Longer Holiday Breeding Period + No Fake Cooldowns

[solairehighwind]

Holiday lineages are gorgeous, but there are two problems that make them a hassle to plan and create:

1. Holiday breeding only lasts 1 week, so basically you can only breed holidays 1 week a year corresponding to the holiday they're from.
2. If you pick up a holiday dragon and it grows up before the breeding period is over, it will be given a false "last bred" date, often dating to when it was an egg or a hatchling, so that its cooldown lasts the rest of the breeding season and it can't breed a new gen until next year.

 

If you get a holiday checker x non-holiday, or other lineage that uses both holidays and non-holidays produced, you can breed it to a holidaykin and make another gen, so basically you can make 2 generations every year.

If you're making a stairstep with a holiday main breed, or other lineage that can't use any non-holidays produced, you can only make 1 gen a year.

Pretty tedious if you want to make anything longer than 2-3 gens.

 

So, I have a two-part proposal:

Firstly, increase the holiday breeding period to two weeks instead of one; since not everyone would want to get involved in the holiday rush outside the usual time, perhaps holidays wouldn't be put first in the AP for the extra week, or that "separate Holiday AP" idea could be combined with this.

Secondly, no more fake Last Bred dates - if your holiday dragon grows up before breeding is over, it can breed more holidays.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions on this?

[Jack_Indivisible]

I second the no fake bred dates. It's a perfect example of fake scarcity for scarcitys sake, something that this site sometimes has problems with.

[Soulsborne]

22 minutes ago, Jack_Indivisible said:

I second the no fake bred dates. It's a perfect example of fake scarcity for scarcitys sake, something that this site sometimes has problems with.

 

Same! Even those who don't want to prolong the holiday breeding period should be fine with this part at least.

[Ruby Eyes]

56 minutes ago, lolahighwind said:

If you get a holiday checker x non-holiday, or other lineage that uses both holidays and non-holidays produced, you can breed it to a holidaykin and make another gen, so basically you can make 2 generations every year.

It's still only 1 holiday generation.

 

I would like 2 breeding weeks, too, to be able to work on more of my holiday lineages (after all, we get new breeds every year!), but I'd rather keep the fake last bred date. It just makes holidays feel right for me.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ruby Eyes

[olympe]

43 minutes ago, lolahighwind said:

If you get a holiday checker x non-holiday, or other lineage that uses both holidays and non-holidays produced, you can breed it to a holidaykin and make another gen, so basically you can make 2 generations every year.

Not really. Yes, you can breed the non-holiday offspring before the next year, but that won't help you unless you have another holiday mate waiting for the next generation. See this:

Year zero: You can already breed 2nd gens of the non-holiday breed...

Year one: You breed a 2nd gen holiday, and then breed the same 2nd gen holiday to a perfect mate to create a 3rd gen checker of the non-holiday breed.

Year two: You can finally breed or trade for a 3rd gen holiday mate for your checker. (After all, you might have used the non-holiday 3rd gen for a blood swap.) This allows you to breed a 4th gen checker of the non-holiday breed.

Year three: Finally, you can breed / blood swap for your 4th gen holiday checker. With the 4th gen you got during the year, you can finally breed a 5th gen checker (of the non-holiday kind).

 

Compare to stairstep lineages:

Year zero: You can breed 2nd gens of the non-holiday breed.

Year one: You can now breed a 2nd gen (of the holiday breed). After the event, you can breed 3rd gens of the non-holiday breed.

Year two: You can breed 3rd gens of the holiday breed. And, of course, afterwards you can breed 4th gens of the non-holiday breed.

Year three: Finally, you can breed a 4th gen holiday offspring for your lineage. And, of course, you can use it to create 5th gens of the non-holiday breed.

 

Not much of a difference here.

 

However, I'm definitely in favor of doing away with the fake breeding date, although I doubt it will fly. Because this thing was introduced in order to prevent several generations of holidays being bred during the event. Still, I'd like to see this happen. I'm not so sure about prolonging the breeding period. On the one hand, it's kind of a classic mechanism, and especially the players who are not into holidays are pretty much screwed. On the other hand, the number of holidays we can work with increases every single year, and with the limited breeding period, this limits us to work on only a few chosen lines. Personally, I wouldn't mind it, but I can see others being less happy about a two-week breeding period.

[Ruby Eyes]

18 minutes ago, olympe said:

especially the players who are not into holidays are pretty much screwed.

Only if they rely on the AP, really. They can still do everything else as usual.

[HeatherMarie]

The *only* way I'd support a longer holiday breeding period is with the OP's suggestion of not putting holiday eggs first in the AP (or having a separate 'holiday AP').  I spend 90% of my hunting time in the AP, that's literally hours every single day, and I would *hate* to be locked out of that for an *extra* week, three times a year. That's three extra weeks a year that I can't hunt the AP 'normally' at all (as in hunting for normal non-holiday breeds). 

 

Also, I can't speak for others but do you all remember the last few holiday AP walls that *did* stick around a little longer then usual after the breeding period was over? There were *tons* of posts around here complaining about that, complaining about holiday eggs *still* blocking the normal AP, not being able to hunt regular eggs, etc. That was a pretty big deal in the threads, honestly. I can't imagine the drama that would unfold if that was extended by an entire week. 

 

As for the fake cooldowns... I dunno, I get why it would be beneficial to lineage-builders to be able to make an extra generation in a holiday lineage every year. But it just doesn't feel right to me? I mean I don't care much either way, but I feel like that's kind of one of those things that makes DC holidays what they are.

[purplehaze]

I can understand the desire for a longer breeding period, given the number of holiday dragons that we have and our limited scroll space that only allows us to advance a few lineages in each season. But I think the negatives of having so many holiday AP eggs outweighs any advantage of extending the breeding. We have actually experienced AP eggs of regular breeds dying behind the holiday wall in the last few years. Even a separate holiday AP might not help all that much.

 

It seems that doing away with the fake last bred date and allowing breeding of holiday dragons that grow up during the season would have less of a negative effect. Still it would result in even more holiday AP eggs than we already have. Maybe it is time to consider reducing the holiday multi-clutches to a maximum of two or three instead of four?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I love holidays but I’m somewhat neutral on this. Just one week and one generation is aggravating, sure, but in some ways it’s duringthe excitement and chaos of those times that I enjoy DC the most. It’s very different from the usual feel. Extending the period would dilute that feeling, even if it would benefit me with lineage making.

 

I’ll also mention that there are oodles of high gen checkered holidays, so people can work within the parameters successfully (if slowly), and that there have been so many Holidays in recent years that they’ve often dipped below influencable age before they’re all taken, proving there’s no real shortage.

 

 

[Imzadi]

6 hours ago, purplehaze said:

 Maybe it is time to consider reducing the holiday multi-clutches to a maximum of two or three instead of four?

I actually think this is a great idea.  There are more and more holiday breeds every year that will be bred, including who knows how many new CBs of the older breeds that we got last year (YAY!!)  I personally have over 100  CB holidays, not to mention a mass of nicely lineaged ones.  And that's only me.  I really don't think we need an ever increasing number of them in the AP.

I don't think we need a longer breeding period, though I would certainly take advantage of it if we did.  Because why not.

[Starscream]

9 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

The *only* way I'd support a longer holiday breeding period is with the OP's suggestion of not putting holiday eggs first in the AP (or having a separate 'holiday AP').  I spend 90% of my hunting time in the AP, that's literally hours every single day, and I would *hate* to be locked out of that for an *extra* week, three times a year. That's three extra weeks a year that I can't hunt the AP 'normally' at all (as in hunting for normal non-holiday breeds).

I would prefer to see a holiday AP -  just to allow for people who had their fill of holiday eggs to get their usual take.

 

I do support the false cool-down. That was put in place to prevent a second generation of holidays being produced.

 

 

[HeatherMarie]

6 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Maybe it is time to consider reducing the holiday multi-clutches to a maximum of two or three instead of four?

 

I would be much less opposed to any sort of holiday-extending measures if that happened. ... That sentence reads weird in my head, what I mean is that is a great idea and I think it would be a good way to balance out any possible holiday extensions. While I do *not* want holiday multi-clutches to go away completely (as an avid AP-hunter I benefit a ton from those extra eggs!), I think it's fairly obvious from the last few holidays that an *abundance* of holiday eggs are going to the AP now. Way more then a few years ago. Which results in a longer holiday AP wall, people complaining because of that, and regular eggs literally dying behind the holiday wall. So yeah, that's a good idea.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

PLEASE do not artificially reduce holiday multiclutches. If anything introduce an AP specifically for holidays (which I already support for various other reasons), but don’t limit clutches. The only time in 10+ years any holiday eggs have fallen into true ER status was Halloween 2016; that didn’t happen again in 2017 (much to my disappointment—I’d come prepared with Aeons this time!), suggesting people already started self regulating and maybe not breeding more random / messy lines. It’s also never happened for the other holidays which, due to their sharp CB limits, have naturally a lot less dragons. And let’s not forget that the eggs only got down to 2d22h—ish, which is still a long way from true panic mode.

 

Aside from all that, holidays are often the only time of year average players have a Winter dragon’s chance in the Volcano to catch 2gs from Prizes, Spriter’s Alts, female Hollies, etc. I’d hate to see those possibilities artificially limited. And that’s just for the real fancy stuff, never mind the thousands of stunning normal lines that pass through.

[Ruby Eyes]

17 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

The *only* way I'd support a longer holiday breeding period is with the OP's suggestion of not putting holiday eggs first in the AP (or having a separate 'holiday AP')

 

Would actually be a great package: Separate holiday AP plus extended holiday breeding period, to allow time for more lineages for all those breeds we have now!

 

That together would actually permit to keep the pace of 1 holiday generation per year - because by now, I have to put some lineages aside in favour of others just because there is not enough time for all of them! So the overall lineage progress has already gone down to LESS than 1 holiday generation per year.

[olympe]

Ideal: Separate holiday AP, full month of breeding old holidays (October for Halloweens, December for Winter Holidays and February for Valentines) plus one week before the new release to catch up on old CB holidays... (I wouldn't even be too unhappy if the fake "last bred date" stayed, to be honest.)

 

I guess a girl can dream.  

Edited October 11, 2018 by olympe

[The Dragoness]

I wouldn't mind seeing the breeding period extended to two weeks. A month seems too long, IMO. But please don't reduce multiclutch sizes! I wouldn't have even a fraction of the 2G Holidays I do (basically the only Holidays I collect) without them. ADP also made a good point about catching "special" eggs the same way. I understand that some people aren't as interested in collecting a bunch of Holiday eggs and would rather hunt the AP for regular eggs, though, so I also support having a separate Holiday AP for them. I'm neutral on the false "last bred" date.

[animatedrose]

I'd be in support of a holiday AP. Not so much reducing the multiclutch size. Those extra eggs are good for spreading lines around and helping newer users get their hands on dergs that they might not be able to get otherwise. Especially since, last I checked, it's still not guaranteed that the holiday biome will return. I know 90% of my holiday dergs come from the AP because I couldn't get most of the CBs last year due to slow internet.

 

I like the big multiclutch. I actually had a chance at getting some bred dergs that were, imo, impossible for me to grab CBs of in the holiday biome (like Hollies, RIP any chance of ever catching those in-biome). Less multiclutch means less breeding, less eggs in the AP, while the number of people grabbing them either remains the same or grows larger. I'd rather see a separate AP for holidays than see it reduced. Then there's no worry for regular eggs dying behind the holiday wall.

[Fuzzbucket]

Longer breeding period would be lovely - before the holiday would be best, so you could extend lines with new catches. But not allowing new catches to breed in the same year - so I'm fine with fake breed dates. I would hate to see less in the way of multiclutches though. And they are such a help to new players.

[anetofstars]

I support the suggestions in the first post. Quite logical.

[JavaTigress]

21 hours ago, animatedrose said:

I'd be in support of a holiday AP. Not so much reducing the multiclutch size. Those extra eggs are good for spreading lines around and helping newer users get their hands on dergs that they might not be able to get otherwise. Especially since, last I checked, it's still not guaranteed that the holiday biome will return. I know 90% of my holiday dergs come from the AP because I couldn't get most of the CBs last year due to slow internet.

 

I like the big multiclutch. I actually had a chance at getting some bred dergs that were, imo, impossible for me to grab CBs of in the holiday biome (like Hollies, RIP any chance of ever catching those in-biome). Less multiclutch means less breeding, less eggs in the AP, while the number of people grabbing them either remains the same or grows larger. I'd rather see a separate AP for holidays than see it reduced. Then there's no worry for regular eggs dying behind the holiday wall.

This. Very MUCH this. ( THOUGH I am HOPEFUL for a return of the Holiday Biome!)

 

AND I would say this goes ESPECIALLY if the holiday biome is to be an established 'thing'. 

Because here is the thing!  If holiday dragons have their OWN special biome... why NOT their own SPECIAL AP?

 

The beauty of it? A person could then hunt holidays IF they wished.... or ordinary eggs if they had no interest in them.... or EVEN a combination!

It would allow players more possibilities and options which can ONLY be a good thing.

 

So, in short, I support a holiday AP to solve the problem, NOT reducing clutches for holidays. They only get to 'reproduce after their kind' once a year, after all!

 

As for the OP's suggestion about nixing the cooldown on newly adulted holiday dragons and increasing the breeding window...I would say I am of two minds about it. I can see why lineage breeders would like more time. AT said, I would ONLY support it in conjunction with a separate AP for the resulting eggies. AT way those that aren't interested aren't hindered. For NEW release breeds at LEAST I think the  'artificial' cooldown should stay in place. On breeds from previous years.... not so sure. Again, I can see why this annoys the lineage breeders as other breeds can be bred to produce eggies as soon as they adult.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Ruffledfeathers]

The only thing I would personally miss if a holiday AP was introduced would be all the low time after holiday eggs. Tbh that’s what’s most exiting to me aside from the new holiday CBs, as I want to try for NDs but can’t commit enough to be able to wait due to work and general life

[Kegluneq]

11 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Longer breeding period would be lovely - before the holiday would be best, so you could extend lines with new catches. But not allowing new catches to breed in the same year - so I'm fine with fake breed dates. I would hate to see less in the way of multiclutches though. And they are such a help to new players.

 

+1

 

Increasing the breeding period for a week would be an interesting experiment to see how the AP behaves after the event's last minute. Last year the Halloween AP lasted pretty much an entire week once the event (the Halloween breeding season) ended, I'm really interested to see what's gonna happen this year with the AP eggs, maybe if not this year the next year Halloween AP eggs will die.

 

We don´t have this scenario with Christmas and Valentine eggs (yet) due to CB limits. Eventually we'll get there as well.

[Mnkn10]

I support both of these suggestions, but why not also give holiday breeds a low chance (maybe similar odds as golds?) of breeding true all year? (While keeping the current holiday breeding mechanics, or something similar, obviously). I hate the fact I can only breed holidays for 1 week A YEAR. That's kind of ridiculous, especially on a game about building lineages. I love most of our holiday breeds, but am reluctant to start new lineages with them, since I can only progress 1 gen a year (possibly 2 with this suggestion), and with the sheer number of holiday lineages I have, I know I won't be able to progress on all of them, so choosing which ones to work on can be kind of stressful.

[Wolfs_Bane]

You've got my support for a holiday Ap and longer breeding times. I never did like that they could only breed for a week, making it feel like anything you want to breed is under a crunch time limit. I'm not much of a breeder, but I would love to start some rather interesting lineage ideas I've had bouncing around in my head for some time now. And always feel like it's impossible due to the time limit. If you want my very honest opinion, I really think holiday breeding should start at the very first of each holiday and have it go all month long. If the holidays had their own Ap like they do a biome then that would make people happy on both sides. Those who wanted to work on lines can, and those who just want to keep up with normal lines until the new release can as well. ^^

 

WB 

[Pilauli]

I support this, for purely selfish reasons.

 

I had the idea for a really cool halloween lineage, which would be stairstep-shaped, but it starts with a black marrow/shadow walker pair, a SW is kept, influenced to match the BM parent, bred to a cavern lurker, keep the CL, influenced to match the SW parent, and so on.  Unfortunately, I am many, many years behind and have no way to catch up.  Even if I did it, I'd be working at a snails pace and not able to include any new eggs for something like 8 years, at which point they stop being new.  I might start such a thing if I knew I could add two generations per year, but right now, it's just a hopeless dream.