Unlimited CB Xmas/Valentines - done in a BALANCED way

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The last market suggestion was missing what I was going for, so here we go again.

 

This suggestion is a combination suggestion, one meant to make unlimited CB Xmas/Valentines a stress-free possibility:

 

1. Year 1 a Christmas / Valentine dragon is released, everyone can only collect 4.

2. Year 2 they're available in the market during their season.

3. Year 2 they have no limits restricting cave catching.

 

TJ's stated reason for being against unlimited Xmas/Valentines was this:

Quote

 

but the motive is better served by keeping demand (comparatively) low and ensuring that people who missed out in previous years have an easier time grabbing the limited eggs.

 

I generally try to be the source of as little stress around the various holidays as possible.

 

 

So this is an attempt to make things more broadly, easily available--without stress--during the holidays (...honestly I feel Valentines is less popular than Halloween and doesn't even need such fanciness, but I digress!)

 

Let's go over each suggestion.

1) An initial limit of 4 means the first year release is very simple. While the limit IS doubled from the current one, many people can attest to watching new holiday eggs sit untaken for minutes at a time near the end of the drop, so there's already surplus to be used. Plus, the more people in the biomes, the more eggs are dropped at every release, so the number would raise to begin with.

2) Next year they're available in the market. I imagine they'd be pretty cheap, based on the influx that happens around then. Prices could even be set, if needed. This ensures that anyone who is worried or low on time and doesn't feel they can catch from the cave now has a safe back-up option. It would leave out extremely new players, but realistically this shouldn't impact them that much; aside from only having 4 slots, most newbies are dazzled by the amount of options available to them, and probably won't fuss too much over getting picky with specifics. Not to mention all the newbies who unwittingly pick up non-holidays during limited release windows! So I think all is well here.

3) And then, of course, they'd be available in the cave as well. Aside from being a more exciting option for those who prefer to hunt, I think this would actually IMPROVE how easy it is to get old holidays from the cave; people mentioned last year that the holiday biomes hardly moved at all due to everyone being locked and unable to take eggs, which meant the biomes didn't really move and people couldn't find the one or two breeds they still needed. Get things moving, and that issue is alleviated.

 

As for the WHY of this? First and foremost, the more dragons we can collect to do as we please with, the merrier. Secondly, it gives people more "safe" lineage building options. Most of us older players remember the stink when a very well-represented CB Holly was killed, altering hundreds of lineages into carrying tombstones. There was no way to safeguard against such things because to make higher gen lineages you HAD to rely on other people, thanks to the limits. In this case, no more! If you're really worried (or want a specific theme), you can do everything yourself. This is especially important for things like Aegises, where if you want a CB of each variety you only get... one dragon, which doesn't go that far in most lineages. Third and far from least--I think it will actively encourage gifting! During Halloween I have no trouble both getting and giving thanks I and others need. During Xmas/Valentines, with CBs so scarce, that's much harder. From arranging trades over the last few days myself, I know I didn't have next to any CBs to breed due to needing my few for my own plans, and the few others who had CBs available often had them snatched up in an instant because the demand is so great. So I think raising the limits would actually CONTRIBUTE to the spirit of sharing these holidays are meant to exemplify.

[KrazyKarp]

Yes please!. I saw you listed a bunch of reasons, a lot of us just have the simple reason of wanting more CB holidays for no particular purpose or anything. Which may be greedy-sounding to some, but I mean, it's a dragon collecting game where we all take in whatever dragons we want so...

 

Also though! The gifting aspect is huge for me. I can catch any of the Christmas and Valentine CBs. I've seen on the DC Discord that people still have trouble catching CB Hollies, which goes back to the last sentence in my first paragraph of this post where if you can't catch from the cave you're screwed. I would absolutely love to catch CBs for people who have difficulty and/or are too busy.

Edited December 19, 2018 by KrazyKarp

[DragonLady86]

Sooo, no picking them up in holiday biome the year after their released?  What if you missed a year? you have to wait TWO to pick them up?  That doesn't seem fair. 

[osmarks]

@DragonLady86 I don't think that's actually what it says.

[VixenDra]

18 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

Sooo, no picking them up in holiday biome the year after their released?  What if you missed a year? you have to wait TWO to pick them up?  That doesn't seem fair. 

That's not what was written.

What was written is that, let's take Garlands for example(although it's too late for them ofc), if this suggestion had been implemented a year or 2 ago: in 2017 one could have caught 4 CB Garlands. This year, 2018, one could have caught as many of Garlands as one wants plus be able to buy them from the shop for Shards if wants to.

Ofc irl the first breed that could go with the 4CBs in its initial release year would apply to the 2020 breed, because it's already too late for 2019 I bet.

All past breeds would become unlimited.

(Unless there's a typo in the OP and angelic meant year 3 in the 3rd point, then Karp nailed it)

 

Yes, please, this suggestion.

I could finally put my Shards to any use... because right now I have literally nothing to buy there... (I'd go for 5 CBs per breed: 2 adults, 2 S2s and S1 - and make neat homosexual sets the same way I did with chickens - lack of lineage implies they lost their "legal papers":P; others would probably go in checker pairs mostly, I bet People would be doubling the Aegises compared to other breeds - for obvious reasons)

 

Right now there's literally no valid excuse left to keep the limits as is...

And in Market? who needs limits in the Market? What purpose could that possibly serve... other than stil discriminating certain goals...

 

(plus, increase the number of eggs that spawn in the Holiday biome because that's also broken)

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by VixenDra

[tjekan]

It's very complicated. I'd rather just bump the limit up to four and leave it there. TJ said he'd see how the holiday went this year, and I'm quite confident that he'll find that even the most casual of players have zero problems getting their eggs, so I'm hopeful that next year he'll just increase the limit and see how that goes. Honestly four eggs of each breed would be great for me, and wouldn't imbalance anything, but if there's still a need he can always increase it further in a later year. Incremental is better than arcane IMHO.

[VixenDra]

4 minutes ago, tjekan said:

It's very complicated. I'd rather just bump the limit up to four and leave it there. TJ said he'd see how the holiday went this year, and I'm quite confident that he'll find that even the most casual of players have zero problems getting their eggs, so I'm hopeful that next year he'll just increase the limit and see how that goes. Honestly four eggs of each breed would be great for me, and wouldn't imbalance anything, but if there's still a need he can always increase it further in a later year. Incremental is better than arcane IMHO.

It's not a tiny bit more complicated than limit on CBs but no limit on bred...

[Keileon]

Yeah, I'd be happy with just bumping the CB limits to 4, maybe throw them in the market. Maybe keep my thought from the other thread of 2 from cave + 2 from market.

[osmarks]

I'd prefer not having market-exclusive stuff except for Prizes, and if you can only get 2 via the market that sounds like half-exclusivity at least.

[VixenDra]

5 minutes ago, osmarks said:

I'd prefer not having market-exclusive stuff except for Prizes, and if you can only get 2 via the market that sounds like half-exclusivity at least.

The OP thankfully uses the Market only as an additional extension tool, not the only one.

 

(sorry, was just making sure new visitors don't get the false idea this suggestion is about that:P becuase you didn't quote what you were reffering to)

Edited December 19, 2018 by VixenDra

[osmarks]

Just now, VixenDra said:

The OP thankfully uses the Market only as an additional extension tool, not the only one.

Yes, I saw, I was replying to @Keileon.

[Ruby Eyes]

16 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

No they're still in the holiday biome, but retaining the limit of four, at least for the second year. If that makes sense. I suppose it isn't very clear in the post.

 

Edit: So more accurately, this is how I interpreted it:

1. Year 1: a Christmas / Valentine dragon is released, everyone can only collect 4.

2. Year 2: they're available in the market during their season as unlimited, but retain the limit of 4 in the holiday biome

3. Year 3: they have no limits restricting cave catching or market buying

Why? The OP clearly states that for year 2, it would have BOTH Market holidays AND no more cave limits. Basically limiting only holidays from the 6 standard biomes where they drop in year 1, but making the holiday biome (where they drop starting year 2) unlimited for everything.

 

Personally, I'd be okay with #1 already. #2 and #3 would be a nice bonus.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Ruby Eyes
can't type

[KrazyKarp]

13 minutes ago, Keileon said:

Yeah, I'd be happy with just bumping the CB limits to 4, maybe throw them in the market. Maybe keep my thought from the other thread of 2 from cave + 2 from market.

There's not really a point in a market limit considering it doesn't align with TJ's reasoning for limits in the first place, which is stress-free holidays. So then we circle back around to "well we might as well make it unlimited in the market" -> "but that doesn't align with the market philosophy" and we're back to square one.

 

5 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Why? The OP clearly states that for year 2, it would have BOTH Market holidays AND no more cave limits. Basically limiting only holidays from the 6 standard biomes where they drop in year 1, but making the holiday biome (where they drop starting year 2) unlimited for everything.

 

Personally, I'd be okay with #1 already. #2 and #3 would be a nice bonus.

I'm stupid, I completely misinterpreted the OP. What the OP is suggesting is perfect, nevermind my misinterpretation.

Edited December 19, 2018 by KrazyKarp

[Sazandora]

I'm fine with raising the CB limits to 4, but not removing them altogether. I have no problems with having just 2 CBs. Makes the holidays way less stressful when I don't have to scramble like a madman to grab at least SOMETHING. Keeps things stress-free for newbies, too.

[tjekan]

11 minutes ago, VixenDra said:

It's not a tiny bit more complicated than limit on CBs but no limit on bred...

 

If it happens this way, I'll be happy with it. It has logic to it (why are these breeds unlimited while that one isn't? Because that one is new and isnt in the market yet.)

 

It just seems unnecessarily complex when the limit could so easily just be altered or removed.

 

Also, the new eggs each year are THE easiest to get for anyone. They flood the cave for three days straight. I think my cat could catch them LOL. They need limits less than CB hollies, not more.

[KrazyKarp]

3 minutes ago, Sazandora said:

I'm fine with raising the CB limits to 4, but not removing them altogether. I have no problems with having just 2 CBs. Makes the holidays way less stressful when I don't have to scramble like a madman to grab at least SOMETHING. Keeps things stress-free for newbies, too.

Unlimited has different options:

1. cave grabbing

2. trading

3. gifting (it happens, just not now because people literally can't due to limits!)

4. market

 

Among one of the four ways, everyone is guaranteed CB holidays if limits are lifted. Versus now with only the first way, cave grabbing, which people still have difficulty with, so it's actually more stressful right now than it would be without limits.

[VixenDra]

1 minute ago, Sazandora said:

I'm fine with raising the CB limits to 4, but not removing them altogether. I have no problems with having just 2 CBs. Makes the holidays way less stressful when I don't have to scramble like a madman to grab at least SOMETHING. Keeps things stress-free for newbies, too.

Please note the unlimited part is only for the years following the release of the given breed... meaning you even can't scrample like a mandman to grab them in their initial release year because those are still to be limited according to this Suggestion... what kind of stress does it add to you if you're to be allowed to buy more than the limit in the Market for shards if you wanted in following years? Are you stressed with other Market-available breeds BECAUSE they are available in the market? or maybe the Market actually relieves some of your stress because if you miss a regular release you can always buy it in the Market if you don't manage to find it in the biomes when you're back?

 

Breed limits also limit playstyles/goal types... just ebcause you don't need any mroe than 2CBs, or I dont' need any more than 5 CBs, doesn't mean others don't need 8CBs or whatever their playstyles and goals are...

But the last thing this Suggestion woudl do  is to add stress... on the contrary it would relieve it plus also encourage gifting!

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@tjekan I really really want an endgame goal of unlimited. I think Halloween works fine overall and there wouldn’t be issues doing the same thing for other holidays. Unfortunately TJ disagrees, ergo the elaborate stress reduction strategy (although like Vixendra I don’t think it’s all that more complex than what we already have with limited CBs / unlimited bred)

[Sazandora]

I could consider myself lucky that I have all the time in the world during holidays, my family doesn't really celebrate Christmas so it's just one day amongst others for me. But I'm mostly thinking of people who do celebrate the holidays and can't be around when the holiday event happens -- if holiday dragons' limits were to be removed, they'd probably get nothing while no-lifers like me get more than the usual 2 CBs. It's relieving that I can just go to the biomes and grab my two CBs and that's it, I can just sit back and focus on other things without having to camp the biomes every waking hour. I had enough problems catching Hollies and Valentine '09s last year that I... did something pretty terrible out of frustration, I do not want that to happen again. Of course I'd love to have more CBs of certain breeds (Radiant Angels ), but I sure have no problems with being limited to just two. Raising the limits to... say, 4 or 6 or at most 8 would still keep the holidays mostly stress-free while letting everyone get more CBs of holiday breeds.

 

And some people don't even have forum accounts so gifting is out of the question for them, unless of course they had friends who also play Dragon Cave and not everyone has those. Case in point: my friend who joined Dragon Cave last spring, and does not want to make a forum account due to the atmosphere in here.

[Soulsborne]

Experiencing first hand how difficult it was to get Omens from the biome this Halloween I am extremely grateful that Christmas has the limits in place. Of course, those who already have everything might want more but there are still many people in the biome today and getting even the limits for all breeds one doesn't have yet is stressful enough.

 

That being said, I would be fine with raising the limit to 4 or allowing those who already have their 2 to buy additional eggs from the market.

 

(Something else that would probably be too hard to implement and thus not a realistic suggestion:) As soon as the new Holiday dragons drop in all other biomes the eggs in the special biome could be free for all... that gives newbies / people that need to catch up with many breeds still almost a week to do so without any additional people grabbing stuff to trade / gift / keep.

 

(the trading part is what makes me so reluctant to remove the limits... this Halloween so many people caught Omens just because they were rare and put them up in the hub to make a profit - while many of us struggled to even get 1 or 2 CB ones)

[Sazandora]

Please no forcing people to buy from the market if they want more. I do not have a metric crapton of CB metals and I do not have strict scroll goals, so I do have plenty of uses for the market and I'm trying to save up for my very first CB Gold. I do not want to be set back for weeks or even months just to get more CB event dragons that people without such issues can buy. Raise the limits to... say, four and put the holiday dragons on the market at a very low price, but also keep the holiday biome so those of us who are saving up for something nice can have an alternative way to get more CBs.

[KrazyKarp]

What if the holiday biome never ran out of eggs? There would constantly be eggs in it, with no need to refill since it would never be empty. Even though I fully support this suggestion, I get it, people want to catch what they need fairly easily, but I also ask for those people to put themselves in the shoes of others who desire no limits, and of course vice versa. In fact, some people have trouble with Hollies still, and of course we all saw the Omen craze. So actually, regardless of whether this suggestion flies or not, you really need constant eggs in the holiday biome for everyone to have a low-stress holiday time at DC, no matter what limits we're talking about.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

1 hour ago, Sazandora said:

I'm fine with raising the CB limits to 4, but not removing them altogether. I have no problems with having just 2 CBs. Makes the holidays way less stressful when I don't have to scramble like a madman to grab at least SOMETHING. Keeps things stress-free for newbies, too.

 

28 minutes ago, Soulsborne said:

Experiencing first hand how difficult it was to get Omens from the biome this Halloween I am extremely grateful that Christmas has the limits in place. Of course, those who already have everything might want more but there are still many people in the biome today and getting even the limits for all breeds one doesn't have yet is stressful enough.

 

That being said, I would be fine with raising the limit to 4 or allowing those who already have their 2 to buy additional eggs from the market.

 

(Something else that would probably be too hard to implement and thus not a realistic suggestion:) As soon as the new Holiday dragons drop in all other biomes the eggs in the special biome could be free for all... that gives newbies / people that need to catch up with many breeds still almost a week to do so without any additional people grabbing stuff to trade / gift / keep.

 

(the trading part is what makes me so reluctant to remove the limits... this Halloween so many people caught Omens just because they were rare and put them up in the hub to make a profit - while many of us struggled to even get 1 or 2 CB ones)

 

Generally I agree with these.

 

If I’m honest, I don’t see a problem with the holidays as they are right now. I don’t really care if the limits are raised to 4 or not, but I don’t agree with unlimited. There are a lot of people who can’t be as active as others on Christmas, and some who have nothing else to do but sit and snaffle as many of one breed as they want. Capping the breed at 2 (or 4, I don’t care) ensures that people don’t get too greedy. A lot of other suggestions have been turned down because of this exact reasoning, and I think it fits here: “Share the love”! For such limited breeds, it’s be unfair for people to gobble up as many as they like and leave others with none. 

 

Bonus: I’m just gonna add that I think it’s nice to see these dragons as “special limited edition”. They’re only available at a certain time every year so you can’t get too many. Halloween is different because it’s all about taking as many goodies as you want, but Christmas and Valentines are limited time only so don’t take too many to leave some for everyone else!

Edited December 19, 2018 by RealWilliamShakespeare

[osmarks]

A constantly filled holiday biome sounds like a great idea!

[Sazandora]

6 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

What if the holiday biome never ran out of eggs? There would constantly be eggs in it, with no need to refill since it would never be empty. Even though I fully support this suggestion, I get it, people want to catch what they need fairly easily, but I also ask for those people to put themselves in the shoes of others who desire no limits, and of course vice versa. In fact, some people have trouble with Hollies still, and of course we all saw the Omen craze. So actually, regardless of whether this suggestion flies or not, you really need constant eggs in the holiday biome for everyone to have a low-stress holiday time at DC, no matter what limits we're talking about.

This I can certainly agree with. I agree with @osmarks, it's a great idea.