ANSWERED:Memorialize Grave action

[Nove NuVonde]

Having recently had this idea, and finding no topics the propose something similar (that I could find), I figured if no one else has, I might as well make the suggestion!

So, tombstones. They're one of the most fleeting things you can collect. They have the properties of the original dragon, making them a pain to sort if you want them all together, they don't have their special biome variants unless they belong to the elusive undead dragon, and they disappear after two weeks anyways - unless they again, belong to an undead, and even then they do not have the actual grave sprite itself for half the day. This is why I'm proposing a Memorialize action, that would make tombstones not only permanent, but gives them properties similar to normal dragons. I personally believe such an action should just be a free option for any eligible tombstone on your scroll or dragon you owned before dying, but if users are strongly against the free aspect, perhaps some kind of BSA would be appropriate. Guardians, maybe? Spirit Wards?

Some may ask, why would anyone want something like this? A lasting mark of shame on your scroll? Why not just farm for zombies instead, since they're permanent? Well, there are several reasons that I think at least some people would make use of a feature like this:

 

• Sprite collection. Many users strive for at least one of everything, and for some, tombstones could very well be included in their definition of "everything". As it stands, the only way to get all 7 tombstone sprites is with undead dragons, which is all well and good - undeads are a perfectly lovely thing to have on your scroll - however this might not be everyone's cup of tea. Undead dragons are notoriously hard to get, and it could take ages to get all the unique tombstone sprites. Furthermore, said sprites are not always visible. This is already slightly irksome for dragons that are prettier when showing off their temporary sprites, like celestials, but undead sprites and their respective graves are so different that it's really not the same at all, and some people would just like their rock to stay a rock 24/7.
   
• Lore/flavor. There are plenty of people who like to come up with unique, personal narratives for their dragons to inhabit, either by way of descriptions, or perhaps purely in imagination. Tragic dead parents? Backstabbing siblings? Other gruesome fates? All your sad needs and more can be met and immortalized on your scroll for all to see. There may also be users who plain and simple think the idea of having a "personal graveyard" on their scroll is neat. I for one am part of that crowd - whether or not I'm a weird outlier for wanting this I suppose remains to be seen.
   
• Expression of regret. All this talk about undeads and we haven't even touched on all the graves that pile up from trying to get them. Some users may just sincerely regret the dragons that have died on their scroll, be it fodder, a rash decision, a convoluted mishap of some kind, or a hatchling they forgot about and let die. If they feel the desire to remember these passed dragons in some way, this could be it.
   
• Other reasons! I'm not psychic, I can't know or predict all the reasons someone might use a feature like this, but I'm sure there are more out there. Whatever they might be, they're just as valid as the ones listed above.

 

So, what would memorializing actually do? Well, first and most obviously, it would make the tombstone permanent, regardless of any other conditions like time of day, and give it a unique biome sprite as undeads have. Second most importantly, it would allow you to name and describe said tombstone, rather than just having an ugly (code) sitting on your scroll. This could let you preserve the name the dragon had in life - or maybe you just want to make bad dead people puns, like those chintzy halloween decorations. As well, it could allow you to describe what the dragon was like in life, or maybe how they died. I don't know, I'm not the lore police, maybe you have your own reasons for describing a grave. It would also give them unique sorting properties, rather than being sorted as if they were the breed they were, so that if you had many of these graves from different breeds and biomes, they wouldn't be scattered across your scroll like sprinkles. E.g. for color sorting, they'd sort with the greys, for breed sorting, maybe they'd sort with the g's? d's? At the end of the scroll? Etc. etc.

There'd of course be measures to prevent this from being abused. Memorializing would not affect how many dragons you can kill in any way, so you could not quickly sweep graves under the rug to kill more. It would also not affect the two weeks time needed for tombstones to disappear from your scroll, so that you couldn't quickly purge unattractive zombie fodder. As for the actual method of removal, I again think this should just be a free action, though I think expunge could work here too, if need be. Regardless of which, though, two weeks would still be needed before they could be removed.

Now, you might be thinking, doesn't this indirectly encourage morally reprehensible behavior? The short answer is, yes, this does create minor incentive to kill dragons rather than just releasing them. However, this would not be the first time Being A Terrible Person was rewarded on the site, and just as you can choose not to engage in the murder and wastage that is necessary to create undeads and neglecteds, you can choose not to participate in the comparatively much cleaner process of creating graves to memorialize.

Bells and whistles

These are features that aren't really integral to the core concept, and I'd be fine without, but I think would be fun for either future consideration, or to be released alongside the base feature.
 

• Flowers? These could be collected similarly to the trick or treat events, popping up rarely, and dropping seasonally, or maybe earned in some way. Not only could they be left by graves, but they'd be a fun minor collectible, like year round trick or treating. These could be, of course, toggled on and off. You could choose whether users could leave flowers by a dragon's grave, and could toggle whether these flowers appear around the site for you, in case you find the idea of random items popping up all year long annoying.
   
• Plaques. Separate from descriptions, these would just be small, tasteful blurbs. Perhaps appearing when the mouse is hovered over the tombstone in question, or maybe above the description, where the breed flavor text would normally appear.
   
• New tombstone sprites. Unique biome sprites were already a decent addition, but I think there's room for even more here if obtaining permanent graves was more accessible, as this action would do. My current idea is maybe the actual shape of the stone is based on mana, with differing aesthetics and degrees of ornateness depending on which of the ten types the original dragon was aligned with, while still having the environmental effects of the biome. I understand this creates a lot of work, which is why it's not high priority for me, but considering that tombstone sprites are significantly less work than full fledged dragons, I don't think it is completely beyond the realm of possibility.

 

---

 

So that's what I have so far! If any of this seems half baked, or I'm missing/misunderstanding something, or you feel like something is unbalanced, feel free to add suggestions, because I'm all ears for ideas to improve or streamline the concept.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Nove NuVonde

[Ruby Eyes]

Graves are actually dragons. Your thread title confused me Tomb action? Tombstone action?

 

Naming and describing a tombstone sounds reasonable.

[Kyleedj]

I like this idea a lot actually! I've been playing dragon cave since at least 2010. So I was a young child when I first started playing. I also happened to get in trouble a bit. So one time I was grounded and I told my best friend (who played with me at the time) "Hey can you hop on my scroll and make me some undeads since it's halloween?" And she agreed to it. I guess I probably should have told her what she was allowed to kill because she accidentally killed the first dragon I'd ever raised to an adult. I didn't think that would hurt, but it did. "Ignitus Awoken" has a son on my scroll but he himself is long gone. I'd love to be able to memorialize him.

 

EDIT AS TO NOT DOUBLE POST: Additionally I think this is a good idea because even when a named dragon dies, it's name cannot be recycled into the system. There's almost no use for that dragon's name any more except for the lineage legacy it left behind. So if we're gonna keep that name around long after that dragon's dead, I think we should definitely be able to memorialize that.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Kyleedj

[Ruby Eyes]

... and most importantly, re-name.

[Kyleedj]

Just now, Ruby Eyes said:

... and most importantly, re-name.

STRONGLY AGREE

[Fuzzbucket]

Um - how many would we end up with - or would they go away after the 2 weeks ?

 

I have killed SO many dragons - bitten, zombie attempts, you name it, never mind the ones that were viewbombed, died because my internet went down, etc. I'd be flooded. Do we get to choose some to keep, or get stuck with the lot ? I really don't want a couple of hundred tombstones on my scroll.

[Andromen]

Full support on this (and love the flower bit too!).

 

I actually have a kind of similar situation to Kylee, but for me I was a new player when I got three dragons. Two died because they ran out of time, the third grew up and is still an adult on my scroll. I would love to have the two other graves still there, to remind me things can still run out of time.

 

Describing and renaming tombstones could also be a cool feature, but we'd first need to get them to stay there permanently, no?

 

(I was a bit confused about the tile at the start as well, only because of the existence of Grave Dragons)

[Nove NuVonde]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Um - how many would we end up with - or would they go away after the 2 weeks ?

 

I have killed SO many dragons - bitten, zombie attempts, you name it, never mind the ones that were viewbombed, died because my internet went down, etc. I'd be flooded. Do we get to choose some to keep, or get stuck with the lot ? I really don't want a couple of hundred tombstones on my scroll.

Tombstones would still be exactly as they are now unless acted upon, meaning if you did nothing, they would go away on their own. Near the beginning of the thread I talk about how you would going about doing this:
"I personally believe such an action should just be a free option for any eligible tombstone on your scroll, but if users are strongly against the free aspect, perhaps some kind of BSA would be appropriate. Guardians, maybe? Spirit Wards?"

And a bit further in I talk about how they would be removed, if you changed your mind after acting:
"As for the actual method of removal, I again think this should just be a free action, though I think expunge could work here too, if need be."

Peripherally related: some users have brought up long dead dragons, which I did not initially consider, but now that it's been brought up it seems like a really good use for this that somehow slipped by me.

[GhostMouse]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Um - how many would we end up with - or would they go away after the 2 weeks ?

 

I have killed SO many dragons - bitten, zombie attempts, you name it, never mind the ones that were viewbombed, died because my internet went down, etc. I'd be flooded. Do we get to choose some to keep, or get stuck with the lot ? I really don't want a couple of hundred tombstones on my scroll.

If I read it right, I think the tombstone would be on your scroll for two weeks, like normal. If you do nothing, it goes away, still like normal. But if you want to keep it, then during the two weeks, you go to Actions -> Memorialize and choose to make it permanent.

I like this idea, particularly being able to re-name dead dragons. I could build up a horde of Halloween decorating tombstones to move to the front of my scroll during October!

[purplehaze]

11 minutes ago, Nove NuVonde said:

Peripherally related: some users have brought up long dead dragons, which I did not initially consider, but now that it's been brought up it seems like a really good use for this that somehow slipped by me.

It all depends on whether the record of those dragons still exists in the system. Some long-dead dragons may not be available to be returned. I believe there was a time, many years ago, that codes of dead dragons were recycled. 

[Nove NuVonde]

Is that so? It'd be a shame if true, but if it's truly impossible, then I can live with just freshly dead dragons being eligible. Still, if there's a way to make old dragons work, I'd like to see that. Maybe they could be "soft revived" in a sense with a new code? It wouldn't technically be the same dragon but for the sake of lineages it could be close enough.

[Kyleedj]

9 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

It all depends on whether the record of those dragons still exists in the system. Some long-dead dragons may not be available to be returned. I believe there was a time, many years ago, that codes of dead dragons were recycled. 

Ahh see in my case I'm good. Because he had progeny on my scroll before he died, I can access his page through the lineage. But I guess a lot of older dead dragons may not be retrievable.

[Ruby Eyes]

This one's paternal grandfather died long ago so he has been deleted from the database: https://dragcave.net/lineage/L4XQd

His code is not retrievable anymore.

[Kyleedj]

https://dragcave.net/lineage/tWiHW

Yet for me at least, the name still appears and I can visit his page. (I thought his name had been The Great Hero, cause that's what I originally named him, but apparently I changed it shortly before his untimely demise).

He even has a 4 letter code ❤️ What a time it was.

[Fuzzbucket]

41 minutes ago, Nove NuVonde said:

Tombstones would still be exactly as they are now unless acted upon, meaning if you did nothing, they would go away on their own. Near the beginning of the thread I talk about how you would going about doing this:
"I personally believe such an action should just be a free option for any eligible tombstone on your scroll, but if users are strongly against the free aspect, perhaps some kind of BSA would be appropriate. Guardians, maybe? Spirit Wards?"

And a bit further in I talk about how they would be removed, if you changed your mind after acting:
"As for the actual method of removal, I again think this should just be a free action, though I think expunge could work here too, if need be."

 

OK, fine then. Thanks .NOT something I would use, but as long as I can ignore it, I don't NOT support it  

[olympe]

As long as this was a voluntary action, I think it's fine. Like having to use an action - breed-specific or otherwise - in order to keep a tombstone. Would even allow to create a tombstone for died eggs. (After all, a number of parents bury their stillborn or even miscarried children, so why not?)

[HeatherMarie]

Huh, interesting idea! I probably wouldn't use it, but I see how fun it could be. Creating an elaborate story about why the dragon died, giving the tombstone some punny name, that sounds like the kind of thing DCers excel at! Total support, as long as it's an action and not automatic or whatever.

 

(Also, yes, way back when dead codes did get recycled, you can see that in some lineages. Dead dragons from long ago were wiped from the system, if you click the tombstone in a lineage you just get a 'not found' error. So this would have to be for more recent deaths.)

[olympe]

3 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Huh, interesting idea! I probably wouldn't use it, but I see how fun it could be. Creating an elaborate story about why the dragon died, giving the tombstone some punny name, that sounds like the kind of thing DCers excel at! Total support, as long as it's an action and not automatic or whatever.

 

(Also, yes, way back when dead codes did get recycled, you can see that in some lineages. Dead dragons from long ago were wiped from the system, if you click the tombstone in a lineage you just get a 'not found' error. So this would have to be for more recent deaths.)

There were also some lineages with recycled dragons around - and suddenly, you caught a seasonal egg in the cave that had parents and offspring of totally different breeds. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah. For a while I had a dragon with a pair of male grandparents. Sadly TJ fixed that

 

And not in a good way

 

https://dragcave.net/lineage/8gsXE

Edited November 27, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[angelicdragonpuppy]

5 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Yeah. For a while I had a dragon with a pair of male grandparents. Sadly TJ fixed that

 

And not in a good way

 

https://dragcave.net/lineage/8gsXE

 

I have a sibling to yours—was bummed when it was fixed.

[Indigo_Dragon]

For those who had their beloved dragons die too long ago and cannot have the tombstone anymore, why not use a CB dragon from the cave of the biome you wanted, and of the same breed, and then be able to use the memorialize action to use them in replacement of a sense with the original? I mean, I liken it to how if we of the Western world cannot retrieve the body of our loved one but still want a casket funeral, we tend to have a closed-casket funeral where there's nothing really in it, but the casket itself is symbolic of the person that would've been there.

 

Since people always want to mark the death and passing of their loved ones, no matter how fleeting their life may have been (such as stillborns and dead infants), I think this would be a WONDERFUL feature to add to the site. Yes even for dead eggs (which ran out of time) and dead hatchlings. Not just adults or frozen hatchlings.

 

Of course we'd have to check the descriptions of the tombstones first before they can be officially added, but perhaps the way you could check it could be through a separate channel from the original dragons and frozen hatchlings descriptions? Sort of a way to kind of divide the load and not overwhelm the description-checkers with too many at once?  Also, the lore behind it (if needed) is that you do something different for checking the description on a tombstone than you do for a living, breathing dragon. One's written on the tombstone itself, carved into stone, and the other is written on the scroll that records multiple dragons, presumably.

 

I wholeheartedly support this being a free action, both to create one and to remove one. Something that you can opt in if you want to, but not have active at all if you don't want to. Same with killing a dragon. We don't need a BSA to do that, we just have a free action. But if we must have it be a BSA, then Guardian dragons, Spirit Wards, or another breed that is known for haunting graveyards and caring about those dead or nearly dead? And then the expunge action of Soulpeaces could also still work in return, just as they do with zombies.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Indigo_Dragon

[Confused Cat]

Support.

 

 

I'd like to keep my dragon ghosts around. I used to have a group with all my dead dragons - the tombstones were visible in the group even after they had disappeared from my scroll. Sadly, TJ fixed this "unintended feature". 

 

 

If a new feature/BSA/whatever allowed me to get them back on my scroll again, or at least to keep new tombstones from disappearing, I would use it.

 

 

[Cinspawn]

I'd love this!! It would be awesome to keep the ancestors of deadlines on your scroll, and it would also feel more 'logical' to me because as it is right now I'm always confused whether I can re-name, whether the name will eventually disappear in the lineage, whether the entire tombstone will disappear eventually - with the BSA it makes sense that it's permanent. It's yours, you have the name, it's still your dragon. 

 

And I'd also like it that if we put no name, it would simply say '(Deceased)'. Which is sometimes (?) the way it is now in deadlines. (as I said, I'm not really sure how the current tombstones work ) 

 

Love all the potential additions for tombstones too (the flowers etc). Descriptions being enabled on them. 

 

Big support from me! 

[Pilauli]

Yes, I'd love it if we could have an option to make it just say "(Deceased)".  A deadline that wants a bunch of visually indistinguishable ancestors is currently, as far as I know, impossible.  What if a memorialized tombstone would keep the code, but an unmemorialized one would not?  Options for everyone!  Or, tangentially, what if there was a separate action for dead dragons, "wipe records", which deletes the dragon's page and leaves it (deceased)?  (Ooh, if the code was then recycled, people could try to zombify cool codes without deleting them forever.)

 

That said, while new gravestones would hang around for two weeks, it would also be nice, if someone still remembers a dead dragon's code or has its offspring, to let them go and memorialize it after-the-fact.  It might not be practical; I don't have any children of my own dead dragons that I can recall, so I can't go and check whether old tombstones still have an actions page.  But if they do, please do not delete the ability to memorialize old tombstones (whether intended or not) it as a bug.

Edit: I went and looked through my action log from this Halloween and found some failed zombie fodder.  The view page is accessible, it has a link to the actions page, but the actions page says "You search, but are unable to find the creature you’re looking for."  It seems like adding actions ought to be possible, though.

 

More suggestions, mostly tangential: what if there was a separate action for dead dragons, "wipe records", which deletes the dragon's page and leaves it (deceased)?  (Ooh, if the code was then recycled, people could try to zombify cool codes without deleting them forever.)  If we can access the "actions" of a long-dead dragon, that leaves the question of whether it's revive-able.  I propose a new zombie sprite, a pile of worms or possible worms in a skull, obtained by reviving long-dead dragons.  The text would normally be "The dragon has completely rotted away" because of course it has.  If it actually revives, then "You reason that since worms ate the dragon, it lives on in those worms."

 

Also, if we could memorialize dead eggs, maybe we could keep the (dead) egg sprites, as a sort of way to freeze eggs.

 

Whether or not any of these features are added, I would love to see the core idea added.

 

(Oh, and does anyone now want to make a single tombstone in their zombie group that's not actually a zombie? "Michael Crowfort's tomb lies in a graveyard famous for being haunted.  Despite the fact that he pursued undeath while alive, nobody has ever managed to find his zombie.  Maybe he's simply too sneaky, or maybe this dragon who wanted to be immortal has truly passed away." )

Edited November 28, 2018 by Pilauli

[Cinspawn]

Oh yeah, a separate "Keep (Deceased) name" option would be better, because that way we can keep the codes as a name too for the people who like that