Trading hub idea

[Laryal]

Hello i am watching the trading hub an yesterday had to make another trade request  cause on of my eggs hatched.What i am suggesting is allowing the trades to keep going till the dragons grow up. So we the players do not have to go back an redo a trade request. So example now  trade egg or eggs they hatch  go an redo anouther trade.I know just takes a few secs or so but would it not be faster like this example Trade egg or eggs they hatch they still are in trade an you do not have to repost a new code.Dragons grow up trade gone. I am not trying to be lazy but trying a new  way to make the trading hub go smoother what do you guys think?  

[Suzumiya]

I sort of like it and sort of don't. It would make things a lot smoother that's for sure, but then you would have the people who ask for hatchies only getting eggs that could possibly sit there for awhile, because they're either the only offer on the trade, and the person knows the other won't cancel (because it's something rare, like an ND, 2G prize, CB Gold, etc) or because the egg only has a few hours left. 

 

It would be quite annoying to get a ton of egg only offers on a trade where I ask for hatchies...just because they know they can leave the egg in the trade until it hatches.

 

But it would also be nice to keep the trades that don't specify which from cancelling automatically. I really do hate having to re-do my trades every time something hatches.

[Laryal]

Yea understand that an never thought of it that way hmmm ok have to rethink on how this can work then  any suggestions?

Edited September 14, 2018 by Laryal

[olympe]

Well, no. But a couple of other things to consider.

You create a trade and...

1. One of your egg hatches. However, the person who offered on your trade wanted to influence the egg a certain way. Now, they suddenly get a hatchie that might or might not misgender. I doubt they'd be happy about that.
2. One or more of your hatchies grows up. Since there's more in your teleport, the teleport stays. Someone offered a 2nd gen prize on your collections of 4 dinos (for example).  Now, all of a sudden, there are only two dinos left because two hatchies grew up, and you suddenly accept the offer. I dare say that the person offering the prize would feel severely cheated.

ETA: Maybe it could work if...

Teleports where the content of the teleport changes lose all offers. Offers, however, may change - at least from egg to hatchling.

Edited September 14, 2018 by olympe

[Laryal]

Well see if the egg is there an they message each other then the one can influence the egg for them an the trade go on. There is a way around this have the eggs in the trade or hatchlings in the trade around six days if at all possible. an yea if they grow up then the exchange would be void. trying to think of more ways so any suggestions can still come.

[RainDear]

You are unable to message players from the trading hub. You can only do that from the trading forum.

[DragonLady86]

and you can't influence it while it's in a trade so you would have to make a new one anyway.

[Laryal]

I mean before you trade message them here talk about it then influnce an trade.

[purplehaze]

25 minutes ago, Laryal said:

I mean before you trade message them here talk about it then influnce an trade.

Except that many people in the trading hub are not on the forums.

[Laryal]

Ok true hmmm ok maybe not a good idea thought it was.

[DragonLady86]

It's actually weird to me that no one seems to be interested in this idea, despite the fact that there have been MANY topics asking for teleports not to expire just because an egg hatched.  What's different about this one besides the new trade hub?

[Laryal]

1 hour ago, DragonLady86 said:

It's actually weird to me that no one seems to be interested in this idea, despite the fact that there have been MANY topics asking for teleports not to expire just because an egg hatched.  What's different about this one besides the new trade hub?

 Not Sure was wondering myself really. But i guess we can let this idea die oh well.

[pinkgothic]

13 hours ago, olympe said:

Well, no. But a couple of other things to consider.

You create a trade and...

1. One of your egg hatches. However, the person who offered on your trade wanted to influence the egg a certain way. Now, they suddenly get a hatchie that might or might not misgender. I doubt they'd be happy about that.
2. One or more of your hatchies grows up. Since there's more in your teleport, the teleport stays. Someone offered a 2nd gen prize on your collections of 4 dinos (for example).  Now, all of a sudden, there are only two dinos left because two hatchies grew up, and you suddenly accept the offer. I dare say that the person offering the prize would feel severely cheated.

ETA: Maybe it could work if...

Teleports where the content of the teleport changes lose all offers. Offers, however, may change - at least from egg to hatchling.

 

The teleport side behaving as-is would nerf a lot of the benefit of this suggestion to me, so I'd rather that weren't generally excluded.

 

At the moment I sometimes lose a lot of viable trade time (up to roundabout twenty hours) to something hatching when I'm not around, meaning I either won't see any offers made before the critter hatches and breaks the trade, or I need to cancel the trade, incubate the egg, recreate it, so I can be sure that next time I can check the trade, I've not "lost" offers to the aether. That would be one major reason I'd be interested in this.

 

Any part of the trade growing up behaving as-is makes sense to me, though, both on the trade offer side and on the teleport side.

 

On the teleport side you could abuse the behaviour to wait until a four-part trade is down to just one element before accepting whatever was offered (forget it happening accidentally, I'm convinced it's going to happen on purpose - not at all by the vast, vast majority of people, but there will be some people like this, even purely just given how the surprisingly prevalent recurring attitude in some suggestion threads seems to be that as long as the game allows it, no one's allowed to complain about it, even if it's 'exploitable' to hurt others... so this is one I'd want to get 'right' from the mechanics!).

 

On the offer side it'd be less of a problem (person accepting has very fine-grained control over the time they accept an offer - especially if the timers become more accurate, even a 4d 1h offer shouldn't pose much of a problem), but I'm not sure when it would be much of a benefit. Presumably the person offering is giving their best offer, and once something grows up, it's probably not valuable enough any more and fairly unlikely to be accepted over other offers. Prolonging the life of the nerfed offer is probably not going to score the person offering the trade.

 

What I'd rather like to see to address the gender problem is that trades show influence and precogs that the respective scroll owner has done on the eggs/hatchlings. Not influenced or precogged, but might hatch before you can check back on the trade? Hold back on offering.

 

(I already influence everything before I put it up in trade as a matter of principle, but at the moment, you need to take my word for it once it hatches and I repost the trade. If you offer on that while its ungendered, you've really got the same problem as if it had just hatched on you in the teleport - you don't actually know if it'll misgender. Even if you trust me and even if I'm sure I'm telling the truth, I might be having a scatter-brained moment and conceivably be confusing the critter with a different, similar one I have on my scroll.)

 

Summary:

• influences and precogs are shown on teleports / offers (with a reminder that an influence only applies if the egg hatches while in trade)
• eggs hatching doesn't break the teleport / offer
• hatchlings growing up does break the teleport / offer

I can't seem to find past dedicated threads that discussed not-breaking-trades-when-hatching, but I found this on 'show-precog-on-trade', by blockEdragon, which has some discussion from TJ about the difficulty of finding a proper text to display for influence:

There's also this thread on the scroll owner using actions on critters while they're in teleport, which is indirectly related (in that it's been brought up in this thread as something you can't do, complicating matters), and has gotten a lot of support:

 

[olympe]

54 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

 

The teleport side behaving as-is would nerf a lot of the benefit of this suggestion to me, so I'd rather that weren't generally excluded.

 

At the moment I sometimes lose a lot of viable trade time (up to roundabout twenty hours) to something hatching when I'm not around, meaning I either won't see any offers made before the critter hatches and breaks the trade, or I need to cancel the trade, incubate the egg, recreate it, so I can be sure that next time I can check the trade, I've not "lost" offers to the aether. That would be one major reason I'd be interested in this.

 

Any part of the trade growing up behaving as-is makes sense to me, though, both on the trade offer side and on the teleport side.

 

On the teleport side you could abuse the behaviour to wait until a four-part trade is down to just one element before accepting whatever was offered (forget it happening accidentally, I'm convinced it's going to happen on purpose - not at all by the vast, vast majority of people, but there will be some people like this, even purely just given how the surprisingly prevalent recurring attitude in some suggestion threads seems to be that as long as the game allows it, no one's allowed to complain about it, even if it's 'exploitable' to hurt others... so this is one I'd want to get 'right' from the mechanics!).

 

On the offer side it'd be less of a problem (person accepting has very fine-grained control over the time they accept an offer - especially if the timers become more accurate, even a 4d 1h offer shouldn't pose much of a problem), but I'm not sure when it would be much of a benefit. Presumably the person offering is giving their best offer, and once something grows up, it's probably not valuable enough any more and fairly unlikely to be accepted over other offers. Prolonging the life of the nerfed offer is probably not going to score the person offering the trade.

 

What I'd rather like to see to address the gender problem is that trades show influence and precogs that the respective scroll owner has done on the eggs/hatchlings. Not influenced or precogged, but might hatch before you can check back on the trade? Hold back on offering.

 

(I already influence everything before I put it up in trade as a matter of principle, but at the moment, you need to take my word for it once it hatches and I repost the trade. If you offer on that while its ungendered, you've really got the same problem as if it had just hatched on you in the teleport - you don't actually know if it'll misgender. Even if you trust me and even if I'm sure I'm telling the truth, I might be having a scatter-brained moment and conceivably be confusing the critter with a different, similar one I have on my scroll.)

 

Summary:

• influences and precogs are shown on teleports / offers (with a reminder that an influence only applies if the egg hatches while in trade)
• eggs hatching doesn't break the teleport / offer
• hatchlings growing up does break the teleport / offer

As I pointed out before, hatchlings growing up don't need to break a teleport or an offer. If it happens on an offer, you can see what you get just before you hit "accept". (In such a case, I hope TJ would allow for transfer of a dragon within 30 seconds of growing up, just to avoid scenarios where something grew up while you were trying to accept the teleport - and got short-changed by this. I'd also like a notification that "One of the hatchlings teleported to you grew up immediately."). If a hatchling grows up from a teleport (of more than one item), it doesn't need to break the teleport as long as all offers get deleted once this happens. So, if one of your two hatchlings in a teleport grows up just after you went to sleep, you might still wake up to new offers.

 

Also, I think that use of the following BSAs on an egg/hatchling should be displayed with a tiny symbol:

• Ward (a small shield?) on eggs.
• Influence on hatchlings and Precognition on both eggs and hatchlings (male/female symbol, circle for unknown gender)
• Incubate on eggs (so you know knowing the gender might be an issue earlier than you thought - because the egg might grow up sooner than you anticipated.) Symbol could be a small flame.
• Stun on hatchlings - because you might want to know that it'll take them longer to grow up than you thought. The symbol could be a small yellow lightning bolt.

[JavaTigress]

20 hours ago, Suzumiya said:

I sort of like it and sort of don't. It would make things a lot smoother that's for sure, but then you would have the people who ask for hatchies only getting eggs that could possibly sit there for awhile, because they're either the only offer on the trade, and the person knows the other won't cancel (because it's something rare, like an ND, 2G prize, CB Gold, etc) or because the egg only has a few hours left. 

 

It would be quite annoying to get a ton of egg only offers on a trade where I ask for hatchies...just because they know they can leave the egg in the trade until it hatches.

 

But it would also be nice to keep the trades that don't specify which from cancelling automatically. I really do hate having to re-do my trades every time something hatches.

I mean, though...can't this happen, anyway? Getting egg offers when you ask for hatchies, I mean.

[Suzumiya]

34 minutes ago, JavaTigress said:

I mean, though...can't this happen, anyway? Getting egg offers when you ask for hatchies, I mean.

 

Sadly, it does. But if the trade didn't cancel when the eggs hatched, people would be more often offering eggs because they would know they can let the trade sit until the eggs hatch without worrying about coming back and finding the trade again. I think it can suck either way, but have a few benefits if there were restrictions. Like...an option to click that will ONLY let you take hatchies? Or you could choose hatchie or egg...maybe this should go under Trading Hub Feedback, actually.

 

[JavaTigress]

9 minutes ago, Suzumiya said:

 

Sadly, it does. But if the trade didn't cancel when the eggs hatched, people would be more often offering eggs because they would know they can let the trade sit until the eggs hatch without worrying about coming back and finding the trade again. I think it can suck either way, but have a few benefits if there were restrictions. Like...an option to click that will ONLY let you take hatchies? Or you could choose hatchie or egg...maybe this should go under Trading Hub Feedback, actually.

 

LIKE... when you set up the trade you can set it up so that it won't ALLOW someone to offer an egg?

 

Interesting idea.

[Suzumiya]

3 minutes ago, JavaTigress said:

LIKE... when you set up the trade you can set it up so that it won't ALLOW someone to offer an egg?

 

Interesting idea.

 

Yes. That would stop people from offering eggs on trades where we ask ONLY for hatchies. People seem to think that means "I can offer an egg anyway" no matter what you say. And you can't make too much conversation. I know you can mention only taking eggs, but saying "I am currently egg locked" seems a little risky to me. A little too much like a conversation. Just give us buttons. Eggs only. Hatchies only. Anything. Etc.

[JavaTigress]

2 minutes ago, Suzumiya said:

 

Yes. That would stop people from offering eggs on trades where we ask ONLY for hatchies. People seem to think that means "I can offer an egg anyway" no matter what you say. And you can't make too much conversation. I know you can mention only taking eggs, but saying "I am currently egg locked" seems a little risky to me. A little too much like a conversation. Just give us buttons. Eggs only. Hatchies only. Anything. Etc.

Actually, I wouldn't be opposed tot being allowed the option when the trade was set up.... and that is true even IF the original subject of this threa weren't implemented. THOUGH I can sort of see the merit of THAT also.

[olympe]

Actually, at least one of the mods agreed that saying "I'm egg-locked" is fine in the trading hub, because it tells everybody that you won't accept any eggs at all. Because you literally can't.

[Suzumiya]

Sadly, nothing stops people from STILL offering eggs. It'd definitely be nice to be able to prevent them from offering eggs on hatchie-only trades...still, it is good that I can say I'm egg locked.

[DragonLady86]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

As I pointed out before, hatchlings growing up don't need to break a teleport or an offer. If it happens on an offer, you can see what you get just before you hit "accept". (In such a case, I hope TJ would allow for transfer of a dragon within 30 seconds of growing up, just to avoid scenarios where something grew up while you were trying to accept the teleport - and got short-changed by this.

So, it wouldn't bother you if you offered on a trade, but one or more of the traders hatchlings grew up and they then accepted YOUR offer anyway?  That's why something dropping out of the trade (becoming an adult) should break the trade.  If you are the offer side you don't have control if you aren't around to see that something grew up while you were waiting.

[olympe]

@DragonLady86 That wouldn't happen in the scenario I proposed because all offers, including mine, would get auto-cancelled the moment one of the things in the teleport grows up. I'd have to offer again in order to get it accepted. But this leaves the teleport up for other people (or myself) to offer on again - although it might become less than it was before.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by olympe

[DragonLady86]

"hatchlings growing up don't need to break a teleport or an offer"

 

um? 

[olympe]

@DragonLady86 It all depends on the exact circumstances, which I elaborated on just after that initial statement. (Although I have to admit that my wording wasn't as precise as intended.)

3 hours ago, olympe said:

If it happens on an offer, you can see what you get just before you hit "accept". (In such a case, I hope TJ would allow for transfer of a dragon within 30 seconds of growing up, just to avoid scenarios where something grew up while you were trying to accept the teleport - and got short-changed by this. I'd also like a notification that "One of the hatchlings teleported to you grew up immediately."). If a hatchling grows up from a teleport (of more than one item), it doesn't need to break the teleport as long as all offers get deleted once this happens. So, if one of your two hatchlings in a teleport grows up just after you went to sleep, you might still wake up to new offers.

So, a teleport doesn't need to get broken as long as the offers on that teleport get cancelled automatically. And an offer doesn't need to be cancelled if one of the items in it grow up because you see what you get when you accept. (Plus the aforementioned grace period just in case.)

Edited September 15, 2018 by olympe