BSA Nurture for hatchies

[purplehaze]

And I know it's not a real popular idea but I hope it would stack with incubate! I wanna raise mor' dragunz!  I doubt that's going to happen, though, so I would be happy with just having it for hatchies that weren't incubated as eggs.

[Sazandora]

Yeah, I'd love to be able to stack both nurture and incubate to really speed things up, but I very much doubt that will ever happen as DC is a game of patience, not instant gratification. But even if nurture didn't stack with incubate, at least I would have lots of uses for it -- I'm a Siyat hoarder. Can't use incubate when raising Siyats, as otherwise they'll hatch green when I want them to be blue or purple.

[borntobefree]

There's really only two who don't want it to be stack-able, almost every one else who's for the idea of nurture, like it being able to be stacked as well, there's really no reason for it not to be stack-able, eggs and hatchies are two different stages. one really doesn't have any thing to do with the other. So again it would be a personal thing to do only one is you really don't like to be able to do both, no ones forcing you to use both nurture and incubate on the same individual.If for some moral reason you feel its wrong by all means don't do it.

The whole reason i want a nurture, is to be able to stack them, while I do take an egg on occasion from the ap, most of the time its from the biome, and my eggs usually pass that 4 day mark somewhere in 3days 15-20 hour mark, so when i inculcate I really only get about 12 hours or so jump-start, my hatchies usually grow a bit slow as well, at somewhere in the 3.15 to 3.20 hour mark.Even with the incubate it takes entirely to long to get them to adults where i can start to breed my own, and make a cb collection. I have days and days where I can no nothing because I'm hatchie and egg locked, it does not make for fun play, and there is no real spam board to interact and have fun on to while away the time.

[Sazandora]

Yes, don't get me wrong -- I'd love for them both to be stackable. I just fear TJ might shoot this one down because it could speed things up a bit too much. Again, DC is a game of patience instead of instant gratification. I don't claim to know exactly how TJ operates, I just go with a gut feeling here. I too would love it if I had some way to make hatchlings grow up sooner.

 

So if Nurture were to be implemented, the best way to make it work is to make it exactly like Incubate but for hatchlings only. No chance to fail because Incubate doesn't have that either, and I don't think Nurture needs a failure chance just to make it "balanced". I'm fine with a longer cooldown though.

[Fuzzbucket]

Two IN THIS THREAD (assuming your're right - I can't be bothered to look.)  There is a very real danger in assuming that the views in a thread here are representative of players as a whole. There have been very many changes over the years, based on threads like this, where players came out of the woodwork and said hey that's AWFUL, why did nobody ask us first. Just saying.

 

You want it stackable because you can't wait, and purple likes the idea, but realises it's not likely - but Sazandora is right  - this IS a game of patience - always has been.

[purplehaze]

I actually think there were a lot more than two people in this thread who did not want it stackable with incubate. It seemed to me that just about everyone who posted early in the thread made that comment. I could be wrong and, like Fuzz, I'm not going back to check.

[HeatherMarie]

While I would love to be able to take two full days off growing time (Incubate plus Nurture) I very much doubt that would happen and frankly I am kind of against 'stacking'. I have always taken the view that you should *need* to put some time and effort into raising your dragons (it's why I'm against trading adults). Taking a whole day off an egg is awesome and can lead to insta-hatchies in some cases, but then you still have to put in some time and effort on that hatchling. And I think that's how it should be. Taking an entire 24 hours off the growing time should be a big deal, and something that can be done once; Either as an egg or a hatchling.

[DragonLady86]

TJ can decide if he wants to allow it to be stackable or not. Depends on if he sees it as too powerful. If it isn't, I would still use this as I rarely incubate eggs, but often find myself waiting on hatchies to grow.  If he's going to reject this suggestion it won't be because of that; it will be the fact that a specific dragon has still not been chosen. First rule of BSA suggestions: pick a dragon THEN decide what it could do.  Don't say "I want this ability" then try to shoehorn a dragon on to it. 

[TJ09]

If a hatchling-targeted "incubate" BSA were to happen, it would 100% not be stackable with egg incubate.

 

Incubate, as-is, is really poorly designed. It's reasonably easy to get enough red dragons that you always have incubate available when you want it. What this means in practice is that, except for a few niche cases (like Siyats, which are relatively new, or needing to stretch the timer to the wire for e.g. a trade), there's never a reason to not use incubate. At that point, I might as well just remove incubate and start all eggs at six days instead of seven. It's not exactly equivalent, but it's pretty close.

 

If a hatchling "incubate" were able to be used on top of the egg one, the same concerns come into play: When would someone ever not use it? What does it add to the game that removing a day from all timers doesn't add? And, as I have a tendency to ask: what's the tradeoff?

 

If it only really exists to smooth out what few rough edges incubate has, it becomes a much more niche action. It also becomes much less useful, but it at least has a solid role that it fills; one that provides value without completely throwing off the balance of everything.

[blockEdragon]

18 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

If a hatchling-targeted "incubate" BSA were to happen, it would 100% not be stackable with egg incubate.

 

Incubate, as-is, is really poorly designed. It's reasonably easy to get enough red dragons that you always have incubate available when you want it. What this means in practice is that, except for a few niche cases (like Siyats, which are relatively new, or needing to stretch the timer to the wire for e.g. a trade), there's never a reason to not use incubate. At that point, I might as well just remove incubate and start all eggs at six days instead of seven. It's not exactly equivalent, but it's pretty close.

 

If a hatchling "incubate" were able to be used on top of the egg one, the same concerns come into play: When would someone ever not use it? What does it add to the game that removing a day from all timers doesn't add? And, as I have a tendency to ask: what's the tradeoff?

 

If it only really exists to smooth out what few rough edges incubate has, it becomes a much more niche action. It also becomes much less useful, but it at least has a solid role that it fills; one that provides value without completely throwing off the balance of everything.

I respectfully disagree with that sentiment, the whole point is building up enough reds. You're rewarded for collecting the BSA dragon with a useful trick. That's kinda like saying trophies are pointless and that everyone should just start out with platinum-level slots, it takes away the reward. I'm not saying everything has to be locked behind a reward system but a few goals that are actually meaningful/helpful are a good thing.

 

Collecting things that reward you by letting you collect things more efficiently is a pretty solid design if you ask me.

[HeatherMarie]

Re Incubate being equivalent to just starting the timer lower: I personally like that we have a fairly high timer to begin with and then can choose whether to Incubate or not. Besides Siyats and trading, I also choose not to Incubate if I'm low on freezes and need to freeze at stage-1. In that case it's beneficial to have the egg higher-timed, so it doesn't hatch until I get a freeze back. 

 

I know a lot of people don't like to have more then a certain number of a breed on their scroll (a 'family' or a few pairs or whatever), and yes that's their decision but I do think that means that not everyone is going to be using Incubate all the time. Or Nurture. If your scroll-goals only include 4 pairs of Reds, for example, you have to be pretty selective about what you Incubate, especially since the cooldown is relatively long. (I have close to 110 Reds and Incubate everything, but I know that's not true for everyone...)

 

(I'm kind of curious why TJ thinks Incubate is poorly-designed, and how he would want to change it.... It sounds like using it on everything was not intended? Interesting.)

[borntobefree]

56 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

If a hatchling-targeted "incubate" BSA were to happen, it would 100% not be stackable with egg incubate.

 

Incubate, as-is, is really poorly designed. It's reasonably easy to get enough red dragons that you always have incubate available when you want it. What this means in practice is that, except for a few niche cases (like Siyats, which are relatively new, or needing to stretch the timer to the wire for e.g. a trade), there's never a reason to not use incubate. At that point, I might as well just remove incubate and start all eggs at six days instead of seven. It's not exactly equivalent, but it's pretty close.

 

If a hatchling "incubate" were able to be used on top of the egg one, the same concerns come into play: When would someone ever not use it? What does it add to the game that removing a day from all timers doesn't add? And, as I have a tendency to ask: what's the trade off?

 

If it only really exists to smooth out what few rough edges incubate has, it becomes a much more niche action. It also becomes much less useful, but it at least has a solid role that it fills; one that provides value without completely throwing off the balance of everything.

Now see this is why I was saying it could have some fail rate or negative, for instance maybe only a pure blooded version of the bsa dragon can perform the nurture, or the female only, in a high male breed. or a 10% success rate, and there really is no way to get an instant dragon, it still takes a many hours to get an egg from the ap to turn into a hatchie  even using an incubate on it at a 4.1 day egg will make it 3.1 days, but it will still take time to get it hatched, and no matter what the hatchie stage has no time off ability at all, that's the crux of the problem, game play for me is trying to get to the collections and then raising my own dragons. while patience is a virtue the hatchie time is just a bit to long7 almost 8 days to go from catching an egg in the biome to finally getting your dragon is just game lag.

 

If It can not be stack-able could we get a reduction in the hatchie times? That didn't even seem like an option, and from what i understand some like seeing how many clicks they can get and more time is in the hatchie is more desirable, like what is it the Bolt dragon adds a day to hatchie? So there are times some would not use it, and times like holidays where it would definately help in your breeding when you are trying to breed your collections, and not stuff the ap with the eggs you don't feel worth because they take up space, I am always rescuing ap hatchies, breaks my heart for those little guys. There are definite times I wouldn't use it, like reality life is busy and don't have time to spend online I'd move slower with what i did with my babies, but the long hatchie interval definitely puts a damper on my excitement when i am stuck for 4 or 5 days, after finally catching an egg I've been trying for, spending hours in the biomes and get beaten to the egg every time.

 

BTW TJ, Thanks for stopping by!

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Re Incubate being equivalent to just starting the timer lower: I personally like that we have a fairly high timer to begin with and then can choose whether to Incubate or not. Besides Siyats and trading, I also choose not to Incubate if I'm low on freezes and need to freeze at stage-1. In that case it's beneficial to have the egg higher-timed, so it doesn't hatch until I get a freeze back. 

 

I know a lot of people don't like to have more then a certain number of a breed on their scroll (a 'family' or a few pairs or whatever), and yes that's their decision but I do think that means that not everyone is going to be using Incubate all the time. Or Nurture. If your scroll-goals only include 4 pairs of Reds, for example, you have to be pretty selective about what you Incubate, especially since the cooldown is relatively long. (I have close to 110 Reds and Incubate everything, but I know that's not true for everyone...)

 

Thanks TJ; I totally agree about the stacking. But I'd like to keep incubate, which is much more useful - given that we have fewer egg slots than hatchling slots. And I agree with Heather here, too. We can choose, with an egg. And we do have to decide whether to have a red army.

 

and @borntobefree

Quote

but the long hatchie interval definitely puts a damper on my excitement when i am stuck for 4 or 5 days, 

 

Exactly. This is simply about impatience. NOT a good reason for a BSA. IF it were reduced - will you later ask for an insta-hatch BSA, , because it's still too long for you to have to wait ?

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Echoing what a few people are saying here: I for one was NEVER in favour of incubate and nurture stacking. I’m with HeatherMarie that I don’t always incubate because sometimes I’m not going to be around the site for a while and don’t want to risk my egg getting to low time. Sometimes I just don’t want to, and sometimes I forget!

 

I definitely support nurture, and wouldn’t even mind if it was on a rarer breed if it meant we got it lol

[Sazandora]

I too am curious about what is wrong with Incubate as-is, but I really don't want it to be changed as it's just fine right now, I use it all the time except for when I'm raising Siyats. And because of that I wouldn't use Nurture all that much, but then again I have nothing against it so I support it. I really don't think it needs any more drawbacks other than not stacking with Incubate.

 

As for what dragon this BSA would be given to, I vote for Frilled dragons.

[HeatherMarie]

6 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Exactly. This is simply about impatience. NOT a good reason for a BSA. IF it were reduced - will you later ask for an insta-hatch BSA, , because it's still too long for you to have to wait ?

 

I have to agree with this. I totally get the frustration in getting an egg that can hatch fairly fast (like from the AP) and then being stuck for multiple days with the hatchling... But again, this game has *never* been about instant gratification. You have to put some time and effort into your growing dragons, and I think that is a good thing. And it's not like there is *nothing* to do while the hatchling grows... You can name, breed, describe, plan lineages, organize your scroll, etc etc even if you are at the growing-things limit. And honestly, how often is it that you are at the growing-things limit with *nothing* growing up for the full 3 days of hatchling-time? Even I rarely have that happen, and I'm an avid AP hunter so I almost always have low-timed eggs and high-timed hatchlings on my scroll. 

 

I get the annoyance, I really do, especially because we *can* take a day off eggs, that makes the hatchling time seem even longer. But this really is just a suggestion to alleviate impatience. 

 

(Also, I'm going to say again that I see no reason at all for only purebreds or whatever to be able to 'nurture' a hatchling, it makes no sense and seems to be a hurdle just for hurdle's sake. If the BSA has to have a downside besides just not stacking with Incubate, lengthen the cooldown or give it a fail rate, something that actually makes sense.)

[osmarks]

It'd be useful as an alternative to Incubate when you traded for a hatchling or something. I support this.

[animatedrose]

I also don't really see what is wrong with Incubate. The only way you can "use it on everything" is if you go to the lengths of amassing a huge army of Reds. That takes time to do. And once you do manage to amass that number, it pretty much is a reward to be able to do it to everything. And the easy limit to it? Hatchie-lock. If you Incubate everything you get, eventually you're going to hit hatchie-lock and you will have to wait, no matter what you do.

 

I agree that if Nurture became a thing, as much as I'd love it to, it shouldn't stack with Incubate. But I disagree that any hurdles should rely on lineage or gender. It's called a BSA, a BREED Specific Action. Not a GENDER Specific Action or a PUREBLOOD Specific Action. BREED. As in, ALL members of that breed can perform it. You're asking for a completely separate set of actions with that demand, borntobefree. Give it a longer cooldown if all else but other than that, have it not much different than Incubate.

 

Dragon Cave is about patience. As much as we all love instant gratification, you can't always have that. And the waiting gives me a reason not to sit here for hours and hours and hours, staring at pixel eggs in hopes that something will happen.

[olympe]

18 hours ago, TJ09 said:

What this means in practice is that, except for a few niche cases (like Siyats, which are relatively new, or needing to stretch the timer to the wire for e.g. a trade), there's never a reason to not use incubate.

Actually, there is. Raising a Prize egg. If you incubate them and try to hatch them ASAP, you only manage to get it sick. Just saying.  

[Fuzzbucket]

8 hours ago, olympe said:

Actually, there is. Raising a Prize egg. If you incubate them and try to hatch them ASAP, you only manage to get it sick. Just saying.  

 

Also a zyu

[animatedrose]

And Avatars, in some cases. Never had a zyu or avatar NOT get sick with Incubate. Very rarely will I have a non-sick Incubated Shimmerscale or Tinsel, but it HAS happened. Not recommended, though. Better to just Ward and ER it out normally, then fog when hatched.

Edited January 17, 2019 by animatedrose

[Imzadi]

On 1/15/2019 at 8:21 AM, purplehaze said:

And I know it's not a real popular idea but I hope it would stack with incubate! I wanna raise mor' dragunz!  I doubt that's going to happen, though, so I would be happy with just having it for hatchies that weren't incubated as eggs.

Admittedly, there have been times when I long for nurture. (Usually around holidays, or if I've been doing a lot of trading and have a bunch of hatchies offered.)   The rest of the time, it is not so bad to wait...though if we could nurture a hatchie that had not been incubated as an egg, it would  be fantastic...please please please.

[aussieJJDude]

I would be happy if incubate was just extended to hatchies, and if it has been used prior - like on an egg, similar to how you can only incubate an egg once - it has the message that it is unabled to be incubated. Still gives people control, but doesn't become high an mighty - and useful for siyats, so you can still incubate, just later on.....

[Fuzzbucket]

That would do fine. Nice and simple. 

[olympe]

On 1/16/2019 at 7:28 AM, borntobefree said:

while patience is a virtue the hatchie time is just a bit to long7 almost 8 days to go from catching an egg in the biome to finally getting your dragon is just game lag.

 

If It can not be stack-able could we get a reduction in the hatchie times? That didn't even seem like an option, and from what i understand some like seeing how many clicks they can get and more time is in the hatchie is more desirable, like what is it the Bolt dragon adds a day to hatchie? So there are times some would not use it, and times like holidays where it would definately help in your breeding when you are trying to breed your collections, and not stuff the ap with the eggs you don't feel worth because they take up space, I am always rescuing ap hatchies, breaks my heart for those little guys. There are definite times I wouldn't use it, like reality life is busy and don't have time to spend online I'd move slower with what i did with my babies, but the long hatchie interval definitely puts a damper on my excitement when i am stuck for 4 or 5 days, after finally catching an egg I've been trying for, spending hours in the biomes and get beaten to the egg every time.

Uhm, it doesn't take more than 6 days from catching an egg in a biome to having an adult, if you manage their views well. Maybe a couple hours longer, but that's it. And a whole day less with Incubate. So how do you manage to get stuck for 4-5 days without catching and/or breeding anything?