Allow re-influencing

[olympe]

On 9/22/2018 at 4:46 PM, Natayah said:

I know there has been other suggestions by newer players at times that it is "unfair" they are unable to take advantage of as many or have large BSAs armies & shouldn't have to go to the forums for help. I don't know what to say to this. If you want to be a non-social player and do it alone, that is what you are working with.

Pretty much this. Nobody here started with an army of BSA dragons. Nobody. Absolutely everybody had to make do without being able to use the BSA, or at least without using it all the time. Creating a BSA army takes time and effort, and the reward is, well, endless use of the BSA in question. Otherwise, we'll get complaints next that new players don't have many dragons, much less [insert random number] of every breed.

[StormBirdRising]

I would like to have the ability to reinfluence an egg when I have influenced it incorrectly. It would just be easier for me to just reinfluence it when I realize that it has been influenced incorrectly.

[Fuzzbucket]

It's dead easy to bounce. Not that I mind either way - if people want to use up all their pinks re-influencing - I don't mind if they are allowed to.

[osmarks]

Bouncing is less easy for the many, many players off the forums.

[Moonwick]

It might be easy to bounce but it'd also be pretty easy to reinfluence. (Unless you have no Pinks, but that's a given at first, and that is something you work towards eventually.) They're both easy things, it's just that we're used to one of them. I simply want to be able to fix my own mistakes and just reinfluence things. Not that I don't like being sociable on here and asking for help, just when I make a mistake as small as that, I'd prefer to fix it myself, even if I have to use up another BSA.

 

It's funny, I didn't learn that you could even bounce an egg to remove influence until recently. Is that fact stated anywhere else except the forum? Like, on the wiki or anywhere? The only place I learned about it was on the forum.  It is. Answered in a PM & By Fuzz. Thanks! Was genuinely curious.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Tesla

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, osmarks said:

Bouncing is less easy for the many, many players off the forums.

 

I think almost everyone playing was recruited by someone, or has gone on to recruit someone. I think the vast majority of players know another player IRL who they can bounce with.

 

@Tesla it does say on the scroll help page that influence wears off if an egg is teleported, so kinda yes it DOES say off forum.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I think almost everyone playing was recruited by someone, or has gone on to recruit someone. I think the vast majority of players know another player IRL who they can bounce with.

 

While I can agree with this, a lot of the time the people you can bounce with may 1) be inactive, 2) be busy a lot of the time you're free, 3) be in a different timezone, and probably a lot of other things. As well, it can be a lot of hassle to have to contact someone and set up a trade, maybe all your Teleporters are on cooldown... And of course, not everybody does have anyone to bounce off. It would be a lot easier and more helpful to not have to rely on somebody else to do so. In a way, I feel having to rely on other users prompts multiscrolling for those reasons.

 

I previously said I was impartial but tbh reading the thread has made me a bit more accepting towards this. If I did critically misgender a dragon, it would be a bit of a bother for me to have to bounce, and allowing re-influencing would be a weight off. I suggest you only be allowed to reinfluence an egg once though - you get a chance to reinfluence only one time, if you decide against it you're fluffed, and both BSAs are eaten up and have to go on cooldown. (I don't know why people would do it more than once, but I disagree with infinite BSA usage on one egg. Poor thing would fluctuate between hot and cold so much it'd probably die)

[purplehaze]

It may be dead easy to bounce an egg, but it isn't always convenient. I would much prefer being able to change the influence myself as soon as I discover the mistake, rather than having to ask for help and then wait an indefinite period of time until someone is available. I do not have any real life contacts who play the game and many of my forum friends are in other time zones. 

[Fuzzbucket]

<deleted>

 

(I am VERY old !)

Edited September 27, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Fair enough. If people want to waste all their pinks, I really don't mind.

 

Go here !

 

 

 

Huh? That’s the thread we’re currently in!

[Fuzzbucket]

Oops I meant to put that in the OTHER one ! deleting !

[cbussiere]

Full support. I just accidentally misgendered an egg. :V Though I'd like it if there were still some indication on the actions page, like the "(Already influenced)." I use that to tell if I've influenced an egg or not when I'm doing a batch (easier than actions log). Maybe the link could say "Re-influence" instead of "Influence"?

It's annoying too that you can't influence eggs below 3d, but I guess I can't complain about that since there's a biological reason.

[SkyMet]

Since you can't transfer CB prize eggs or eggs bought in the market, it's impossible to bounce them to remove an influence.  When I finally buy a CB silver, I plan to influence it male since I don't have a male yet.  I hope I'm paying proper attention at the time, since it will be my one shot to influence it correctly.

[Fuzzbucket]

I didn't particularly support this idea until I read this post.... Stunningly good point; now I am behind it all 100%

[osmarks]

I'm not sure CB prizes are particularly significant given how few have them, really.

[JavaTigress]

On 9/19/2018 at 5:05 PM, animatedrose said:

Same, totally in support of re-influencing. Though having more Pinks in general would probably benefit me a ton too, lol.

Yes. I support this also.... if ONLY because influence sometimes fails, and sometimes mistakes are made.

AND I also agree that one can NEVER have enough Influence pairs ( I am currently STILL in need of more Pinks) .

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, osmarks said:

I'm not sure CB prizes are particularly significant given how few have them, really.

But market eggs are. And the same applies to them.

[osmarks]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

But market eggs are. And the same applies to them.

True, that is much more significant, especially since I expect much use of the market is to make lineages with rare stuff.

[camelia2]

I don't really support this,  both logic and lore-wise

And that's because lore is saying that eggs contai youngs all-ready to hatch so this means they're very well developed embryos until the 3 days mark. Similar to crocodiles and some fish, the hot/cold influencing can't be undone because once developed enough, you can't just change the emryo

Also logic-wise, wrong influencing is your personal mistake, similar to auto-abandoning important eggs, which purposely can't be undone, and is fair easy to just influence corectly the first time...just pay atention. I never influenced wrong, but I do understand it can be easely confused, but as I said, you can't get back an abandoned egg on your own, but someone can help you to do so, just as influencing wrong

[pinkgothic]

57 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

And that's because lore is saying that eggs contai youngs all-ready to hatch so this means they're very well developed embryos until the 3 days mark. Similar to crocodiles and some fish, the hot/cold influencing can't be undone because once developed enough, you can't just change the emryo

There's a problem with that logic (although it's an easy mistake to make - in fact, I had the same confusion for quite a while, myself):

 

If this were true, it wouldn't make any sense that you can influence the egg at the 3d 1h mark - but you can. By implication, you can still influence the gender at that point. If a hatchling would naturally have been female, but you influence it male at 3d 1h and get a male, this isn't any different from influencing the egg female at 7d and then re-influencing it as male at 3d 1h. So, lore-wise, re-influence absolutely makes as much sense as the single influence shot we have now.

 

(That the single influence shot we have now doesn't make lore sense is a different problem, but there's really no fixing that. And I see no reason to apply lore selectively, i.e. it's fine to ignore it for single influence, but it must be applied for re-influencing.)

 

Similarly, you can currently influence an egg female at 3d 1h, bounce it off another player immediately, and then influence the egg male. This isn't considered a lore problem by the minds behind Influence, either.

 

57 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

Also logic-wise, wrong influencing is your personal mistake, similar to auto-abandoning important eggs, which purposely can't be undone, and is fair easy to just influence corectly the first time...just pay atention. I never influenced wrong, but I do understand it can be easely confused, but as I said, you can't get back an abandoned egg on your own, but someone can help you to do so, just as influencing wrong

Sure, and I've influenced wrong approximately once in the entire history of my playing Dragon Cave (2008, i.e. from before Influence was even a thing). We can both pat ourselves on the back - we're good at getting it right. We don't have any neurological problems to contend with, for example. Although I can't say that of myself any more, I damaged my brain last year and I have sporadic but intense troubles with short-term memory (sometimes I make decisions and five seconds later I only remember that I made a decision, not what it was). Still, I do manage fine.

 

Nonetheless, I'm making this suggestion, because I see that other people do struggle with this.

 

If you want people to suffer their mistakes, are you also in favour of not letting Influence wear off when an egg is traded? (I apologise if this sounds flippant, but I'm genuinely curious.) Because at the moment, that's what people are doing to correct their mistakes, since the game does let them do that - and as you can see in the thread in Site Discussion, it happens often enough that they need it.

 

So, there is an in-game way to undo an Influence, except as others have pointed out, for Market eggs, the current way would not work. Allowing re-influencing would level the playing field for eggs and let the whole process be a lot more intuitive.

Edited November 6, 2018 by pinkgothic

[Fuzzbucket]

14 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

If you want people to suffer their mistakes, are you also in favour of not letting Influence wear off when an egg is traded? (I apologise if this sounds flippant, but I'm genuinely curious.) Because at the moment, that's what people are doing to correct their mistakes, since the game does let them do that - and as you can see in the thread in Site Discussion, it happens often enough that they need it.

 

So, there is an in-game way to undo an Influence, except as others have pointed out, for Market eggs, the current way would not work. Allowing re-influencing would level the playing field for eggs and let the whole process be a lot more intuitive.

 

This, exactly. I have plenty of magis and plenty of mates to bounce with. Others are not so lucky.

 

And we all make mistakes from time to time. *weeps for the Caligene I accidentally abandoned earlier today, when I intended to abandon another one entirely*. Not to mention influence ins't 100% certain anyway.

[Shadowdrake]

I absolutely support this. There is absolutely no detriment to the user or the site if you're given the ability to fix this mistake on your own, aside from being able to wrongly influence previously influenced eggs which you can fix again. There's no benefit to being forced to find help or live with a misgender if you're not a social player. The trade hub and market is already a huge help for players who don't go offsite; a bsa adjustment is similarly helpful, just on a smaller scale.

[camelia2]

Yet you have to live with the fact you abandoned a good egg and you're not allowed by TJ to ask the comunity to help get it back.....just sain' these are intentional mechanics of the game to kind of 'make you suffer' tbh.... and no, i'm not against influence wearing off at transfer, because this is a way of forcing a player into the comunity... actualy the need of a pink is what got me to the forums...I am a lonely wolf and I prefer solo playing, but well.... 

And wearing off kind of make sense lore wise.... the cooldown for a pik is 7 days right? Exactly how much an egg has to live. So I see this as the egg being in the close proximty of that dragon and constantly influencing it with magic. When is traded to someone else, is not influenced anymore. ....And yes I know this contradicts what I said about embryos,  but this whole thing is messed up

 

And I thought about lore wise even as I was writting that and I'm still puzzled of why you can influence until 3 days instead of 4 days when a dragon hatches.... actually this should be changed.... why 3 days TJ, why?

[Ruby Eyes]

Why not? 9 years ago, eggs couldn't even hatch instantly at the 4 day mark, instead each egg had a randomly picked point in time between 3 days and 3.5 days (I don't think I've seen any egg hatching right at 4 days before that change).

 

If an egg can hatch right at the 4 day mark also depends on the stats, anyway. Stats = development. If the egg isn't developed enough for hatching yet, why shouldn't it still be able to receive a gender-determining influence?

[camelia2]

Well,  because no matter how many views an egg has, it can't hatch before 4 days so logicly it isn't developed yet so this mean you can still influence, but between 4 days and 3 days,  the dragon can hatch but it simply doesn't want to so it's fully developed and shouldn't be eligible for influencing anymore....