Black Truffles vs Golds as Rares

[Ruby Eyes]

Technically, the cave never states that you are seeing specific adults in the biomes, only their eggs. Those won't just disappear when time (or a human) passes.

(Would you really steal an egg whose parents you can SEE that moment?)

Edited September 13, 2018 by Ruby Eyes

[Fuzzbucket]

Good point. The adults are clearly very hard to find.

[JavaTigress]

49 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

I have to really, really agree with not taking descriptions in a literal way. It's just flavor text. Really. People have issues with this one just because of the 'rare' claim, but what about all the other descriptions that are completely not true in practice? Nebulas are 'nocturnal creatures', so they shouldn't be seen in the day right? Melismors are 'rarely seen at the surface', so why are they so abundant in the biomes? Many breed's descriptions mention something about mating seasons or specific mating times, and yet they are breedable year-round. There is no reason to take every word in the description literally. 

O.o Valid points.

And SOME of our dragons are described as being quite fierce and predatory ( H-Fires,for instance, or Depises) And likely wouldn't live nicely with other dragons.... yet they exist on our scrolls. I believe you are right about flavor text not being taken absolutely literally. ( THOUGH I admit when truffles first dropped I thought they might be a new rare) At said, I am waiting to see.... as long as golds have been around, truffles as a new breed would ahve to make a LOT of eggs to catch up with them. Just saying.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Quote

Gold dragons are the ones most often killed by humans, who consider their scales to be extremely valuable. These golden scales grant them a high level of protection, similar to armor, and they use this to their advantage in battle.

This is the gold dragon's description. Not much to go on since it's just two little sentences. So I'm guessing this is just 'flavour text' as well? If the text was longer and explain why these dragons are rarer to find (and I'm pretty sure there are still people who do bot these eggs because you can't stop them from doing it) I'd probably be satisfied.

 

"Gold dragons are one of the rarest breeds due to overhunting, often killed for their golden scales to make a high level of protection armor. In order to prevent themselves from dying out, they zealously guard their nests from human eyes to prevent to poachers from finding their offspring. These dragons can very rarely be found either snacking on nuts or observing humans from afar with disdain and mistrust."

 

i feel like this would flow better for the gold dragons than what we have and it keeps the original context of the original gold dragon description. But that's just my two thoughts so whether or not this is used doesn't really bother me anymore *shrug*

[Sazandora]

Meh, I think Golds are really overrated anyway. Their sprites are... okay but kinda uninteresting, they're only valuable because they're so insanely rare. I gave up on trying to save for a market Gold because the market has so many other things that tempt me more than a CB Gold ever could. I've played this game for 9 years and I think I've only ever seen one CB Gold drop. Honestly, I'm glad that Truffles are as common as they are.

[Aurora-Silver]

I see them every day, and don't think they are rare. Nor that they will ever turn into rare ones. Otherwise, they would have already disappeared, like Zyus did after their release.

[Fuzzbucket]

I say again - the creators get to write what they want the description to say. Are you going to go through all the descriptions to decide what you do and don't want them to say - lord there's loads I'd like to rewrite for many reasons - but it isn't down to me - they aren't my creations. End of.

[osmarks]

I think we should make flavor text at least somewhat consistent with the realities of DC.

[Fuzzbucket]

Who is "we" ? When you create a dragon you can write whatever text you like.

[osmarks]

Then it should be required to not contradict other information about it directly.

[Fuzzbucket]

Back with the "shoulds".  It really isn't up to you to say what the game should and shouldn't  do. Making suggestions is one thing, but there is no "should".

[osmarks]

... that is completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not this is a good idea or not, and also basically entirely opinion anyway.

Edited September 13, 2018 by osmarks

[Moonlight_Eevee]

2 minutes ago, osmarks said:

... that is completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not this is a good idea or not, and also basically entirely opinion anyway.

Exactly. There's a lot of things I want to see, if there's a lot of people wanting it then it goes from a want to a *should*. My *opinion* is that Dragon Lore should be reflected in the dragon. Why *should* the golds be rare if the only reason is hunting for its scales to make armour? It says nothing of the kind of where they're elusive or "rare"

[Ruby Eyes]

Help is not for opinions though. That's what Suggestions or Discussion would be for.

[osmarks]

Maybe the thread should be moved then?

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

18 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Then it should be required to not contradict other information about it directly.

 

I really agree with this. Yes, you can write whatever you want, but if a dragon is canonically pretty common and it’s written it as exceptionally rare, it’s pretty contradictory. Kinda like giving false information honestly.

 

I understand it’s up to the creator to write it however they want but I personally don’t think that writing it entirely differently to how it’s programmed is the best way to write descriptions. I remember in the thread when it dropped, when TJ’s grew up and we all read the descriptions some people were really excited and a little panicked that we’d have another perhaps Xeno/Zyu/Metallic rarity breed... But we didn’t get that.

 

And I’m pretty sure that if the adults were so rare, they wouldn’t leave their eggs around in super visible places where they’d be a common sight. That argument didn’t stick right with me.

 

 

Edit: I’d like to see this moved too so we can get a good discussion going

Edited September 13, 2018 by RealWilliamShakespeare

[Fuzzbucket]

This is a help thread though, not a suggestion one. (I see Ruby ninjaed me on that).

 

And no, even suggestions don't  go from a "want" to a "should". The furthest it goes is many people want this, please may we have it. We have no rights over TJ, and no right to tell him what to do..

Edited September 13, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[osmarks]

We can define "X should be implemented" as "X would improve the game". Both are subjective, though, so it doesn't help much.

[Fuzzbucket]

"Should" implies compulsion - that someone "ought" to do something. "Would improve the game" doesn't. I've no argument with that. (But I don't happen to mind about the description side of things here. It makes it more interesting.)

[purpledragonclaw]

Topic moved to Site Discussion since this is more about opinions on dragon descriptions. Carry on. 

[Moonlight_Eevee]

The best comparison I can think of for black truffles and the golds is comparing them to big cats. Black Truffles (for example, let's compare them to cougars), if one doesn't realise that they aren't common, you can easily mislead them as to being rare which isn't true until they research it. While they may not be easily seen in the wild, it doesn't change the fact that they are common, like black truffles. The description for them is misleading while the gold dragon lore is misleading. They could be anywhere from critically endangered (like Amur Leopards), endangered (red panda), or vulnerable (lions). While I realise Cave Born Golds will never actually go 'extinct' there was a couple years where they didn't drop at all and I know this takes place in a fantasy world, but what defines a rare if all your doing is hunting dragons for their scales and their not an 'elusive' breed or a 'rare' breed and there's nothing to back this up in the dragon's lore or the encyclopedia. (But seriously, what do I know about any of this?)

[Shadowdrake]

Sorry, I don't understand the opinion that misinformation is perfectly fine even when it directly contradicts player experience. Would you accept if the GoN had obvious flavor text that said there is ever only one in existence but we could summon multiple? The game isn't concerned with whether dragons show up or not, it's whether they exist at all. That's why we still have tombstones and frozen nocturnes and others despite them being nocturnal, and why the sun and moon can simultaneously exist at all hours according to egg descriptions.

 

Granted, I could believe that truffles were initially meant to be rare since they're in all biomes and the overwhelming population of owned dragons has skewed everything because the ratio system just doesn't work for the cave anymore (like literally any no-alt breed taking years to stop being ridiculously common breeders regardless of how rare they are as cbs). But that's a different issue.

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Shadowdrake said:

Sorry, I don't understand the opinion that misinformation is perfectly fine even when it directly contradicts player experience. Would you accept if the GoN had obvious flavor text that said there is ever only one in existence but we could summon multiple?

 

 

I wouldn't give a flying toss, actually. So I had better bow out here !

[Ruby Eyes]

I see dragon breed descriptions as a text written by one person about how *they* perceive that specific breed. Think Carl von Linné who went and observed and described what he saw as well as he could - but you can bet that even he made a few mistakes here and there. Imagine if he had been just unlucky about seeing a specific animal and thus described it as rare, while a farmer someplace else in the world is being plagued by the same animal in abundance.

 

Or spinach. Many people still believe it contains more iron than any other food, just because of an old decimal point typo.

 

The "real scientific information" is to be found in the Encyclopedia. Black Truffles don't have any yet. Maybe help write those factoids if the conceptor/spriter agrees with that?

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Players have a 100% chance of obtaining all three GoNs, a Zombie (even those are hard to get and should be higher), all six Zyus and the Sinomorph, a CB Silver, maybe even a neglected dragon, and maybe a prize before ever obtaining a CB Gold. Granted that people can catch them but it gets snatched up so stinking fast that players with bad internet connection or one who has never seen one before actually see one, they don't either recognise the description or by the split second they do actually click on it, it's gone. 

 

Yeah, it's nice a feeling to be gifted a CB Gold but it's something most people can't get unless the user is very generous about it (and trust me, I've asked for one once in the birthday thread and never got one) or if they have a CB Prize/lots of rares they could trade for one (again it depends on if someone is willing to part with one). But I'm not about to beat a dead horse over this 😕