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absofacto

Dorsal redesign?

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I'd be totally on board with giving Dorsals a new fresh look, they do look a bit flat.

On the topic of re-spriting certain dragon breeds I'd vote for Olives. Their legs just look like they are ending in stumps and they are overall.. not really appealing.

 

I actually rather like Guardians and how they look but that might be just nostalgia speaking.

 

 

 

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Hi friends, let's please not let this thread spiral into "_ breed needs an update," especially with more-recent breeds. That kind of sentiment can be very hurtful, and skips over most of the nuance that goes into sprite updates from a proposal/permission angle. Generally, artists are aware when their art has aged, and if it's something they want to fix, they will take care of it themselves.

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33 minutes ago, Pilauli said:

for spitfires [...] and maybe deep sea.

Please no. They're fine as is and are still some of my favourite in-game sprites. They have enough detail that's going to get lost when someone would try to resprite them (unlike the dorsals). Please leave them alone. Not everything from the dawn of Dragon Cave needs fixing. I'm totally fine with us picking out the worst candidates, but those two are not it.

 

(This isn't just my affection talking. I also very, very much like the Albino sprite, but that's obviously got issues, and I'd be okay with that getting touched up.)

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   I believe the Dorsals would benefit a lot from a sprite update, but all they really need are some shading tweaks and a few anatomy corrections. I'm not picky about how accurate they are, so no, I don't think they need to be on-par with the crazy-realistic stuff we have going in cave right now; that would be too much, and the people who like the older sprites would flip out like they did with the Silver update. Dorsals just need to be a bit more refined. They have the same wonkiness the old Seasonal sprites had, and the new Seasonals look spectacular while keeping a lot of the traits that speak of the old style (rounded noses, same poses, large eyes, etc.). Doing the same thing with Dorsals would be great! There are actually a some things I don't mind about Dorsals that could be kept, like the near legs' designs, the characteristic large paws, the shorter tail, and how the whole dragon isn't overly muscular or shiny. I know the adult pose isn't stunning, but for the sake of lineage appearances we'll have to keep it, unless the sprite update includes dimorphism so we have another adult that's posed differently, like what happened with the Horses.

   Considering feasibility, this might remain as a fever dream for years on end, because I don't think TJ is willing to allow anyone to alter preexisting sprites without the original creator's consent, and with Shiro gone from DC, Dorsals may be locked into the past forever. Plus, as PieMaster said, some artists only want to update their own art when they want to; Shiro could decide to not let anyone else touch the sprites, which means a highly-implausible return is the only way the Dorsals may be updated. If for whatever reason there can be an update, though, then I hope whatever changes are made to them are done in a way that respects the original idea and only portrays it better, instead of the project turning into "let's fix this because it's wrong and we think it should be like this", because that seems to be what caused sprite-update-drama in the past.

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2 hours ago, Nightwalkerkey said:

Noooo, the white hatchling pose is one of my all time favorites! It needs a bit of work maybe, but I'd die if the pose was changed.

 

I would love to see dorsals updated. They're in my top 5 least favorite sprites, seeming super flat. 

No pose change is needed as opposed to the thick thigh that needs to be fixed on the white hatchies

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@pinkgothic with the albino i think the pose is really cute it just needs tweaking because the dithering on the sprite is rather lack luster

but yeah

@PieMaster's right about the thread it's becoming a mess

ALSO

@skwerl56767 I have a hard time reading some things because of neurodevelopmental issues so it could be a big misinterpretation:
 

Quote

You must contact an artist before modifying their art for possible use in the cave (ie updating shading, adding alts, etc.). If they do not reply after 30 days, permission is granted by default.

Shiro is most definitely not going to answer, ever. Thus applying the 30 day rule. Maybe that could be a loophole, because I just don't find it fair that an old sprite is entirely untouchable because someone decided they're not touching the site ever again.

And I can't speak for Shiro, nore read their mind, but it seems they really wouldn't care if a sprite was scraped. Just because it seems like they left the site out of possibly anger judging by how the note they left on their forum page was worded.

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41 minutes ago, absofacto said:

@pinkgothic with the albino i think the pose is really cute it just needs tweaking because the dithering on the sprite is rather lack luster

but yeah

@PieMaster's right about the thread it's becoming a mess

ALSO

@skwerl56767 I have a hard time reading some things because of neurodevelopmental issues so it could be a big misinterpretation:
 

Shiro is most definitely not going to answer, ever. Thus applying the 30 day rule. Maybe that could be a loophole, because I just don't find it fair that an old sprite is entirely untouchable because someone decided they're not touching the site ever again.

And I can't speak for Shiro, nore read their mind, but it seems they really wouldn't care if a sprite was scraped. Just because it seems like they left the site out of possibly anger judging by how the note they left on their forum page was worded.

I feel like the 30 day rule only works if contact has at least been attempted.

 

Even if you feel like they won't answer or won't care, you shouldn't assume.

 

So make the attempt, wait the 30 days, and you'll be home free.

 

In the meantime, we discuss updating the Dorsals. 

 

And we probably should focus only on Dorsals for this thread. Anyone else thinks [insert name sprites] needs updates, they should make their own thread and brave the masses.

 

As for the Dorsal, as long as the dragon stays relatively close to the orginal sprites, I'm for it.

 

I've seen the response to drastic respriting, and that should be the avoided. (Golds. I'm talking about Golds.)

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Yep, if the Dorsal sprite update were to go like the Red update, I’d be so happy. That was such a needed update and the end result is honestly beautiful - all the shading and anatomy is better but it keeps the same pose to keep lineage builders happy. Dorsals are an awesome breed and I think some really gorgeous spritework could be done with it, if it’s done like the Red was :)

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I still feel like this should be done in private anyway and not done in public. The main reason why is due because of the vampire update thread where people worked hard on updating the lovely vampires only to find that an update was going on in private and people got upset over it because the thread was allowed to continue without prior notice to it

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Spitfires and Deep Seas are fine.

Honestly Dorsal is the only dragon imo that really needs a rework, besides Guardian. I'd honestly love it if Dorsals had a different pose, as unlikely as that is. 

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   Oh! I completely forgot about the 30-day rule. That's definitely a loophole that can be used, but yeah, we still need to try and find Shiro. I can't imagine it'll go lightheartedly, if Shiro left the site in anger, but as long as the question is brisk and objective it should be fine. If there's no answer in the first place, well, there we go.
   I'm not sure about private vs public updating... I think it largely depends on how comfortable the artists revamping the Dorsals are with sharing their work. Some people like to share the progress for motivation, but it might be wiser to do it privately so the update can happen sooner, since TJ has a thing with releasing things after people forget about them. I do agree that those of us here should be vigilant about telling others on the site though about the update (if/once it's confirmed to have started), because we don't need another half-finished thread like the Vampire Expansion...
 

   Guardians: Love them, but I wouldn't say they're on the revamp priority list, mostly because they're on-par with Nocturnes, Turpentines, Nebulas, and other dragons that don't need an update quite as badly. So for now I'd just focus on the Dorsals and see how it goes!

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In general, unprompted submissions for sprite replacement/updates are not a "thing." Because of this, there isn't really a process for it.

 

This is slightly tangental, but I will also add that most (if not all) sprite updates that have happened have been older breeds or changes initiated by the original artists themselves. You're free to not like sprites, but I'm not currently accepting suggestions for sprite updates.

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10 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

Please no. They're fine as is and are still some of my favourite in-game sprites. They have enough detail that's going to get lost when someone would try to resprite them (unlike the dorsals). Please leave them alone. Not everything from the dawn of Dragon Cave needs fixing. I'm totally fine with us picking out the worst candidates, but those two are not it.

 

(This isn't just my affection talking. I also very, very much like the Albino sprite, but that's obviously got issues, and I'd be okay with that getting touched up.)

 

I agree SO much, so...

 

4 hours ago, TJ09 said:

In general, unprompted submissions for sprite replacement/updates are not a "thing." Because of this, there isn't really a process for it.

 

This is slightly tangental, but I will also add that most (if not all) sprite updates that have happened have been older breeds or changes initiated by the original artists themselves. You're free to not like sprites, but I'm not currently accepting suggestions for sprite updates.

 

Thanks for that, TJ. (y)

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15 hours ago, absofacto said:

@pinkgothic with the albino i think the pose is really cute it just needs tweaking because the dithering on the sprite is rather lack luster

but yeah

@PieMaster's right about the thread it's becoming a mess

ALSO

@skwerl56767 I have a hard time reading some things because of neurodevelopmental issues so it could be a big misinterpretation:
 

Shiro is most definitely not going to answer, ever. Thus applying the 30 day rule. Maybe that could be a loophole, because I just don't find it fair that an old sprite is entirely untouchable because someone decided they're not touching the site ever again.

And I can't speak for Shiro, nore read their mind, but it seems they really wouldn't care if a sprite was scraped. Just because it seems like they left the site out of possibly anger judging by how the note they left on their forum page was worded.

Are you aware that Shiro also did the (original) Seasonals, which just got an update? 

Edited by olympe

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I did at once. I positively squeed. And showed them to my daughter, who hasn't played DC regularly in a long while but, for some reason, has loved autumn dragons from the very beginning. She was thrilled, too.

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@Shokomon not even really an assumption
 

Quote

PS: Oh and if you think "Oh cool! I go ask if i can get permission for Balloon/Dorsal/Seasonal (what ever!)" don't even try. I will not respond to any other permissions and delete them! This also includes the other sprites i have here in my Account. I know you love those sprites and i love you too for loving them but i just can't give permissions because they will just get more and more to keep track with and i just don't want that. So thank you for taking your time to read through what i had laying so heavily on my heart for so many years and i hope that this might help me to finally forget what happend back then. And i also hope that you Guys and Girls understand that i won't give any permissions and that i don't take any comissions when it comes to Art or Spriting. I might do comissions one day, otherwise they just gonna stay avaiable for my closest friends i found in the past years.

-Shiro

She said it herself she'll just delete the requests but if I have to message anyway I will.

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1 hour ago, absofacto said:

@Shokomon not even really an assumption
 

She said it herself she'll just delete the requests but if I have to message anyway I will.

Did you miss TJ saying HE'S not taking re-spriting requests from anyone except possibly the original creators? That's your answer, and the answer is no.

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    Hm, yeah, the Seasonals were updated... though I'm seeing that TCA is in the credits, so that's probably how it happened; that or maybe TCA (or another in-cave artist) has contact with Shiro and was able to ask about an update less obtrusively. TJ also said that we can't expect a future update by asking for it, so apparently yeah, the Dorsals won't ever be updated unless Shiro either gives permission to another artist in private, or comes and changes them herself (which looks really unlikely at the moment). As for whether or not any of us should ask her.... eh, probably not. Even if she miraculously comes back and says "sure, go ahead", we can't do much about it because TJ said there's no process for preexisting dragon art updates, which implies that we the community can't do anything about it. The likeliest route I see here is that, if she grants permission, she will have to choose a trusted artist to do the revamp and/or update them herself in private in order for the updates to release.

  
Also, I'm not sure if it matters at this point, but I've noted that Deep Seas, Thunders, Skywings, and Spitfires are all dragons that Shiro worked on that have other artists in the credits (Magmas are listed on the wiki too, but I'm not seeing her name on the site itself. Same with Ochredrakes but they've already had an update). So we might, MIGHT see an update for one of them if any of those contributing artists decide to make changes and/or can contact Shiro to do so; though of course, I highly doubt any of them will have updates except the Deep Seas. Balloons and Dorsals seem to be the only ones where only Shiro is in the credits, implying that she's the only one who'll be able to update them.

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@DragonLady86 I've PMed TJ and the answer was a maybe 
 

Quote

This assumes though that this is something that is officially sanctioned and asked for. I don't generally accept unprompted submissions for art replacement, but if you go through the process, I guess I could consider it.


So at this point I'm super confused lmao

Edited by absofacto

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But she already said:

 

Quote

 

PS: Oh and if you think "Oh cool! I go ask if i can get permission for Balloon/Dorsal/Seasonal (what ever!)" don't even try. I will not respond to any other permissions and delete them! This also includes the other sprites i have here in my Account. I know you love those sprites and i love you too for loving them but i just can't give permissions because they will just get more and more to keep track with and i just don't want that. So thank you for taking your time to read through what i had laying so heavily on my heart for so many years and i hope that this might help me to finally forget what happend back then. And i also hope that you Guys and Girls understand that i won't give any permissions and that i don't take any comissions when it comes to Art or Spriting. I might do comissions one day, otherwise they just gonna stay avaiable for my closest friends i found in the past years.

-Shiro

 

 

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