Add Holidays to Market in season (no limits)

[Jazeki]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

I probably wouldn't be willing to spend my shards on holidays this year, but next year is a distinct possibility. Because I'm really afraid that gold prices will go through the roof once the first people will buy them en mass.

I'm with Olympe here. I need CB golds for lineages more than CB holidays right now, so I would definitely buy one the following year if not this year (depending on price).

[tjekan]

9 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Adding holidays to the market with a market limit of 2 for a total of four seems to cover everything - BUT - would you use that ? I wouldn't. I am saving for other, more important to me, stuff. So it shouldn't affect the game significantly.

 

I would. There's nothing else in the market I need. I wouldn't buy two more of everything, obviously, but I'd buy two more aegises for sure.

 

That it won't affect the game significantly is good, actually. A major change isn't what's wanted here, just enough of a tweak to feel like a present to people who were lacking one thing or another. The two from biome/two from market idea would help medium-new players with limited holiday time get what they're missing without spending time in the biome, and would provide a small number of new cb's to people who want them and otherwise couldn't have them. The effect would be inherently limited by scroll limits and shards, as well as the inability to trade Market eggs. Most people would probably only buy extras of their favorite breed or one they use in lineages a lot, if at all.

 

I'd actually love to see the Market change during the holiday season so that you can buy anything there, including the extra CB holidays, but you HAVE to send them to somebody else as a gift instead of keeping them on your scroll. That would be much more thematic. However, it would really only be fun for the subset of players who actually know other players, and it would probably just devolve into under the table trading.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I think I'll just lay out all possibilities, just to give my thought on it all.

 

-Should holidays be in the market?

Yes, there's no reason for them not to be, whether or not I myself can benefit from it

 

-How about a limit of 2 from the market?

I'd be okay with this, since my goals usually have me collect 4 male and 4 female CBs of a dragon (and holidays are mono-gender) .. so either 2 from the market and 2 from the cave, or 2 from the market and unlimited from the cave works for me here, (with the exception of aegises)

 

-what about unlimited from the market?

Provided it's not hurting ratios, maybe. However, I'd like to see the prices increase for any holiday that the user is over the cave limit on, if the cave still remains limited. If you really want that extra holiday, and you want to break the limits, you should have to pay 500-600 for it.

If the cave is unlimited, then eh, not sure what to say on the price.

 

As for if I'd use the market for holidays myself- yes. While another CB gold would be nice, I don't need it so much. Partly hoping prizes get added someday, but apart from that, I would use it for holidays if I had no other means to get them.

[tjekan]

2 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Provided it's not hurting ratios, maybe.

 

Are ratios really an issue with holiday eggs? I'd guess not, because they're only available once a year anyway, and during that time, they're never really in competition with non-holiday eggs (since they have a separate biome, and since breeding holiday dragons can never result in a non-holiday egg during holiday season.)

[Dragon_Arbock]

30 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

Are ratios really an issue with holiday eggs? I'd guess not, because they're only available once a year anyway, and during that time, they're never really in competition with non-holiday eggs (since they have a separate biome, and since breeding holiday dragons can never result in a non-holiday egg during holiday season.)

 

I don't know, it's just my guess for why the older breeds would appear less commonly in the cave, as was seeming to be happening (made worse by people not being able to take the more common ones). But if it's not an issue, disregard it.

[Fuzzbucket]

4 hours ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

-what about unlimited from the market?

Provided it's not hurting ratios, maybe. However, I'd like to see the prices increase for any holiday that the user is over the cave limit on, if the cave still remains limited. If you really want that extra holiday, and you want to break the limits, you should have to pay 500-600 for it.

If the cave is unlimited, then eh, not sure what to say on the price.

 

5-600 ? HUNDRED ? On a par with Kingcrownes and Magelight Pygmies ? I don't think so !

[Dragon_Arbock]

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

5-600 ? HUNDRED ? On a par with Kingcrownes and Magelight Pygmies ? I don't think so !

 

I can't even tell if you think that's too high or two low. But if  you've not yet reached your limit they'd only be 100.

[Fuzzbucket]

Way too low for those who have hit the limit.

[tjekan]

5 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

5-600 ? HUNDRED ? On a par with Kingcrownes and Magelight Pygmies ? I don't think so !

 

They're not rare though. They're time-limited, but within that time window, they're extremely common. That would seem to make more sense with their being only available in the market in season but being only moderately priced. Even hollies were dropping constantly every hour last year-- the only thing that made them hard to get was how slowly the biome was moving. Kingcrownes are probably significantly rarer TBH. There's no way they should be on a par with coppers and silvers.

 

Since the market would be primarily benefiting newer players with limited cave-hunting time, I'd certainly want the price to be low enough that people like that could at least afford one of whatever they want. Depending how much shard collecting they're doing, 500 or 600 is 5-10 weeks of playing, which seems fair. How much do the most committed shard collectors have now, like 3000? That's still only 5-6 eggs, and most people wouldn't blow their whole shard stash on holiday eggs even if they were able to. I don't think it's necessary to price the eggs out of people's reach.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Well and I think the other thing with the price too, is that Christmas and valentines are so close to eachother. It's not one holiday you have to save for, it's two.

[Din85]

46 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

They're not rare though. They're time-limited, but within that time window, they're extremely common. That would seem to make more sense with their being only available in the market in season but being only moderately priced. Even hollies were dropping constantly every hour last year-- the only thing that made them hard to get was how slowly the biome was moving. Kingcrownes are probably significantly rarer TBH. There's no way they should be on a par with coppers and silvers.

 

Since the market would be primarily benefiting newer players with limited cave-hunting time, I'd certainly want the price to be low enough that people like that could at least afford one of whatever they want. Depending how much shard collecting they're doing, 500 or 600 is 5-10 weeks of playing, which seems fair. How much do the most committed shard collectors have now, like 3000? That's still only 5-6 eggs, and most people wouldn't blow their whole shard stash on holiday eggs even if they were able to. I don't think it's necessary to price the eggs out of people's reach.

 

 

nah, the 500-600 is for the 3rd an 4th Dragon.

 

I think if you don't have your two already a Price about 100-200 would be ok. I also had struggles last year getting a Holly or Yulbuck, but a higher Price for those who want to go beyond the "cave" Limit should be alright.

 

Edit thoughts: Something like this could later be something like a shard dump, if there are too much around

 

You always have the posibility to look for swaps and so on, if you don't want to pay 500 or more shards...that's stressfull, sure, but fair, I think.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Din85

[Keileon]

I think around 500 is fair, actually. I agree with tjekan-- holidays aren't rare. They're not supposed to be rare. If something is only available for like a week but drops constantly in the cave, the price should be low.

[Ruby Eyes]

But weren't the higher prices supposed to be for holidays you'd purchase to get *beyond* the CB scroll limit?

[Jazeki]

Are users given free shards when they join like we were when the market came out? If so, I think it's very reasonable to charge 100-200 shards for those without CB holidays and 500ish for those already at the 2 limit. There's no reason to make them cost that much for new users when there are tons of people who join around the holidays and wouldn't have been playing for 5 weeks.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jazeki

[Ruby Eyes]

If they join around the holidays, they have ALL the holidays to collect still, but only 4 eggslots. I don't think they'd bother with the Market at all yet.

[tjekan]

2 hours ago, Din85 said:

You always have the posibility to look for swaps and so on, if you don't want to pay 500 or more shards...that's stressfull, sure, but fair, I think.

 

I think it's impossible to swap eggs you buy from the Market, though.

 

It doesn't personally bother me what the price is. I doubt I'd want to buy more than two anyway. I just wouldn't want to see a newer player with their heart set on a specific breed be unable to afford it. Making market eggs cost more if you own fewer of that breed seems like it would be unnecessarily complicated to implement, especially considering that the breed limits and finite shards would keep people from buying many eggs anyway, but I would be fine with it.

[olympe]

The problem is we cannot cater everything to the newest of players. And there's always next year...

[tjekan]

30 minutes ago, olympe said:

The problem is we cannot cater everything to the newest of players. And there's always next year...

 

That's true. I'm just wondering what the downside of making the holiday eggs cost 400-500 shards would be, exactly. It would allow even new players to buy at least one. If there were some older and more active players who decided to buy six, well, so what? It's not as if the market would run out, or even as if they could game the system by selling them. They'd just have no more shards and some extra wintermagi. Not seeing the downside to catering to new players on this one.

[olympe]

@tjekan That pricing suggestion was only meant for holiday eggs that go over the scroll limits, though. The first two (if you didn't catch them, that is) are supposed to be cheaper.

Edited December 5, 2018 by olympe

[Shadowdrake]

No offense but I think this is overcomplicating things. Aside from fixing a glitch, TJ has shown no oversight or purposeful adjustments of prices in market and most implementations of suggestions have been fairly simple and straightforward, plus he has already shot down the "unfreeze holidays for the exception of holidays", so I don't believe he will go for the "one set price at one amount and another price at the next" suggestion especially when it will only be holidays that it affects. For now the simplest implementations are 1) have market eggs count towards the total 2 cb limit, 2) have market eggs be limited separately from cave eggs, or 3) have market eggs be unlimited.

 

1) is the most straightforward, but means the market is not much use to those who have already caught their CBs. That's no different from the regular market being useless for us lucky veteran players who have all the CB metals we need.

2) means the market complements the cave, but people who have both the time to hunt and shards to buy get a slight advantage over those who can only do one or the other.

3) means the market completely bypasses cave limits instead of being a supplement.

 

1 or 2 is probably the most viable way of adding holiday eggs to market right away even when we haven't seen the true effect of a returning limited holiday yet. It seems a little too early to jump straight into 3, but I don't actually see a downside to it since hoarding is after all the point of the game, and unlike being able to grab all the eggs from the cave having 30 market CBs on your scroll won't negatively affect anyone else.

[DragonLady86]

On 12/2/2018 at 9:32 PM, TJ09 said:

And what if eggs were added but the limits still preserved?

 

Ignoring cave limits from market purchases goes against the philosophy that buying from the market should never be better than hunting in the cave, and keeping them around doesn't hurt the stated purpose of making it easier for new users/those with time constraints/etc to catch up.

^and 1. is the way TJ was leaning IF he decided to implement this, based on his earlier post.

 

Not even sure why unlimited market is even being disccused.  The suggestion was to ADD them to the market.  The purpose of the market is to be an alternative to hunting, not to get around limits.

[Cinspawn]

I'd rather not have extra 'market slots' for CBs because I wouldn't like my holiday dragons to come from the 'market biome'. It's kind of a superficial problem and I don't have anything against holidays in the market - I'd just rather have bigger (or no) limits outside the market. 

[Dragon_Arbock]

21 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

^and 1. is the way TJ was leaning IF he decided to implement this, based on his earlier post.

 

Not even sure why unlimited market is even being disccused.  The suggestion was to ADD them to the market.  The purpose of the market is to be an alternative to hunting, not to get around limits.

 

Because I'm fairly sure the OP wants both the cave and market to be unlimited. They think adding them to the market would get rid of the 'stress', so to say, that's keeping TJ from removing limits.

[osmarks]

I'm not sure there would be much stress anyway. Halloween is fine - possibly better, even, since people can gift to each other more easily.

[olympe]

22 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

No offense but I think this is overcomplicating things. Aside from fixing a glitch, TJ has shown no oversight or purposeful adjustments of prices in market and most implementations of suggestions have been fairly simple and straightforward, plus he has already shot down the "unfreeze holidays for the exception of holidays", so I don't believe he will go for the "one set price at one amount and another price at the next" suggestion especially when it will only be holidays that it affects. For now the simplest implementations are 1) have market eggs count towards the total 2 cb limit, 2) have market eggs be limited separately from cave eggs, or 3) have market eggs be unlimited.

You're probably right about this being too complicated, I'm afraid. It would have been a nice mechanism, but it will, without a doubt, raise questions. Unless, of course, you can buy additional holiday slots separately... As in, you want to buy your 3rd CB Holly. The button is greyed out, but you get a link to "Increase scroll limit for this holiday breed", which, of course, comes at a price. (That would also be a nice thing to raffle away before each holiday hits...) Anyway, once you've increased your limit, you can either buy or hunt an egg of that breed. 

 

Quote

1) is the most straightforward, but means the market is not much use to those who have already caught their CBs. That's no different from the regular market being useless for us lucky veteran players who have all the CB metals we need. [*snip]

 

 

Actually, I have to disagree with you slightly. Because there's still Halloween, with its unlimited CB holidays...

Edited December 6, 2018 by olympe