BSA to influence breed

[Aniia]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:22 PM, Shadowdrake said:

At this point I don't care how it's implemented, I just want some way to influence the result I want to get whether it's increasing one breed or decreasing the other. It's frustrating being one dragon away from finalizing a lineage and the necessary pairs refuse to produce the more common dragon, giving the uncommon one instead. Really, the second-to-last generation bottleneck is painful.

 

Yes, for the purpose of lineages I've found this frustrating as well. I actually got so angry at my Ices refusing to breed that I scrapped the project and started over making it a PB common lineage. That's on me, but after a year of breeding attempts of Ice with Vine, and getting Vine every. single. time. I was broken. I would love this BSA to exist to aid in lineage making and make it a little less frustrating.

 

That said, I don't see any other purpose for this BSA except for those who make lineages. I selfishly support this lol.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well - legendary x common is always going to be more likely to produce the common, no matter which way you jump. Now, blue banded and moonstone REALLY shouldn't be an issue !

[ComatosedRoses]

I would love to have a BSA like this, as I have recently started making my own lineages, it took me over 2 months to get this Aether dragon to breed for my lineage cause it kept breeding the other half of the lineage and giving me Aeria eggs. It was so frustrating, and for some reason I told myself if I used my fertility on the Aether it will definitely help breed the Aether egg (I know that is not how it worked but I was telling myself such so I wouldn't get to angry lol) 

I would agree that it should be kept to commons / uncommons - and off limits to metals and prizes and such. 

[olympe]

On 9/28/2018 at 8:44 AM, UnicornMaiden said:

How it would affect hybrid breeds:

 

Use of this BSA would decrease your chance of getting a hybrid from two non-hybrids. If you use it on a White and breed to a Daydream then the resulting egg would be more likely to be a White than either a Daydream or a Soulpeace.

 

When used on a hybrid it would work the same as a non-hybrid. If you use it on a Soulpeace and breed to anything else then the egg will be more likely to be a Soulpeace.

 

I was just re-reading this and thought that there could be a way to "influence" for a hybrid from non-hybrid parents - by using this BSA on *both* parents. So, you want to breed a Soulpeace from White x Daydream. In order to increase your chances for a Soulpeace egg, you'd need to use the BSA on both the White and the Daydream.

 

Makes sense?

[Shadowdrake]

Reminder that time-based dragons like lunar heralds exist, which can breed their "correct" color twice every 28 days (half the breeding chances of any other dragon), and seasonals, which can breed the "correct" season for only 3 months (1/4 the chances of any other dragon). Having this available would help lessen the frustration of getting the wrong result during their limited breeding availability.

 

https://dragcave.net/progeny/wmdwk mathematically, if you look at this progeny, there's 36 kids before I stopped breeding, all scripts. That is a minimum of 36 weeks of the non-script mates being on cool down after having bred a script. If we take just non-celestials that is still at minimum 19 weeks of pure scripts: one season is about 17 weeks, so that would at minimum delay any sort of seasonal lineage for at least another year, possibly more. This isn't even counting lack of interest or no egg results.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Shadowdrake

[BrazenChase]

I'm all for this, actually. 

 

With success scaling depending on the breed in question's rarity, I see this as a fair and helpful tool.

 

It's especially good for long lineages, or timed breeds such as LHs, as mentioned by ShadowDrake.

 

I'm all for quality of life, there's nothing necessarily challenging about RNG since it's all luck, and can eventually get frustrating if it just ain't with ya.

 

This would also be a fantastic tool to have when dealing with the wonky ratios around a lot of new release dragons. I understand rarity would still be a scaling factor, but it would help people enjoy new release breeds in lineage planning much sooner and more realistically without waiting months or years,

Edited May 7, 2020 by BrazenChase

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't think so. As I understand it it wouldn't change ratios, just result in a reduced chance of getting the egg you don't want... which might actually serve to delay the reduction in prevalence of newer breeds.

[Ruby Eyes]

Just one at a time, and every time you'd need to spend a BSA on it.

 

[Shione]

I'm all for this as it is currently laid out in the first post.

[camelia2]

Support for a way to influence breed regardless of who you aply it to (supress vs predispose)

 

But,

Instead of a whole new BSA, wouldn't it be more simple (and logic) to make FERTILITY affect the egg too?

As it is now, fertility is stated to not make diffrence toward the breed/gender of the egg and only 1 fertility is needed for 2 dergs.

I'd see it this way. You have a Magi x Red pair. You want Red. You apply fertility to the Red and it also increases the chance for the egg to be Red.

I see only 1 downside to this: pre-aplyed fertility, but I think very few people do this so probably no issue at all since colect more purples vs collect another breed is the same thing.

Also makes sense gramatically since fertility means something gets more prolific.

[Keileon]

Considering that Fertility lowers the chance of refusal to the point of basically preventing it in most cases, I don't think Fertility's benefits need to be stacked higher. I'd rather it be on an entirely different breed.

[HeatherMarie]

5 hours ago, Keileon said:

Considering that Fertility lowers the chance of refusal to the point of basically preventing it in most cases, I don't think Fertility's benefits need to be stacked higher. I'd rather it be on an entirely different breed.

 

This. Fertility is already a fairly high-powered bsa, and already does multiple things (increasing chance of getting an egg *and* decreasing chance of refusal), I think adding yet another benefit to that same bsa would be too much. 

[Tiira]

I haven't been following this discussion at all because I saw the headline and I thought it's not something I'd want to be added. That's mostly because I just started to think about the rarer breeds; my initial thought was that people would use it mainly to get more prizes and metallics and I can't see any point in that, they're supposed to be harder to breed because they are rare. Well, I read the first post and some replies and okay, this definitely makes sense. It can be quite frustrating indeed, trying to create common checkers, when all your pairs produce the same breed every single time when they even give an egg, week after another. I think this would especially be useful for seasonals since you have to wait all the year if they fail to give a seasonal egg during the right period. It would be absolutely vital to tie it to market prices or something like that so that it couldn't significantly change the rarity ratios but otherwise it would be a very useful and needed BSA.

 

I'm not so sure of all the name suggestions, though.

[Cal-ifornia]

I would definitely love to see something like this. As long as rares are accounted for (you guys have obviously considered those so yay!) I'd love this, and then would absolutely use it. I'd probably use it immediately upon release for this tricky stairstep

[Fuzzbucket]

I feel for you....

 

https://dragcave.net/progeny/6mKdW 

https://dragcave.net/progeny/RGYR9

[Cal-ifornia]

Oh jeez. Ratios are weird, haha.

 

Also, just a side-note: that pygmy lineage is gorgeous!

[Ruby Eyes]

Nowadays, the various ratios really annoy the heck out of me. I would like to move on with my breeding project of ALL COMMONS dangit WHY can't I just get the breed I need instead of the same ALL OVER AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN every frigging week.

This has stopped being fun. Now please introduce this BSA so the game can be fun again.

[Ruffledfeathers]

This would be lovely, coming from someone trying to pair off 100s of various checkers on my scroll. 

 

But, I have never experienced the same level of frustration as documented in this thread.

 

I know massbreeds of tricky dragons sometimes helps, but I guess we shoudnt have to resort to that to just get a common from a common. 

[Ruby Eyes]

Well. I'm trying to get Spinels from Plated Colossus. What do I get? Colossus eggs.

I'm trying to get a Lunar from Spinel. What do I get? Spinel eggs. What are you doing here, you're supposed to pop from that other pair!

I'm trying to get a Black from Ultraviolet. What do I get? Ultraviolets and Spitfires.

Unfortunately, I'm at a point in most of my lineages where I'm no longer simply looking to get 2nd gens - those are easier to just brute-force breed until you get the egg you want.

[Fuzzbucket]

Agreed. Incredibly I am trying to get 2g green firegems from silver - and what I get is - SILVER. Now that is rather odd.... I mean - silvers are RARE, right ?

 

Clearly this shouldn't be a way to force metals etc - but at least could we have something to give us no egg some of the time, rather than the unwanted breed over and over.

[Ruby Eyes]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

but at least could we have something to give us no egg some of the time

Heck NO! I'm getting "no egg" way too often already, whenever I'm NOT getting the wrong breed! I want the egg of the desired breed, and I'm willing to spend a poopton of BSAs on that!

[Fuzzbucket]

It cannot be made 100% or the ratios will go wild.

[Ruby Eyes]

I never talked about 100%. In fact, I was the one who suggested the market-price based calculations on page 1.
However, the CURRENT situation is just ridiculous, and replacing ONE fail with ANOTHER fail will NOT mitigate that!

[Fuzzbucket]

That's the complexity thing though - if there IS ever an influence breed BSA, it will need to include - probably - an increased likelihood no egg, to make up for the increase in in whatever breed you are aiming for and your distaste for the other breed - if you see what I mean.

[Ruby Eyes]

34 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

will need to include - probably

Now that, my dear, is purely speculation on your part. Whether this is even needed or not, just for adding a chance modifier (large for breeds of equal rarity, tiny for breeds of widely differing rarity) is not for us to implement. As I said, I can do without YET another source of failure.