Idea - Bodyguard BSA (formerly "Change Bite BSA")

[purplehaze]

20 minutes ago, olympe said:

Well, I only do it when I know I won't be up in five more hours, and since I usually don't go online before the evening (in my time zone) save for weekends, a 5-hour wait is as good as a 24-hour wait. So, the chance to get rid of an unwanted CB egg right this instant is an improvement worth the risk.  

 

20 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

Just for completion's sake: For some of us, a five hour cooldown is (nearly) a 24-hour cooldown.  I get home at 20h and go to bed at 24h. Anything I catch in that time, I'm going to be able to abandon after 20h the next day. So Bite is worth it - a chance of getting rid of the misclick before then, at no loss (well a loss of a few minutes, but that's not much of a difference).

Those sort of fell within my range of understanding. Limited play time might make it make sense.

[Starscream]

no support here - and I am a vampire collector. (about 1500)

 

repulse is not a new feature. it has been here since day one of vampires being able to bite.

 

where the ability to kill or repulse an egg could be a bit irritating, it is all part of the vampire dynamic and it does not feel broken. I ha ve had weeks with lots of success, and weeks with lots of wtf.

[Magellan]

Haven't experienced it since, hence my confusion and suggestion @Starscream
I am nowhere near what can be called an avid biter with my two, soon three vamps. Gotta say though, that just because something has existed for a long time, doesn't make it immune to criticism or possible change, nor does it make a thing good (careful here, just my opinion). There are some things in classic WoW that have #&%$§ me off since beta and yet they never changed, nor did people stop suggesting change. *shrugs*

Regardless, I do understand your point. And congratulations to that imoressive army!

Edited September 19, 2018 by Magellan

[Aalbiel]

To be a little blunt: I don't care if it wasn't meant in an unkind way (as someone pointed out), I am still strongly against this. Biting makes sense as a risky business lore-wise, and, still following the lore, it makes absolutely no sense for eggs to be in the wilderness. The wilderness is adults and frozen hatchies who are able to take care of themselves without any human or dragon helping them. When you abandon a non-frozen hatchie, it can't survive on its own,  so it goes the the AP. If your dragons reject an egg, that egg can't survive on its own, it should go to AP. Eggs "rejected" to the wilderness would just die. In that case you might as well replace "turn and rejects" with more kills. 

 

Game-wise, throwing the AP eggs to the wilderness instead is just depriving new players of the chance to catch a Vampire. Vamps are not released at Halloween, so if you don't have one your only chance at one is the AP or, more recently, trading. But new players are not likely to have anything of value to trade.

 

When you say "there is a huge section of gifting on forums", this is true. However the majority of DC players aren't on forums and shouldn't have to be to get a good start on the game.

 

I like that vamps can be caught somewhere, since they cannot be caught in cave since 2008.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Aalbiel

[osmarks]

I cannot see the point of changing their destination. Is there something wrong with people getting random free stuff?

[Moonlight_Eevee]

People drop CB Stuff into the ap all the time and can hatch them with little to no work. I see no difference in between those eggs and the Vampire eggs. A lot of the eggs would become wilderness eggs if the AP didn't exist (especially for those who forget their locked and have a chance of getting their egg back)

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Dalek Raptor

[Magellan]

38 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

To be a little blunt: I don't care if it wasn't meant in an unkind way (as someone pointed out), I am still strongly against this.

 

Yes, and being against it is totally fine. That's how opinions work. Just because I didn't mean to be unkind, doesn't make me "right" (though in my eyes no opinion is right/wrong, but simply neutrally speaking in favour or against something) and vice versa.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Magellan

[The Dragoness]

I think I understand what you're trying to suggest. I also have to kindly disagree, but only because I think it's kind of cool lore-wise and it can be exciting to catch a Vampire in the AP. But it is definitely frustrating when you consider how much work can go into getting a single Vampire and the lack of reward at times. I've lost a dozen or so baby Vamps to the AP myself,  many of which were then killed for whatever reason. So yeah, it can feel like a waste of time. But it does have benefits tied to the risk, I think. Kind of like earthquake. On the other hand, I wouldn't complain if TJ decided to go through with this though.

 

If you need more Vampires, I would love to try to help. I have a few adults I can bite with.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I have one Vampire that has 28 bites but lately I've been flopping with bites (having over 100 vampires myself) and I've only had 2 or 3 successful bites since February but that doesn't deter me from trying. If you need help catching a repulse, I can gladly offer my assistance on the matter

[animatedrose]

I also understand and get where @Magellan is coming from. But I also have to disagree.

 

Why throw perfectly good eggs into the wilderness where they're just going to die? If not for repulse, a lot of people that were not there for the initial Vampire release probably wouldn't have any at all. Yes, there are gifters and trades out there, but most of them rarely bat an eye at anyone that's new or has nothing of value to trade for a Vamp. It would be a big slap in the face to AP-Vamp users if that part of the BSA was suddenly removed and nobody could get them anymore without relying on current Vamp users, who are reliant on Bite working in their favor just to get more for themselves to up their odds of a successful bite.

 

And that's just those of us on the forums that CAN communicate that want to others. Non-forum users would be mostly screwed unless they get lucky enough to see a lot of Vamp gifts on the Hub.

[DragonLady86]

4 hours ago, purplehaze said:

It always surprises me a bit the number of people who try to use this as a way to get rid of CB eggs before the 5 hour cooldown. I find it is much more likely (in my own experience) that the egg will be killed, resulting in a 24 hour block of that slot! I don't use bite often due to the fact that my Vamps seem to be killers, but I can only recall one repulse ever and many more dead eggs. I can afford to be patient for 5 hours rather than tying myself up for 24. I guess if you only have one or two hours a day to spend on DC it makes sense. Otherwise? Not to me.

I don't do it very often, but I do have one vamp that I believe has a 100% track record of repulsion.  So on those rare occasions, she's my go to. 

[Magellan]

Since I was just sent a PM, I thought I might share my thoughts here too.

Might sound ridiculous to some, but I really don't care. The reason why I haven't asked anyone to track my repulsed vamp with the actual code is, that I don't want the new owner to feel bad. The little one seems to be fine and alive and just like you all said, whoever has it, might be happy with it. At first, I tried to make a trade post for "my" vamp, but I erased it. My lack of knowledge along with my discomfort with the situation raised my suggestion. And even though I am still strongly against that auto-abandon, I'm even more against wishing to take away another member's lucky catch. My own opinion aside, I see all your points and value them.

 

I do want to openly thank everyone who tried to help me out or even offered me a vamp. I do love the sprite and I already collected a sample of each gender, so I'm fine

Edit: Hmm what if there would be a dragon breed in the future, that could have a BSA like calming dragons down so they won't get repulsed by Vampires? Not a certainty, so that new BSA can still fail (example: You managed to convince your dragon to protect XY's offspring / You failed to convince...), but has a chance of letting you keep an egg or shielding young ones from Earthquake... *head scratch* Like this, everyone still has the usual effect and nothing changes, while some users can keep their offspring once in a while. Maybe even the Guardian Dragons could be used for this? that new BSA could be named "Bodyguard", where the dragon would use its tail to protect the egg or hatchie.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Magellan

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't quite get this - we DO have a rather good chance of keeping the vampire. Annoyingly (as one who does use it at times to get around the 5 hours) that happens more often than not, in my experience. And then I am stuck with a vampire for 5 hours instead !

[Aalbiel]

I don't know how much I would use it but I definitely like your BSA idea better than the abandon to wilderness idea. Maybe you should develop that? Idk if you have a dragon concept in DR...

 

(Fuzz - I think different people have very different experiences with this. I have heard people complaining about how they almost always get kills, while I - like you - mostly get successes, even when that "success" is not my goal like in the situation you described.)

[olympe]

I don't know, it seems like the BSA idea is just like a change to Bite and/or Earthquake, only with an extra hoop to jump through. I think I'd rather pass that one, too - unless someone can convince me otherwise.  

[Starscream]

On 9/19/2018 at 11:17 AM, animatedrose said:

I wouldn't be touching my Vamps if most of the time, the eggs would end up in the wilderness. The odds of turning are not very high anyway, let alone turning AND keeping. Not that I use my Vamps anyway (not a fan of them mostly killing everything they bite). If most of the time they repulsed right into the untouchable wilderness, I'd be angrier than if they ended up in the AP. At least with the AP, you might be able to get it back or have someone look for it for you. With the wilderness, nope, you're out of luck, it's gone forever, bye bye. Better luck next month.

 

I don't mind that they end up in the AP. I got my first Vamp from the AP. I doubt I would've ever gotten one without exploiting my prize otherwise. And at least they still stay within the system then. You have a chance of finding it again. Have fun doing that with the wilderness.

If I recall correctly, and the public stats were 50% chance turn and keep, 25% turn and repulse and 25% kill. So, the odds of turning is quite high.

 

On top of this, I do not support the suggested BSA for what its being suggested for, although I wonder if guardian dragons might be useful for protecting the scroll from attacks.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Starscream

[osmarks]

From attacks? What sort of attacks?

[Fuzzbucket]

I can't see a need for this suggestion.

 

I suppose the Guardian suggestion would be to prevent viewbombing ? But we can achieve that with hiding/fogging anyway.

[Magellan]

On 9/19/2018 at 4:52 PM, Magellan said:

On 9/20/2018 at 12:37 AM, Magellan said:

Edit: Hmm what if there would be a dragon breed in the future, that could have a BSA like calming dragons down so they won't get repulsed by Vampires? Not a certainty, so that new BSA can still fail (example: You managed to convince your dragon to protect XY's offspring / You failed to convince...), but has a chance of letting you keep an egg or shielding young ones from Earthquake... *head scratch* Like this, everyone still has the usual effect and nothing changes, while some users can keep their offspring once in a while. Maybe even the Guardian Dragons could be used for this? that new BSA could be named "Bodyguard", where the dragon would use its tail to protect the egg or hatchie.

 

In short, Bodyguard would protect your eggs and hatchies from harm, whereever that might come from. Be it dying from Earthquake or being thrown out / repulsed when bitten. It has a chance to succeed and a chance to fail. I'd rather describe it as an additional safety measure for those who want to take it.

Here's the summary. Just as an overview

[HeatherMarie]

No support for the BSA. Certain actions come with risks, and rightfully so. Earthquake is *hugely* beneficial if it works 'correctly', basically completely bypassing the egg's timers to get insta-hatchies... We need the chance of death to even that out. Same with Bite, really. Actions that have such huge pros need *some* sort of cons, and having a BSA to protect them from those cons sort of defeats the whole purpose of it all. 

 

I'd personally *love* a Guardian BSA that would somehow protect your growing things against viewbombing attacks, that would be awesome. But not against other BSA actions that you choose to use. 

[purplehaze]

A BSA to protect against the bad effects of another BSA? Seems to defeat the whole idea of risk/benefit balance. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of the idea at all. 

[Magellan]

There seem to be some misunderstandings. I'm not desperately trying to make something happen that noone would like, I'm just trying to explain as good as possible, so please bear with me^^

Being protected from dying in reagrds to Earthquake wouldn't hinder hatchies though to flee from your scroll since they are scared. I'd even suggest that there'd be no way to get them back through the AP, but that they are then really lost at least to their former owners, because they have been traumatized. A protection through Bodyguard should even increase the chance of hatchies scurrying away imo.

I never said "take the death chance away from bite". Guardian would merely provide a chance that your dragon wouldn't be thrown off your scroll. Repulsed is the term for that I guess.

 

Creating another BSA to completely cancel out another, would make zero sense.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

@Magellan

Please know that when people disagree with your suggestion it isn’t meant as an offence. Suggestions are never “trying to make something happen that no one would like” - it’s just suggesting something. I have to say though, I too disagree with the idea.

 

As others have said, a BSA with a chance to cancel another one out isn’t a very good idea in my eyes. Even if it is just a chance. If it was a 100% success then that would be a bit overpowered, but if it’s only a small chance, then ... Really what’s the point? Personally I don’t support it either way.

 

I’m also confused - in the first post you said:

 

“Bodyguard would protect your eggs and hatchies from harm, whereever that might come from. Be it dying from Earthquake or being thrown out / repulsed when bitten.”

 

But then just now you said:

 

“A protection through Bodyguard should even increase the chance of hatchies scurrying away imo.“

 

Those two sentences rather contradict. If there’s an increased chance in the hatchies surviving after being Earthquaked out of their eggs, but then an increased chance in them scurrying away...? I’m really confused as to how that’s beneficial in any way.

 

Yeah though, honestly nothing personal, this just isn’t a thing I would enjoy being implemented. 

[osmarks]

@Fuzzbucket A BSA for viewbombing protection doesn't make sense. If there was a way to do it without just removing or toning down sickness, it would probably have been implemented already, since viewbombing is an extremely serious problem.

[Fuzzbucket]

I know it doesn't - but that's what the suggestion sounded like. "Protect your scroll".... The only thing a whole scroll needs protecting against is viewbombing. I suppose what it would have to do (and I would NEVER want it !) is suspend views for everything, like stun does now.