Allow re-influencing

[Ruby Eyes]

1 minute ago, camelia2 said:

it can't hatch before 4 days so logicly it isn't developed yet

Earthquake, forcing through the Kill action ... they succeed rarely, but these *are* methods to make a fully-cracked egg hatch early.

[camelia2]

2 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Earthquake, forcing through the Kill action ... they succeed rarely, but these *are* methods to make a fully-cracked egg hatch early.

Haven't you wondered why it succed so rarely? They're premature babies! That's why they usually just die. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by camelia2

[Ruby Eyes]

Just now, camelia2 said:

Haven't you wondered why it succed so rarely? They're premature babies! That's why they usually just die. 

Haven't you wondered how a forced hatchie runs away if it weren't developed?

 

Things that small and fragile usually die because too much force is used. And Earthquake is quite an unreliable force.

[Fuzzbucket]

6 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Haven't you wondered how a forced hatchie runs away if it weren't developed?

 

Things that small and fragile usually die because too much force is used. And Earthquake is quite an unreliable force.

 

This. Also who says our logic applies in Galsreim.

[camelia2]

On 11/7/2018 at 7:02 PM, Ruby Eyes said:

Haven't you wondered how a forced hatchie runs away if it weren't developed?

 

Things that small and fragile usually die because too much force is used. And Earthquake is quite an unreliable force.

And usually they *do* die. Those who run away are the strongest 😉

[Camilo543HF]

I don't see the need for this. Just think before you influence. Being able to 100% guarantee the gender of your dragon via BSA, and even be able to check it beforehand via BSA, makes gendering dragons easy enough. If you mess that up, there shouldn't be a re-do button. If you mess up and absolutely DO need a reset, we already have numerous options in place. Tele-bounce it to somebody and back to yourself or if it hatches, post it up for a genderswap trade. Too unique or rare to get a genderswap? Should've put a bit more thought in before you influenced.

 

I also don't not support this idea.  I don't like the idea of making things any easier than they already are but if we insist, there should be some real world basis around it. In herpetology, egg temperature is raised or lowered to alter phenotypical traits of the offspring, as well as gender. It's raised or lowered, but not raised and lowered. Such fluctuations in egg temperature would increase the chances of deformity and embryo mortality, but since we can't make deformed dragons, influencing an egg that has already been influenced once before should carry a risk of killing the egg. Similar to how vampire's BSA can kill eggs.

[DuskOfTheStars]

3 minutes ago, Camilo543HF said:

I don't see the need for this. Just think before you influence. Being able to 100% guarantee the gender of your dragon via BSA, and even be able to check it beforehand via BSA, makes gendering dragons easy enough. If you mess that up, there shouldn't be a re-do button. If you mess up and absolutely DO need a reset, we already have numerous options in place. Tele-bounce it to somebody and back to yourself or if it hatches, post it up for a genderswap trade. Too unique or rare to get a genderswap? Should've put a bit more thought in before you influenced.

 

I also don't not support this idea.  I don't like the idea of making things any easier than they already are but if we insist, there should be some real world basis around it. In herpetology, egg temperature is raised or lowered to alter phenotypical traits of the offspring, as well as gender. It's raised or lowered, but not raised and lowered. Such fluctuations in egg temperature would increase the chances of deformity and embryo mortality, but since we can't make deformed dragons, influencing an egg that has already been influenced once before should carry a risk of killing the egg. Similar to how vampire's BSA can kill eggs.

Just going to note Influence has a fail chance, it's not 100%.

 

Other than that, your logic makes sense, though I will admit I think the suggestion would be nice.

[Camilo543HF]

Just now, DuskOfTheStars said:

Just going to note Influence has a fail chance, it's not 100%.

 

Other than that, your logic makes sense, though I will admit I think the suggestion would be nice.

Really? Thanks for informing me! I'd actually never had an influence fail since I started in 2011, so I made the assumption. 

[DuskOfTheStars]

Just now, Camilo543HF said:

Really? Thanks for informing me! I'd actually never had an influence fail since I started in 2011, so I made the assumption. 

Easy mistake, so no worries! It's a very small chance, but it is there.

[Keileon]

I support this suggestion, especially as there's that slim chance of Influence failing. I've only had that happen to me once, but it's still possible.

 

Will Precog be useful for determining that, actually? If it is, this becomes doubly-useful-- Influence, then Precog to make sure it worked. If it did, great; if it didn't, then you're forced to bounce the egg and try again if you can't re-Influence it. Maybe some balance in having to Influence the other gender first to go back to the one you want, then having to check again-- using up three Influences and two Precogs, likely-- making it helpful but not the most desirable course of action.

 

Am I rambling? I feel like I am.

 

Either way, support.

[Fuzzbucket]

? YES you can use precog to be sure it worked. BUT influence STILL won't hold through teleport.

 

And yes it's not 100%. MY poor first Shimmer - a much loved gift who.... - was also my first influence fail.

 

https://dragcave.net/lineage/iJbJ2 

[purpledragonclaw]

I would definitely support this. I've misinfluenced (is that even a word?) eggs before and am not one who bounces eggs to remove the influence, so this would be handy for me.

[pinkgothic]

I'd still be interested in this, for all the reasons already stated. Influence has a 100% chance of success now, but its potential to fail was never my motivation, so I still would love to see this.

 

On 11/17/2018 at 10:00 PM, Camilo543HF said:

I also don't not support this idea.  I don't like the idea of making things any easier than they already are but if we insist, there should be some real world basis around it. In herpetology, egg temperature is raised or lowered to alter phenotypical traits of the offspring, as well as gender. It's raised or lowered, but not raised and lowered. Such fluctuations in egg temperature would increase the chances of deformity and embryo mortality, but since we can't make deformed dragons, influencing an egg that has already been influenced once before should carry a risk of killing the egg. Similar to how vampire's BSA can kill eggs.

Late response, sorry! I'm not sure I can get behind this reasoning - the "bounce the egg and then re-influence it" solution we have at the moment has this exact same herpatological problem, doesn't it? You've accidentally raised the temperature of the egg; you bounce it with teleport and the effect wears off; now you lower the temperature of the same egg, and it works, entirely without damaging the dragon. (You can even do this as often as you'd like until the egg hits the 3d mark.)

[Sundew]

Support. Much more convenient than bouncing for group players, and accessible for solo players.

 

As far as in-game consequences go, correcting an influence would go from 2 Influences + 1 Teleport --> 2 Influences, which I don't think is too great a loss for people concerned with punishing players for mistakes.

Onceyou get enough BSA dragons, an extra Influence/Teleport or two really isn't a significant deterrent anyway. At worst it's an inconvenience that imo is not worth preserving.

[FoxintheBox4]

Support, you still ahve limited use of how many Pink dragons you have..

[Camilo543HF]

On 5/2/2020 at 2:58 PM, pinkgothic said:

I'd still be interested in this, for all the reasons already stated. Influence has a 100% chance of success now, but its potential to fail was never my motivation, so I still would love to see this.

 

Late response, sorry! I'm not sure I can get behind this reasoning - the "bounce the egg and then re-influence it" solution we have at the moment has this exact same herpatological problem, doesn't it? You've accidentally raised the temperature of the egg; you bounce it with teleport and the effect wears off; now you lower the temperature of the same egg, and it works, entirely without damaging the dragon. (You can even do this as often as you'd like until the egg hits the 3d mark.)

I definitely see your point, but I see the bounce and re-influence method as more of a work-around than an actual intended function that can be explained.

[Pilauli]

I like this idea.  My only concern is that this would let people accidentally re-influence their dragons wrong.  (For example, mouse wobbles and clicks the wrong link.)

 

For that reason, I do NOT support limiting it to one re-influence.  That is enough to influence it right, mess it up, and then be unable to fix it.  (Well, unable to fix it without bouncing, but the whole point of this suggestion is to make bouncing unnecessary.)

 

Allowing multiple re-influences would let players fix any mistakes they notice, but would be less useful if someone does it wrong and doesn't notice.  (Like the mouse wobbles and you click the wrong link.)

 

For that reason, it might be nice if re-influencing had an extra layer of verification.  This would pair well with the suggestion to remove a lot of the password verifications for BSAs, because basic influencing could lack verifications, and then re-influencing could keep the password requirements.

[KrazyKarp]

A small QoL update with no downsides? Of course I support!

 

Also, don't try too hard to link game mechanics and lore. They're very separate things, and at times overlap, but in general don't and shouldn't. You would have some very weird lore if you based it solely off of game mechanics, and some very weird game mechanics is you based them solely off of lore.

[Keileon]

My last post was made before we had word from TJ that Influence couldn't actually fail anymore, but my stance hasn't changed. Support.

[Fuzzbucket]

What Keileon said. Kind of - why not ? For any player not on forum, there's no way out of a mistake...

[olympe]

On 11/17/2018 at 10:06 PM, DuskOfTheStars said:

Just going to note Influence has a fail chance, it's not 100%.

 

Other than that, your logic makes sense, though I will admit I think the suggestion would be nice.

Actually, TJ has confirmed that it doesn't have a fail chance, but has been 100% reliable for a while. And most reports of "influence-fail" are probably due to human error.

 

As a compromise for the punishment vs. no punishment, maybe eggs which get more than one influence could have 6 hours added to their timer for each additional influence? Not world-changing, but a bit of a drawback. 

[MissK.]

I don't see why there needs to be a "punishment" involved in the first place, surely using up 2 pinks instead of one is already enough of a drawback so that someone wouldn't just keep doing it on purpose (not that that would affect anyone else negatively in the first place). 

 

Full support for re-influencing, I have also made mistakes while influencing several eggs in a row and it's annoying to have to swap them back and forth.

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, MissK. said:

I don't see why there needs to be a "punishment" involved in the first place, surely using up 2 pinks instead of one is already enough of a drawback so that someone wouldn't just keep doing it on purpose (not that that would affect anyone else negatively in the first place). 

 

Agree very much with this.

[purplehaze]

Agree that there should really be no need for punishment. If I want to use up all my Pinks changing an egg's influence back and forth, that surely doesn't hurt anyone but me.

I have never been in a situation where I couldn't get someone to help me change an influence, but for those who are not on the forum the situation is much different. And there is risk inherent in trusting someone else to return the egg that you are sending to them -- maybe not much risk among forum members, but still it is there.

I really see no drawback to allowing multiple influences.

Edited October 20, 2020 by purplehaze

[Shadowdrake]

Yeah, there isn't a punishment for forgetting you already precogged aside from using a bsa, and canceling and reusing teleports doesn't even have that drawback (cough trade bumpers). I don't see why a second influence needs it.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Shadowdrake