ANSWERED:Trading of Adult Dragons

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't give a toss about the trade economy. But I do care about changing the nature of the game - which is about RAISING dragons.

[osean]

I really dislike this idea.  It seems like it would only benefit long time players and or multi scrollers.

[Keileon]

No support.

 

Tales of Ostlea is different-- from what I understand, the site has always had that feature, or got it early enough that the economy grew around it. Dragon Cave has been going on for a decade and making this change now would cause a huge upset in the trade economy.

[ShorahNagi]

I don't necessarily care about the trade market, or the value of the Dragons, lineages, etc....but I can see this causing problems for those who do care. For example (I'll use the Dorkface line because its a lineage many are familiar with) - someone masters to trade for The Original Midas Dorkface. However, they decide that they don't like that name and change it. Everyone who followed Dorkface naming must now change or have the lineage questioned (or we have the problem of impersonation of the lineage [which I think is what happened when he lost his name in the first place*]).

 

There's also the possibility with trades that someone masters to trade for, then hoard a ton of rare CB (ex. someone masters to trade to get a bunch of the original 2007 Holly dragons) and now corners the market on original second gens.

 

In the end, the only benefit I see to trading adult dragons is getting back a dragon you may have accidentally traded or abandoned (I see requests all the time in people signatures and in the names of dragons people trying to recover a lost egg/hatchling. This would just give them an additional chance to get back that dragon). But otherwise, if you no longer want a dragon and don't wish to kill it, just release it.

 

 

*I'm aware you can always look at a dragon's code to know, but not everyone has time to be that meticulous or memorize the codes as well as names of famous lineage dragons

[Fiona]

I don't see this as being particularly beneficial to the game, but if it did become a thing, certain dragons would have to be disallowed for trading. Examples would be CB prizes and spriters' alts. There are probably more too that would  not be good candidates.

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I agree with all this. Especially the bit about this is NOT other games: if it were, I wouldn't be here.

 

The point of THIS game is raising dragons. Not grabbing them from other people because you can't be bothered.

 

Exactly. I don't give a crap what other games are doing. Why should I? Other games are not this game. I am not playing other games, I am playing *this* game. This game isn't, and *shouldn't* be, exactly like any other game. *This* game is based around *raising* dragons. Everything else is bells and whistles, but the main point of this game is raising. Take that away, what do you have? WHY change the core of the game, especially with the excuse that 'other games do it'?? Why is it important for DC to be like other games? I don't think it is. I don't think being like other games is something DC needs to strive for. 

 

 

[osmarks]

I really don't see how allowing swapping of adults somehow means that "the core of the game" is entirely gone.

[DragonLady86]

Quote

Dragon Cave is an online adoptables site. The goal is to grab dragon eggs and raise them to adulthood by having others click on them. There are over 90 different kinds of dragon to collect; how you play is completely up to you.

Once you’ve registered, your first step is to obtain an egg. This page will walk you through the basics of grabbing and raising dragon eggs.

Stealing an Egg

Dragon Cave revolves around grabbing and raising eggs. There are two types of eggs you can find: “new” eggs from various locations on the map, and “abandoned” eggs.

So important to the "core" game it's stated twice in as many paragraphs.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

What she said. NOT trading adults.

[KrazyKarp]

The impact this would have on the trade economy... ugh, I can only imagine. It's already broken because of CB Prizes, please please please let's not break it even more with trading adults.

[Chanilove]

I'm super against this idea. I've come back from a long hiatus recently. Can you imagine my surprise when I found someone trading away a 2G Gold from Holly for CB hatchlings? Or when I discovered the points system that allows you to BUY dragons? Or when I stepped into the Halloween biome and loaded up with CB's of all the dragons I never thought I'd be able to obtain again? Prizes were already becoming more common before I disappeared, but the amount of growth there shocked me, too. I'm not saying any of these were bad changes; just startlingly generous. Maybe (likely not, but just maybe) I would have supported this idea before all those updates, but now? The dragons of your dreams aren't just dreams anymore! I think those implementations have made it plenty easy to get what you want from the Cave without making adult dragons tradeable.

 

As for having a way to get rid of them, people have already mentioned that you can release them into the Wild (or is Wilderness? I've been gone too long!) If a dragon's bad enough that you can't stand having it on your scroll, I can't see a lot of others wanting it, either, except to boost their trophy (which is another aspect of the game that would take a hit if this went through). I just see this system being abused by malicious players more than being used by benevolent ones. I think it'd be used for trading more than gifting, and (in my opinion) it'd be game-breaking.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Chanilove

[ShorahNagi]

8 hours ago, osmarks said:

I really don't see how allowing swapping of adults somehow means that "the core of the game" is entirely gone.

I'don't say adult trading would make it gone because it ruins the challenge of raising eggs and hunting (why should I spend hours watching the biomes for that rare, then needing to carefully guard it to adulthood when I can just get someone else to do it for me [as though rare, there are people who will randomly gift really nice things for nothing])

[HeatherMarie]

9 hours ago, osmarks said:

I really don't see how allowing swapping of adults somehow means that "the core of the game" is entirely gone.

 

It would completely change what the game is. The game is about catching and raising dragons. Even if you trade, or find a hatchling in the AP, you still have to *raise* it. Put some time in. Put a little bit of effort (we can argue that tossing a hatchling into a few hatcheries isn't 'effort' but you still have to *do* something). @DragonLady86 quoted some of the text that is in the actual, official introduction when you first sign up. Shows pretty plainly that DC is about raising dragons. Would you still be *able* to raise your own dragons, sure, but why bother? It would change the focus of the game from 'raise dragons' to 'trade for dragons', and that's a change I certainly don't want. 

 

I'm also kind of curious how this might affect the biomes and AP. If everyone can suddenly just trade tons of adults around, I'd imagine the biomes would become pretty stagnant. Why hatch a full-timed egg when you can trade for a grown adult? Why *ever* spend hours upon hours hunting for that elusive rare when you can just trade for a full-grown adult? 

[Shadowdrake]

With trading adults, the only limit to how fast and how many you can obtain is magis, which you can bypass by taking free gifts and/or trading for more magis. Unlike other games where you can trade adults, DC has no limit on adults and its version of leveling up, so to speak, is based on how many adults you can get. It would not be impossible for a new player to go from no trophy to platinum and finish all their goals in a month even without cheating, including CB holidays out-of-holiday. In essence, it would encourage instant gratification and make DC's current system a joke.

 

Though I guess an upside is you don't have to worry about viewbombers or time limits or growing up or misgenders on adult trades.

[purplehaze]

Somebody has to raise all those dragons. If no new dragons are raised, things will reach an impasse after awhile. 

 

[HeatherMarie]

51 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

Somebody has to raise all those dragons. If no new dragons are raised, things will reach an impasse after awhile. 

 

 

After a few years maybe, but not anytime soon. Plenty of people have over 5k dragons, a good handful have over 10k... I really don't see lack of adults as an issue for a looong time. So many people have *tons* of adults already, the game could easily go from 'raising' to 'trading adults' and not have the community run out of adults for years to come. 

[purplehaze]

4 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

After a few years maybe, but not anytime soon. Plenty of people have over 5k dragons, a good handful have over 10k... I really don't see lack of adults as an issue for a looong time. So many people have *tons* of adults already, the game could easily go from 'raising' to 'trading adults' and not have the community run out of adults for years to come. 

Well, I have thousands of dragons and they are ALL MINE!  No one is going to take them away from me. I raised them, I love them, I'm keeping them!

 

But I do basically agree with you that it will change the game's focus away from what it has always been. If I can get an adult in trade and not have to worry about getting it enough views, but not too many, etc. and not have to wait until it grows up to breed it or use any of its BSAs or whatever, why would I want to trade for an egg or a hatchie and do all that work? I think that would be very bad for the game as a whole.

[VixenDra]

On 11/29/2018 at 12:10 PM, VixenDra said:

How about making adults tradeable for only a week-month since they grew up? (if the grew up on date is 29th of November, that adult would be tradeable until 29th of December)  - I bet there are plenty of users who tried to offer that Cheese or Silver egg and get something not that much valuable but nobody seing their offer had it at the time and the pretty much valuable egg ended up as an adult while all you wanted was a PB Magma or high gen Stairstep Prize from X breed or a Red-Taield wyrm from Forest[...]? How many times my bf caught a Kyanite from e.g. Coast and tried to Biome swap if for a Forestal one to help me with Zombie fodders? And guess how many times people offered before the egg grew up into an adult? like 1 in a lifetime?... An extra week or month to trade could be a blessing here.

[...] an additional week or month? why not, could work. Not that people unable to provide the ultra valuables aren't mostly out of trading for these anyway... And one could at least hope to biome swap that Kyanite or genderswap that Kingcrowne...
 

(Ok, I'm done.... I have a feeling I'll regret positng in Suggestions yet again... guess I'll just go ahead and ignore all mentions)

 

My most important points are always getting missed, so I'll allow myself to extract it 🔼

In short, in your discussion, maybe try to also consider the case of this being limited to a very small timeframe (week-month since growing up, only) - with no possibility of getting a CB Dorkface, or an original(2018) Omen even...

[Nove NuVonde]

While it wouldn't completely rend the economy as unlimited adult trading would, this would still make hatchie and egg values go completely down the gutter, and still draw a lot of focus away from the raising aspect. Sure, sometimes you don't get a genderswap, or you don't get the offer you want in time, but unless it's something crucial like a cb metallic or something, I just don't see this being any more than one of the many small inconveniences that are just part of the game, and not one big enough to really justify adult trading, be it for a week, or forever.

[HeatherMarie]

27 minutes ago, Nove NuVonde said:

While it wouldn't completely rend the economy as unlimited adult trading would, this would still make hatchie and egg values go completely down the gutter, and still draw a lot of focus away from the raising aspect. Sure, sometimes you don't get a genderswap, or you don't get the offer you want in time, but unless it's something crucial like a cb metallic or something, I just don't see this being any more than one of the many small inconveniences that are just part of the game, and not one big enough to really justify adult trading, be it for a week, or forever.

 

This. Yes.

 

No matter how 'limited' you make it, trading adults in any capacity is going to change the focus of the game. You can't get around that, it *will* change the game in a drastic way. In a way that many of us don't want. Eggs in general, and even hatchlings, will be *much* less valuable regardless of breed/lineage/whatever, because no one will want to spend time raising them when they can trade for an adult. Trade economy will be flipped on it's head! Everything that DC is to many people will change. So, no, I don't think trying to put limitations on it actually changes anything.

[Fuzzbucket]

5 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

This. Yes.

 

No matter how 'limited' you make it, trading adults in any capacity is going to change the focus of the game. You can't get around that, it *will* change the game in a drastic way. In a way that many of us don't want. Eggs in general, and even hatchlings, will be *much* less valuable regardless of breed/lineage/whatever, because no one will want to spend time raising them when they can trade for an adult. Trade economy will be flipped on it's head! Everything that DC is to many people will change. So, no, I don't think trying to put limitations on it actually changes anything.

 

Exactly this. Please let's just NOT HAVE THIS.

[TJ09]

There's a lot tied up in the concept of "trading things that are currently untradable," and others in this thread have already gone over it more verbosely than I could.

 

So I'll just state that I don't think trading adult dragons/frozen hatchlings would be healthy for the site, agree with much of the above and leave it at that.