multiclutch on these days.

But as has been pointed out earlier in this thread by several people, it actually has the opposite effect. People are much less likely to breed for others if they only have 2 CBs of a breed to build their own lines from. Yes, in breeding for ourselves we often get extra eggs that go to the AP, but the response to requests for specific breedings is much lower than at Halloween when a person may have more CBs to use to breed for both themselves and others.

2 hours ago, FeatheryWings said:

Now, what you are suggesting with no limits would only push people towards getting more CBs, which would immensely decrease the number of eggs in the AP of the holiday (Compare a Halloween AP to the Christmas or Valentine's AP) and therefore the eggs and lines shared.

Have you seen the AP at Halloween? I would not say there are a lower number of eggs in the AP than at other holidays! In fact, there are actually more. It takes the holiday wall quite a bit longer to go away at Halloween than at either Christmas or Valentines.

 

Sorry, but I can't agree with your arguments, even though I am somewhat on the fence about this suggestion myself.

[FeatheryWings]

16 hours ago, purplehaze said:

But as has been pointed out earlier in this thread by several people, it actually has the opposite effect. People are much less likely to breed for others if they only have 2 CBs of a breed to build their own lines from. Yes, in breeding for ourselves we often get extra eggs that go to the AP, but the response to requests for specific breedings is much lower than at Halloween when a person may have more CBs to use to breed for both themselves and others.

 

But that is the thing about gifting, you do not tell someone to gift you something specific, you receive a gift and enjoy it and that is what makes it special for me, receiving things unexpected rather than things that we would ask for. I like this aspect of Valentine's and Christmas. 

 

Of course, you are free to disagree with my thoughts and I can't force anyone to think the same, it is just how I feel about these days and why I think the limits make them more meaningful by adding the surprise element.

[Fuzzbucket]

Most gifts at Christmas and Valentines are actually asked for in my experience; it's the best way to make sure that you are breeding what the other person wants. If I receive some 2nd gen out of the blue, that doesn't fit anything I am doing, I feel a bit bad that someone who needed that to complete a line will have missed out,. actually.

[Ruffledfeathers]

I am for unlimited holiday dragons, but I get that people may struggle to pick them up with higher competition.

 

Maybe you could have the chance to win extra CB holidays from mini daily holiday raffles with a decent winner pool, or maybe complete an event to obtain a CB holiday dragon of choice? Im just trying to think of alternate ways unintrusive to those with poor internet.

[Cinspawn]

2 hours ago, Ruffledfeathers said:

I am for unlimited holiday dragons, but I get that people may struggle to pick them up with higher competition.

 

Maybe you could have the chance to win extra CB holidays from mini daily holiday raffles with a decent winner pool, or maybe complete an event to obtain a CB holiday dragon of choice? Im just trying to think of alternate ways unintrusive to those with poor internet.

I don't think anyone is waiting for even more unexpected RNG things. A lot of people disagree with raffles.

 

I think if unlimited CBs were implemented the way as described in the OP, there is no way that the few people with REALLY bad internet will miss out - those with ok internet can absolutely participate (just like they did in Halloween and even easier with the OP rules) and those that can not, perhaps some sort of annual holiday gifting thread with a nice system could be opened, so people can catch for those people - in fact I'm pretty sure such a thread already exists.

People on DC are super giving, and it would actually give them something to do rather than collect your X holidays and sign off for the week. I know I'd help gift people if I didn't have to worry about 'missing out' for my own slots.

[olympe]

Holiday gifting threads, however, do not really compensate for the ability to grab your own. It just isn't the same.

[HeatherMarie]

I just re-read the OP, and I have a question that may have been answered somewhere along the line and I'm just totally missing it? The OP's plan is for *new* holiday dragons, correct? Because it specifies the first year the dragon is available, the second year, etc. The OP doesn't seem to address the breeds we *already* have at all. Would *all* older holiday breeds be immediately unlimited? Because that's a *huge* deal... The OP seems to be trying to do what's possible to have a lower-stress lower-complication 'unlimited' suggestion, but if 10+ limited breeds were suddenly totally unlimited all at once, I can't imagine that not being stressful! Everyone clamoring for the rarest old breed (Holly, for example), fighting over the limited amount that are dropped....

[angelicdragonpuppy]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

I just re-read the OP, and I have a question that may have been answered somewhere along the line and I'm just totally missing it? The OP's plan is for *new* holiday dragons, correct? Because it specifies the first year the dragon is available, the second year, etc. The OP doesn't seem to address the breeds we *already* have at all. Would *all* older holiday breeds be immediately unlimited? Because that's a *huge* deal... The OP seems to be trying to do what's possible to have a lower-stress lower-complication 'unlimited' suggestion, but if 10+ limited breeds were suddenly totally unlimited all at once, I can't imagine that not being stressful! Everyone clamoring for the rarest old breed (Holly, for example), fighting over the limited amount that are dropped....

 

We’ve already had two years of most users being limited while new players can get their fill, so I think most of the chaos is already past us. I suppose it could be rolled out as if they were “new,” however (so the first year this is announced they’d be treated like it was their first year of release all over again, giving everyone another extra year to get their 2 before the floodgates open).

[KrazyKarp]

6 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Everyone clamoring for the rarest old breed (Holly, for example), fighting over the limited amount that are dropped....

Are Hollies even considered a "rare old breed" anymore? Seems to me those days are far behind us, I don't think it's really matters anymore hold old a breed is nowadays.

 

Now that we've had two times of limits on older breeds being available, I really don't think it's necessary for another year of limits.

[osmarks]

I've found new dragons (Garlands, last Christmas) much harder to get than older ones myself.

[KrazyKarp]

I've seen more people say that the biomes getting clogged up and not moving due to limits makes it difficult to CB hunt when someone is just missing a couple breeds. Clearly, being this early on in the season, there aren't enough people who need to catch up to having 2 CBs of each breed to warrant limits still existing. We're most definitely ready to completely remove limits starting next year.

 

I'd say that even the new breed should be unlimited, at least for Valentine's Day since that really isn't a busy holiday. Halloween is probably busier for most than Valentine's Day.

 

Also, this was discussed before, but the biomes should really be a continuous flow of eggs for all three holidays and never run out - that way, holidays are still not too stressful, and we can still have no limits. Along with the eggs being in the market, too. There's so much we can do to make it unlimited and not difficult to catch eggs.

Edited December 21, 2019 by KrazyKarp