Transgender dragons

[Fuzzbucket]

24 minutes ago, Pixxelation said:

The easiest way to do it is certainly what you mentioned, but then it comes across as misgendering the dragons which is a whole other can of worms.

 

As for holidays, I am opposed to single-gender holidays being able to have their gender changed. This goes for caveborn Mistletoes, which are exclusively female.

 

And a nasty one. If

 

 

Suddenly showed up as

 

 

 

I would NOT be pleased - and I bet others wouldn't be either.

[Primaltimediamond]

I'm also a member of the LGBT community 

but I don't think this should be a thing, much like FR the dragons are coded as in needing one to be a female and one to be a male in order to breed, this is just...biology. much like in real life, I'm biologically female and no matter what I can't produce a kid with another female. It is what it is. 

"But magic!" doesn't really work as an argument either, and yes I know dragons aren't real, but even magic needs to have some form of rule in the world that has been set up. And in the world of DC a male and female dragon need to mix their magic in order to breed. 

Plus in some cases the dimorphsm doesn';t really show beyond the male having a different pose from the female, some dragons have the same sprites for both male and females.  I'd not be against having a toggle to switch sprites (for the breeds it applies to anyways) on their scrolls so they can switch and have some visible form of representation present. Because I know how important that can be, but please do not claim dragon cave only favors "cis hetero pairings"that is just pretty rude. You never know what sort of stories someone has attached to a dragon! 

[olympe]

19 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

And a nasty one. If

 

 

Suddenly showed up as

 

 

 

I would NOT be pleased - and I bet others wouldn't be either.

This is exactly where the "no offspring on other people's scroll" comes into play. You can do that kind of thing to your own lineage, and breed the offspring of that lineage to spread it - but you cannot randomly affect other people's lineage like that without their prior knowledge.

 

Edited to clarfiy: You could have bred the 3rd gen Undine "Liar Liar Pants" and kept it (and all its half-siblings from the Hellfire's side and their complete progeny) on your scroll. Then change the Hellfire's gender, turning it blue. You probably wouldn't be able to breed "Burning Panties" again, as it's against biology (unless MAGIC), but you could still breed "Liar Liar Pants" and trade/gift/abandon their offspring. However, whoever picks up that offspring (like Flaming Liar), will be able to see the lineage as it is (with the blue transfemale Hellfire) and can then decide to either take the egg in or leave it.

Edited November 13, 2019 by olympe

[Pixxelation]

8 hours ago, olympe said:

This is exactly where the "no offspring on other people's scroll" comes into play. You can do that kind of thing to your own lineage, and breed the offspring of that lineage to spread it - but you cannot randomly affect other people's lineage like that without their prior knowledge.

 

Edited to clarfiy: You could have bred the 3rd gen Undine "Liar Liar Pants" and kept it (and all its half-siblings from the Hellfire's side and their complete progeny) on your scroll. Then change the Hellfire's gender, turning it blue. You probably wouldn't be able to breed "Burning Panties" again, as it's against biology (unless MAGIC), but you could still breed "Liar Liar Pants" and trade/gift/abandon their offspring. However, whoever picks up that offspring (like Flaming Liar), will be able to see the lineage as it is (with the blue transfemale Hellfire) and can then decide to either take the egg in or leave it.

I don't agree with doing restrictions because of "messing up others' lineages." Thanks to names, releasing, killing,  and zombification, the potential for someone to 'mess up' our lineages is a risk we engage with whenever we collect dragons that are descended from others' dragons. IMO, if there are restrictions, they should be based in existing gameplay––such as the mother/father designations potentially getting messy, etc.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Pixxelation

[TCA]

If I want to have a trans girl dragon I just put that in their description, tbh.

[TJ09]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:54 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

 

And a nasty one. If

 

 

Suddenly showed up as

 

 

 

I would NOT be pleased - and I bet others wouldn't be either.

This is what would happen by default if a dragon changed gender with no other considerations. It's possible for the lineage page to always show a "father" dragon as if it were male, etc, regardless of past or future gender changes and similarly always show the dragon on view pages as the "father," but I don't know if that's the right thing to do.

 

I'm not LGBT, but refusing to acknowledge the new identity seems like a bad idea—doing the same to a person is wildly disrespectful, and even though they're pixel dragons, I don't know that that's really an acceptable level of cognitive dissonance.

[Sundew]

i'm all for the idea of a single dragon breed with a BSA to change its sex or something, but i don't think a mechanic for all dragons is necessary or a good idea, considering lineages (fuzzbucket's right about people getting upset about sprite changes, and TJ's right that not acknowledging said changes is disrespectful (and defeats the purpose of the mechanic altogether)), and the general tone of DC -- putting an identity-related option on every Actions page doesn't feel like something that fits in. stuff like personality and identity and transition are all well suited to Names and Descriptions (and events, whenever they have stories).

Edited November 15, 2019 by Dew

[Fuzzbucket]

6 hours ago, TJ09 said:

This is what would happen by default if a dragon changed gender with no other considerations. It's possible for the lineage page to always show a "father" dragon as if it were male, etc, regardless of past or future gender changes and similarly always show the dragon on view pages as the "father," but I don't know if that's the right thing to do.

 

I'm not LGBT, but refusing to acknowledge the new identity seems like a bad idea—doing the same to a person is wildly disrespectful, and even though they're pixel dragons, I don't know that that's really an acceptable level of cognitive dissonance.

 

Thanks, TJ - my trans relative would agree with you.And also does not think that the ability to switch gender on an adult is a good idea for the game. Now an option to switch a HATCHIE.... But when you get right down to it - then what is the point of this ? Then the dragon would appear to be its new gender - so - as I say, what's the point ? no-one but its owner would be aware of any of this. The ONLY thing that would affect anything would be the switch in a lineage - which would not be fair to those who had built a line. @Pixxelation - Sure it's annoying when someone kills something back in a line - but why make even more damage possible ? I am entirely supportive of the LGBTQI+ community - not least of my relative - but  if a trans person is acknowledged as being of their new gender, they don't have to deny everything in their past. There is no way I can ever remember my relative as being a boy when he was three, with hair past his bottom, and changing his adult sprite, if he were a dragon, would not make his childhood morph into that of a crew-cut boy.

 

Also this:

 

On 11/13/2019 at 1:51 PM, Primaltimediamond said:

I'm also a member of the LGBT community 

but I don't think this should be a thing, much like FR the dragons are coded as in needing one to be a female and one to be a male in order to breed, this is just...biology. much like in real life, I'm biologically female and no matter what I can't produce a kid with another female. It is what it is. 

"But magic!" doesn't really work as an argument either, and yes I know dragons aren't real, but even magic needs to have some form of rule in the world that has been set up. And in the world of DC a male and female dragon need to mix their magic in order to breed. 

 

Thank you, @Primaltimediamond That's it in a nutshell, too.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[UnicornMaiden]

As far as I can see, the description feature allows you to give your dragon any identity or orientation that you want. In a dragon's description you could write, " [Name] is very happy with his boyfriend, and they love taking care of the abandoned hatchling they adopted." Or you could say, "[Name] has never wanted to mate with any other dragon because she is asexual." You could take a dragon which gendered male and has a male sprite and just say, "[Name] was thought to be female when he hatched, but after understanding his identity he used magic to transition." Just because the sprite never actually changed doesn't mean you can't say it did as part of the dragon's story.

[Fuzzbucket]

This, exactly. As Primaltimediamond said - it will never be an ACTUAL BIOLOGICAL change, however much surgery etc were involved. GENDER,. not SEX.