Jump to content
angelicdragonpuppy

Unlimited CB Xmas/Valentines - done in a BALANCED way

Recommended Posts

A community project of blocking the AP with CBs is childish, but more importantly, it deviates from productive conversation on this suggestion. I'm in 100% support of this suggestion but in absolute no support of battling against TJ to implement it. I'd much rather have us do an active discussion with him, working together with him, to figure out how we could eventually get to unlimited CBs.

Share this post


Link to post

Lets not ruin fun for other people by being childish and breaking the AP with CBs.

 

Sure I wouldn't mind unlimited CBs, but I rather not try to break something to get it.

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, VixenDra said:

TBH I believe we should organise ourselves and actually lock the AP with CB holidays exactly to show TJ that the change is necessary and wanted (not only we would break the AP for a while, but also would show how riddiculusly easy it is to grab CBs that flood for 3 full days). Because nearly all of us are already CB-locked with past breeds (and the Holiday biome's spawn rate is set poorly and so much underdelivering there wouldn't be enough eggs to lock the AP - because so few are spawned, though the 2010-2013 breeds - or so - seem to lock the holiday biome, so we could try to use those), this would have to be about the new breed mostly - Valentine's release soon, good opportunity to try to show our point and break the AP for a few days.

Just keep in mind that would require quite a big chunk of the community actually doing the grab2-5h-abandon2-repeat until late 27th since everyone can contribute just 2 eggs per min 5h at best, and latecomers IS a thing and many of those will be picked up from the AP, we neeed to contribute enough to cover that (plus the people who will grab the lower time eggs from the AP rather than 7d from the biomes:<) AND lock the AP until the CB wall hits 0d0h... There also may be people who will do anything to unlock the AP... won't be easy to achieve the satisfactory AP lock, considering a few hundreds users are always online, and the forum is mainly a few dozens of the same people all over again... and someone would need to take care of the Discord part of the community too. Would be great to try this every December and February until the limits are lifted or rised to a sufficient amount...

For the greater good!

This is madness. If we actually organise an event to break the game (or part of it), TJ will simply tell us to deal with it on our own. "You broke it, you deal with it!" Or just make the CB holiday eggs sent to AP go poof - or back into the cave. He isn't stupid that way, and bending his arm backward to make him do what we want will do only one thing: Backfire. Most likely spectacularly.

 

ETA: Gee, thanks! /sarcasm

image.png.af124f43d226e70b1693ea5994631ea7.png

Edited by olympe

Share this post


Link to post

I'm with those not wanting to break something. Personally, I would just rather see CB Holidays become un-abandonable once picked up. Trading/Gifting would still be okay, but no sending them to the AP (exception would be the Halloween breeds as they have no limit)

 

Still, I feel increasing limits would not help solve the problem (as then people could abandon even more eggs, meaning more people have to sacrifice spots to pick them up)

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, ShorahNagi said:

I'm with those not wanting to break something. Personally, I would just rather see CB Holidays become un-abandonable once picked up. Trading/Gifting would still be okay, but no sending them to the AP (exception would be the Halloween breeds as they have no limit)

This, so very much.

Share this post


Link to post
58 minutes ago, ShorahNagi said:

Personally, I would just rather see CB Holidays become un-abandonable once picked up.

Let's not. People hunt for special codes to go with these special dragons, and despite them being "ungrabbable" the new egg wall up there only lasted a mere few hours.

Share this post


Link to post

I absolutely do not support unabandonable CBs. Want something with a better code? Want some space right now? NOPE.

Share this post


Link to post

Also, some people grab CBs and release them so that people who missed the release are able to grab them later in the AP.  The CB wall doesn't last long enough to be annoying, imo. 

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, ShorahNagi said:

I'm with those not wanting to break something. Personally, I would just rather see CB Holidays become un-abandonable once picked up. Trading/Gifting would still be okay, but no sending them to the AP (exception would be the Halloween breeds as they have no limit)

 

Still, I feel increasing limits would not help solve the problem (as then people could abandon even more eggs, meaning more people have to sacrifice spots to pick them up)

No no no. The AP was crawling with lovely abandoned ones for people who missed the drops.

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, olympe said:

image.png.af124f43d226e70b1693ea5994631ea7.png

 

See? This (though far form the extreme) happens on its own because of the limits... I didn't abandon a single one myself. But there are code hunters, latecomer-helpers etc. As I said, the game has too many users to actually lock the AP for that long in practise, but it still gets naturally locked - for at least some time.

Also, even if somehow the wall would stay and not enough latecomes remained to let any other breed's egg in, the wall would still vanish when those eggs timeout in 4 more days, that's not a severe break, and the game is also not all about AP. Don't keep making mountains out of molehills, guys.

I basically knew it will get to a Starsinger AP lock for at least a moment, it was true a year ago or so, and was bound to happen again, without my helf and probably without anyone trying to lock the AP. 

And notice that the Halloween wall is a great and generosity-related thing! And that the December and February AP lock IS also helpful to all them latecomers, and relieves the following year's Holiday biome hunt (notice that the most recent breeds were the most difficult to grab; Omens, Garlands... in following years they will be the most demanded - because everyone is locked with past breeds and the past breeds are needed only by new players and for people who decide to release one of their adults for some reason, while those of not-new players who missed latest holiday will aim to get them = latest year's breed demand > all older breeds demand. That's why I don't see why the currently released breed should be limited - that, AP lock, etc. but hey, better the OP's suggestion than the current state of things).

Well, the entire point was that limits are only game breaking(I simply pointed out another reason why it's game-breaking, because it happens on its own already and now imagine enough users actually trying to lock the AP too¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) and serves no positive purpose - especially if we consider that the limits lift can also be accompanied by accordingly increased spawn rate to make up for increased demand&scroll space, and leaving the release lasting 3 days *shrug*

 

It was funny to see all the panic-filled outbreak and how much all of you forgot this thread's topic tho xD

Edited by VixenDra

Share this post


Link to post

Again, purposefully "locking down" the AP by making the CB wall last even longer does not accomplish anything. TJ isn't magically going to appear before us and instantly make the limits go poof if you try to strong-arm him like that. Yes, feel free to be all smug and "See? I told you so! :^)" as much as you want, but doing a dumb childish stunt like that won't change anything at all.

I wouldn't even say that this year's Starsinger wall "blocked" the AP for any significant amounts of time. And for some reason you think that making it last long enough for everything in there to die is the miracle cure to the CB limits?

 

Back on topic, I've been thinking about this whole thing for a while now. I'm still a little hesitant to support a total removal of CB limits, though I certainly wouldn't mind raising them up a little bit. But if the limits were to be removed entirely, then I think the biomes should also be made to never run out of eggs during the holidays. Only then would I support a total removal of CB limits.

Share this post


Link to post

Since we're pretty early in the holiday cycle now, I'm not going to push this too hard yet, but here's a nudge. We've had two rounds of old CB Holidays returning now; I'm sure statistically the dropoff in people using them has been pretty significant? If so that'd be all the more reason to argue for this, if not keeping things easy for everyone is precisely why I suggested the three-step system.

Share this post


Link to post

I still can't see why they should be unlimited. Four - OK. Further - really, no. What next - more GoNs ?

Share this post


Link to post

After seeing the Christmas and the Valentines events for myself as someone who has only been playing since July 2018 I still firmly support this suggestion. Getting the CB dragons on both of those events was dreadfully boring compared to Halloween and included a frustrating amount of staring at eggs that would not change. I much preferred the way it was on Halloween - every reset you'd see more or less all kinds of eggs and get the chance to grab whatever you need. No need to camp the biome for the full 5 minutes and stare at unchanging eggs as the Halloween biome would empty in about a minute or so. I ended up getting what I wanted from all events, but the overall experience was far worse with Christmas and Valentines because of all the eggs that would not cycle.

 

Having started playing Magistream recently I've also begun to favor the idea of never having biomes run out of eggs even more. The combination of biomes never running out of eggs + event CBs not having limits would make for a much more flexible experience for everyone. I'm sure that even the newbies with slower internet would be able to keep up easily if there was no danger of the eggs ever running out. It'd be so convenient. Even with the biome emptying though, I'd prefer that the event eggs cycle freely with everyone being able to pick them up because staring at the poorly cycling Christmas and Valentines eggs was just plain painful.

 

All the arguments I've heard from pro-limit players so far have been either purely emotional or debunkable. If you can't make logical arguments for the limits staying, perhaps think for a moment just why you're so against removing them. "I don't see why they should be removed" is not a valid argument - this thread is full of reasons why from the people who want the limits gone. Why not embrace the idea of accommodating all kinds of playstyles by giving people the freedom to choose what's best for themselves instead of forcing artificial limitations on everyone? What good, logical reason do you have to restrain the rest of the playerbase?

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I still can't see why they should be unlimited. Four - OK. Further - really, no. What next - more GoNs ?

 

I still can’t see why they should be limited. Halloween works like a charm and lets everyone have as many CBs as they like, which seems like a no brainer in a game that’s all about the freedom to collect as you please. If I want 20 Aegises because all I want to do on Christmas is breed 20 2g Aegis x Moonstone pairs for myself to make a giant checker, why should I be stopped by arbitrary, unnecessary limits? Ditto for the GoNs, who I’d argue are even less of an ‘issue’ because the time it takes to summon them would keep them scarce and a very satisfactory reward for commitment invested.

 

@Nagapie well said.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

Share this post


Link to post

After experiencing my first Valentine's where I didn't need any CB holidays outside of the 2019 ones, I don't see a problem with upping the limit or making them unlimited. 

Share this post


Link to post

I still do not want to see them unlimited. For me, hunting for Halloween CBs is way more stressful and anxiety-inducing than it needs to be due to the lack of limits. The rush never dies down, even as more and more people gain CBs of every breed. I've kind of just accepted that it's not worth trying to get even sets of CBs because it doesn't matter when or how I try to hunt--the biomes are always overcrowded and laggy. Not really fun after the initial excitement wears off. But that makes sense for Halloween, as it's more of a "greedy" holiday. I like that I can focus more on breeding when Valentine's and Christmas roll around. I wouldn't mind seeing the limited increased to 4 (maybe even 2 more each year?) though. As someone who works two jobs, I would be more open to lifting the limits if the biomes never emptied during holidays. That really is my main reason for saying no. 95% of the time, I simply do not have time to wait for more Halloween eggs to spawn because I was unable to catch a single one during the last 30 second drop. When I do have time, it's extremely late and I have to sacrifice sleep to get the eggs I need. Trading for CBs isn't usually an option if you don't already have CBs to swap. So Halloween doesn't "work like a charm" for all of us. 

 

And @Nagapie, I don't think it's really fair to make such a generalized statement that all of the opposing arguments you've heard have been illogical. I could say the same about many anti-limit comments, but I won't as that is the point of discussion: disagreement and growth. Let's actually discuss rather than outright dismiss each other.

 

That's really all I have to add. Probably won't answer if I'm pinged as I rarely check in these days. 

Edited by The Dragoness

Share this post


Link to post

@The Dragoness situations like yours are exactly why I’ve proposed this change as a three step process this time around. It’s not just suddenly NO LIMITS, CHARGE!—limits would remain in place for the initial release (ideally 4 instead of 2 though), so if you’re around the first year things are much the same. It gets harder after that, BUT with Holidays being added cheaply in the shop, the stress can only cut so deep. Can’t catch a single darn Holly? Never fear, they’re in the shop! Yes, it would take some patience if you wanted to buy, say, 4 of everything EXCLUSIVELY from the shop, but it would be a guaranteed payoff for your waiting. In that regard this suggestion would actually improve the current situation for you and others; you’d gain the ability to pick up those Halloweens still eluding you and the people I’ve seen who struggled to get the last Val and Xmas breeds they needed this year due to the biomes not moving (because everyone else is at their limits!) would both see them moving and have a shop backup option.

 

I also wouldn’t mind the 2 more per year bit, but A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away TJ rejected any limit increase that would be based on math. Not sure if his feelings have changed, or if a full site increase would be a different matter (ie starting year everyone can get 2, but a new player who joins in year 3 can immediately grab 6 like everyone else), but for now this is my alternative.

Share this post


Link to post

@The Dragoness I said emotional or debunkable and I said it because I truly see all of the concerns pro-limit people have brought up so far either as solvable or practically nonexistent. The most reasonable concern to me was the case of people catching Omens for trade fodder last year, but even that would most likely be solved with the addition of the holiday dragons to the marketplace. The people who say that it's not a proper solution as it'd 'force' people with less time or worse internet to buy the most wanted dragons off the marketplace don't seem to consider the effect having these dragons in the marketplace for a cheap price would have on their trade value. Just having them up for sale at a cheap price would most likely lower their perceived value to the point where hunting for the last released dragon breed to get trading fodder wouldn't make as much sense as it did last Halloween. I think I may have already mentioned something similar to this before Christmas - I do not remember. At that time I also sought to give a newbie perspective to the conversation in an attempt to talk some sense in to those who claimed that we absolutely had to have the limits to protect newbies. I do not wish to repeat all of that again, but I still stand by what I said back then. I do not see any proper reason to keep the limits.

 

I understand that the way I format my opinions as a straightforward and fiery personality isn't easy to swallow for some people, but I prefer to be truthful and not sugarcoat things overly much. Even your own reason for not wanting the limits removed doesn't really make sense to me logically - what obligation would you have to catch heaps of CBs if the limits were removed? Absolutely none, save for whatever imagined obligation you yourself might come up with. It was never meant to be a competition of who grabs the most CBs. I'm familiar with lacking self-restraint and setting unrealistic goals for myself and as such can kind of see where you're coming from on an emotional level, but that is still not a valid reason to take the chance away from everyone else.

 

Also, when I mentioned logical arguments I suppose I wanted to discourage people coming into this conversation saying simply "No because I don't want to" or "No because I don't see a reason to" without any proper reasoning to back it up. Let's say hypothetically you'd join the conversation just to say "I'm against removing all the limits but okay with raising them to 4". How is that productive? What proper reasoning are you giving for your opinion? Give your post some actual thought, especially if your post challenges the original suggestion. If you don't, you might as well not post in the first place because simple opinions like that are so plentiful that they're essentially worthless. Whether you can back yours up with a proper argument or not is what determines how relevant your opinion is. That is how I see it. I understand some people might see it as extreme, but I don't see those types of comments fruitful at all. You're just trying to put someone else's more thought through suggestion down with your own completely unexplained opinion or better yet, a knee-jerk reaction. From what I've understood, we're supposed to be discussing things here and not voting. Polls are their own thing entirely. Of course, if this forum is actually meant to allow that kind of suffocating behavior and people joining in these conversations want to be a part of it, never mind what I said here.

 

I will revert to merely stalking this topic again. I express my opinions very bluntly, but it's never my opinion to bully or truly upset anyone. Writing these posts always takes way too much time and despite that, all too often it ends with someone either putting words in my mouth or getting offended. The only thing that will cause my opinion to waver will be some numbers from TJ or a very valid, previously unmentioned concern anyway so it's probably for the best that I refrain from testing my luck further for no good reason.

Edited by Nagapie

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Nagapie said:

@The Dragoness I said emotional or debunkable and I said it because I truly see all of the concerns pro-limit people have brought up so far either as solvable or practically nonexistent. The most reasonable concern to me was the case of people catching Omens for trade fodder last year, but even that would most likely be solved with the addition of the holiday dragons to the marketplace. The people who say that it's not a proper solution as it'd 'force' people with less time or worse internet to buy the most wanted dragons off the marketplace don't seem to consider the effect having these dragons in the marketplace for a cheap price would have on their trade value. Just having them up for sale at a cheap price would most likely lower their perceived value to the point where hunting for the last released dragon breed to get trading fodder wouldn't make as much sense as it did last Halloween.

 

One thing I do not give a TOSS about is trading value. I would be entirely happy with seeing them in the store - and cheaply, too. I totally hate the dragon stock market.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't like the idea of no limits. I would be okay with increased limits.

Share this post


Link to post

An idea for those who are concerned about potentially not being able to catch anything if there were no limits- slightly tweak the proposal. So:

  • Year 1 - Release year, everyone can only collect 2 or 4, depending on limits.
  • Year 2 - Year after release, everyone can collect ANOTHER 2 or 4, but it is still limited. Possibly add to marketplace as well?
  • Year 3 - Second year after release, no limits and everyone can go wild. Also possibly add to marketplace?

That way, you have two whole years where everyone is on a level playing field and you have a very good chance at getting the eggs you need. And no one can then complain that they can't catch eggs if they miss two years of releases; two years of a chance is plenty of time (and I say that as someone who HAS missed two years of events before!)

 

I really like the idea of a constant biome as well. If you had a constant biome, with marketplace purchases, then I can't see how anyone could miss getting CB's without just not coming on the site at all.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Two of my favourite breeds in the entire game are Holidays - the Snows, and the Floral-Crowneds. (not sure if you could tell by my sig XD) 

 

That said, I am in full support of this suggestion. Unlimiting the Holiday breeds makes perfect sense to me; arbitrarily limited certain breeds is counterproductive to the general direction of DragonCave in the first place. It's meant to be about collecting and breeding whatever you want however you please, and lineage-building is a HUGE part of that, especially as a massive chunk of the playerbase, if not the majority, focuses on building their own special lineages that they love.

In the current climate, building the lineages I want - Snows and Floral-Crowneds - is incredibly stressful and difficult. It's fairly easy for me to get hold of Holiday kin for those breeds, because for most of the year their only purpose in breeding is for kin - but getting the actual dragons I need is a nightmare. I only have two CB of each myself, and even with a friend who is willing to breed for me, that's only four at best. And I don't expect my friend to give me ALL of their exclusive breeding for these dragons. That's made harder because one of my Floral-Crowneds is very special to me and I am unwilling to breed him during the actual Valentines event because I don't want anyone else to have his offspring. That sounds selfish, but I want to have control of how his children are named, and that's nigh on impossible if other people have them. So every 2G Snow and Floral-Crowned I have (and particularly the Florals as they're newer) is from either stressful trading that I honestly rarely participate in, because trading during the Holiday events takes up valuable eggslots, or exhaustive AP hunting.

 

Even as an experienced player, the Holidays would be remarkably less stressful for me if I could focus on breeding the pairs I want, and request breeding from my friend without severely imposing on their ability to breed for the self, rather than the huge mental effort of constantly hunting in every spare moment. As it stands, I simply stand no chance of obtaining all the 2G Snows/Florals I need for my lineage projects in any reasonable timeframe and low-stress manner.

 

The clue is in the name, after all. The limits are limiting. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/25/2019 at 4:47 PM, angelicdragonpuppy said:

We've had two rounds of old CB Holidays returning now; I'm sure statistically the dropoff in people using them has been pretty significant? If so that'd be all the more reason to argue for this, if not keeping things easy for everyone is precisely why I suggested the three-step system.

Things are more balanced than they were before last year, but "more balanced" doesn't mean "there"—it already looks like there will be a lot of demand for older Holiday CBs this year, and that's not even taking into account all of the people that join between now and December.

 

Overall, event eggs may appear in the market next season, but I've already said that the market is not meant to supplant/be easier than cave hunting. This means that the first post's assumption that market availability is enough to compensate for significantly increased (literally no limits on event CBs) demand for every egg in the event biomes is wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

Things are more balanced than they were before last year, but "more balanced" doesn't mean "there"—it already looks like there will be a lot of demand for older Holiday CBs this year, and that's not even taking into account all of the people that join between now and December.

 

Overall, event eggs may appear in the market next season, but I've already said that the market is not meant to supplant/be easier than cave hunting. This means that the first post's assumption that market availability is enough to compensate for significantly increased (literally no limits on event CBs) demand for every egg in the event biomes is wrong.

 

 

Would any of these alternative ideas (or additions to the main idea) be more palatable?

 

- Have eggs drop nonstop in the Holiday biomes (or even during normal times of the year) rather than generating at timed intervals

- Having staggered limit raises, either per user (ie the first year you join, you can get 2 of every Val/Xmas breed. The next year your limit is 4. Next year is 6) or for the whole site (ie even if a user joins 3 years after the release of Val X, they can grab 6 Val X eggs, just like everyone else who's been playing since the first release)

- Or... it's late and I'm tired but I'm sure there are other ideas people will think of, haha.

 

I'm sure there's a middle ground to be found here, where limits can be eased out without making things too hard for everyone.

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.